PS3 cracked again, more firmware updates likely coming

From what I gather Sony cannot feasibly change the current private cryptography key. Interesting, even if 95% of the video went over my head in terms of technical terminology and application.
 
Does this mean that a title like GT5 was delayed... just for something that was cracked less than six weeks later anyway?
 
Tolyngee said:
Does this mean that a title like GT5 was delayed... just for something that was cracked less than six weeks later anyway?
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I think Sony cramming 3D TV down Polyphony Digital throats delayed (and diminished) the game more then any firmware fix.
 
Firmware updates aren't going to fix that. I don't see a way they can really sidestep this at this point. The entire thing has been broken wide open. This isn't like the jailbreak/usb exploit; it's on an entirely new level. Using a new key would break any existing software.

I only skimmed the information posted on another site. I don't deal with software at that low of a level, nor advanced encryption techniques, but if what I read is true I don't see much Sony can do.
 
Yeah it's pretty much what they did with the Wii about a month into its launch. All Sony can do at this point is add some workarounds for detecting the way the game is launched or modchips, but that is quickly fixed by the hackers.
 
wow... this basically leaves zero security to stop people from making and executing their own programs on the ps3 and every single ps3 out there is now exploitable.

This will mean a big boost for ps3 hardware sales but piracy - which we all know will eventually come despite the hack not being intended for piracy - will absolutely destroy software sales which might mean a lot of exclusives going Microsoft's way.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/12/the-ps3-may-have-just-had-its-front-door-kicked-in/

Looks like more and more sites are starting to pick it up now.

Someone's head is seriously going to roll for this... though i do look forward to ungimped linux on the ps3 and even possibly ps3 media center! :D
 
Fire2YK said:
Someone's head is seriously going to roll for this...
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Well, it did take four years for someone to finally figure it out. Although I'm sure Sony was planning for the PS3 to be on the market for more than four years, but four years is not four days, four weeks, or even four months.

But an unfixable crack that's discovered within weeks of a (if not the) PS3 exclusive? I would think that's cause for more butthurt.

Especially if someone could argue that not delaying the release would have resulted in more sales, since the delay caused the release of GT5 to get even closer to the eventual complete crack of the PS3.

I wasn't going to get a PS3 'til GT5 was out, and then it finally, finally arrived and it wasn't even a reason to consider getting a PS3 anyway. All in all, not a good year for Sony.
 
Fire2YK said:
will absolutely destroy software sales which might mean a lot of exclusives going Microsoft's way.
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I agree hardware sales might go up, but I can't see MS gaining more exclusives over Sony. The 360 has been cracked for years now and there hasn't been more companies focusing in on Sony over MS or whatever. I doubt anything will change as far as exclusives will go.
 
ebs5049 said:
I agree hardware sales might go up, but I can't see MS gaining more exclusives over Sony. The 360 has been cracked for years now and there hasn't been more companies focusing in on Sony over MS or whatever. I doubt anything will change as far as exclusives will go.
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Devs abandon platforms that get blown wide open by pirates. When the 360 was cracked it still required more effort than a lot of people were willing to put in since people hate opening consoles. See the Sony PSP for an example of developer abandonment (a platform that many devs still won't touch due to piracy issues). Also there is some speculation that rampant Wii piracy is killing 3rd party game sales

If this crack leads to downloadable games that can be burned to Blu Ray blanks and then run on any PS3, Sony will have a huge problem.
 
ocellaris said:
If this crack leads to downloadable games that can be burned to Blu Ray blanks and then run on any PS3, Sony will have a huge problem.
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You don't even need to burn them, just toss them onto an external hdd. They've already done this, just with a usb key, certain firmware, and some games don't work because of firmware issues. With a loader that can be signed to look like sony it would be extremely simple to pirate with absolutely no need for blu-ray's.

I personally find the other uses far more interesting but we all know how this story goes.
 
Fire2YK said:
... though i do look forward to ungimped linux on the ps3 and even possibly ps3 media center! :D
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Ah, the media center would be nice. It's wireless and already attached to my TV via HDMI.

This saddens me for what it will lead to, though.
 
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Fire2YK said:
wow... this basically leaves zero security to stop people from making and executing their own programs on the ps3 and every single ps3 out there is now exploitable.

This will mean a big boost for ps3 hardware sales but piracy - which we all know will eventually come despite the hack not being intended for piracy - will absolutely destroy software sales which might mean a lot of exclusives going Microsoft's way.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/12/the-ps3-may-have-just-had-its-front-door-kicked-in/

Looks like more and more sites are starting to pick it up now.

Someone's head is seriously going to roll for this... though i do look forward to ungimped linux on the ps3 and even possibly ps3 media center! :D
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WTF are you smoking? I have seen people with HUNDREDS of games all pirated on their 360, so instead of making a game for PS3 because of this they will make it for a console who has a way more rampant pirating scene.

Nice logic there.
 
Multiplayer is going to be the future for games. These single player interactive movies will probably start to move to handhelds.

Sony will come up with a way to detect the console when connected to PSN I would think. Then they can Ban it.
 
Banning it over the long term is likely to be difficult given that with this level of access you can pretty much change every single detail of the system / what's sent to Sony... but it's going to be a long term battle and I'm sure we're going to get a million different firmwares over the next year. =/
 
ocellaris said:
Also there is some speculation that rampant Wii piracy is killing 3rd party game sales
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Right, it's always piracy. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that most 3rd party Wii games are either complete garbage or designed for the wrong market.
 
ocellaris said:
Devs abandon platforms that get blown wide open by pirates. When the 360 was cracked it still required more effort than a lot of people were willing to put in since people hate opening consoles. See the Sony PSP for an example of developer abandonment (a platform that many devs still won't touch due to piracy issues). Also there is some speculation that rampant Wii piracy is killing 3rd party game sales

If this crack leads to downloadable games that can be burned to Blu Ray blanks and then run on any PS3, Sony will have a huge problem.
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The Nintendo DS is "blown wide open by pirates" via the use of flash carts and they keep cranking out games for that day by day.

Piracy probably isn't killing 3rd party Wii sales as much as Family Game Night 42 and Mr. Potato Head Adventure 37 is.

Yes piracy is a problem, but until a soccer mom can go to Walmart and buy a plug and play device cheaply and feel safe using it, it's not going to kill a system.
 
Fire2YK said:
This will mean a big boost for ps3 hardware sales but piracy - which we all know will eventually come despite the hack not being intended for piracy - will absolutely destroy software sales which might mean a lot of exclusives going Microsoft's way.
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I doubt that. The Wii had to deal with piracy from a very early point and it is still around and sales are strong.

Sony may need to shift some of it's business model to add value for genuine customers via online services but that's been a long time coming anyway.

Downloading PS3 titles isn't going to be for everyone since there's still substantial risk involved plus the data volume makes them unwieldy. What I see is people renting games and copying them, or buying them, copying them, and then selling them (which comes at zero loss to Sony since that's what's happening with used games anyway).

The sky isn't falling, devs who make good titles will still get paid and shitty titles will still sell poorly either which way. The effect of piracy on the bottom line is totally overblown because it is to the advantage of the publishers to do so and no tangible data exists how many pirated and now many of those would or wouldn't have bought the game.

This whole thing is business as usual albeit about 4 years late.
 
next-Jin said:
WTF are you smoking? I have seen people with HUNDREDS of games all pirated on their 360, so instead of making a game for PS3 because of this they will make it for a console who has a way more rampant pirating scene.

Nice logic there.
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Does this hack allow PS3s to still play on PSN? Does an modded Xbox360 still play on XBL?
 
SPARTAN VI said:
Does this hack allow PS3s to still play on PSN? Does an modded Xbox360 still play on XBL?
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From what I understand this does not allow pirating of games, instead it allows openOS on any firmware. I believe someone still has to do something else in order to allow open piracy but this will eventually lead to that.

I'd also like to add that these guys are pretty adamant about saying they only did this for open OS support. It's complete BS and the only reason to do this is piracy.
 
next-Jin said:
From what I understand this does not allow pirating of games, instead it allows openOS on any firmware. I believe someone still has to do something else in order to allow open piracy but this will eventually lead to that.

I'd also like to add that these guys are pretty adamant about saying they only did this for open OS support. It's complete BS and the only reason to do this is piracy.
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you dont know much about Marcan then. He could make alot of money for himself if enabling piracy was the main goal. the people who you are thinking of are the original ps3jailbreak team that were charging 170$ for their usb dongle before it was cloned.
 
next-Jin said:
From what I understand this does not allow pirating of games, instead it allows openOS on any firmware. I believe someone still has to do something else in order to allow open piracy but this will eventually lead to that.

I'd also like to add that these guys are pretty adamant about saying they only did this for open OS support. It's complete BS and the only reason to do this is piracy.
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Plenty of us like to run homebrew, emulators and such. Not just for pirating games.

These hacker geeks are even more hard core about it. I hate how people just assume "it's all about piracy". You're wrong. The reason these guys did it is so they could run linux and whatever programs they wanted on it. They're pretty clear about that. They're not doing any of the work needed to pirate games (heck, that's been done anyway with the usb dongle).

A modded PS3 would make a perfect HTPC.
 
A lot of people are comparing this to the 360 jtag exploit but you have to keep in mind that the jtag flaw was easily patched by ms and you cannot jtag an xbox 360 slim or any xbox console manafactured after june 2009, all you can do is mod the dvd rom drive so that it plays burnt games.

You cannot execute custom code on an xbox 360 slim or any xbox 360 manafactured after june 2009.

You can and will be able to execute custom code on any ps3 or ps3 slim no matter what firmware version they have.

Sony cant revoke or replace the leaked key or all the games that have been released up until now will not work on your console.

If they had just left otherOS alone none of this would have happened...
 
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GreenMonkey said:
Plenty of us like to run homebrew, emulators and such. Not just for pirating games.

A modded PS3 would make a perfect HTPC.
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A cheap PC would be superior in every way to that PS3 for both homebrew and a HTPC. Only thing your missing from the complete experience is the cablecard which the PS3 can't use anyway.

What do you consider homebrew? I consider it user created POS games that no one ever plays, most everyone else considers it emulation of pirated software.
 
next-Jin said:
A cheap PC would be superior in every way to that PS3 for both homebrew and a HTPC. Only thing your missing from the complete experience is the cablecard which the PS3 can't use anyway.

What do you consider homebrew? I consider it user created POS games that no one ever plays, most everyone else considers it emulation of pirated software.
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A cheap PC requires me to:

spending a few hundred extra dollars
installing and maintaining an OS (windows, XBMC, or something else)
find a good HTPC or arcade front-end (unless using XBMC or something)
find room in the crowded A/V rack full of consoles/tivo/HD-DVD etc...
figuring out what to do when I'm already maxed on HDMI switching - my current 2-port HDMI receiver already with has a 3-port switch attached and is getting finicky...
Plus it's another device sucking power.
I have to find good controllers for it.
I have to buy an IR device of some sort and add yet another device to the Harmony and tweak it..

I'm not even getting into the time it takes to get a solid XBMC or front-end working good enough that the wife or babysitter can use it.

All of this stuff takes yet more time, and money, and maintenance. Or, I can just hack a device that is perfect for this, and use that, and thanks to its uniformity of design, spend a lot less time tweaking.

As far as homebrew, personally I do mostly emulation, But there's some fun homebrew games and apps out there also. On the Wii, there's streaming radio apps and the like.
 
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next-Jin said:
A cheap PC would be superior in every way to that PS3 for both homebrew and a HTPC. Only thing your missing from the complete experience is the cablecard which the PS3 can't use anyway.

What do you consider homebrew? I consider it user created POS games that no one ever plays, most everyone else considers it emulation of pirated software.
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then by all means use a cheap pc over a ps3 for homebrew and htpc. While youre at it feel more than free to not play or use any homebrew apps or games. Nobody here is going to stop you from not using a PS3 for these things just as your lame arguments and assumptions wont stop others from using them for those purposes. :rolleyes:
 
next-Jin said:
What do you consider homebrew?
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How about, for starters, the enabling of features/capability my console apparently doesn't have according to the manufacturer?

If you actually watch their videos they make it pretty clear; The PS3's security lasted 4 years because for 3 of those years it actually allowed people like these guys to run linux and do all the things they wanted to. Sony removed OtherOS, 12 months later they had it hacked.
 
I knew this would get people all pissy.

The bottom line here is that almost everyone who modifies their system will have some form of piracy related to it. I have never seen a Wii with homebrew used for anything other than piracy with "apps" tacked on, same can be said for basically anything related to "homebrew".

My opinion is not going to sway anyone or change anything, but it's pretty obvious what peoples intentions are. The only argument I can go with might be the HTPC use but you can easily stream anything using ps3mediaserver as it is.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that if it was possible and I was Sony I would brick every single system that has been modified with daily checks through PSN.
 
next-Jin said:
I knew this would get people all pissy.

The bottom line here is that almost everyone who modifies their system will have some form of piracy related to it. I have never seen a Wii with homebrew used for anything other than piracy with "apps" tacked on, same can be said for basically anything related to "homebrew".

My opinion is not going to sway anyone or change anything, but it's pretty obvious what peoples intentions are. The only argument I can go with might be the HTPC use but you can easily stream anything using ps3mediaserver as it is.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that if it was possible and I was Sony I would brick every single system that has been modified with daily checks through PSN.
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If you think playing emulated commodore 64 or NES games is piracy (which it is, a tiny bit, but I don't think that's what you meant), then I guess you're right for me. :rolleyes:

I don't use modded consoles to pirate console games. I want to do the same kinds of things I use a PC for because it is MY PROPERTY.

I have a launch day Wii, and you know how many pirated Wii or GC games I've played on it? Zero. That's right, zero.

Apparently you think Sony should have the right to reach out over the internet and destroy your property because you're not using it how they intended. Would it be OK for ATI to do that to kill your overclocked video card? Or Microsoft for you playing mkv files on it? Or Intel to kill your computer for overclocking your CPU?

Like the geeks in the video say, if they had just allowed Linux dual-booting with some decent GPU access, they wouldn't have a totally compromised console now.
 
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GreenMonkey said:
If you think playing emulated commodore 64 or NES games is piracy, then I guess you're right for me. :rolleyes:

I don't use modded consoles to pirate games. I want to do the same kinds of things I use a PC for because it is MY PROPERTY.

I have a Launch day Wii, and you know how many pirated Wii or GC games I've played on it? Zero. That's right, zero.

Apparently you think Sony should have the right to reach out over the internet and destroy your property because you're not using it how they intended. Would it be OK for ATI to do that to kill your overclocked video card? Or Microsoft for you playing mkv files on it? Or Intel to kill your computer for overclocking your CPU?
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This goes back to the "What do you classify Hombrew as" Would emulating N64 games be classified as piracy if you do not have the originals? What about the Gamecube?

Sony absolutely has the right because per my original statement you accessed "THEIR" property with "YOUR" modified property. Microsoft does this all the time and people complain, nothing will change with Sony's camp. It's a different business. Microsoft and Sony make their money off of software sales. Intel, ATI etc doesnt care if you destroy your new property. Sony has a right to protect their business which revolves around software sales. OtherOS was removed because of people trying to hack the console which could have lead to piracy. Of course they removed it.
 
next-Jin said:
I'd also like to add that if it was possible and I was Sony I would brick every single system that has been modified with daily checks through PSN.
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Sony would be sued in a heart beat if they did that...

MS just stops you from accesing live and cripples media center functionality if you are detected as using hacks. They dont turn your 360 into a nice expensive paperweight through as you can still play games etc.

MS did at one stage cripple your hdd and corrupt the gamer profile on your 360 which stopped you from transferring savegames - until they got sued for it, then that functionality was returned in the next dashboard update.

So you can imagine what would happen if Sony decided to brick your console because they THOUGHT you were running hacks.

I would sue the crap out of them.
 
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And if you watch the vid, they do a good presentation on why people hack these things, and it's not for piracy. The whole impetus for this hack was the removal of linux support when the PS3 slim came out.
 
Andrew_Carr said:
And if you watch the vid, they do a good presentation on why people hack these things, and it's not for piracy. The whole impetus for this hack was the removal of linux support when the PS3 slim came out.
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I've got some nice beachfront property to sell you... in Kansas.
 
well at it is going to do is make things harder for us that don't modify the system.
 
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