Project:"SUPER!" NES retro gaming build - practice run

Vaulter98c

Vaulter98c

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - October 2009
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
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OK, so since the other guy has not finished (or even log'd in lol) in a long while I'm going to do my own NES case mod, but while trying to cram in a respectable amount of power too.

I've seen too many Atom or lower builds done in an NES case, all the IGP's suck on those, and the CPU's are cut down laptop versions to boot. Also, most documented NES case projects were from a time when CD/DVD drives were needed. Now, not so much.

Anyways, the goal here is to put a fast Sandy Bridge CPU with an actual GPU, 8GB RAM and a .5 TB HDD into a NES case. Hopefully if I can do it the plan is to have an emulator build capable of running everything PS2 and down, altho mainly the classic retro systems are the priority here, PS1/PS2 isnt needed due to my PS3 and PS2 is really just a target to shoot for. It would be nice to also have a small gaming rig I can move around the house incase I wanna lan or take it with me.

Problem is, to the best of my knowledge, nothing like this has been tried, GPU's werent small enough and those that were werent usefull in a mod like such. Now, we have powerful low-pro cards than can accelerate gaming, media, and emulation. So, as you will see in the pics, this is the dry/practice run. This case will be getting sacrificed to find the best way to make this work (if I even can lol) before I do the actual one I'll keep. That being said, at some times the project may look like a bad hack and slash job, that's ok, I'm trying things out lol. O yea, and I'm no pro, this is my first try at ANYTHING near this level lol, so go easy on me lol

So first up, parts list. Here's what I have. Not everything is actually in hand yet, but everything listed here is ordered and on its way.

PARTS

NES Case - just a normal NES case, not cleaning it up since this is my practice run before I do the final mod

i3 2125 Dual Core (4 Thread) 3.3 Ghz

Corsair 8 GB 1333mhz PC3-10666 240-pin Dual Channel DDR3 Memory Kit

GIGABYTE GA-H67N-USB3-B3 LGA 1155 Intel H67 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard

HIS Radeon HD 6670 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 Low Profile Ready Video Card (this thing is beautiful lol)

Western Digital Scorpio Black 500GB 7200 RPM/16MB 2.5" SATA II Notebook Hard Drive

Mini ITX Power Supply Kit PcioPSU 150-XT + 144W AC to DC Switching Power Supply

3 Pin Female to 2 x 3 Pin Male Connectors Fan (3x of them)

Scythe 40x40x10mm Fan 2 pin with 3 pin adapter. (4x of them)

Coolerguys 80x80x15mm 12v Fan 3 pin

2x PCI Express flex connectors, diff vendors so I can hopefully get one good one between them lol

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This project page will be getting worked up and fancied up over the next few days, but I wanted to get this up here online first

Also, I'll be going out of state for some more Army missions in 3 days, be gone for 3+ weeks, so there will be a big lull period, but I want this online so people can weigh in with options / ideas / suggestions for ways to not only make the final project better but to make everything fit in the same damn box lol
 
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Pics (as of 5-22-2012)

Just the NES as it was when I bought it. Doesnt work, all dirty, great for a practice box lol


Few pics of it opened up and then emptied out. it's cool because almost all the screws are the same size lol, and the ones that arent are pretty easy to remember where they go



With the mobo in the case, all pegs taken down to the height of the "ridge" in the bottom of the NES, and I took out the flaps from the lid



With the mobo AND GPU inside, everything cut and sanded down to the actual bottom of the case, there's JUST enough room to get the lid on. No risers on the mobo, it's sitting flat (I dont like that)
This is just on the case itself, no "tray" yet, see later pics



I dont have the proper back plate for this board (got it used) so I'm using another just to get the sizing right, this is at a height of Tray + risers (estimated, turns out I was a wee bit off, next time I take more exact measuerments


size template and then the rough first run of the bottom piece/mobo tray, had the risers put on to get air under the board. The first option was to glue this down to the bottom covering the holes nicely and giving as much height as I could get. That did not go so well lol



Yea, I know, the first option failed so now I'm on to options 2 and 3
Remember the part where I said I'll be trying many things and cutting the hell out of this case until I find the right fit? That's where we are now and from here on in



Yea, I cut off the part of the PCB where the red LED goes to make a half inch more for options for my GPU, in the mean time I also ran out of glue so until I get more plastic epoxy the tape will hold the new blue LED in place (not annoyingly bright either, on its side saves some room and gives of a similar to NES (if I recall) level of brightness when on.
 
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RESERVED

This will be for pics once the above post gets full!
 
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Power Draw and Temps

(6-15-2012) NEW BUILD BUT STILL WITHOUT AMD 6670, THIS TIME IN THE NES CASE, NO FANS

Had the GPU on the board but then I had to take it out to get it to fit in the NES case. Wanted to get an idea for what my temps would be like in the NES case real quick to give me an idea on if I can even get this GPU in there. I hope I can, it cost $100 lol. Again, remember, no fans besides the CPU are in play right now and the GPU is not installed, just the intel graphics. same config as the PicoPSU test below, NES cart door is closed to raise the temps as best I can.

Windows Idle - 50/49 , this is a good 16 degrees higer than the open bench test. This includes a bit of light web browsing.
Intel Burn Test/Max - 95/95!!!! I was watching this one close, it made it past the 20 min benchmark time but damn! Gonna need those fans
P95 Max Heat Mode - 99 @ 17 minutes, cut the test, fans will be required, simple as that


(6-15-2012) NEW BUILD BUT STILL WITHOUT AMD 6670
OK guys, finally back from my Army training, damn privates these days are busting my balls lol. Anyways, on to the build! I've got all the parts in now that I'm back home so I wanted to get some new numbers and see just how good this PicoPSU really is. Wow. Thats all I can say. See below for my new config and current numbers.

i3 2125@ 3.3 Ghz, HT disabled
8GB (4x2) Corsair Value Select Dual Chan DDR3 (1333 C9 1.5v)
500 GB 7200RPM lappy HDD
No Fans (besides CPU lol), 1x USB keyboard w/ CAC Reader and 1x USB Mouse, 1x 32GB USB Jump drive
144watt PicoPSU power supply

(From the wall)
Windows Idle HT disabled - 24-25 watts !!!!!! Thats 50% of what I was pulling!!!! Holy crap normal PSU's waste a bunch lol
Intel Burn Test/Max HT disabled - 63-64 watts (100% CPU and 93% of all memory (8GB)) Saving about 22-23 watts here, with 8x the memory too lol
P95 Max Heat Mode HT disabled - 67-68 watts (100% CPU and about 11% of all memory (8GB)) Again, around 22 watts saved here

Dont forget tho, that while these numbers show a huge drop, I am not running any fans yet on the PicoPSU. On my desktop PSU cutting out the fans saved me 13 total watts at idle, so in all honesty only 12 watts or so of the 25 watt drop was from efficency.

Quick note about temp changes, P95 didnt seem to reflect any changes, mostly I'm assuming because the app itself didnt use any more of the new 7 gigs of ram, however IBT reported temps of 65/62 per core after 20 minutes, I'm assuming because the app actually used all that free memory in its test and made the CPU work harder. Just thought I'd point that out, nothing else was more than half a degree off my old numbers so it wasnt worth reporting. Now to put the new GPU in and see how far that gets me!

(5-24-2012) WITHOUT AMD 6670 IN!!
Dont have the GPU in hand yet, or the ram, but I used the onboard graphics and a 1GB stick of what I have laying around. I wanted to get some benchmarks for the power usage of this thing to make sure my PSU was going to be good enough

So, I loaded up the board with the i3 2125, the hdd, one stick of ram, and put it on a normal desktop PSU. Also put a USB leyboard and mouse, as well as a USB powered (2 plugs) DVD drive for loading the OS. Ontop of that I plugged in 4 random fans I had, 2x 120's with lights, 1 HIGH speed 80mm and one of the low profile 40mm's im gonna use for the case fans. This way I can get as much of a load as I can to simulate being in the real thing. After the OS was loaded the DVD drive was removed and a 32GB USB stick was added, to add to the numbers as well.

I have a CRAP-tastic PSU on this thing right now, so I'm betting efficency is not it's strong point. I'll update as the night goes on with some more numbers hopefully (only have 1 gig of ram, hope thats enough to do these lol). Recordings are done by the averages I seen off my Kill-a-Watt plugged into a generic power strip. Emulation figures are with HT disabled

So, to list the over all draw's from the wall (not final build parts)
Windows Install - 63-70 watts
Windows Idle - 59-61 watts
Windows Idle HT disabled - 50-51 watts (shave off 9-10 watts at idle!)
Intel Burn Test/Max - 91-92 watts (100% CPU and 95% of all memory (1GB))
Intel Burn Test/Max HT disabled - 85-87 watts (100% CPU and 95% of all memory (1GB)) (only shave off 5-6 watts here)
P95 Mx Heat Mode - 95 watts (100% CPU and about 60% of all memory (1GB))
P95 Max Heat Mode HT disabled - 89 watts (100% CPU and about 50% of all memory (1GB)) (again, we cut off 6 watts here)
SNES Emulator - 58-61 watts
N64 Emulator - 56-58 watts (odd that its less than SNES)
PS2 Emulator - 70-85 lots of sway here, in not intense scenes it would do like 70-72 watts, fight scenes like 76-85, stuttering a bit during fights

Open air bench temps - The only fan blowing on anything is the CPU fan, the others are just blowing into the room, only there to simulate more power draw. Thermal paste is generic white stuff, AS5 ran out and is shipping here now
Ambient is 72* F - Benches run for 20 minutes, temps are max temps per core at time of finish (core1-core2 recording format). Emulation figures are with HT disabled

Windows Idle -
Windows Idle HT disabled - 34-34
IBT/Max - 65-62
IBT/Max HT disabled - 62-59 (3* cooler on each core)
P95 Max Heat Mode - 66-64
P95 Max Heat Mode HT disabled - 65-61 (odd, one core didnt really change, 1*, other was 3*)
SNES Emulator - 44-42
N64 Emulator - 44-40 (again, odd it's below the SNES)
PS2 Emulator - 55-51

Fun things to think about if you are here to gleam power numbers (remember, fans were just on the system to add draw, they were not actually cooling anything)
-Removing the HIGH speed 80mm fan literally cut 4 watts off lol
-Removing the 40mm low profile fan only cut about 1 watt off
-Removing all the fans except the CPU brought the system down to 37-38 watts idle with HT off, that's a 13 watt drop!!
 
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What I've learned so far for the final project.

(5-22-2012)
As long as I use risers, even on the lowest the NES has plastic on it, I can't run a low profile GPU "ON" the board it-self without lowering the bottom of the case beyond it's natural bottom. That's not going to happen lol

I can't put the mobo on the very bottom of the case because that blocks the USB ports (controllers) as well as the place where the power switch/reset button go, so I have to raise it

There's enough room below the board now that I bought a bunch of sizes of low profile fans just to see if and what works best. Could even do a standard HDD size lol. Got a feeling I'm going to need those fans because this thing will get warm in a hurry

With the mobo this high in the air I need to put the PSU in-line below the board to keep it looking good. That space is already cut up on my demo model so I can't verify how it'll work, partially because I dont even have the PSU yet lol

(5-24-2012)
Not sure I even need a GPU lol. I can run N64 and below right now on my power draw benchmark setup with only the integrated graphics, HT disabled, and 1 gig of ram (single channel) with 96mb for the IGP. When running PS2 at 2x native res with DX9 hardware mode on I'm a constant 60 FPS when running around, and maybe a dip here or there for a sec, and mostly 60 FPS with a drop every 5-10 seconds when in fights. Runs amazingly smooth as it's set up right now. I would imagine once I go to 8 Gigs of system memory in dual channel mode and 512MB video memory vs the current 96MB. Really considering not getting a GPU at all, gives me room for more fans and proper air flow. But then again the 3000HD from intel wont PC game all that well will it? I'm not going to be gaming much if at all, but it would make a cool lan case if I dont take my alienware laptop (not likely lol). Maybe PS2 at full screen emulation with effects would require the GPU?
 
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Things I'm going to try
(please, feel free to give me ideas lol)

(5-22-2012)
Bought a bunch of 4-5 CFM 40mm thin fans, 3 of these on the top ought to move just enough hot air out to be worth it (15CFM give or take), so I'm gonna try that once I'm done because this thing may be getting hot lol

Bought some slim case fans, may strip the fan off the intel HSF combo for the i3 and just strap on a thin case fan. Hopefully thats good enough if it comes to that

Maybe a fan or two on the bot as well? got 2 extra right now

Mount the GPU on a riser cable beside the actual mobo

Do the above, but if there isn't enough room, mount it there at an angle (tilted to the side

If that don't work, try to attach it to the lid If I can fanagle something up lol

If I get a smaller CPU cooler, raise the mobo a tad more and put the GPU down there under the board and put the HDD in the GPU's current place? Or even attach the HDD to the lid If I can get the GPU under the mobo
 
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4GB (2x2) DDR3 1600 C8 Ram
Click to expand...
You should return this RAM: It's rated at 1.65V, well above the recommended 1.5V RAM voltage for Intel CPUs. You're risking CPU damage with that RAM. Not to mention that it's pricey even for DDR3 1600 RAM and that you're limiting yourself only to 4GB of RAM. I recommend this RAM instead:
$20 - G.Skill F3-10666CL9S-2GBNT 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM
 
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Sweet, thanks

Updated the flow of things a bit, I'm going to be out of town most of tomorrow but toss me some feedback / ideas guys, maybe there's something I missed or didnt think of
 
-edit (5-24-2012)

temp figures are going in the first posts now to keep everything streamlined - full windows, benchmarks, and emulation records are up in the main body now, go check em out!!

Not sure I even need a GPU lol. I can run N64 and below right now on my power draw benchmark setup with only the integrated graphics, HT disabled, and 1 gig of ram (single channel) with 96mb for the IGP. When running PS2 at 2x native res with DX9 hardware mode on I'm a constant 60 FPS when running around, and maybe a dip here or there for a sec, and mostly 60 FPS with a drop every 5-10 seconds when in fights. Runs amazingly smooth as it's set up right now. I would imagine once I go to 8 Gigs of system memory in dual channel mode and 512MB video memory vs the current 96MB. Really considering not getting a GPU at all, gives me room for more fans and proper air flow. But then again the 3000HD from intel wont PC game all that well will it? I'm not going to be gaming much if at all, but it would make a cool lan case if I dont take my alienware laptop (not likely lol). Maybe PS2 at full screen emulation with effects would require the GPU?

Ideas folks?

-edit (5-24-2012)

Also, I head out tomorrow on that training mission I was talking about, but the good news is that today the 40 mm fans, fan Y cables, glue-paint-and-paintbrushes pack, one of the PCI-Ex risers, and the tubes of AS5 all came in today. Going to see about maybe atleast putting the fans on the lid? If not, then maybe I can atleast try to get the power button / reset button headers soldered on and think of something to do for the LED (need new blue LED). Once I get home in mid June I'll have everything in hand and hit the ground running!!
 
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Very cool project! Sounds like fun, looking good.

I saw you mention USB controller ports; are you planning on using modern USB NES controllers or are you keeping the classic NES ports? RetroUSB sells some nice adapters and also a DIY kit, if you're interested in keeping those original NES ports installed for the ultimate classic look!
 
I was looking to see if they have something to go from the NES console port to a female USB boot, this way it would look retro but if I wanted to use the front for USB I could

I want the availability of front USB because I already have 2 USB SNES controllers as well as 2 USB N64 controllers and my PS3 USB remotes for PS1/PS2 emulation. I guess it's not a deal breaker tho because I've got the back ones still and those can run through the walls secretly (I've got USB lines in the wall from the AV stack to right beside my couch, so I will probly just end up plugging in at the couch and playing that way)

I'll look into making a boot when I get back in Ohio, not sure if it'll be cost effective but who cares if its not too expensive it'll look cool still lol.
 
Also, anyone know a good spray paint that's close to the NES grey?

I'm going to use the bottom and spray diff areas to find out what to use for the final build
 
Back from my Army missions and now I can get back to cracking on this. Just updated the Power Draw/Temp section with new PicoPSU numbers to test how well the pico PSU actually works, and I think you'll like the results lol, there should be no problem running a GPU in this rig outside of getting the damn thing to fit lol.

Stand by for GPU numbers and pics over the next while!
 
Got it in the case (sans the GPU card) to get some ideas on temps. WOW, this baby gets hot, gonna need to add in some fans.
 
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