President Says He Can't Pardon Edward Snowden

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During an interview with Der Spiegel, the President said that he can't pardon Edward Snowden until he has gone before the courts. Plenty of people have been pardoned in the past without standing trial so, at least in this case, I think "can't" means "won't."

I can't pardon somebody who hasn't gone before a court and presented themselves, so that's not something that I would comment on at this point. I think that Mr. Snowden raised some legitimate concerns. How he did it was something that did not follow the procedures and practices of our intelligence community. If everybody took the approach that I make my own decisions about these issues, then it would be very hard to have an organized government or any kind of national security system. At the point at which Mr. Snowden wants to present himself before the legal authorities and make his arguments or have his lawyers make his arguments, then I think those issues come into play. Until that time, what I've tried to suggest -- both to the American people, but also to the world -- is that we do have to balance this issue of privacy and security.
 
I won't do it either when my approval ratings are high.
That's a good way to have the naysayers call you a traitor to your country. As if that hasn't been said enough.
 
Lets see if he remembers that when people push him to give Hillary a preemptive pardon.

BTW, this is settled law. SCOTUS has dealt with it in the past - 1860-something IIRC - the President can pardon anyone of any crime whether or not charged. The only thing he can't do is pardon crimes that haven't happened yet.

So yes - his "I can't" really does translate into "I won't".
 
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Bandalo said:
I think if Snowden had been a little more selective about what he took and who he gave it to, this would be a very different story.
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Agreed, and I think Steve is incorrect about the pardon thing;

A pardon is a government decision to allow a person who has been convicted of a crime, to be free and absolved of that conviction, as if never convicted.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon


Had they tried Snowden in absentia then the President could follow up with a Pardon should he choose to. But I think it's very unlikely if Snowden doesn't do as the man says and present himself to authorities.
 
So wait if he says he can't pardon Snowden cause he hasn't been before a court, that means he can't pardon Hillary. Come on really we know Obama is so full of it.

lcpiper said:
Agreed, and I think Steve is incorrect about the pardon thing;


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon


Had they tried Snowden in absentia then the President could follow up with a Pardon should he choose to. But I think it's very unlikely if Snowden doesn't do as the man says and present himself to authorities.
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From own linked article.
"A presidential pardon may be granted at any time, however, and as when Ford pardoned Nixon, the pardoned person need not yet have been convicted or even formally charged with a crime."
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As i just said above and this proves Obama is full of it.
 
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I don't think ol' Nixon was even charged before receiving his pardon.
 
He's simply not pardonable. By anyone. Ever. For any reason.

Not gonna happen. Ever.
 
Of course he can pardon anyone - at any time - charged or not. Quoted from here: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_.../2008/07/preemptive_presidential_pardons.html

Slate said:
In 1866, the Supreme Court ruled in Ex parte Garland that the pardon power "extends to every offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken, or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment." (In that case, a former Confederate senator successfully petitioned the court to uphold a pardon that prevented him from being disbarred.) Generally speaking, once an act has been committed, the president can issue a pardon at any time—regardless of whether charges have even been filed.
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For those who like to read more rigorous treatment: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/71/333.html
 
I can't see him ever getting a pardon. I think it would send a message telling anyone else in the intelligence communities that copying files and handing them to the press is A-OK by us. That's why I doubt he'll ever get a pardon.
 
Arbit3r said:
So wait if he says he can't pardon Snowden cause he hasn't been before a court, that means he can't pardon Hillary. Come on really we know Obama is so full of it.


From own linked article.


As i just said above and this proves Obama is full of it.
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Ahh, very good. I relent, you are correct and I mistaken. I should have read my source more thoroughly.
 
Shotglass01 said:
I can't see him ever getting a pardon. I think it would send a message telling anyone else in the intelligence communities that copying files and handing them to the press is A-OK by us. That's why I doubt he'll ever get a pardon.
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And I also agree here. Had Snowden been far more careful about what he took and who he gave it too then I could see a more lenient response. But as it is I don't think he can avoid a trial and time should he return.
 
He exposed too many of the ruling class, and the servant class now live off cozy mercenary jobs here and overseas, they'll bend the knee as long as they're fed. So the lesson is don't cross your masters, it's way too late to be a hero lol.
 
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If he showed up on american soil, he would be dead within 24hrs.

No trial. No lawyers. He pissed off the wrong people.
 
Shotglass01 said:
I can't see him ever getting a pardon. I think it would send a message telling anyone else in the intelligence communities that copying files and handing them to the press is A-OK by us. That's why I doubt he'll ever get a pardon.
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That's exactly why it can't be done. The guy jumped on a spy-shit hand grenade, and it basically killed him as to being safe in the US ever again.
 
TechLarry said:
That's exactly why it can't be done. The guy jumped on a spy-shit hand grenade, and it basically killed him as to being safe in the US ever again.
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He's perfectly "safe", as in I highly doubt anyone is going to physically harm him. No matter what all the people say about him being an assassination target. He would be immediately arrested thought, and probably spend the rest of his life in jail. Which is what happens when you leak US spy stuff to foreign governments.
 
Steve said:
I can't pardon somebody who hasn't gone before a court and presented themselves, so that's not something that I would comment on at this point. I think that Mr. Snowden raised some legitimate concerns. How he did it was something that did not follow the procedures and practices of our intelligence community. If everybody took the approach that I make my own decisions about these issues, then it would be very hard to have an organized government or any kind of national security system. At the point at which Mr. Snowden wants to present himself before the legal authorities and make his arguments or have his lawyers make his arguments, then I think those issues come into play. Until that time, what I've tried to suggest -- both to the American people, but also to the world -- is that we do have to balance this issue of privacy and security.
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Bullshit.

President Ford pardoned Nixon for the Watergate scandal, and Nixon never stepped inside a court for his misdeeds.

With President Nixon's resignation, Congress dropped its impeachment proceedings. Criminal prosecution was still a possibility both on the federal and state level. Nixon was succeeded by Vice President Gerald Ford as President, who on September 8, 1974, issued a full and unconditional pardon of Nixon, immunizing him from prosecution for any crimes he had "committed or may have committed or taken part in" as president.
 
/usr/sbin said:
Bullshit.

President Ford pardoned Nixon for the Watergate scandal, and Nixon never stepped inside a court for his misdeeds.

With President Nixon's resignation, Congress dropped its impeachment proceedings. Criminal prosecution was still a possibility both on the federal and state level. Nixon was succeeded by Vice President Gerald Ford as President, who on September 8, 1974, issued a full and unconditional pardon of Nixon, immunizing him from prosecution for any crimes he had "committed or may have committed or taken part in" as president.
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if he couldn't then wouldn't have people calling for him to pardon Clinton right now.
 
/usr/sbin said:
Bullshit.

President Ford pardoned Nixon for the Watergate scandal, and Nixon never stepped inside a court for his misdeeds.

With President Nixon's resignation, Congress dropped its impeachment proceedings. Criminal prosecution was still a possibility both on the federal and state level. Nixon was succeeded by Vice President Gerald Ford as President, who on September 8, 1974, issued a full and unconditional pardon of Nixon, immunizing him from prosecution for any crimes he had "committed or may have committed or taken part in" as president.
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It actually a sticky situation. Impeachment although is a trail is a process that blocks presidential pardons and circumvents the federal courts. Afaik the president can pardon someone convicted though impeachment. If congress could argue jurisdiction they could have tried to bring nixon to trail after the fact. That being said once Nixon steps down it would have been the function of the attorney general to bring him to federal court, an executive order could have nulled that anyways. Doesn't actually mean a pardon would be legal, as another administration could challenge a previous administration will. Given a pardon actually only functions if the person pardon accepts it. Legal and functional pardon are two different things, they just haven't been challenged in court yet because it would require another administration to dig up the past. So far no one has been so callous to do so.
 
I'm sure he'll live a comfy life in Russia. The truth is Russia isn't half bad as long as you learn the language. In the end he got the last laugh. The democrats can blame hate, angry white folk, face book, twitter, fake news all they want. The truth is Snowden happened during Obamas terms and proved to many that they where a big part of the" establishment" that has been spying on or building the capability to spy on anyones every move. Eving going as far as breaking their own self serving laws to do it. So when you loose an election where the 3rd string states collage votes matter... it means you lost just enough votes in the major cities to matter. IMO Trump has Snowden to thank... who knows perhaps he'll pardon him.... ok perhaps not considering he has previous stated he deserves death. Still he owes his surprise win in no small part to him.
 
Has any President pardoned anyone who has fled the country and not come back? I think that's the criteria that Snowden is failing here. Nixon, for example, was not attempting to flee the country.
 
evilsofa said:
Has any President pardoned anyone who has fled the country and not come back? I think that's the criteria that Snowden is failing here. Nixon, for example, was not attempting to flee the country.
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Nixon wasn't facing the death penalty.
 
PigLover said:
Lets see if he remembers that when people push him to give Hillary a preemptive pardon.

BTW, this is settled law. SCOTUS has dealt with it in the past - 1860-something IIRC - the President can pardon anyone of any crime whether or not charged. The only thing he can't do is pardon crimes that haven't happened yet.

So yes - his "I can't" really does translate into "I won't".
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She will not be found guilty of anything (assuming the trumpster actually follows through with his lock her up hype, which is unlikely). But I agree, you don't have to be convicted of jack. The one case that I remember this happening is when bush gave a full pardon to Casper Weinberger http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/06/29/reviews/iran-pardon.html
 
There are still lots of people claiming Obama's birth certificate is fake so what comes around may go around. It also looks like the Clintons were part of a pedo ring, but even Trump was/is friends with the guy that ran the Lolita Express.
 
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So let me get this straight - In order to pardon you so we don't lynch you - I first need you to go to the lynching site.

How retarded do you think Snowden is?

I'm not a liberal, and I haven't hated on Obama that much - but this is hands down one of THE dumbest statements of all time. It's damn near equivalent to Bush's "Fool me once" screw up.
 
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nilepez said:
She will not be found guilty of anything (assuming the trumpster actually follows through with his lock her up hype, which is unlikely). But I agree, you don't have to be convicted of jack. The one case that I remember this happening is when bush gave a full pardon to Casper Weinberger http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/06/29/reviews/iran-pardon.html
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Actually, it's quite clear that Secretary Clinton broke the law on many occasions with her lazy handling of classified material. That is not in question in the least. Nor do the statutes involved require mens rea (intention or knowledge of wrongdoing). So strictly speaking, if she were brought to trial, and the jury were to follow the law as written, she would be convicted.

On a practical level, though, that wouldn't happen. It would be really hard to seat an impartial jury, given how politically charged our current country is.
 
buhbuhfet said:
Exposing government corruption and lawlessness is treason? Genius
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x2

Snowden is a patriot. He exposed our government doing some pretty underhanded and unlawful stuff that we NEVER would of known otherwise. It gave us a black eye, but we (and more so, our "leaders") deserved it.
 
Wierdo said:
He exposed too many of the ruling class, and the servant class now live off cozy mercenary jobs here and overseas, they'll bend the knee as long as they're fed. So the lesson is don't cross your masters, it's way too late to be a hero lol.
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The ruling and servant classes huh? No hope of reality intruding on your world view is there?
 
Bandalo said:
He's perfectly "safe", as in I highly doubt anyone is going to physically harm him. No matter what all the people say about him being an assassination target. He would be immediately arrested thought, and probably spend the rest of his life in jail. Which is what happens when you leak US spy stuff to foreign governments.
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They joked about having him killed. I doubt they would ever find his body though. he would be incarcerated for the rest of his life.
 
lcpiper said:
The ruling and servant classes huh? No hope of reality intruding on your world view is there?
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Hey you can dress it up any way that makes you feel better down there, but the world will keep doing its own thing regardless lol.

All I'm saying is we're not that different today than we were in feudal days, just the presentation and marketing around it got better, newer media requires better propaganda and censorship tools to keep the cogs in check.

Peasants obsessed with the royal court's "proper etiquette" instead of the actual transgressions at hand, hard hitting issues right there.
 
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