Price Of Solar Declining To Unprecedented Lows

[westrock2000]

The estimated ROI is about $15,000 over 25 years with my 6.36kW system. Lifetime roof penetration warranty, 25 year service warranty on the panels and 10 year service warranty on the inverter. Solar is much better than you think it is.

They need to standardize the numbers. For marketing it looks great, but 6KW of solar panel is no where near what people are thinking when look at their electric bill. When I was looking at my needs, which peak at about 2.2Kwh of AC in the summer, the equivalent solar systems were like the 6-10Kwh systems.

Plus they need to start incorporating a form of energy storage. Having to rely on utility every day from dawn to dusk kind of defeats the goals people are looking for.

 

[deadlift1]

The estimated ROI is about $15,000 over 25 years with my 6.36kW system. Lifetime roof penetration warranty, 25 year service warranty on the panels and 10 year service warranty on the inverter. Solar is much better than you think it is.

What happens when the manufacturer and/or retailer go out of business? The warranty means nothing.

 

[westrock2000]

What happens when the manufacturer and/or retailer go out of business? The warranty means nothing.

Back in the 90's / early 2000's there was this auto tint place by my parents. They had a big sign that said "Lifetime Warranty On All Tints". The sign was there for 15 years. Except every 2-3 years they would shut down for a month or so and re-open with a different name. But the same sign. I thought they were genius.

 

[c3k]

^^^
Yeah. ROI (Return on Investment) -IS- all anyone should think about before jumping on this, or any, bandwagon. If you are unfamiliar with the work, you should read "The Wealth of Nations", the seminal economic treatise by Adam Smith, circa 1776. The "invisible hand" of progress guides societies to "better" solutions, but only when individuals are free to engage in MUTUALLY profitable exchanges, not coerced into an exchange. Now, if -you- place a price on being "a good neighbor" (and you think strip-mining, clear-cutting, and mountain-lopping are better than drilling a little hole deep underground), then feel free to place that price on YOUR decision to go solar. Feel warm about yourself. That's okay. But it's a false feeling. Regardless, today's society seems to be all about "feeling", false or not, so I guess you're just peachy. Shrug.

Meantime, prices (when not warped by bungling bureaucrats and their governmental dictates) communicate to buyers and sellers what the market wants and what the market can provide. Is solar "good"? Not until it is cheaper than current energy sources.

ROI is a great metric for determining where one should allocate resources.

 

[Dayaks]

I wonder with low prices if it would be worth it to make an extended range vehicle with like the roof of solar. Even if it gets an extra 10 miles per charge it may be worth it as that adds up. Would be cool knowing that your car is getting some miles back just by it sitting in the parking lot.

Toyota didn't think it was worth it to do so. They had a solar roof on some models of the Prius. They only used it to run the car's ventilation fan on hot days. I guess it wasn't worth it to do a DC -> DC converter to 400 volts to charge the battery.

Might have been 1-2 miles per a day... which adds up.

 

[sfsuphysics]

Well. No. My friend installs solar panels here in SATX and he is a VERY licensed electrician. CPS is an old dusty power company that has many a hula hoop to jump through before you can hook up to their crusty old grid. So you can't just have anyone doing the work. He also has a Cisco cert and has been in the PC game for 15 years. I have had him install whole house backup gas generators and electrical and network runs also.

And I have multiple degrees in physics and mathematics, that makes me just about as qualified as his Cisco cert for hooking up solar panels

That said, either your friend works for a small company or one who doesn't know how to utilize talented people properly. As I mentioned here, simple laborers can install the framework, and the panels themselves, then a licensed electrician comes through to actually do the wiring and hooking up.

 

[phillyboy]

(edit - removed sidebar discussion about cheap labor - not worth it)

Anyways... give it five or ten years and solar panel prices will knock coal out of the picture, and since nuclear is a non-starter you'll be left with hydro, wind, solar and natural gas. Also people forget that we will continue to do energy research and come up with weird ass innovations like seen here:

Floating solar device boils water without mirrors

Another food for thought is grid storage, which IMO will come around whether or not solar or wind exists to help with grid reliability with our ever-increasing energy needs.

I used to work at a nuclear plant for seven years, and even though it pains me to see where things are it is a non-starter in today's economic environment. Natural gas eats it for lunch, solar and wind are less risky and costs are dropping year-over-year while nuclear costs haven't and won't ever get to the scale needed to do so.

The new construction nuclear plants needed twenty years for cost payback before the recession and fracking boom happened (I was at an NEI conference in D.C. when they were pushing loan guarantees to Congress and that is when the twenty-year payback was first advertised). This doesn't factor in whatever major design change that is bound to happen mid-construction from the NRC (and don't think it won't)

 

[sfsuphysics]

^^^
Yeah. ROI (Return on Investment) -IS- all anyone should think about before jumping on this, or any, bandwagon. If you are unfamiliar with the work, you should read "The Wealth of Nations", the seminal economic treatise by Adam Smith, circa 1776. The "invisible hand" of progress guides societies to "better" solutions, but only when individuals are free to engage in MUTUALLY profitable exchanges, not coerced into an exchange. Now, if -you- place a price on being "a good neighbor" (and you think strip-mining, clear-cutting, and mountain-lopping are better than drilling a little hole deep underground), then feel free to place that price on YOUR decision to go solar. Feel warm about yourself. That's okay. But it's a false feeling. Regardless, today's society seems to be all about "feeling", false or not, so I guess you're just peachy. Shrug.

Meantime, prices (when not warped by bungling bureaucrats and their governmental dictates) communicate to buyers and sellers what the market wants and what the market can provide. Is solar "good"? Not until it is cheaper than current energy sources.

ROI is a great metric for determining where one should allocate resources.

Little tiny hole dug DEEP under ground.

 

[phillyboy]

^^^
Yeah. ROI (Return on Investment) -IS- all anyone should think about before jumping on this, or any, bandwagon. If you are unfamiliar with the work, you should read "The Wealth of Nations", the seminal economic treatise by Adam Smith, circa 1776. The "invisible hand" of progress guides societies to "better" solutions, but only when individuals are free to engage in MUTUALLY profitable exchanges, not coerced into an exchange. Now, if -you- place a price on being "a good neighbor" (and you think strip-mining, clear-cutting, and mountain-lopping are better than drilling a little hole deep underground), then feel free to place that price on YOUR decision to go solar. Feel warm about yourself. That's okay. But it's a false feeling. Regardless, today's society seems to be all about "feeling", false or not, so I guess you're just peachy. Shrug.

Meantime, prices (when not warped by bungling bureaucrats and their governmental dictates) communicate to buyers and sellers what the market wants and what the market can provide. Is solar "good"? Not until it is cheaper than current energy sources.

ROI is a great metric for determining where one should allocate resources.

1776 free market circle-jerk aside, one should probably be looking at energy market stability if they want to make an investment in something that has a payout measured in decade(s). The example on the first page of energy prices going up 82% over fifteen years would be what I'm referring to, along with the very volatile oil and natural gas market where bankruptcies are waiting to happen any day now due to price suppression (from the free market -i.e. Saudi Arabia); the coal industry is also facing the same issues since China and India are not buying as much as they predicted (from the free market). When America's energy industry takes a shit in the next few years and all the oil money goes back to the middle east what are people going to think?

Your "free market" / invisible hand all but guarantees prices ebbs and flows and spikes and sinks over the next twenty years. Someone who puts solar panels up gets a hedge against that, however small that is. For me our electricity is at $0.07/kWh with a co-op utility so it is a non-starter here.

 

[c3k]

Little tiny hole dug DEEP under ground.

yep. Another "price". Of course, gallium mining (and treatment) makes this coal hole seem like nothing. (And where is this one located, I wonder?)

 

[Deleted member 126051]

The estimated ROI is about $15,000 over 25 years with my 6.36kW system. Lifetime roof penetration warranty, 25 year service warranty on the panels and 10 year service warranty on the inverter. Solar is much better than you think it is.

Again see my qualification for proper spec and installation being part of the equation.

Trying to use the same installation up here in Chicago would result in less-than-zero ROI.

It's not that solar is "much better than I think". It's that, if you fit the profile for an excellent solar install, you benefit.
Others see marginal to no benefit. And for everyone else it's mostly a waste of money.

I'm in the last category. My big savings would be realized by more efficient appliances, a more energy conscious computer, and LED lighting. The next rung down would be better insulation (the reason it's not first is my residence is partially earth-sheltered already).

That and Illinois's primary energy generation systems are clean coal and nuclear power. And the state's actually fairly over-built. So capacity isn't an issue, energy prices are generally low and most of the BIG infrastructure problems (which were more prevalent in the late 90's) have been fixed or worked around. That sort of environment seriously hamstrings anything more than vanity solar projects.

 

[Deleted member 126051]

You know, installing solar isn't just about YOUR ROI. It's about everyone, and each install helps the world just a bit more. Same thing with buying fuel efficient vehicles and appliances.

Oh. So it's "think of the children". Invest in THE LORD and money will come back to you brother! Please send your donations to The Church Of Solar HappyHappy! We need a new jet! THE LORD will provide!!!!"

If my ROI isn't neutral or better, I'm wasting money on inefficiently generated power.

And creation of solar panels is NOT carbon-neutral. It's just that all the pollution has been farmed out to those poor fuckers in China right now because China didn't give a shit about the environmental ramifications of uncontrolled rare earths mining.

 

[Ruoh]

Oh. So it's "think of the children". Invest in THE LORD and money will come back to you brother! Please send your donations to The Church Of Solar HappyHappy! We need a new jet! THE LORD will provide!!!!"

If my ROI isn't neutral or better, I'm wasting money on inefficiently generated power.

And creation of solar panels is NOT carbon-neutral. It's just that all the pollution has been farmed out to those poor fuckers in China right now because China didn't give a shit about the environmental ramifications of uncontrolled rare earths mining.

So, what, you'd rather ignore the options, say "fuck everyone else, it's not my fault the planet got this way" and continue on with the same bullshit we've been doing for the last couple hundred years?

 

[Deleted member 126051]

Your "free market" / invisible hand all but guarantees prices ebbs and flows and spikes and sinks over the next twenty years. Someone who puts solar panels up gets a hedge against that, however small that is. For me our electricity is at $0.07/kWh with a co-op utility so it is a non-starter here.

I dunno, that's a fairly expensive "hedge".

 

[phillyboy]

I would agree that if you are looking at solar then it should come after you update any old appliances and then re-evaluate it. The monthly savings on new HVAC equipment can be substantial.

When I lived in Ann Arbor we rented a 1200 sq. foot duplex half that still had the original furnace from the 1970s. Our winter heating bill average $200-$225 / month. When we moved to Chelsea it was to a 1700 sq. foot house with a furnace that was twelve years old. Our winter gas bill dropped to $125 / month.

This is with the same provider for natural gas (DTE). I don't remember how far off the two were in terms of cost/BTU but given the close proximity to the two cities I would guess that they are pretty in line with each other.

 

[phillyboy]

I dunno, that's a fairly expensive "hedge".

I do agree that it is expensive hedge and a non-starter for most. My area doesn't work financially, but what about deregulated energy markets in California or Texas?

This is such a per-application thing that what most people pontificate in this thread doesn't mean a damn thing until you look at the bottom line savings.

 

[Deleted member 126051]

So, what, you'd rather ignore the options, say "fuck everyone else, it's not my fault the planet got this way" and continue on with the same bullshit we've been doing for the last couple hundred years?

No. I'd rather put my money into something that's actually going to help.

Installing a feel good solution, especially when nobody else is, accomplishes somewhere between jack and shit.

 

[Tsumi]

You know, installing solar isn't just about YOUR ROI. It's about everyone, and each install helps the world just a bit more. Same thing with buying fuel efficient vehicles and appliances.

Nope. For most people, when it comes to their wallet, it is all about whether or not it is worth it for them. Unless you are so insecure that you have to throw money at "good" causes to feel better about yourself. Or you're just so rich you don't care about some wasted money and it is good PR.

So, what, you'd rather ignore the options, say "fuck everyone else, it's not my fault the planet got this way" and continue on with the same bullshit we've been doing for the last couple hundred years?

I would rather invest in things that work. Solar right now does not work without some sort of massive energy storage system. Those steam-based powerplants cannot reduce and raise their power output on demand, any power you're not using is run into the ground. Dams are great for ondemand power, but they have limited usage area and have significant environmental impact.

Solar tech is here now and improving everyday, great. Solar tech has hidden environmental impacts, not so great. The power distribution isn't set up to efficiently use solar, bad. Without improvements in other tech, solar cannot be used as a replacement power source, also bad.

 

[Ruoh]

No. I'd rather put my money into something that's actually going to help.

Installing a feel good solution, especially when nobody else is, accomplishes somewhere between jack and shit.

And the cycle continues.

 

[Deleted member 126051]

I do agree that it is expensive hedge and a non-starter for most. My area doesn't work financially, but what about deregulated energy markets in California or Texas?

This is such a per-application thing that what most people pontificate in this thread doesn't mean a damn thing until you look at the bottom line savings.

Agreed, the actual full-install scenario DOES matter.

As for California, considering they're a shining, throbbing, nails-on-a-chalkboard-at-50,000-decibels model of how NOT to deregulate a power market...

Even so, Illinois is just under 12 cents per KWH (this is what I'm paying). That includes Supply, Delivery and Taxes. And Illinois is deregulated for electricity (with a pilot program for gas deregulation).
IIRC, California is just under 16 (probably fluctuates with locality, time of day, etc). And California had to suspend their deregulation because of the ham-handed first attempt and the ruinously insane system-gaming it triggered.

 

[Deleted member 126051]

And the cycle continues.

Try to think about it LOGICALLY.

If you're one guy in ten thousand who implements, even if it costs you more, what help to the environment are you? REALLY?

Basically your positive impact is essentially COMPLETELY offset...ONE HUNDRED FOLD! Basically the tiny difference you make MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.

So, you're making no difference and you're spending MORE.

Whereas, if you:

* Reinsulate your house
* Move to newer, more energy-efficient appliances (refrigerator, washer, dryer, dishwasher) and environmental service equipment (HVAC, smart meter, etc)
* Move to more energy-efficient lighting

You still make a minimal impact BY YOURSELF. But you're now saving money every month. And, unlike solar panels, you're guaranteed to offset and eventually achieve a real ROI.

And when you talk to your neighbor, you can show them that proper investment makes them money in the long run. Rather than just shitting it down a hole.

 

[Deleted member 126051]

Solar tech is here now and improving everyday, great. Solar tech has hidden environmental impacts, not so great. The power distribution isn't set up to efficiently use solar, bad. Without improvements in other tech, solar cannot be used as a replacement power source, also bad.

It's going to take a major re-engineering of the power grid (at local, regional, state and national levels) to make accepting power from intermittent renewable sources a really and truly viable endeavor in the end.

 

[Ruoh]

Try to think about it LOGICALLY.

If you're one guy in ten thousand who implements, even if it costs you more, what help to the environment are you? REALLY?

Basically your positive impact is essentially COMPLETELY offset...ONE HUNDRED FOLD! Basically the tiny difference you make MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.

So, you're making no difference and you're spending MORE.

Whereas, if you:

* Reinsulate your house
* Move to newer, more energy-efficient appliances (refrigerator, washer, dryer, dishwasher) and environmental service equipment (HVAC, smart meter, etc)
* Move to more energy-efficient lighting

You still make a minimal impact BY YOURSELF. But you're now saving money every month. And, unlike solar panels, you're guaranteed to offset and eventually achieve a real ROI.

And when you talk to your neighbor, you can show them that proper investment makes them money in the long run. Rather than just shitting it down a hole.

That's the point. Why is it so goddamn hard for people to wrap their head around the concept that SOMEONE has to start the cycle. The same mindset of "Noone else is, why should I" has caused so many problems it's insanity.

If you're the type of person to go solar in the first place, you are very likely to have ALREADY done each of the things on your list.

 

[westrock2000]

So, what, you'd rather ignore the options, say "fuck everyone else, it's not my fault the planet got this way" and continue on with the same bullshit we've been doing for the last couple hundred years?

If we all lived the way you wanted, I'd be kickin back on my plantation on Mars banging the finest women Neptune has to offer.

 

[Deleted member 126051]

Another little factoid here.

Carbon footprint (lifetime) on a per-KWH basis.

Hydro: 2-48 grams
Nuclear: 2-59 grams
Wind: 7-124 grams
Solar (Photovoltaic): 7-731 grams (Depends on whether it's rooftop PV, utility scale PV or solar thermal (from highest to lowest)).
Natural Gas: 389-551 (And did we mention that most solar and wind facilities are actually Solar+NG and Wind+NG, and that in some cases it's fair to say that they're actually NG+Solar and NG+Wind?)

If you don't believe me, take a look at Ivanpah Solar Power Plant.

The amount of natural gas they use just heating the boilers up before the solar cells come online for the day is enough to generate 124,000 GWH (yeah, GIGAWattHours) of power in a normal gas facility.

Solar's in interesting technology, with some good use-cases. But it is NOT a panacea.

 

[Deleted member 126051]

That's the point. Why is it so goddamn hard for people to wrap their head around the concept that SOMEONE has to start the cycle. The same mindset of "Noone else is, why should I" has caused so many problems it's insanity.

If you're the type of person to go solar in the first place, you are very likely to have ALREADY done each of the things on your list.

First off. You want to be the first lemming off the cliff?

Second, and what you're STILL refusing to understand, is that there are better ways to spend the money that yield better results as far as power consumption and produce better up-stream carbon footprint reduction. And these benefits can be realized by pretty much EVERYONE (outside of those with brand new, very-energy-efficient houses). Rather than just a few people living in the right geographical area where solar actually makes sense.

 

[Deleted member 126051]

If we all lived the way you wanted, I'd be kickin back on my plantation on Mars banging the finest women Neptune has to offer.

Well, it's an imperfect world. You're just going to have to kick back wherever you are right now and bang the finest women Neptune has to offer.

Population of Neptune: 0

Well done!

 

[DWolvin]

Ivanpah is a bad example- that place is a test that has never worked as well as planned, and is breaking all of their own promises trying to meet contracted energy output to prevent going into default. It's like blaming Cummings for the VW scandal...

It's really simple, run the numbers and see if it works. I have already grabbed the low hanging fruit, and putting 3.5Kw on my roof lets me run the meter at about zero despite Folding@Home. My ROI was estimated to be just under 8 years, but SDG&E had raised my rates every single year, so my break even point ended up being under 6. I now pay less than $50 a year in electricity and have long since payed off the solar. Might not work in all areas, but worth a check.

 

[Burticus]

I like the idea of solar and I see panels popping up on roofs all over the place here in Plano TX. I just don't have $20-30k to throw down that rabbit hole right now, I've spent almost double that this year in other home improvements. I did replace my ancient HVAC though and that cut my electric bill down by at least half or more. That will pay for itself in 5-6 years or so at this rate.

If panels suddenly got super cheap and I could do it for under $10k (which is basically the cost of a new roof, which I know because it just happened) I might be swayed.

 

[Deleted whining member 223597]

So, what, you'd rather ignore the options, say "fuck everyone else, it's not my fault the planet got this way" and continue on with the same bullshit we've been doing for the last couple hundred years?

Investing in a shitty technology that will never be efficient enough to be worthwhile isn't the solution.

 

[Tsumi]

That's the point. Why is it so goddamn hard for people to wrap their head around the concept that SOMEONE has to start the cycle. The same mindset of "Noone else is, why should I" has caused so many problems it's insanity.

If you're the type of person to go solar in the first place, you are very likely to have ALREADY done each of the things on your list.

Solar technology won't do anything to solve our problems, not on its own. Significant progress will have to be made in other areas to make solar power work. The only thing buying solar now accomplishes is feeling good about yourself if you don't know how much environmental damage is caused by manufacturing solar panels, and saving money for those people where it does actually save them money. Maybe it'll reduce some carbon emissions if it is used for charging electric cars, but that is about it.

 

[nutzo]

My area doesn't work financially, but what about deregulated energy markets in California or Texas?

California deregulated?

California has one of the most over regulated energy markets in the country, along with some of the highest prices.

Years ago they tried something called deregulation, but it wasn't. They regulated what the utilities could charge, while letting the production cost float at market prices. Instead it let the producers game the market, because the utilities where forced to pay whatever they where charging. Meanwhile the utilities couldn't pass on the higher costs. Almost bankrupted the utilities.
Of course city owned utilities like in LA where exempt, and they gamed the system even more than the private producers did, turning huge profits before the state "un-deregulated" the system.

 

[pcgeekesq]

So, what, you'd rather ignore the options, say "fuck everyone else, it's not my fault"

You realize that there's only maybe 100 adults on earth who don't at least think that?
And 50 of those 100 are lunatics.

Self interest is the only real interest. Anyone who says different is lying, either to you or to themselves.

 

[Deleted member 126051]

California deregulated?

California has one of the most over regulated energy markets in the country, along with some of the highest prices.

Years ago they tried something called deregulation, but it wasn't. They regulated what the utilities could charge, while letting the production cost float at market prices. Instead it let the producers game the market, because the utilities where forced to pay whatever they where charging. Meanwhile the utilities couldn't pass on the higher costs. Almost bankrupted the utilities.
Of course city owned utilities like in LA where exempt, and they gamed the system even more than the private producers did, turning huge profits before the state "un-deregulated" the system.

Exactly, the "deregulated", but froze the price of energy for a number of years.

It destroyed several power companies out there.

 

[Deleted member 126051]

Ivanpah is a bad example- that place is a test that has never worked as well as planned, and is breaking all of their own promises trying to meet contracted energy output to prevent going into default. It's like blaming Cummings for the VW scandal...

It's really simple, run the numbers and see if it works. I have already grabbed the low hanging fruit, and putting 3.5Kw on my roof lets me run the meter at about zero despite Folding@Home. My ROI was estimated to be just under 8 years, but SDG&E had raised my rates every single year, so my break even point ended up being under 6. I now pay less than $50 a year in electricity and have long since payed off the solar. Might not work in all areas, but worth a check.

Hey, don't get me wrong. If solar works for your case, ROCK THAT SHIT AND ROCK IT HARD!

Just acknowledge that there are a lot of people for whom solar doesn't provide the energy consumption freedom and cost benefits you currently enjoy.

 

[mope54]

It's very strange to see someone from LA arguing that Southern Californian systems don't make sense. I'm glad someone from San Diego spoke up. I'm east of SD and our rates are about 1/3 of theirs and it still made sense to put a 6K system on our condo (HOA, and *no* they can't simply tell me to take it down any time they want). We already have an EV (eGolf) and upgraded all our appliances and lights. Didn't mess with the A/C, that would have been around $6-8K to crane one up to the second story and it wouldn't have been all that more efficient. Those of you saying your newer models cut your bill by half must have had some ancient ones because mine is from the late 80's and it's no where near as inefficient as what you seem to have had.

I watched them install the system and aside from there being no freaking way I was about to climb on a 30deg pitched roof (went up to service my A/C one year and felt like freaking spider man and crawled back down 20 minutes later never trying that again), but they also dealt with all the stupid permits and nonsense. Our co-op utility company's board are 80 years old or something and screwed this year's new installs out of net metering, but I still am going to break even under 10 years.

Either LA's rates are a lot lower than I assumed or some people might be relying on what they think they know rather than what is reality. $2.75/watt seems really nice, though. Our system was $17K before incentives and that's including a $2500 200A service upgrade and two 50A EVSE outlets and some other odds and ends in the garage (whole house surge protector, extra 120v outlets near the door, etc.). That was for a solaredge system with power optimizers per panel.

And as for the free market speaking let me tell you what it looks like out here in the desert: acres and acres of private company MWatt systems, which pisses me off to no end. History has been pretty clear that some of the most resource rich places also become the most shittiest places to live around and poorest for those closest. But rather than the utility companies being on the forefront they lease the land out to private companies for pennies on the dollar who then build out these huge systems and sell it off to the coastal areas. I learned long ago to disregard the opinions of people citing Smith who then go on to say something that indicates they never actually cracked the damn book.

 

[nutzo]

It's very strange to see someone from LA arguing that Southern Californian systems don't make sense. I'm glad someone from San Diego spoke up. I'm east of SD and our rates are about 1/3 of theirs and it still made sense to put a 6K system on our condo (HOA, and *no* they can't simply tell me to take it down any time they want). We already have an EV (eGolf) and upgraded all our appliances and lights. Didn't mess with the A/C, that would have been around $6-8K to crane one up to the second story and it wouldn't have been all that more efficient. Those of you saying your newer models cut your bill by half must have had some ancient ones because mine is from the late 80's and it's no where near as inefficient as what you seem to have had.

My furnace/blower was over 40 years old , and the AC compressor was around 23 years old. The compressor was one of the more efficient designs when it was put in by the previous owners, so I doubt yours is any more efficient.

AC compressors usually last around 20 years, so if yours is original, you are pushing 30 years, and will likely need to replace it soon.
The biggest problem is that there have been so many changes in the AC business over the past 20 years, that is you have any major part fail, you will likely have to replace the entire system.

FYI: My old system was rated at a SEER 11 (and considering the age it was likely running at a much lower number). My new system is rated as SEER 18, so yes, it takes about half the power of the old system. I also sealed the intake and reworked some of the ducts eliminating a lot leaks, further improving the system.

I do have a relative that installed solar, and it made sense for him. He has a larger house and a pool. His electric bills where running $300+/month, so he has a decent payback period.
As for me, except for a few months during the summer, my bills are less than $90/month, so the numbers don't work for me.

 

[DeChache]

I keep watching the solar market and keep thinking that I would like to add enough to offset the A/C unit during peak hours and maybe the homelab.

But before I get to that point I'm re-insulating the entire house and making sure its sealed. I'm hoping the solar makes sense in the ~5 years it will take to get all that done. And this is mostly me being cheap as my utility will be 90% Wind powered by 2020.

I'm in the camp of Wind/Nuclear as base power and Solar for peak draw during the day. The energy market is going to change drastically in the next decade. I personally want to see more smaller local power stations instead of the giant regional ones we have now.

 

[DWolvin]

I keep watching the solar market and keep thinking that I would like to add enough to offset the A/C unit during peak hours and maybe the homelab.

But before I get to that point I'm re-insulating the entire house and making sure its sealed. I'm hoping the solar makes sense in the ~5 years it will take to get all that done. And this is mostly me being cheap as my utility will be 90% Wind powered by 2020.

I'm in the camp of Wind/Nuclear as base power and Solar for peak draw during the day. The energy market is going to change drastically in the next decade. I personally want to see more smaller local power stations instead of the giant regional ones we have now.

Truth. And in another 5 years solar will be at least 30~ish% cheaper, if it keeps dropping the way it has.

It's strange how much people get spun up over solar, my last business trip I had a wealthy and loud person droning on about how it was a fraud/conspiracy, and doesn't really work anyway. After a couple of hour I finally asked if their money was oil, or if that person was just ignorant. Much huffing and sputtering ensued but I just mentioned that I (at that time) was running my meter backwards for the price if a cheap car, and every place in America has that much power available. Hell, Germany pulled over 50% solar last year and has about 55% of the solar energy available per square area. It might not be the best choice for everyone all the time (yet), but it's getting better every year.

 

[Deleted whining member 223597]

Truth. And in another 5 years solar will be at least 30~ish% cheaper, if it keeps dropping the way it has.

It's strange how much people get spun up over solar, my last business trip I had a wealthy and loud person droning on about how it was a fraud/conspiracy, and doesn't really work anyway. After a couple of hour I finally asked if their money was oil, or if that person was just ignorant. Much huffing and sputtering ensued but I just mentioned that I (at that time) was running my meter backwards for the price if a cheap car, and every place in America has that much power available. Hell, Germany pulled over 50% solar last year and has about 55% of the solar energy available per square area. It might not be the best choice for everyone all the time (yet), but it's getting better every year.

Well it's true, it's a shitty technology. You will always be hampered by weather conditions and there are limits to the efficiency and cost. I'm not taking this from some random "rich business" guy either, this is based on a professor who actually does research and knows the industry. The only reason solar is even semi affordable is because the government subsidizes it.