Preorder Prusa XL

Liver

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I do not have a 3D printer. I do want one, I do have uses for it, and I do like to learn things.

I finally have space for a work area.

I do not have a lot of time to trouble shoot NON working gear. I don’t mind fixing things, but if all my time is spent fixing something, well….. You know. I’d rather just have it work.

The pre order Prusa XL is way way more than I can currently envision using. It has serious innovations that seem like it’ll make a huge positive change to quality of life with the machine.

The question. Is there anything on the market or coming to the market that has the same innovations as the Prusa XL? Is there any other machine I should be looking at, at that price point?

1. I have the approximate $3000 to get it. That’s 2 heads.
2. I don’t need that much of a machine right now, but less hassle is worth the expense to me.
3. If I can get the same experience and quality AND save money. Damn right I will.

I appreciate y’all’s insight.
 

Darunion

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It depends on your needs. I would start with what size prints do you envision needing? And also is speed important too?

The XL is boost of speed and size over the MK3S. The xl is also enclosed so that will help with ABS/ASA filament printing.

You could also get a pair of mk3s and enclose them and get the ability to print in parallel as an option too but your max size is smaller.

Prusa is a good choice as far as tuned out of the box setups that are consumer friendly.

That is a big purchase for a first timer I will say and this is just my opinion, it might not be a bad idea to start with something smaller to see if this is something you do enjoy. And a second printer is always handy when you need to fix something on the main printer. Don't want to talk you out of it, but it has a higher chance of buyers remorse than say their mini or mk3s. I would get a printer that is capable of printing 90% of your needs, the remaining 10% can be sent out or there is always someone that can do it.

For my case I my largest is 400mm sized printer and my smallest is 120mm, and the small one does most of the printing. Quick to heat up and print.
 
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Liver

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Indulge me.

I’m almost 50 and I technically don’t have any “needs” with a 3D printer. Yea, I do have some projects I’d like to get done, but if I don’t? Well then I don’t.

What I need is something to work. I don’t want to constantly calibrate it or fix it.

I do agree with starting with something smaller. That’s exactly why I posted this thread. I’m not convinced I need or want a Prusa XL.

Which printer would you choose for me to start with? Would it be the 2 printers you mentioned? The mini+ and mk3s+?

Thanks.
 

modi123

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You say you have projects in mind - what size are those?
 
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Liver

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3-5 inches max.

There was a user (here) that posted a 3D printed equipment rack. I haven’t looked at the size of that, but that would be the biggest. So far …
 

Darunion

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A good well rounded would be the mk3s from prusa. It is well tested by time and lots of people using them. Its print size is 210x210mm so it is a bit smaller. It is the same concept of ready to go. It is a smaller investment as well. The mini is an option too but is it but 180x180. I am picking prusas just because that follows what you already picked out and they are quite reputable.

So my statement of needs are what build volumes would best serve you. My large printer can take almost an hour to get to temperature where as my small one gets there in 15minutes. So if you are wanting this for small parts, get one best serves that purpose. My large one cant do ABS well so I have my friend print larger parts for me.

Don't get me wrong the xl looks awesome so i am just bouncing thoughts off you so we can find what you would be most happy with. 3d printing can be rewarding and the more doing it the better!
 
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Liver

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Thanks. This is exactly the information I need.

Aside from the obvious size differences between the mini and mk3, any other meaningful improvements? Upgrades?

I saw that one had blackout protection. I will not lose electricity at my place.

What else?

I completely agree with your assessment on getting a smaller machine first. Mainly if I need to make something for the other machine.

I’m a buy once cry once type of guy, but your reasoning makes complete sense to me.

So now it’s between a mk3 or mini.

I’m open to other brands. I just want the best user experience I can have.
 

Darunion

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If i were starting, I would get the mk3. The print size is a happy place for me. the mk3 i believe is older than the mini but still is a solid piece.

As far as out of the box printers that arent just a chinese budget system (ie creality) or a self build project (ie voron), prusa is probably the best option in my opinion. Not many options sadly in that grouping.

The xl will be a faster printer, this comes from the coreXY design of it so that is an advantage as well and worth considering. The toolhead system is nice for multicolor as you can print without purge towers (filament off to the side to purge the lines). And like i said being enclosed out of the box you will be able to print filaments like ABS, ASA, PC, NYLON where as the MK3 you will need an enclosure for it, not expensive but another component needed.

I would say the smaller printers have no testable advantage over the xl other than price and smaller footprint.

I am trying not to be random but also argue both sides so you can make your decision, i dont want to mislead.
 
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Dreamerbydesign

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I do not have a 3D printer. I do want one, I do have uses for it, and I do like to learn things.

I finally have space for a work area.

I do not have a lot of time to trouble shoot NON working gear. I don’t mind fixing things, but if all my time is spent fixing something, well….. You know. I’d rather just have it work.

The pre order Prusa XL is way way more than I can currently envision using. It has serious innovations that seem like it’ll make a huge positive change to quality of life with the machine.

The question. Is there anything on the market or coming to the market that has the same innovations as the Prusa XL? Is there any other machine I should be looking at, at that price point?

1. I have the approximate $3000 to get it. That’s 2 heads.
2. I don’t need that much of a machine right now, but less hassle is worth the expense to me.
3. If I can get the same experience and quality AND save money. Damn right I will.

I appreciate y’all’s insight.
All 3d printers require tinkering and trouble shooting. I have owned Prusa's and they were ok. Any more reliable than some of the sub $300 printers I have owned? I dont think so. But thats just me. I have owned probably 10+ brands of printers ranging from a few hundred bucks to over 1500 for a single printer. Its a hobby, they all require work. Even identical model printers will require different setup and settings.

If you are looking for set it and forget it reliability with 3d printing, you will not find it. Its a hobby that we spend much time tinkering with. Honestly from the way your psot reads, i would consider a cheaper printer to learn on, or maybe not taking it on as a hobby with your constraints considered.
 

modi123

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There's a number of ender-ish clones like the Voxellab Aquila, SOVOL, MKS3S+, etc that all have quality of life updates over the Creality line.

https://all3dp.com/1/best-3d-printer-reviews-top-3d-printers-home-3-d-printer-3d/

I probably wouldn't plunk down $3k to test the 3d printing waters, but I am still rolling with my 2+ year old Ender3Pro. For the most part it sits on the shelf, and when I need to I dust it off, fire it up, and print. Only minimal upgrades to it over the years. That MKS3s+ though does look nice.
 

maclem8223

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I agree with all the advice here. This isn't a hobby without tinkering regardless of the cost of the machine. There will be issues, you will have to mess with it. MK3 would be where I would start if I was just getting in to this hobby. And I'm with jmilcher on the tinkering as well. May not be the right hobby but you do you! Hell, the tinkering and troubleshooting is half the fun for me. Learn something new every time.
 

Darunion

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I agree with all the advice here. This isn't a hobby without tinkering regardless of the cost of the machine. There will be issues, you will have to mess with it. MK3 would be where I would start if I was just getting in to this hobby. And I'm with jmilcher on the tinkering as well. May not be the right hobby but you do you! Hell, the tinkering and troubleshooting is half the fun for me. Learn something new every time.
Yesterday i blew out an idler (which actually caused it to rip the belt loose and print globs of filament in the air lol.) and after seeing it i replaced it with a better larger bearing and now it is printing better than before. And since i had to remove the bed i got around to checking up on the wires and retightening screws. Always some TLC for the printer, but yea as you said it is part of the game no matter what you get. What printer someone gets might just change where their starting point is.
 

Skott

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What Prusa gives you that many other manufacturers do not is good quality customer service and you pay for that too in a higher cost product. That plus Prusa is made in Europe where labor prices and cost of materials is more than Asia prices.
 

maclem8223

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Yesterday i blew out an idler (which actually caused it to rip the belt loose and print globs of filament in the air lol.) and after seeing it i replaced it with a better larger bearing and now it is printing better than before. And since i had to remove the bed i got around to checking up on the wires and retightening screws. Always some TLC for the printer, but yea as you said it is part of the game no matter what you get. What printer someone gets might just change where their starting point is.
Appreciate the reminder, need to stock up on some more 6mm belt lol.
 

Dreamerbydesign

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What Prusa gives you that many other manufacturers do not is good quality customer service and you pay for that too in a higher cost product. That plus Prusa is made in Europe where labor prices and cost of materials is more than Asia prices.
Pruse ships their printers with MANY 3d printed parts made in house, using their own printers. The quality IMO is not that much better if at all. You do get consistency though. Some of my creality products had factory defects. Usually on parts though that I immediately upgraded anyways. I actually only run one Prusa machine now, and 14 Creality machines believe it or not.
 

drutman

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I do not have a 3D printer. I do want one, I do have uses for it, and I do like to learn things.

I finally have space for a work area.

I do not have a lot of time to trouble shoot NON working gear. I don’t mind fixing things, but if all my time is spent fixing something, well….. You know. I’d rather just have it work.

The pre order Prusa XL is way way more than I can currently envision using. It has serious innovations that seem like it’ll make a huge positive change to quality of life with the machine.

The question. Is there anything on the market or coming to the market that has the same innovations as the Prusa XL? Is there any other machine I should be looking at, at that price point?

1. I have the approximate $3000 to get it. That’s 2 heads.
2. I don’t need that much of a machine right now, but less hassle is worth the expense to me.
3. If I can get the same experience and quality AND save money. Damn right I will.

I appreciate y’all’s insight.
All printers have a learning curve and require constant adjustments and sometimes mods. We have a PRUSA and love it we do combo of resin and filament printing for our customers.
See E3D -online.com for another excellent printer.
Here is our work
 

Liver

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I got the mini Prusa today. However I am working a 24 (or more) so its sitting in the box at home.

Any video (s) you’d recommend me watching to set it up correctly? I bought the assembled version.
 

Darunion

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Not bad on shipping time. I would just start off with their instructions they have on their site. Shouldn't be too much you have to do, they also have a live chat 24/7 available as well as you can toss any questions in here.
 

Liver

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I watched the video from Prusa for the Mini (not plus). I am calibrating right now.

The video was helpful for a great over view and the manual had very few changes since this is a “plus.”

The calibration video is the same.
 

Liver

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So far, I’m failing at calibration. I’ve been through it about 6 times and I can not get the right test pattern.
 

Liver

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7D3051BB-9E20-4501-A0CD-8C783F34D7F3.jpeg

This is one of the better ones. Sucks.

EDIT. So clearly the extruder was too high. The Z axis calibration changes by 0.003 per click of the dial. The axis starts at 0.000.

Being the noob, I am slowly adjusting it. I thought I was moving too fast when I went down by 0.006 at a time. Then I said screw it, after I found the online FAQ, and I started cranking it down.

Now I’m at -1.200
 
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Liver

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I’ll look at that video next.

I tried a test print, one that was included on the thumb drive sent from Prusa.

I had to go take a nap while it was printing. Yes, I realize I should not have rested while it was on the first print. Refer up a couple of posts, I worked a 24 and have been awake for 36 hours.

Well, it failed quite spectacularly and I don’t know why.
 

Darunion

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Yea get some rest and try fresh, some of my best failures were "just one more thing before i go to bed" lol.

Bed adhesion failures (i am assuming is what you had) are from not enough squish against the build plate, too cold of a build plate, or oils/contaminants on the build plate. Simply touching it wiht your hand can create a nonstick surface. I use dishsoap and water on all mine.

I run mine unattended all the time but i wouldn't suggest it until you have a feel for it and trust it to run.
 
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Liver

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I am still having issues. Test calibrations are much better. I settled on -1.175. That looked the best to me, but literally this is my very first experience with any 3D printer so that what that opinion is worth.

I printed the whistle, its on the drive sent by Prusa, so I view it as a test print.

The bed side looks pretty bad, but the rest of it looks really good.

I cleaned the bed with alcohol. I’ll try the dish soap next. I really do not mind wearing gloves with handling the plate, I’ll do that next. Actually I’ll do both next time. I’m going on another 24 hour foray.

What should I tweak when I get home?

48446C44-ED4E-4701-8582-1A97950C286A.jpeg7A430867-DD36-4F55-9EAE-6A50D66AF065.jpeg
 

Darunion

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That still looks far away from the bed. I cant gauge a distance from a photo though.

https://cults3d.com/en/blog/articles/6-main-factors-for-perfect-first-layer-3d-printing

Image and explanation of first layer. It should squish when extruding and when the layer gets placed next to it they should look like 1 seamless line. If it is tubular then it is too far, if it is U shaped then it is too close. You can also grab one strand from a first layer and measure its thickness with calipers and it should be at 0.2mm thick.
 
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Liver

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That still looks far away from the bed. I cant gauge a distance from a photo though.

https://cults3d.com/en/blog/articles/6-main-factors-for-perfect-first-layer-3d-printing

Image and explanation of first layer. It should squish when extruding and when the layer gets placed next to it they should look like 1 seamless line. If it is tubular then it is too far, if it is U shaped then it is too close. You can also grab one strand from a first layer and measure its thickness with calipers and it should be at 0.2mm thick.

Thank you so much. That makes sense.

Seriously. How hard would it have been to put that bit of knowledge in the manual?

I’ll do it tomorrow for sure.

Edit. I was thinking about it at work. The filament from the extruder drops a little bit before it contacts the bed. The link you sent me has a great picture on how far it needs to be. I’ve lowered it to -1.175, looks like I still have a considerable distance to go down.

I can do that but is that normal?
 
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Darunion

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Yes, so the sensing distance of the sensor on the side reaches farther than the nozzle. This is because it needs to be away from the bed surface due to temp and collision risk. So what you are doing is telling the printer what the difference is between the nozzle tip and the sensing point of that sensor. This is called Z offset and for prusa printers it should be a negative value so you are going the right direction.

It will be different from prusa mini to prusa mini so that is why it isnt preset from the factory.


And I do agree, some better instructions would help. True for every printer from enders to even high end industrial ones.


And print failures happen often in the beginning, and sometimes later on. Ive been doing this for 3years and probably could fill a bathtub with my 'learning experiences'. Once it pushed my glass print bed onto the concrete floor, that was a really bad day haha
 

Liver

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Thanks so very much for the information. I got it dialed in and did a test print and it was glorious.

This time I looked at the print head in relation to the bed, INSTEAD of focusing on the extruded filament. All because you linked me a page that I could understand, and it came out great.

I just downloaded my first STL file, sliced it, and have it on a thumb drive. Waiting on some filament to be delivered. Im going to stick with PLA for the moment.

Im going to print a wheel for my Dyson cordless. Its been out of stock forever, assuming that replacement parts even exist. I found the file on thingaverse. Amazing.

Keep y'all posted.
 

Darunion

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Thanks so very much for the information. I got it dialed in and did a test print and it was glorious.

This time I looked at the print head in relation to the bed, INSTEAD of focusing on the extruded filament. All because you linked me a page that I could understand, and it came out great.

I just downloaded my first STL file, sliced it, and have it on a thumb drive. Waiting on some filament to be delivered. Im going to stick with PLA for the moment.

Im going to print a wheel for my Dyson cordless. Its been out of stock forever, assuming that replacement parts even exist. I found the file on thingaverse. Amazing.

Keep y'all posted.

Oh good to hear that!
 

sed8em

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Thanks so very much for the information. I got it dialed in and did a test print and it was glorious.

This time I looked at the print head in relation to the bed, INSTEAD of focusing on the extruded filament. All because you linked me a page that I could understand, and it came out great.

I just downloaded my first STL file, sliced it, and have it on a thumb drive. Waiting on some filament to be delivered. Im going to stick with PLA for the moment.

Im going to print a wheel for my Dyson cordless. Its been out of stock forever, assuming that replacement parts even exist. I found the file on thingaverse. Amazing.

Keep y'all posted.

Glad you're getting it figured out! I have a Prusa Mini+ and a MK3S+. I ditched my Chinese printers, they made good results, but I was tired of tinkering and calibrating. The real strength of Prusa is their custom slicer and their firmware work so dang well together that it makes 3D printing an after thought. 3D printing isn't my hobby, creating an end result is the goal, not tinkering. Much like wood working, I want good tools that get out of the way of me creating a finished product.

I ended up replacing the heatbreak and PTFE liner in my Mini with the Bondtech one after I was experiencing some issues with clogging, while I was at it I also replaced the extruder with the Bondtech extruder. In my experience the heatbreak was necessary, not sure the extruder was necessary but I figured why not since I had it apart.

I also installed a Z axis brace, there are several on PrusaPrinters website. This is the Z axis brace I bought: https://dimetriz.com/prusa-minimini-bracket/
Here is a printed one: https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/144160-prusa-mini-z-axis-brace-reinforced

I also use a Pi with Octoprint and Spaghetti Detective subscription so I can watch prints from work.
https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/131422-src3d-4-prusa-mini-pi-noir-camera-mount
Here's a neat case: https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/142076-prusa-mini-case-for-raspberry-pi-zero-2w
Don't use the original Zero W, use a 3B+, 4B, or Zero 2w. Those three have enough horsepower to run a camera while also running the printer.

Although Pi's are impossible to get right now.

I also printed some TPU feet for my Mini. I used some generic cheap Orange TPU from Amazon.

Don't be afraid to try other filaments, the Mini has handled everything I've thrown at it, ASA, PETG, TPU. Just pay attention to your tension screw and use recommended settings, do a little reading and print a Benchy when trying new filaments.

I use the textured PEI sheet for PETG, ASA and TPU. I haven't used PLA in years.
 
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Liver

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That Z axis brace looks legit! I really don’t care if I need it or not. I love some anodized parts. Got it and the carry handle. Thanks.

I’m going to change out the extruder and heatbreak eventually. I watched the video and it’s involved. Totally doable, but I’ll need to make some time to get it done. Thanks again for the link.

I was looking at octoprint and I’m reading up on it. It’s something I need to do. Currently I have a pi 3 and 4 sitting around. Doing absolutely nothing. I can use the 3 on it. Just need to get it done.

I understand what you mean, exactly. I want to make stuff with the printer, I don’t want the printer itself to become the hobby.

I ordered 2 spools of PLA and I’ll use those before trying PETG.

TPU feet? I need to look that up.
 
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