Project mATX - 3x 240mm Radiators in <20L

Necere

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Jan 3, 2003
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I'm a little confused how this case is 327mm tall but can support a top 45mm thick rad with 25mm thick fans. That's 70mm above the motherboard, and even excluding any clearances or the sheet metal thickness, the height of just that plus a mATX board w/5 slots is 2mm taller than the case:



I could see it maybe working if the top rad/fans are allowed to overlap the motherboard, but with the case being only 165mm wide they're going to be impinging on the motherboard's keepout zone. That might work fine with some boards, but I'd be careful about claiming compatibility for thicker rads if that's the case.

So, is that WITH or WITHOUT having all of the PCI slots utilized…?
It looks to me like a bottom rad is going to take the place of the PCI slots. One slot is ~20mm, so a 30mm rad + 25mm fans would take up the bottom three slots.
 

Jeffinslaw

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So, is that WITH or WITHOUT having all of the PCI slots utilized…?

I have visions of the following:

Asus ROG Maximus VIII Gene mATX board w/ 6700K i7, covered by an EKWB mono block; this has a 240mm radiator.

EVGA GeForce GTX 980Ti (or, shiny new Pascal GPU) in top PCI slot w/ full-cover EKWB water block & backplate; this also has a 240mm radiator.

Bottom PCI slot would have an Intel 750-series 1.2TB NVMe SSD w/ EKWB full-cover water block. RAM would also have EKWB water block. And if it will fit (as it was originally designed for the M6G/M7G), the EKWB south bridge water block would be installed as well (this is why only a single GPU). These three blocks would be cooled by the bottom 240mm radiator, if it will fit with the Intel SSD in the bottom PCI slot…?

Basically, an entire compute system under water…!

Just Armchair Building here…

Will this be one loop or are you trying to do three loops in the case? I hope it isn't the later, that would be impossible in this case lol. What you are planning will work just fine! Since the SSD is only 1 slot thick, the bottom radiator and fans will be VERY close to touching the block. It will work though :) would be awesome to see! If you are interested in purchasing your own case, head over to overclock.net and find my artisan page!


I'm a little confused how this case is 327mm tall but can support a top 45mm thick rad with 25mm thick fans. That's 70mm above the motherboard, and even excluding any clearances or the sheet metal thickness, the height of just that plus a mATX board w/5 slots is 2mm taller than the case:

I could see it maybe working if the top rad/fans are allowed to overlap the motherboard, but with the case being only 165mm wide they're going to be impinging on the motherboard's keepout zone. That might work fine with some boards, but I'd be careful about claiming compatibility for thicker rads if that's the case.

It looks to me like a bottom rad is going to take the place of the PCI slots. One slot is ~20mm, so a 30mm rad + 25mm fans would take up the bottom three slots.

My measurements are correct and things fit. I really took my time to design this case and make sure everything fits. 45mm radiator + 25mm fans would clear the motherboard by a fraction of a mm. On the bottom, you will get VERY close to any cards in the third slot. The bottom 240mm radiator mount was added for the people that want to try and use it. Not everybody will use it but I figured adding that option would be beneficial.

If you have any other questions or want some pictures of the case, let me know :)

-Jeffinslaw
 

Boil

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Will this be one loop or are you trying to do three loops in the case?

Again, just Armchair Building here (kinda like Bench Racing…?); ideally it WOUL be three separate loops, but I would want to try & use EKWB 240mm Predator AIOs for each loop. Removing, of course, the CPU water blocks & plumbing in the appropriate water blocks…

I feel this would allow for each sub-system to have better control over its attending fans & water pump…
 

Necere

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Jan 3, 2003
Messages
2,775
My measurements are correct and things fit. I really took my time to design this case and make sure everything fits.
While I don't doubt that's true, and I'm not trying to be disagreeable, things just don't add up the way you've described them. Per the pic I posted above, there simply wouldn't be enough clearance between the top of the motherboard and the top of the case for 70mm worth of rad+fans in the 327mm height you've specified for the case. It's just not physically possible. The only way it can work is if the clearance is less than 70mm and it overlaps the motherboard, but again, it's going to violate the height restriction zone of the motherboard.

Look, here's the drawing for the height restriction zones from the official ATX spec:

UrfsLlt.png


Technically, we're supposed to keep things clear 3" out from the motherboard around the CPU to "accommodate dynamic excursion considerations for shipping." In practice, clearing 1.5" (38.1mm) is sufficient for the vast majority of motherboards, and is what I generally use. However, I'm fairly sure there are some that exceed that - the ASUS mini-ITX boards with the VRM daughterboard are a good example. But even if we keep it to only 38.1mm, there's no way a rad is going to clear it in the 165mm width you've specified for the case:



Regarding a rad on the bottom, assuming a full 70mm of clearance at the top and a 30mm rad + 25mm fans on the bottom, there's not enough height to clear the third expansion slot:



This needs a minimum of 343mm - 16mm more than the entire height of the case.

Again, not trying to be rude or disagreeable here, but the numbers just don't work the way you've described them.
 

Jeffinslaw

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While I don't doubt that's true, and I'm not trying to be disagreeable, things just don't add up the way you've described them. Per the pic I posted above, there simply wouldn't be enough clearance between the top of the motherboard and the top of the case for 70mm worth of rad+fans in the 327mm height you've specified for the case. It's just not physically possible. The only way it can work is if the clearance is less than 70mm and it overlaps the motherboard, but again, it's going to violate the height restriction zone of the motherboard.

Look, here's the drawing for the height restriction zones from the official ATX spec:

Technically, we're supposed to keep things clear 3" out from the motherboard around the CPU to "accommodate dynamic excursion considerations for shipping." In practice, clearing 1.5" (38.1mm) is sufficient for the vast majority of motherboards, and is what I generally use. However, I'm fairly sure there are some that exceed that - the ASUS mini-ITX boards with the VRM daughterboard are a good example. But even if we keep it to only 38.1mm, there's no way a rad is going to clear it in the 165mm width you've specified for the case:

Regarding a rad on the bottom, assuming a full 70mm of clearance at the top and a 30mm rad + 25mm fans on the bottom, there's not enough height to clear the third expansion slot:

This needs a minimum of 343mm - 16mm more than the entire height of the case.

Again, not trying to be rude or disagreeable here, but the numbers just don't work the way you've described them.

I know some of the measurements don't add up but it works. I can purchase some 45mm thick radiators and fit them into the case to show you that it works if you'd like? Or, I'll be tearing down the loop here soon so I can sleeve the last few items and finish the build up and I can take some more pictures for you?

I do appreciate the comments though :)

Again, just Armchair Building here (kinda like Bench Racing…?); ideally it WOUL be three separate loops, but I would want to try & use EKWB 240mm Predator AIOs for each loop. Removing, of course, the CPU water blocks & plumbing in the appropriate water blocks…

I feel this would allow for each sub-system to have better control over its attending fans & water pump…

There really isn't advantage of having each item in its own loop. Makes things messier. You don't really need a 240mm for each component. The rule of thumb is 120mm radiator for each heat source plus an extra 120mm. So, if you have three heat sources (chipset on the board is negligible), you'd need 480mm worth of radiator. So you could go overkill and throw in a third 240mm radiator. Your temperatures would be pretty great!

-Jeffinslaw
 

Necere

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I know some of the measurements don't add up but it works. I can purchase some 45mm thick radiators and fit them into the case to show you that it works if you'd like? Or, I'll be tearing down the loop here soon so I can sleeve the last few items and finish the build up and I can take some more pictures for you?
No, I don't want pictures. Listen, here's all I need: 1) the distance from the top of the case to the rear I/O cutout; and 2) the distance from the right side of the case to the rear I/O cutout. Those two things will tell me everything I need to know. Here's a picture for clarity:

uAyv9dU.jpg


Also if you can verify the height and width of the case that would be good too.
 

Jeffinslaw

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No, I don't want pictures. Listen, here's all I need: 1) the distance from the top of the case to the rear I/O cutout; and 2) the distance from the right side of the case to the rear I/O cutout. Those two things will tell me everything I need to know. Here's a picture for clarity:

Also if you can verify the height and width of the case that would be good too.

1. 70mm
2. 14.2875mm

36.92cm length, 32.76cm tall, 16.51cm wide just measured from my up to date 3D model of the case (the 3D model that was used for production).

-Jeffinslaw
 

Necere

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2,775
1. 70mm
2. 14.2875mm

36.92cm length, 32.76cm tall, 16.51cm wide just measured from my up to date 3D model of the case (the 3D model that was used for production).

-Jeffinslaw
Okay, thanks. If you can show a 30mm rad + 25mm thick fan on the bottom that completely clears the top three slots, I'd be interested to see that.
 

Jeffinslaw

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Okay, thanks. If you can show a 30mm rad + 25mm thick fan on the bottom that completely clears the top three slots, I'd be interested to see that.

I can get you that picture. It will take a few days though, will need to tear down the computer.
 

Necere

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I can get you that picture. It will take a few days though, will need to tear down the computer.
Well, don't go out of your way for it. I'm just trying to figure out why the numbers aren't adding up. Can you take a screenshot of the back of the model in Solidworks with the measurement from the bottom of the case to the top?
 

The_Oasis

Limp Gawd
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Nice looking case! I tried to CTRL-F temps, but couldn't see anything. How does it run?
 

Jeffinslaw

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I'd like a response to this, if you wouldn't mind.

Alright, it will take some time. Measurements in SolidWorks is weird if you haven't ever used it. Not trying to hide stuff, I'm just genuinely busy and don't have the time to sit down and fiddle with it. Give em a few days when I get home and I'll take the system apart and get the pictures you'd like.

Nice looking case! I tried to CTRL-F temps, but couldn't see anything. How does it run?

I haven't actually completed the build yet. Had a lot of stuff pile up in RL and it has sat on the floor for two months. I'll be finishing it up in the next few weeks. If it runs anything like my Compact Splash rig, it will be nice and cool.

-Jeffinslaw
 

Necere

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Yeah, that's about what I expected. With the 2mm case walls included, the height is 335.27mm - taller than the dimensions you gave earlier by about 7.5mm. And in fact, measuring the drawing, all the dimensions are slightly larger. Here's what I get:

H x W x D: 335.27 x 172.63 x 376.5mm, 21.79L

Compared to what you originally claimed the dimensions to be:

H x W x D: 327.8 x 165.1 x 369.2mm, 19.98L


I have to say, Jeff, what it looks like is that you fudged the numbers so you could claim the case is under 20 liters. Maybe you did that because you believe that it has to be under 20L to qualify as "SFF" (which isn't true, btw - Intel sets the cut off at 19L, Silverstone at 23L - it's completely arbitrary). I personally would not have cared if it was a little over or under 20L - it's a small case for what it is, either way, and therefore qualifies as SFF in my mind - but IMO being intentionally misleading about it was not the way to go.
 
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Jeffinslaw

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No, what it looks like is that I gave you the dimensions of the side panel which came flush to the bends allowing me to ignore the thickness of the sheet metal. The dimensions I gave you were correct and were for the side panel which was pretty damn close to the size of the case.

Also, the width of the case is 165.1mm. It's 6.5in wide, your measurement for that is OFF. I was not "intentionally" misleading anyone about the design.

Now, if you are going to continue to harass me in MY build log, I will kindly ask you to leave. I do not appreciate the nitpicking about a case I spent the better part of three months designing and then another four months prototyping and then manufacturing.
 

Necere

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In your own words:
Whats the case dimensions? I cant seem to find that anywhere.
Exact dimensions are: Height: 32.78cm (327.8mm), length: 36.92cm (369.2mm), width: 16.51cm (165.1mm). In inches, that is 12.91in x 14.54in x 6.5in (H x L x W).
You claim that the height of the case is 327.8mm. Yet, In the drawing you just posted, the height clearly adds up to 335.27mm. Are you telling me that when you were asked for the case dimensions, the dimensions you provided weren't actually of the whole case? Just some combination of the side panel dimensions and case width? That doesn't seem misleading to you?

Now, if you are going to continue to harass me in MY build log, I will kindly ask you to leave.
This isn't just a build log, this thread is to promote the case you're selling, which isn't even allowed here without permission.
 

iFreilicht

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I think I'll have to side with Necere here.

36.92cm length, 32.76cm tall, 16.51cm wide just measured from my up to date 3D model of the case (the 3D model that was used for production).

-Jeffinslaw

327.6mm tall. That's the dimension that caused confusion because that wouldn't allow for a 45mm rad + 25mm fans above the mainboard. Couldn't find a quote where you claimed that, but that's how the discussion started.

Here you go! Hope the measurements are sufficient :)

bt0qKYbh.jpg


dP27Gbmh.jpg


-Jeffinslaw

So in this picture, the case is actually 331.27 mm tall on the inside, plus 2 mm for each the top and the bottom panel, so total height is ~335.3 mm, which is 7.5mm taller than you claimed.
I didn't check width and depth that Necere measured from the picture, but just with the updated height, your case is not as small as advertised. In fact, it reaches a volume of 20.44L, which isn't a deal breaker, but certainly not <20L.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that this was a genuine mistake, but you should clarify that your case isn't as small as you previously claimed it to be.
 

Necere

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what?
I bought one, where are the problem?
There's nothing wrong with it. It's just slightly bigger than it's advertised to be. Grab a tape measure and check for yourself. And actually, if you do, report back. I'd be interested to see what the real dimensions are.
 

mrluckypants96

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So I recently received one of these cases in a trade, as well as the acrylic side panel, and I'm having a hard time getting the new panel on. The metal panel fits fine, but the screws aren't long enough for the plastic panel to be secured (since the metal panel has an indent in each screw hole to allow the screws to get closer to the case, where the plastic one is flat). Any ideas how to fix this Jeff?
 

Jeffinslaw

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Jan 2, 2013
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So I recently received one of these cases in a trade, as well as the acrylic side panel, and I'm having a hard time getting the new panel on. The metal panel fits fine, but the screws aren't long enough for the plastic panel to be secured (since the metal panel has an indent in each screw hole to allow the screws to get closer to the case, where the plastic one is flat). Any ideas how to fix this Jeff?

You should have gotten some extra screws that were meant for the acrylic side panel.

Sorry, have been busy lately.
 
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