HardOCP News
[H] News
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Free e-books for low-income kids is cool and all but how many of those kids have the devices they need to actually read the books?
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President Announcing Free E-Books For Low-Income Kids
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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illram
[H]ard|Gawd
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God forbid we give kids actual paper books.
fairlane
Limp Gawd
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"Kids will need computers and devices to read the e-books. Zients noted the White House had previously announced programs to upgrade Internet services for schools and libraries, with private sector help from companies including Apple, which pledged $100 million in devices to low-income schools."
I think more importantly, will the kids actually read those books? Apple is donating money for devices to read the books, but there's nothing that says the kids will read those titles the publishers are offering.. As a librarian myself, we loan iPads to kids in the building, but I can certainly tell you they're not reading ebooks on them...
A print book won't let them surf the web but again, nothing is ensuring that they'll read the book...except themselves..
Have you not seen the number of these kids and their parents - using their food stamps all the while talking or texting on their iPhone? It's damn outrageous. More "free" shit paid by taxpayers that also pads the bottom line of some publishing corporation. Though at least as long as it's limited to educational titles society might at least benefit from it somewhat which is more than I can say for "obama phones" (yes, I know he didn't start the program).
DarkStar_WNY
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Next up, the Obama iPad.
JacobC1983
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More free shit to low income families. Yippee.
JacobC1983
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I remember this weird thing called a library. Anybody heard of it?
kbrickley
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According to the article this appears to be a program to make the ebooks available to the libraries and to the kids through the libraries ... because of copyright considerations I don't think the ebooks are as widely in use in libraries as regular books yet so maybe this initiative is more targeted at that
It goes along with a related proposal to get 99% of school aged kids access to the Internets. It doesn't really take much hardware to read an eBook. Most phones are capable of it, and there are some prepaid models in the $30 range that come with Android and WiFi, where cell service isn't needed to use in on WiFi.
cp_kirkley
Limp Gawd
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And yet you still find it appropriate to specifically link Obama to the program, and not Clinton (who started Lifelink in 96) or Bush who oversaw its expansion to cover cellphones, lol.
Furthermore, libraries in lower income neighborhoods are mostly underfunded dumps. not to mention an old, antiquated model that is more expensive for a municipality to maintain yearly (property upkeep and utilites) than a low-end server that probably already exists and just needs to setup to do the task.
Complaining that poor people don't use libraries is goddamned silly. When was the last time you used one? I havent in close to 5 years, not because I don't read, but due to the proximity (or lack of) and the convenience of simply paying a few bucks a year for accessto a decent online distributor.
D
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FREE free free free FREE free free free FREE FREE FREE FREE free free free free . . .
99% of what Obama does is intedned to be subversive. I have zero doubt this will be about slipping garbage to kids. CPUSA, GLESN, CAIR, Muslim Brotherhood etc already have their lists handed in. There will be talk of US "values" and "great novels" but those will jist be camo.
I like how you automatically assume that everyone using foodstamps is part of the permanently poor intentional leeches on society. You should be aware that sometimes people fall into temporary problems and need a little help and may of had that stuff before hard times. Also before the idiotic argument comes out of "well why don't they sell all that stuff?" Just because someone falls in to some temporary bad times, perhaps an unexpected lost job or their house burned down or who knows what, doesn't mean they suddenly have to sell everything of value they own and wear nothing but rags.
DarkStar_WNY
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Yes many people do fall into temporary hard times, but many also sit back and leech off the taxpayer instead of actually doing anything for themselves. This statement comes not from some story I'd heard 3rd or 4th hand but by seeing it first hand in my area, and it's only getting worse.
bigstusexy
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UGH! Caught myself about to be very confrontation:
Devices are cheap, you only need a 3 to 4 year old phone or ipod touch. There is free wifi at many places and thanks to things like E-rate, the ability for good access at schools. They may even mandate that we setup hotspots for such a thing.
Devices are cheap, you only need a 3 to 4 year old phone or ipod touch. There is free wifi at many places and thanks to things like E-rate, the ability for good access at schools. They may even mandate that we setup hotspots for such a thing.
kbrickley
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One additional note ... companies sell ebooks, just as they sell regular books ... perhaps this is a partnership that will allow more loanable copies of ebooks at libraries (the article was short on the details) ... for physical copies, libraries had to buy each copy and could only loan what they purchased ... ebooks are essentially an unlimited supply but the publisher still has to be paid for each time the book is loaned or for a fixed amount of digital copies that limits the total number of copies that can be loaned at a given time ... if they have worked out a deal with publishers to make more loanable copies available to inner city libraries that would be a good thing 
rat
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Not really. Republicans are too busy trying to shut them all down.
CreepyUncleGoogle
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Actually, my local county library system (which is in a really backwards, rural kinda area full of bumpkins and hillbillies that still do that chewing tobacco thing) has an ebook system available through the library website where you can download automagically expiring ebooks that you get to read for like two weeks after you check them out. It's pretty awesome and doesn't cost anything for anyone of any income so the social elite like me can still use it despite not working for minimum wage or listening to country music.
oh really? cutting federal funding is not the same as trying to shut them down.
Much of the funding for public libraries should be coming from the local community
flashoverride
Limp Gawd
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Fixed that for you. Nothing is free.
kbrickley
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There is probably a benefit to the federal government helping with some consolidated purchases to facilitate better economies of scale pricing ... and since the feds regulate the publishers business they have more bargaining power with them than individual states do ... but certainly the buildings and choice of books to include in the library should be made locally ... that said, I think outside of Universities, the Library of Congress, and a few private libraries (like the Kindle library), libraries are one of those government conventions that will eventually die out I think (unless they obtain private sponsors)
oROEchimaru
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as someone who taught a year free to graduate from uw-milwaukee this would be the smartest thing the govt could do to cut costs. I've posted here before... My students in milwaukee were "not to be trusted with books because they are minorities" per the principal, right out of his mouth.
I taught four classes, I had 30 books for 120 students. I would make between 100-500 photo copies a day (about 5-30$ a day in copies using their copiers muhaha). Basically I was making my own books with sources for the students. I used a "peoples history" book (Andrew Zimmerman) that my coteacher loved. It motivated him to buy new books (mind you in wisconsin each kid in a class is worth $8k-15k in tax revenue for the school and i was teaching for free). The 30 text books we did have were 10 years old, a common problem in urban schools.
We wanted to order 120 new text books and 120 of the AP level peoples history books. It came out to about 3500$ on amazon and 4000$ on barnes and nobles. AWESOME OUR BUDGET IS $10000 THEY WILL LOVE THIS.
However the principal says "we can only purchase books through our approved vendor who is my brother in law. The quote he has is 24000$ which is twice your budget, sorry no text books this year."
what would be better
a. first ipad/kindle/surface is free to student - one time cost of $1000
b. every 5 years student gets a new device, if lost/stolen in those 5 years > family has to pay half the cost for a new one.
c. use digital books
why does this sound expensive? your not considering the fact that each student is worth 8-16k$ in revenue. The text books they purchase for them are 200-500$/each and worth 20-30$.
This would pay for itself and make education equal across the board while making them able to compete with other countries going digital.
I taught four classes, I had 30 books for 120 students. I would make between 100-500 photo copies a day (about 5-30$ a day in copies using their copiers muhaha). Basically I was making my own books with sources for the students. I used a "peoples history" book (Andrew Zimmerman) that my coteacher loved. It motivated him to buy new books (mind you in wisconsin each kid in a class is worth $8k-15k in tax revenue for the school and i was teaching for free). The 30 text books we did have were 10 years old, a common problem in urban schools.
We wanted to order 120 new text books and 120 of the AP level peoples history books. It came out to about 3500$ on amazon and 4000$ on barnes and nobles. AWESOME OUR BUDGET IS $10000 THEY WILL LOVE THIS.
However the principal says "we can only purchase books through our approved vendor who is my brother in law. The quote he has is 24000$ which is twice your budget, sorry no text books this year."
what would be better
a. first ipad/kindle/surface is free to student - one time cost of $1000
b. every 5 years student gets a new device, if lost/stolen in those 5 years > family has to pay half the cost for a new one.
c. use digital books
why does this sound expensive? your not considering the fact that each student is worth 8-16k$ in revenue. The text books they purchase for them are 200-500$/each and worth 20-30$.
This would pay for itself and make education equal across the board while making them able to compete with other countries going digital.
kbrickley
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Actually there is no indication this is taxpayer funded ... looks more like they negotiated a deal with publishers to donate the copies (although I am sure there is a tax write off in there somewhere) ... it is also unclear if these are gifts to people (which stop when the publishers hit their dollar limit) or gifts to libraries (to expand their ability to loan ebooks) ... still lots of details aren't clear from the various articles ... since many children's books are still protected under copyright laws this should increase the options to borrow
I'd love to see something like that.. except for "giving" anyone a kindle/ipad/etc there are MUCH cheaper options heck you can get a chromebook for $200 retail. and have it be a loaner for the semester after which student returns.. device is wiped and student issued a different one (previously wiped) At the end of the school year all devices returned.. those not returned paid for by family at depreciated value. so probably like $100. re-use the device for a couple years .. auction off and replace.
Initial cost would be fairly high too. I doubt most school budgets could handle a full on switch.
Duno.. good idea.. just needs a tweak or 3.
Yes there are quite a few that do, however it was the implied broad sweeping generalizations that everyone on foodstamps is a leech in his post that I took issue with.
As many have probably already said... Yey lets give other folks free stuff.
I'm sick of the double standards. Everyone should be treated equal. If you get free stuff, I should get free stuff. Just because some folks made bad decisions doesn't mean the rest of us need to pay for the dippy. I have no problem helping someone out that actually deserves and needs the help.... I'll stop not before this gets to TL;DR length.
I'm sick of the double standards. Everyone should be treated equal. If you get free stuff, I should get free stuff. Just because some folks made bad decisions doesn't mean the rest of us need to pay for the dippy. I have no problem helping someone out that actually deserves and needs the help.... I'll stop not before this gets to TL;DR length.
kbrickley
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I view this more like a crack dealer giving out free samples (with the government's approval) ... we all know that paper books are on their way out ... they are bulky, expensive, and difficult to protect from IP violation (they also offer something that the publishers hate ... resale) ... ebooks provide better DRM, they cost much less to put on the market, and they are non-transferable (currently) ...
I think the higher income folks are already making the jump to ebooks at an acceptable rate most likely (I have only bought a few paper books in the last 4 years but a variety of ebooks and tons of Audio books) ... poor people are more likely to use libraries (where they can get access to the paper books for free) or second hand stores (where they can buy used books at substantial discounts) ... I suspect this is more targeted at getting a critical mass into ebooks so that the publishers can start reducing the physical book market (pretty smart marketing if it is)
heatlesssun
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But we pay for it one way or another. Prisons and courts aren't free. Really not sure why so many are bent out of shape over private concerns giving back at little. Reading is perhaps the most essential skill that a poor kid can develop to not be poor later in life.
We live in an upper middle class neighborhood, yet my kids have library cards, and they actually use them occasionally. Almost all the books they read are paper, not on the computer or a tablet, even though we own 2 tablets.
In many cases paper's is cheaper than ebooks, as there's free from the library, occasionally free special offers/gifts, and even if you buy them, there are plenty of used books available really cheap.
Ur_Mom
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Yea, because they've always been shit poor and could never afford that with state help.
Many times, people are doing ok and buy some nice stuff, then shit happens. Then, you have that iPhone and some other nice stuff. You kind of need a phone, so you sell the TV, the game systems... all while looking for work. You get that job at $8.00 an hour, but you're still on food stamps, and it helps. Then, you're working your ass off making a small amount of money, but you're doing what you can to support your family. And people are still bitching because you have an iPhone waiting for that call for that important interview to get a better job. Yea... Outrageous.
I'm all for free e-books. Give them access to knowledge. Get them to love reading. Be it fiction or non-fiction. Get people educated. If companies are open to give people their books for free, great. I always went to the library, but it was never 'cool'. Book worm, nerd...
I wonder if Amazon could get in on this. Kindles for low income folks or for dirt cheap. The small e-ink ones would be plenty good enough.
Get kids reading so they aren't stupid. I'm all for it.
And what makes you think the same corruption will not exist in the tablet/ebook purchasing.
Just look at the terrible deal the LA school district made with their plans for an iPad for every kid.
Last I heard they never received back all the iPads that where given out, just like books.
In LA if a kid doesn't return the books at the end of the year, they don't bother trying to collect anything. Where I live (upper middle class area) the school district will bill you for any lost or damaged books. And if they can't find you, it goes to collections.
If books are taken care of (or people billed for them if they are not) they can last several years.
Most ebooks have to be repurchased every year, usually at the same cost as the paper books, plus you have the cost of the tablet that gets dropped/broken/lost/stolen.
Until most the lessons/ebooks are free (or almost free) it will always be more expensive to go with a tablet/ebook. What we need is an "education" tablet that can be locked down so nothing else can be loaded on it, and ebooks/lessons developed by the schools and made available for free or very low cost to all the schools.
crusty_juggler
[H]ard|Gawd
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Sometimes, you get on the Internets and see the reaction to kids being given free ebooks, and the reaction to six cops being arrested for breaking a man's spine, and you feel deeply embarrassed to lean right.
Ur_Mom
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You don't have to believe everything.... I lean left on some issues and right on others. I'm a liberal and a conservative. Just depends on the subject. Too many political figures take a hard left or hard right and don't deviate from that. Doesn't matter if they believe in an issue or not, they take the left/right stance even if they don't agree with it. Just to please their party.
rat
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Newsflash. We aren't equal. For as long as there is an income and education level disparity, there is no equality.
What you should say is everyone should be treated fairly.
heatlesssun
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I can understand perfectly many of the issues the right has when it comes to the poor and minorities. But there's never two sides of a story where one side is right about everything. There's a long history over literacy and some who in particular didn't want others to be literate to the even extent of writing laws to prevent it.