Project Cars?

tonyftw said:
Any [H] members playing this with a wheel? Thinking of buying one, though not sure which model (looking at the g27).
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Fanatec, Logitech G27, and upper end Thrustmaster make great wheels. The European crowd on the official forums seem to favor Fanatec heavily. The Americans seem to like getting a G27 from Amazon. I have the G27 and I like it. It was a worthwhile purchase. Too bad only a few officially licensed wheels work with the XBOX One and PS4. Would be nice to buy one wheel and use it on all platforms.
 
I was excited about this game, but I think I'm going to hold off for a bit. I have a Playseat and Logitech Driving Force GT wheel that I could use (prev used on PS3 for GT6), but every now and then I like to use a gamepad like the 360 controller. You figure they'd have a default setting for the 360 gamepad that is calibrated just right for the average gamer. I don't want to spend all my time making adjustments. I went through that on the Dirt series and didn't like it.
 
Graphics
With an Nvidia card on high to Ultra settings it is a beautiful game. AMD has issues with their drivers in this game. Just wanted to get this out of the way.

Controls Gamepad
With a gamepad it is twitchy so you're going to have to spend some time to get it dialed in. My best way to explain it is that remember the old muscle cars from the 1960's that if you stomped the gas at 90 mph, they would do a burnout and promptly deposit you in a ditch if not careful? Well Project Cars has tons of cars with double the horsepower. So a gamepad like a XBOX 360 pad doesn't relay that you're losing grip. It is serviceable, but not the best solution.

Controls Wheel
With a wheel like the G27 the game is simply marvelous. You will be blown away with the precision that you can dial in with a wheel. Your lap times will get faster and faster as you grin from ear to ear. Force Feedback will take some time to get dialed in. Seems that everyone has a different opinion of what is correct after reading the forums for years.

What does the game compare to?
It is a simulator so it is best to compare it to Assetto Corsa, Iracing, RFactor 2. It is absolutely nothing like The Crew, Forza, etc. The only car customization is the manufacturer, series you're willing to race in, the color of your car, and dialing in the chassis for the track. There are a myriad of tweaks you can perform on the car, but there is nothing in the game related to buying shocks, tires, engines swaps, turbos, etc. It is all about going faster around the track against opponents with the exact same gear as you.

This is a game of skill; where you win based upon said skill. You don't lose because Billy unlocked the 3,000 HP engine upgrade.
 
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Does anyone have issues with the FPS randomly dropping. Normally I'll get in the 70-90 fps range depending on what's happening on screen, but every few races I'll have an issue where mid-race it will drop to 30-40. Once it drops, it will stay in that range until the race is over. When I start a new race my fps will be back to normal.

Also, once you start a career is your progression strictly limited by the offers you receive after finishing a season? I remember the devs always hyping that career isn't restricted. It wasn't when I first started my career, being that I could pick any class I wanted, but now I'm limited to what team offers I'm getting to race in. Seems odd to me. Does this eventually change (i've only on my third season), or am I missing something?
 
Anyone else have weird collision stutters. Shift had a similar thing where there would be weird sutters when ever there were physical hits/damage. Its annoying as hell and it shows up in many videos. I am surprised people aren't sensitive to this. No drop in fps happens.
 
Mystic-Micro said:
Anyone else have weird collision stutters. Shift had a similar thing where there would be weird sutters when ever there were physical hits/damage. Its annoying as hell and it shows up in many videos. I am surprised people aren't sensitive to this. No drop in fps happens.
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Yes! And it is annoying as hell isn't it? I swear that the game tries to anticipate that you're going to hit a wall, cone, rumble strip, etc and stutters in advance. This of course absolutely ensures that you hit the wall. :) That's another issue that I've been bitching about for years and received no feedback from the developers!

Glad and very sad that someone else experiences this as every time I reported it nobody would respond which made me feel like I was the only one sometimes. Those of that experienced it always speculated that the PhysX was choking the CPU so the game would "hang". But like I said that was just some speculation. ;)
 
The AI is this game is that of a bunch of drunk clowns trying to cross the border..
 
cageymaru said:
Yes! And it is annoying as hell isn't it? I swear that the game tries to anticipate that you're going to hit a wall, cone, rumble strip, etc and stutters in advance. This of course absolutely ensures that you hit the wall. :) That's another issue that I've been bitching about for years and received no feedback from the developers!

Glad and very sad that someone else experiences this as every time I reported it nobody would respond which made me feel like I was the only one sometimes. Those of that experienced it always speculated that the PhysX was choking the CPU so the game would "hang". But like I said that was just some speculation. ;)
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Thank god you see it too, There were actually a few posts on this in Shift [no grip forums] as well. Pretty much any non marketing video of this game also exhibits this. though no one ever seems to highlight it. I don't understand how just as much you do :(
 
I'm probably going to get flak for posting this, but as someone who doesn't play this game I didn't realize Nvidia had such a heavy presence in it.

http://imgur.com/a/KH7En

Seems like a lot of adverts for a company that "didn't give them a penny". Food for thought.
Maybe I'm right to be skeptical of a guy I've never heard of who works for a gaming company I've also never heard of.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
I'm probably going to get flak for posting this, but as someone who doesn't play this game I didn't realize Nvidia had such a heavy presence in it.

http://imgur.com/a/KH7En

Seems like a lot of adverts for a company that "didn't give them a penny". Food for thought.
Maybe I'm right to be skeptical of a guy I've never heard of who works for a gaming company I've also never heard of.
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Does it really matter? The gameplay is all that matters to me. They can have adverts for AMD, Nintendo or whatever else and I wouldn't care in a racing game, as long as the game itself is good.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
I'm probably going to get flak for posting this, but as someone who doesn't play this game I didn't realize Nvidia had such a heavy presence in it.

http://imgur.com/a/KH7En

Seems like a lot of adverts for a company that "didn't give them a penny". Food for thought.
Maybe I'm right to be skeptical of a guy I've never heard of who works for a gaming company I've also never heard of.
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you've never been to a real race track I take it
 
mope54 said:
you've never been to a real race track I take it
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I guess the real question would be, what does someone have to do to get their name (company's name) splattered all over a race track?

I mean... I'm just guessing here, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm totally going out on a limb here... I bet money is involved.
Do you think if I went down to the Daytona 500 and asked them nicely they would put 100 giant "TaintedSquirrel" logos all over their billboards?!
 
refraxion said:
Does it really matter? The gameplay is all that matters to me. They can have adverts for AMD, Nintendo or whatever else and I wouldn't care in a racing game, as long as the game itself is good.
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The problem has been in the act of lying that the devs where caught in. Building your game entirely on an NVidia blackbox and then blaming AMD because it does not perform as well on non NVidia hardware was stupid. Also, they claim they get no money from Nvidia and then plaster all their ads all over the game.
 
ManofGod said:
The problem has been in the act of lying that the devs where caught in. Building your game entirely on an NVidia blackbox and then blaming AMD because it does not perform as well on non NVidia hardware was stupid. Also, they claim they get no money from Nvidia and then plaster all their ads all over the game.
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But were they? There is zero proof they did. You can say they used gameworks, but if you contacted both companies telling them you are writing this kind of game, and one comes around constantly asking you to use their APIs while offering to help out anyway they can and another that says sure we have this thing called Mantle you can use then never contacts you again or offer any kind of help, which of those company's APIs do you think you'd use in your game? I know I would be using Nvidias for no other reason than they were persistent and believed in their product enough to show me that it would make my life easier, while AMD seems to not really care. As far as the banners in the game, if after helping me out with using their API they came up and ask "could you put some banners on the tracks that advertise our product in game?" I would offer to do it for free especially if they helped out a good amount.

To me this is a just a clear case of negligence from AMD, which to me is no surprise. They make good hardware but their software side just, to put it mildly, sucks. There is a reason Nvidia has a 70% market share for video cards and it all has to do with how well they not only put out drivers, but engage developers. AMD sounds basically like a scorned suitor wondering why the girl never picks them. Simply put you're never going to get her if all you do is show up once in a while with something cool, and the other guy comes around constantly asking if she needs help and what he can do for her.
 
Well to be honest there was no thought process for Mantle existing when the game was started in development. So that isn't relevant in this discussion. The developers did contemplate adding Mantle at one point and then never mentioned it again after Nvidia showcased them at the next month's video gaming tradeshow. They did talk smack about AMD on the Steam forums a year ago and let it be known that they didn't think their products were good.

If you look earlier in the thread I quoted where they worked with AMD all the way up to the failed March release. I'm sure that others noticed that they were dodging GTA V. :) Then just before this release they started talking again with AMD. Now is that a fail on AMD or SMS that a month was skipped? I blame both of them, but to be honest SMS is the one trying to sell more copies of their game. AMD can market DX12 and pretend Project Cars doesn't exist if they wanted to. In the end it is SMS that loses and that's just the way life is.

The fact that SMS was only able to get a 1% performance boost for a ton of work on AMD hardware says a lot. I think that Nvidia has to be doing some weird shit with GameWorks / developer suggestions and relations. I would like to see AMD do more for drivers. But why is it that only Nvidia backed titles have all the big glaring issues? Either it's Nvidia is suggesting that developers do stupid shit that in the end makes the game really hard for it to run on AMD, or AMD walks away from helping Nvidia backed titles and refuses to offer support.

Considering how much work is done with UBISOFT post release to get their Nvidia backed titles running correctly, I doubt the AMD refuses to work with Nvidia sponsored developers. We all know that GameWorks is an encrypted black box. It is what it is. I could care less what it is as long as the developers of games can use it correctly to make games that work on all hardware. And this is not the case most times. So in my opinion there is something inherently wrong with the way GameWorks operates. The tools that Nvidia sponsored developers are using has issues. This is obvious.

The last thought I have on the subject is that AMD's GCN architecture hasn't really changed much from launch. Their drivers get updated once every 3 months or more? So it's not like SMS was working against rogue driver code that was fluid and ever changing. The way AMD does things is well documented and easily available. There are no black boxes to decipher. That makes it ever more puzzling that SMS couldn't figure out how to make it work. Were they unable to find AMD hardware to run a test? People act like they were broadsided at the 11th hour with some new AMD tech that broke the game. :) These are the same video cards from October 24, 2013!

Also it is telling that Windows 10 can run the game at 20% to 50% more performance on AMD cards. That's most likely because the OS can deal with CPU bound situations much better than DX11. PhysX on the CPU is a hog? Maybe in an ideal world the game should have been a DX12 launch title. I am not suggesting that they should have waited as they have a team to pay and investors to reimburse. But it just seems like a case of desperately needing to get the product out now for 70% of the market to digest, and we'll fix the other camp's issues at a later date. That's just my personal opinion. I'm not saying that's what happened. But damn; this is how you treat your customers?
 
Try hard. Inigo Montoya streams for them every morning I believe. :)
http://www.twitch.tv/streamerhouse

RkVrg47h.png
 
LurkerLito said:
But were they? There is zero proof they did. You can say they used gameworks, but if you contacted both companies telling them you are writing this kind of game, and one comes around constantly asking you to use their APIs while offering to help out anyway they can and another that says sure we have this thing called Mantle you can use then never contacts you again or offer any kind of help, which of those company's APIs do you think you'd use in your game? I know I would be using Nvidias for no other reason than they were persistent and believed in their product enough to show me that it would make my life easier, while AMD seems to not really care. As far as the banners in the game, if after helping me out with using their API they came up and ask "could you put some banners on the tracks that advertise our product in game?" I would offer to do it for free especially if they helped out a good amount.

To me this is a just a clear case of negligence from AMD, which to me is no surprise. They make good hardware but their software side just, to put it mildly, sucks. There is a reason Nvidia has a 70% market share for video cards and it all has to do with how well they not only put out drivers, but engage developers. AMD sounds basically like a scorned suitor wondering why the girl never picks them. Simply put you're never going to get her if all you do is show up once in a while with something cool, and the other guy comes around constantly asking if she needs help and what he can do for her.
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Logic is there is proof they lied. AMD has been in communication with them and there is proof of that. PhysX is built directly into the game and cannot in anyway be disabled, that is a fact. PhysX is only properly supported on Nvidia GPU's, that is a fact. (CPU PhysX is not proper.) Force cpu PhysX with an Nvidia card installed and it runs as bad as the AMD card, that is a fact.

However, the dev came out and straight up said it is all the fault of AMD's drivers, that is a fact. They lied, that is a fact. PhysX does not and will not ever support AMD GPU's, that is a fact. Vendor lock in all you want but when you lie about it, you will get called out for it.

Edit: Basically, we should not be putting up with this type of stuff from other vendors but hey, it happens. Just do not lie about it and then claim innocence when you get caught. (I assume these devs are not 5 years old anymore or perhaps they are the result of kids getting a trophy for just showing up?)
 
cageymaru said:
Well to be honest there was no thought process for Mantle existing when the game was started in development. So that isn't relevant in this discussion. The developers did contemplate adding Mantle at one point and then never mentioned it again after Nvidia showcased them at the next month's video gaming tradeshow. They did talk smack about AMD on the Steam forums a year ago and let it be known that they didn't think their products were good.

If you look earlier in the thread I quoted where they worked with AMD all the way up to the failed March release. I'm sure that others noticed that they were dodging GTA V. :) Then just before this release they started talking again with AMD. Now is that a fail on AMD or SMS that a month was skipped? I blame both of them, but to be honest SMS is the one trying to sell more copies of their game. AMD can market DX12 and pretend Project Cars doesn't exist if they wanted to. In the end it is SMS that loses and that's just the way life is.

The fact that SMS was only able to get a 1% performance boost for a ton of work on AMD hardware says a lot. I think that Nvidia has to be doing some weird shit with GameWorks / developer suggestions and relations. I would like to see AMD do more for drivers. But why is it that only Nvidia backed titles have all the big glaring issues? Either it's Nvidia is suggesting that developers do stupid shit that in the end makes the game really hard for it to run on AMD, or AMD walks away from helping Nvidia backed titles and refuses to offer support.

Considering how much work is done with UBISOFT post release to get their Nvidia backed titles running correctly, I doubt the AMD refuses to work with Nvidia sponsored developers. We all know that GameWorks is an encrypted black box. It is what it is. I could care less what it is as long as the developers of games can use it correctly to make games that work on all hardware. And this is not the case most times. So in my opinion there is something inherently wrong with the way GameWorks operates. The tools that Nvidia sponsored developers are using has issues. This is obvious.

The last thought I have on the subject is that AMD's GCN architecture hasn't really changed much from launch. Their drivers get updated once every 3 months or more? So it's not like SMS was working against rogue driver code that was fluid and ever changing. The way AMD does things is well documented and easily available. There are no black boxes to decipher. That makes it ever more puzzling that SMS couldn't figure out how to make it work. Were they unable to find AMD hardware to run a test? People act like they were broadsided at the 11th hour with some new AMD tech that broke the game. :) These are the same video cards from October 24, 2013!

Also it is telling that Windows 10 can run the game at 20% to 50% more performance on AMD cards. That's most likely because the OS can deal with CPU bound situations much better than DX11. PhysX on the CPU is a hog? Maybe in an ideal world the game should have been a DX12 launch title. I am not suggesting that they should have waited as they have a team to pay and investors to reimburse. But it just seems like a case of desperately needing to get the product out now for 70% of the market to digest, and we'll fix the other camp's issues at a later date. That's just my personal opinion. I'm not saying that's what happened. But damn; this is how you treat your customers?
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Even though I'm currently on an nV card, I'm probably going to boycott this game, it's just silly for developers to behave this way, they're only hurting their own bottom line in the end.

considering this game runs fine on both XB1 and PS4, I don't see why it can't run well on PC with AMD hardware
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
Even though I'm currently on an nV card, I'm probably going to boycott this game, it's just silly for developers to behave this way, they're only hurting their own bottom line in the end.

Considering this game runs fine on both XB1 and PS4, I don't see why it can't run well on PC with AMD hardware
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I understand what you're saying, but I'm not calling for people to boycott the game. It is a fine game. I would say that it is a AAA+ title! AMD and SMS will work together to get it working in some form I'm sure. If I were an AMD user I would hold off until others say that's it's issues with AMD are fixed. I didn't enjoy when Nvidia users were waiting for Tomb Raider TressFX hair to get patched. I only wish that this had been done from the beginning.

If I were angry at SMS I would have asked for a refund long ago as I've been saying that the game is broken when you turn on the weather system for years on these very forums. :) So enjoy the game man. It's awesome!
 
cageymaru said:
I understand what you're saying, but I'm not calling for people to boycott the game. It is a fine game. I would say that it is a AAA+ title! AMD and SMS will work together to get it working in some form I'm sure. If I were an AMD user I would hold off until others say that's it's issues with AMD are fixed. I didn't enjoy when Nvidia users were waiting for Tomb Raider TressFX hair to get patched. I only wish that this had been done from the beginning.

If I were angry at SMS I would have asked for a refund long ago as I've been saying that the game is broken when you turn on the weather system for years on these very forums. :) So enjoy the game man. It's awesome!
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BOYCOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

I still won't buy it for now, when both camps have working cards, i might look at it again, or when it goes on sale :p
 
What anti aliasing settings do you guys have it at ?

I'm using MSAA and SMAA on Ultra. But I see other antialiasing settings like DX9x or some shit.

Any recommendations? The graphics isn't that good. I've got everything maxed out. I prefer Grid Autosports graphics at this stage.
 
My biggest gripe so far is the qualifying rounds. The AI posts some pretty decent lap times in the qualifying round, but when you get to the actual race they all derp it up and post times that are 10+ seconds worse. So the qualifying round is essentially pointless, but if you don't do it you get started dead last and have to claw your way to the front, which you can't always do.

So for a single event I'm doing a few qualifying laps, the real race, and then sometimes another race immediately after that. It gets repetitive and annoying.
 
Matthew Kane said:
What anti aliasing settings do you guys have it at ?

I'm using MSAA and SMAA on Ultra. But I see other antialiasing settings like DX9x or some shit.

Any recommendations? The graphics isn't that good. I've got everything maxed out. I prefer Grid Autosports graphics at this stage.
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I run AA on "High" (one click above MSAA) and SMAA on Ultra. The DS.. settings stand for downscaling. Why they didn't just call it SSAA is beyond me...

I think the lighting in PCARS makes the game look a whole lot better than Grid. This is just my opinion. The reflections combined with the illumination and saturation makes Grid Autosport look plastic.
 
Boycott Any SMS Game its not the first time they have pulled this stunt it wont be the last. these nvidia fanboys(sms studios) need to be taught a lesson.
 
Deathroned said:
Boycott Any SMS Game its not the first time they have pulled this stunt it wont be the last. these nvidia fanboys(sms studios) need to be taught a lesson.
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Yeah you sure teach them a lesson by not buying the game...you and all 5 other people who boycott.
 
I think I will be getting this this weekend... my new Fanatec Clubsport Shifter SQ 1.5 needs to be tested :)

I love Assetto Corsa (it has easily the best driving physics & FFB I've felt to date, and is truly a hardcore simulator) but the career mode is still pretty much nonexistant. Project Cars seems to be the other way around, in that it's not as hardcore sim but with more thought put into the career mode. Also, the day/night and weather system looks to be the best put in a racing game to date.
 
For those that have already purchased the game who are running AMD GPU's, what's the performance like? Is Crossfire functional at all? What settings are you having to use?
 
Armenius said:
I run AA on "High" (one click above MSAA) and SMAA on Ultra. The DS.. settings stand for downscaling. Why they didn't just call it SSAA is beyond me...

I think the lighting in PCARS makes the game look a whole lot better than Grid. This is just my opinion. The reflections combined with the illumination and saturation makes Grid Autosport look plastic.
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Ok I'll try those settings

Have you played Grid Autosport?
 
Got around to trying PCars this weekend.. overall I'm really liking it. The driving model is relaxed compared to Assetto Corsa or iRacing but it still behaves realistically overall. What I like best about it is that it has a solid career mode and feels like there's an actual GAME underneath all the racing, unlike AC which feels like a small collection of hand-built events.

edit: Just played some MP with accelerated time and variable weather... so awesome and tons of fun.
 
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