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Protesters Block, Vomit On Yahoo Bus In Oakland
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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Your examples are clear illegalities and you didn't stipulate that, besides I could put those in my lease enforcing it would be another matter entirely. Sorta of like EULAs.However, of course I can't do what is expressly forbidden by law nor would I attempt to but I can state no pets allowed, no maintenance allowed without my approval, etc...I have control over my properties with very few exceptions. I can charge 10k a month if I want, but no one would bother with that, there is no law stipulating I can only charge a certain amount to my knowledge.
I stated that the terms of your lease are governed by written laws and not simply, "the 'law' of supply and demand." Examples that are "clear illegalities" that you can't write into your leasing terms are examples of what I'm pointing out: that laws govern tenant-landlord relationships. You do not have a laissez-faire relationship with your tenants. Simply because you hold a deed to a home does not diminish the rights of the person actually residing in the home.
You have the relationship backwards: you have limited control over your properties in regards to tenant-landlord rights and responsibilities. One example of yours, by the way, is flat out incorrect and likely flat-out illegal and unenforceable depending on the state your rental is in: tenants have a right to, and landlords have an obligation, to maintain habitability. You can not limit a tenant's right to maintain that habitability, except I believe in Arkansas. In California, where my properties exist, tenants can and do pay out of pocket for maintenance/repairs and deduct them from their rent.
Perhaps you can charge whatever you want in your local area but throughout California we have nearly two dozen municipalities with rent-control laws in place and you can *not* charge whatever you want. Those laws exist elsewhere, as well, not just in my state.
rudy
[H]F Junkie
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lol in CA you guys are pretty much the extreme example of liberal invasive government so it goes with saying it would not be wise to assume that all of those rules would extend to everywhere else there are many many laws in CA that simply are not found in the rest of the country. For instance just searching a bit I find that most legal advice is about when and how much notice a land lord must give about a price increase but nothing indicates the land lord has any restrictions on how much they can charge.
Excuse me? Where did I give an example of not maintaining habitability? When I said my competitors patch work their places together? That isn't illegal nor is it refusal to maintain habitability. I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Your either incorrect on many of your premises or ignorant as to what the laws state. As seen below. Having lived in California for a vast majority of my life and starting out as a landlord in California I know what the laws are...
You are mistaken on the California law. A tenant can make repairs and pay for out of pocket expenses for their rentals and deduct it from their rent only when a landlord has refused to repair something that threatens habitability. I went through that in Fresno about 10 years ago when I was in college where a landlord refused to fix a bathroom ceiling that collapsed because he said I was at fault for not reporting it, even though I was on vacation when it likely occurred. I fixed it and deducted it from my rent. When they tried to collect they lost.
When this happens you must first allow the landlord a reasonable attempt to make repairs. If the repairs are not up to code, shoddy, or further threaten habitability the tenant then should do basic CYA. Document your attempts to make things right, keep all receipts from work rendered, involve the city building inspector if need be, then notarize a copy of the letter to your landlord stating why you're deducting rent and even still prepare for a fight.
Not even going to get into rent control laws because they aren't about protecting the renter in California as you seem to think they do.
A landlord can charge whatever he wants for rent in the vast majority of cases. However, the natural market would dictate what is a normal going rate. For example, I charge on average $450 for a one room studio. I paid that much for my studio back in California 20 years ago. The going rate for a 1 room studio in Boulder is $900 a month, figuring about 700 sq feet. if I tried to price one of my studios at $900 a month not a single person in my town would even consider it. So I'm not going to price it that much. I could probably get a renter if I priced it at $500 a month because each of my places look brand new and are brought up to date generally every 3 years and each place has security lighting, broadband access, etc...plus utilities in several cases.
My rentals generally sell themselves and while I'm slightly higher than the going rate most parents and kids generally offer more than I'm asking to get into one, but it is first come first serve. To me this is how the market should operate. I offer a quality product at a fair price and adjust prices as need be. No intentional gouging, I follow through on any verbal promises, and document all repairs and bills and offer quick refunds when necessary. Most parents will send their younger kids to my wife and I first before looking elsewhere and I think that is just due to being fair, honest, and taking pride in our properties.
I find it slightly amusing that you accuse me of arguing for the sake of arguing when every time you dispute my points you then go on to completely support the point I was making!
I wrote in the post you are responding to that you can't limit a renter's ability to maintain habitability in your lease terms. You are refuting that by posting a link substantiating everything I wrote and then telling a story detailing exactly what I said renters have the right to do despite whatever terms you place in your lease prohibiting self-repairs?
Once again, just like my examples of laws limiting your ability to put whatever you want into your lease, the law governs what renters can and can not do in terms of repairs to the properties they are renting (and that link you provided is a long list of things renters can do and nothing in there about what landlords can prohibit them from doing--something I also stated fairly clearly and accurately according to your own source). The law prevails over any provisions you place into your lease.
Again, the argument I made that you are trying to disprove is that local laws govern renter-tenant relationships and not the "'law' of supply and demand"
finally, rest assured I am not ignore of California law nor am I mistaken of how it operates.
I have properties and you have properties so we're even on that score. but I also have a doctorate in law so that might give me a little bit more insight than a mere property owner. make of it what you will but I suggest you re-read your posts and revisit your position because you aren't doing a particularly impressive job of supporting it.
I wrote in the post you are responding to that you can't limit a renter's ability to maintain habitability in your lease terms. You are refuting that by posting a link substantiating everything I wrote and then telling a story detailing exactly what I said renters have the right to do despite whatever terms you place in your lease prohibiting self-repairs?
Once again, just like my examples of laws limiting your ability to put whatever you want into your lease, the law governs what renters can and can not do in terms of repairs to the properties they are renting (and that link you provided is a long list of things renters can do and nothing in there about what landlords can prohibit them from doing--something I also stated fairly clearly and accurately according to your own source). The law prevails over any provisions you place into your lease.
Again, the argument I made that you are trying to disprove is that local laws govern renter-tenant relationships and not the "'law' of supply and demand"
finally, rest assured I am not ignore of California law nor am I mistaken of how it operates.
I have properties and you have properties so we're even on that score. but I also have a doctorate in law so that might give me a little bit more insight than a mere property owner. make of it what you will but I suggest you re-read your posts and revisit your position because you aren't doing a particularly impressive job of supporting it.
"Rent Control is a San Francisco law that was passed in San Francisco in June 1979. It is similar to laws passed in many locations throughout the country in the 70s to protect renters from unaffordable rent increases and to provide just cause eviction protections."
-- http://www.hrcsf.org/rent_board.html [emphasis mine]
The point you failed in making is stating that landlords are subservient to renters. You used two points, i.e. rent control and the renters right to hold back rent. Both points you fail to understand or use correctly.
Rent control laws in California are vague and obtuse and are generally not about rent caps but about increasing rent while renting. See here and search for rent control laws for what rent control laws really are and do. Mostly they support the landlord. We dealt with adding rent control laws in Clovis but they were quickly struct down. Basically in a nutshell, rent control laws are not about stating what a landlord can charge but keeps a landlord from saying your rent is $1k a month then 3 months in stating your rent is now $2k a month. It isn't stopping me from renting my place out for 5k a month and you agreeing and signing the lease then complaining that rent is 5x higher than your neighbors rent.
In regards to withholding rent you stated that
which is 100% false. You can not withhold rent unless your landlord has demonstrated a failure to maintain a safe and habitable dwelling and you are forced to make the repairs to make said dwelling safe.
You are wrong on both points which is why I pointed out your misunderstanding of renter laws.
I still am failing to understand where you are going here. No where do I ever say a landlord doesn't have to maintain habitability. Again your just throwing in random stuff to argue, so cool. Keep at it.
Local laws govern the legalese of the contract, not the relationship. The law of supply and demand determines price which is what I originally stated but you seem to disagree with. Not sure why, but again cool. Knock yourself out if you believe that supply and demand doesn't determine housing prices. Ignorance is bliss.
If you say so Esquire. Considering your poor representation of the very basic of California rental laws I am highly dubious of your doctorate in law. Perhaps you do but it sure as hell isn't in renter's rights.
Let me point out that if you have an agreement in place for this with your renters than that is on you, not common law. So ya, you may allow your renters to do this but the liability will fall on you for any work not done with a permit or not correctly done and results in property or personal damage.
I will not allow any of my renters to modify or make repairs without my consent and then it has to be done by a qualified contractor.
Right, that has zero to do with me charging whatever I want for a place. I just can't increase the rent unduly after agreeing to a lease. Perhaps you could use that doctorate in law to understand the information you posted.
[/quote]There are several petitions that tenants can file with the Rent Board, including:
DECREASE IN SERVICES
If you received a service (garage space, laundry, etc.) when you moved in and it's suddenly taken away, you can file for a reduction in rent to compensate you for the loss of that service. If you get a rent increase and don't think it's fair because needed repairs haven't been done, you can file within 60 days to ask the Rent Board to deny the landlord the right to that increase.
WRONGFUL EVICTION
If you receive an eviction notice that is not based on just cause or is not delivered or written up properly, then you can file this petition.
UTILITY PASSTHROUGH
If a landlord suddenly wants you to pay for PG&E or water and you never paid for it before or s/he wants to increase your share, this might be the petition for you.
ILLEGAL RENT INCREASE
For a rent increase above the allowable percentage, you will want to file this. The Rent Board can also check your rent and make sure it's the right amount based on your initial rent and the allowable increases during your tenancy. Useful for determining if banked increases are correct.[/quote]
The final authority over this question as to whether or not a renter has the right to perform repairs of the premises is due to legislation...not your lease provisions and not the "law" of supply and demand.
You can write whatever you want into a lease, and renters may even sign it, but the arbiter of a dispute is a judge in a court of law according to local, state, and federal laws.
I haven't failed to demonstrate that nor have I misrepresented it. My statement to kbrickley was that the "law" of supply and demand is not the final authority over his landlord. That has been the prevailing theme in this thread--that property owners can and should be able to do whatever they want to do with their properties.
You, above most anyone else in this thread, should know that the relationship between tenant-property owner is not so simple. It's a complicated maze of local, state, and federal regulations.
You first argued with me saying that laws don't govern the relationship but rather zoning regulations do. Zoning regulations are laws so that claim is a strange rebuttal to my point.
You then said that you can write whatever you want into a lease provision as long as it's not illegal. That position is my entire point--that the relationship governed by laws and not a simple laissez-faire relationship--so again seems a strange rebuttal to my point.
Now you're going back and forth on whether renters can make self-repairs. You're the one who posted that you wrote that into your lease. I simply pointed out that depending on where you live and the circumstances of the situation such a provision precluding a renter from conducing repairs of the premises might not hold up in court.
You've done nothing to refute that. Instead you have posted a link that substantiates my claim, posted a story of you doing exactly what you prohibit others from doing in your lease, and then moving along to an objectively false and nonsensical position that rent control laws are really to protect the property owners.
I posted how it works back in post #49.
If you persist in attacking my credentials simply because you can't make a logically coherent argument on your own merits I'm going to have to disengage from the discussion with you.
There really isn't much else to say. You made your point and I mine. You do not understand so we're at an impasse.
However, in regards to Rent Control laws, see here, specifically
Try and understand how rent control laws work, understand how much it saves a land lord in property taxes, understand how much of that a landlord reinvests into new units, and then you will understand how hard rent control laws have failed and why they aren't universal.
Dr. Righteous
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As if the anti-tech bus protesters weren't weird enough as it is, they go and pull a stunt like this. Yuck!
Was it this guy??
No one gives a fuck about your credentials. Your argumentation here sucks. Do you even practice?
I never understood people who believe they have a right to live anywhere they do not own. What do they not understand about not owning something. the funny part is that all these extremely restrictive policies actually increase the rents of places in SF/bay area since then there is lots of people fighting over the small amount of apartments actually available.
I am waiting for these large companies like Yahoo, Genentech, Google, etc. get fed up and just move to a place where they will be accepted with open arms. There are countless of cities across this great nation that would love to have them.
I find it funny that so many people mentioned Texas in the first couple of pages since I actually recently moved from the bay area to Houston. I have not regretted it yet. It is different from California but I did not move here expecting the same thing and I am open to accepting all the difference. The pay increase I received, lower cost of living, and increased opportunities was also a nice touch
This is an extremely large country with lots to offer and its not limited to an area that only stretches to 50 miles from the west coast of California.
I am waiting for these large companies like Yahoo, Genentech, Google, etc. get fed up and just move to a place where they will be accepted with open arms. There are countless of cities across this great nation that would love to have them.
I find it funny that so many people mentioned Texas in the first couple of pages since I actually recently moved from the bay area to Houston. I have not regretted it yet. It is different from California but I did not move here expecting the same thing and I am open to accepting all the difference. The pay increase I received, lower cost of living, and increased opportunities was also a nice touch
This is an extremely large country with lots to offer and its not limited to an area that only stretches to 50 miles from the west coast of California.
ummmm you know that there are lots of places just like that in California........ Just leave the cities and go for a drive and you'll end up going through areas where you wont be able to tell whether you are in TX or CA.
Outamyhead
Supreme [H]ardness
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A cousin of mine when she was 1-5 learned that if she wanted to grab mum's attention, she would jam a finger down her throat and projectile puke, seems like the same thing going on here "Look at me, look at me, I'm important....BLEURRRGGGHH!!!!".