PROJECT ONE2 (12V Distribution board)

thehack

Limp Gawd
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ORIGINAL POST EDITED TO REFLECT UPDATE.

Pictures first: The prototype
NX5KdID.jpg


Pretty cute right? :D

What is it?
ONE2 DISTRO 400 is a versatile power distribution board with ripple suppression. It is designed to work with picoPSU, aka Plug In DC Board. It is compatible with any 12V power supply with a ripple of 240mV or lower.

It features, a first in the SFF scene, WAGO terminal connectors. These allow you to use any wire 18-12AWG, without terminals, so you can get that perfect length. No tools required to use these terminals.


ovMqZfg.png


It is also compatible with any external 12V AC-DC Adapter, provided you supply the correct wiring.

Features: 400W max board power, WAGO industrial quick connect terminals, small foot print,


SPECS:
Max Board Power: 400W

Board power using 8 pin connector: 300W (for safety reasons)
Board power using 4 wire WAGO terminals: 180W with 18 AWG, 300W with 16 AWG, 400W with 14 AWG

FULL KIT:

2X 6 pin to 6+2 Pin PCIE (length TBD)
1X 4pin CPU (length TBD)
Includes Plug In DC Board with 4pin Mini-Fit connector
Includes 2x SATA
Includes SYNC line
Ripple suppression: max 120mV Pk-Pk on output rails

Available as BOARD ONLY for modders.

Board will be black, with white silkscreen.
Cable kit will be black with sleeving (still working out details with vendor)

1 Year Warranty, Shipped from USA. Sold exclusively at shop.j-hackcompany.com (https://j-hack-shop.myshopify.com).


Retail price TBD. Expected release date: NOV 2018.
 

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sdfewfe

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Interesting. Just to check I am understanding this right: So the idea would be to use this plus a pico PSU in order to get additional 12V PCIe outputs. With both the pico PSU and this board running off the same (large) 12V AC-DC converter. The pico PSU would provide the 24 pin ATX output, and this board would provide the PCIe output. Correct?

Why both 8-pin EPS as well as screw terminal inputs? Is it "use one or the other", or would you use both?
 

thehack

Limp Gawd
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Interesting. Just to check I am understanding this right: So the idea would be to use this plus a pico PSU in order to get additional 12V PCIe outputs. With both the pico PSU and this board running off the same (large) 12V AC-DC converter. The pico PSU would provide the 24 pin ATX output, and this board would provide the PCIe output. Correct?

Why both 8-pin EPS as well as screw terminal inputs? Is it "use one or the other", or would you use both?

You can use either or both screw/mini fit. While I preferred to use industrial type connectors, molex mini fit is very common.

And yes, you're correct about how it would be used. One 4pin EPS is always on for the pico to work. The second one is connected to the load switch. I elected for two separate ones in case people want overclock so the second 4 pin provides additional current that the pico may not be able to handle.

I elected for 8 pin eps is for people who want to use an external SFX psu. Yes, an SFX psu outside the case. Others can just use standard 8 pin mini fit in, plugging a 4 pin in one works as well, and you can also use the screw terminals instead if you are using a custom connector.

Though the specs is not finalized until I order a prototype.
 
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I like it. Bricks and DC-DC units need to move to 12V, we are currently stuck using laptop standards. Is there a 400W+ 12V brick available anywhere?
 

thehack

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I like it. Bricks and DC-DC units need to move to 12V, we are currently stuck using laptop standards. Is there a 400W+ 12V brick available anywhere?

Only industrial ones. There are 250-300W desktop types available.

There plenty of 12V industrial power supply.

http://www.fiduspower.com/ac-dc-power-supply/open-frame/nevo-600m

600W in a 3x5 size (half of sfx). They are expensive though.

The SFX450/600 is actually a very small unit. However the DC-DC board is unnecessarily hefty, and then 92mm fan takes up a lot of space (though needed for its specced performance).

We are approaching the point to where cables and psu are the limiting factor of our builds. This is supposed to be a high quality board for innovating modders and builders.

Here is an example of how wasteful the 24pin is

https://i.imgur.com/e361jwUr.jpg
 
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sdfewfe

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You could always use two power bricks I assume, right? Too bad the HDPLEX internal AC-DC converter is outputting 19V.... That would be the perfect combination. Just out of curiosity, I would assume the pico PSU does filtering itself anyway - is there a need for the first 4-pin EPS to be attached to your board's filtering circuit, instead of straight onto the 12V input lines? If the 400W rating is limited by the filtering circuit, would the latter allow more total output power? (400W plus the pci PSU's limit, instead of 400W overall?)
 

thehack

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Messages
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You could always use two power bricks I assume, right? Too bad the HDPLEX internal AC-DC converter is outputting 19V.... That would be the perfect combination. Just out of curiosity, I would assume the pico PSU does filtering itself anyway - is there a need for the first 4-pin EPS to be attached to your board's filtering circuit, instead of straight onto the 12V input lines? If the 400W rating is limited by the filtering circuit, would the latter allow more total output power? (400W plus the pci PSU's limit, instead of 400W overall?)

1. The HDPLEX is excellent hardware. However since they are vested in 19V it has created unnecessary complexity and cost. The Dynamo however does the same thing and adds additional load balancing feature which allows you to hook up to bricks. They will be coming out with a 400W internal 19V brick.

2. Power rating is not limited to the filter circuit. More or so the amount of copper and number of mosfet the engineers spec it. The filter circuit allows you to use non compliant psu without worry. I can scale up to 600W or down to 250W as smaller and cheaper units. However I am aiming for a small limited run for modders which I stock and sell. I don't think I will make much beyond $100 for the whole project since I have to price it against the HDPLEX which has established supply chain and the backing of a successful company. The 400W rating is just my best guess on what is feasible and reasonable.

3. In this regard, my expectation is this is a niche of niche. The purpose to push the limits of sff build while offering a versatile unit.

4. If there is demand for a high power 600W version, I will seek to produce it. But considering the builds right now, I believe 600W is for 2GPUs or crazy overclocking, which we normally don't see in SFF.
 
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sdfewfe

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Ah, I see. I was just curious about the reasoning for putting the pico PSU behind the filter circuit. I imagine 400W should be plenty. Anyway, I think this is great! I would definitely be down for one, you're absolutely right that the ATX cabling is a huge waste of space. Any chance you'd consider making this some sort of open source hardware project, i.e. make schematics available? Would be awesome if people could further customize this to fit precisely into their case and power requirements. (Or at least, I would love to do that.)
 

thehack

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Ah, I see. I was just curious about the reasoning for putting the pico PSU behind the filter circuit. I imagine 400W should be plenty. Anyway, I think this is great! I would definitely be down for one, you're absolutely right that the ATX cabling is a huge waste of space. Any chance you'd consider making this some sort of open source hardware project, i.e. make schematics available? Would be awesome if people could further customize this to fit precisely into their case and power requirements. (Or at least, I would love to do that.)

Unfortunately it won't be open source. Though if someone were to be able to customize one, they should be able to design the circuit as it is very simple. The issue is the production costs.
 

sdfewfe

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Unfortunately it won't be open source. Though if someone were to be able to customize one, they should be able to design the circuit as it is very simple. The issue is the production costs.
Fair enough, haha - Is the filter circuit just some capacitors? Or an LC filter?
 

thehack

Limp Gawd
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Fair enough, haha - Is the filter circuit just some capacitors? Or an LC filter?
LC filter. I should have a prototype made in a couple weeks.

I will be pairing it with a Meanwell External PSU, rated 250W, with a pico style kit and the distro board, you can build a 1070 + i5 in Dan Case and have room for a 120mm rad.
 

sdfewfe

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Cool. Keep us in the loop. I've had a look at chassis-mount 12V PSUs as well - it looks like there is some options that you could fit inside an A4 or similar, that don't cost too much, e.g. the Meanwell UHP series. That would be the ultimate goal for me, fit everything inside the case.
 

thehack

Limp Gawd
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Cool. Keep us in the loop. I've had a look at chassis-mount 12V PSUs as well - it looks like there is some options that you could fit inside an A4 or similar, that don't cost too much, e.g. the Meanwell UHP series. That would be the ultimate goal for me, fit everything inside the case.

Yeah. I'm also targeting the UHP as well, since it's ripple specs is above ATX standard. However I'm not sure why one would add that to the Dancase as you already have space for an SFX. I have taken a look inside the sfx case and is essentially a 3x5 psu. It's actually trimmed down to like 3x4.8. It's pretty much as small as you can get. Only issue is bulky cables.

Moving the DC-DC board to a pico one does solve that nicely.
BZgBHEe.jpg
 
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sdfewfe

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Yeah. I'm also targeting the UHP as well, since it's ripple specs is above ATX standard. However I'm not sure why one would add that to the Dancase as you already have space for an SFX. I have taken a look inside the sfx case and is essentially a 3x5 psu. It's actually trimmed down to like 3x4.8. It's pretty much as small as you can get. Only issue is bulky cables.
Ah, I was thinking of trying to squeeze it underneath or behind the GPU... I haven't measured how much space there is exactly though, might be that I'm being too optimistic. Or possibly in one of the tophats in the upcoming Ghost S1.
 

thehack

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Ah, I was thinking of trying to squeeze it underneath or behind the GPU... I haven't measured how much space there is exactly though, might be that I'm being too optimistic. Or possibly in one of the tophats in the upcoming Ghost S1.

You won't have space for that, as the riser board takes up same space. If the gpu was moved up higher then yeah maybe.

I think we've reached a point where our case are as small as they'll get unless we go for a pure 12V build. I'm hopping to devise a versatile solution that modders can use in combination with other external or internal AC-DC units to get even smaller.

Lol the interest is lukewarm though but I think I'll still be stubborn. I think once I show a Dancase + 120 rad and external and easily sourced meanwell maybe it'll work. Though current external 12v is limited at 250W.
 

sdfewfe

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Yeah, the lack of 12V supplies is a bit frustrating. I suppose one could mount something like an UHP in a small enclosure relatively easily. Still not quite the same as something available off the shelf though, and might put a fair number of people off.

In case you don't end up going through with this, I'd be very interested in the schematics, or a few more pointers on filtering circuits. I would be able to build one myself I think, I just don't have any experience with analog electronics, and the finer points of an LC circuit are beyond my current knowledge. If you do build one I'm obviously down for one, of course.

If you're mostly worried about cables, do you _really_ need 24 individual wires for an ATX supply? Surely you could do with one (appropriately dimensioned) wire each for GND, 12V, 5V, etc., right?
 

thehack

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Yeah, the lack of 12V supplies is a bit frustrating. I suppose one could mount something like an UHP in a small enclosure relatively easily. Still not quite the same as something available off the shelf though, and might put a fair number of people off.

In case you don't end up going through with this, I'd be very interested in the schematics, or a few more pointers on filtering circuits. I would be able to build one myself I think, I just don't have any experience with analog electronics, and the finer points of an LC circuit are beyond my current knowledge. If you do build one I'm obviously down for one, of course.

If you're mostly worried about cables, do you _really_ need 24 individual wires for an ATX supply? Surely you could do with one (appropriately dimensioned) wire each for GND, 12V, 5V, etc., right?

I am definitely going through with this. The designer is already starting. I'm not an electrical designer myself, i'm more of electronics repairman (mostly supervision work nowadays).

No you don't need all that wires, that why PICO is so space efficient, as each 5V 3.3V lines don't require a lot of current. However, splitting the wires would require a board still so it just simpler to split it with a voltage regulator circuit while using just 12V input (vs taking all the inputs). If you check the previous post, I added a picture where i use a pico + SFX PSU to reduce the 24 pin wires.

I'll be also adding a plug-in DC board (picoPSU) along with this distro board as a combo later on. Should be a bit cheaper than HDPLEX's offering (i have to anyways, or else it won't sell since HDPLEX has a good reputation).
 

thehack

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Update: Specs finalize, Board component finalized

Prototype v0.1 will be manufactured next week.

Next up: Board testing, feedback, and Prototype v0.2
 

Wade88

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I'm down for a pure 12v build for use in RV's, it has always bothered me to invert from 12vdc to 110vac then to 19vdc to run a computer in RV's and pickup trucks. Would club baby seals to run a sff on 12vdc.
 

thehack

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I'm down for a pure 12v build for use in RV's, it has always bothered me to invert from 12vdc to 110vac then to 19vdc to run a computer in RV's and pickup trucks. Would club baby seals to run a sff on 12vdc.

It is a lil' bit messier on 12V RV since the range is a bit higher. You'd have to confirm that your RV stays within the ATX range: +11.40 V to +12.60. If it does that, then you're good to go.
 

sdfewfe

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I'm down for a pure 12v build for use in RV's, it has always bothered me to invert from 12vdc to 110vac then to 19vdc to run a computer in RV's and pickup trucks. Would club baby seals to run a sff on 12vdc.

Couldn't you use a boost converter to go directly from 12V to 19V, without the 110V AC in between? I mean, still a bit useless to go 12V to 19V only to go back to 12V, but it'd at least eliminate one step.
 

Wade88

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I suppose so but there is already an inverter running for air conditioner, a/v receiver, tv, occasional space heater. 800 amp hours of LiFePO4 goes a long way if you have a large enough inverter.
 

thehack

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I suppose so but there is already an inverter running for air conditioner, a/v receiver, tv, occasional space heater. 800 amp hours of LiFePO4 goes a long way if you have a large enough inverter.

Mini-box does make a buck-boost converter that will convert most voltages into 12V atx spec. The issue is it is only rated for 200W. If there is a market for a 400W kit... i don't mind developing it. But it's hard to find buyers for such a niche product: gamers in RVs. I'd have to extend out to the RV community.

Anyways. Here is the prototype! It's really happening!

xKoKMSr.jpg
 

Wade88

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I don't live in it but it sure beats hotels when I must travel for work. Also can bring the critters more simply.
00021IMG_00021_BURST20180227110711_COVER.jpg IMG_20170329_153603.jpg
 
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CC Ricers

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Hey TheHack, nice to see your project over here. Prototypes look good. Are the connectors and screw terminals the only components that aren't soldered on in that picture? You could possibly sell some as a DIY kit if it can save you some costs.
 

thehack

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Hey TheHack, nice to see your project over here. Prototypes look good. Are the connectors and screw terminals the only components that aren't soldered on in that picture? You could possibly sell some as a DIY kit if it can save you some costs.

Yes, it is just missing terminals/connector headers. Once it gets going, I can maybe consider a "barebone" kit, with a semi finished board and no wiring kits. We will see how popular this picks up.

I hope to get to the point where I can also bundle AC-DC PSUs. I just need to build up branding/customer base.
 

Smitty2k1

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This looks great. Just bought a Mean Well 12v AC-DC in an attempt to make my Realan case brickless. I haven't even done the mod yet and I think I'm a 12v convert!
 

thehack

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This looks great. Just bought a Mean Well 12v AC-DC in an attempt to make my Realan case brickless. I haven't even done the mod yet and I think I'm a 12v convert!

Glad to get you on board. I updated the first post to reflect the correct prototype.
 

thehack

Limp Gawd
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Alright, some good news, and some bad news.

The good news is: the distro works very well, and fits perfectly inside the dancase. I will be making some very nice changes to tidy up the look of the board, and will hopefully get second set of prototype in a month or so.

The bad news is the sync feature needs to be modified and this delays the development by a month as well. Hopefully that gets squared away. This mean I'm currently looking at Early 2019 for a consumer release.

Here are pictures of it inside a build:

r4PdZtf.jpg

Q8KZdxU.jpg
 

thehack

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Revision 2 is under way.

For the cabling,

Would you guys like to see individually sleeved cables as the default? It'll increase the price of course. Or just simple black cables?
 

sdfewfe

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Personally I'd prefer plain cables, makes it easier to cut them to size and solder directly onto the board. ;) But I'd probably get the kit version anyway if that's still coming.

Just out of curiosity, you posted a picture earlier of your SFX plus picoPSU system earlier, to get rid of the bulky ATX cable. With that, do you feed the Power ON signal from the mainboard back to the SFX PSU in any way? Or is the SFX PSU just always on? I'm thinking of doing something similar for the time being.
 

thehack

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Personally I'd prefer plain cables, makes it easier to cut them to size and solder directly onto the board. ;) But I'd probably get the kit version anyway if that's still coming.

Just out of curiosity, you posted a picture earlier of your SFX plus picoPSU system earlier, to get rid of the bulky ATX cable. With that, do you feed the Power ON signal from the mainboard back to the SFX PSU in any way? Or is the SFX PSU just always on? I'm thinking of doing something similar for the time being.

The power on signal can't be fed back because you need the 12V for it to work in the place.

So the sfx psu is just left always on.
 
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