Postal Startup Draws the Scrutiny of the USPS

CommanderFrank

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It’s has become obvious that the US Postal Service does not like direct competition from the small startup company, Outbox, that literally delivers the US mail for its clients electronically. The USPS sees their business as something else entirely.

One way or another, Outbox is determined to overturn the status quo in the world of mail delivery, continuing a trend started by the likes of UPS and FedEx. Ironically, the company’s run-in with the Postal Service only accelerated its efforts to changes the mail system.
 

Scythe

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I applaud their effort to get rid of USPS. It's a money sink for the US taxpayer, and should be downsized or simply handed over to private corporations like DHS, FedEX, UPS, etc.

Most of my bills come via electronic means which means my mailbox is primary there to receive junk mail which goes from the box to my recycle bin.
 

c3141hf

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The USPS should be eliminated. It can never be profitable because it is a government operation subject to the whims of politicians and because they insist on charging the same no matter how rural the recipient of a letter is. Having mail service is not a right. What is a right is the right to operate a business that competes with the USPS without being subject to the molestation of the state which cannot compete without the use of violence.
 

trparky

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The US Postal Service would be profitable if only Congress would stop raping it.
 

Showbiz

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I applaud their effort to get rid of USPS. It's a money sink for the US taxpayer, and should be downsized or simply handed over to private corporations like DHS, FedEX, UPS, etc.

Most of my bills come via electronic means which means my mailbox is primary there to receive junk mail which goes from the box to my recycle bin.

Actually, its not. The postal service used to be one of the only government run operations that was consistently profitable. The cause for their deficit is that the government (in all it's wisdom :rolleyes: ) changed how the USPS must fund the pensions for it's retirees. Esssentially they have to pre-pay for the pension 5 years ahead of schedule, adding $2 Billion in costs to their operating budget, and thus creating the shortfalls.

Even the postal worker's union thinks it's stupid, and supported the USPS when they protested the requirement.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...ks-at-pension-funding-requirement.html?pg=all
 

Spidey329

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I applaud their effort to get rid of USPS. It's a money sink for the US taxpayer, and should be downsized or simply handed over to private corporations like DHS, FedEX, UPS, etc.

Most of my bills come via electronic means which means my mailbox is primary there to receive junk mail which goes from the box to my recycle bin.

Err .. its actually quite the opposite. What hurt their balance sheet is the prepaid pension plans. That's why they always need to be bailed out. Blame the unions for that.
 

Spidey329

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Err .. its actually quite the opposite. What hurt their balance sheet is the prepaid pension plans. That's why they always need to be bailed out. Blame the unions for that.

*reads above* wow.. guess Congress did this f-up on their own, lol. Might as well start cutting out the middleman, makes fing up the country way more efficient.
 

sfsuphysics

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I applaud their effort to get rid of USPS. It's a money sink for the US taxpayer, and should be downsized or simply handed over to private corporations like DHS, FedEX, UPS, etc.

Most of my bills come via electronic means which means my mailbox is primary there to receive junk mail which goes from the box to my recycle bin.

ah the great response of "well my stuff doesn't....therefore that's the way it is!"

This company isn't doing shit to get rid of the USPS, obviously these tech savvy people still are having physical mail delivered, not everything is electronic. The USPS still delivers the mail from where ever it started to the nearest sorting facility and to the customers. This company can not replace that aspect of it. At most what this company is is a personal assistant that simply sorts your mail, and lets you see the stuff it thinks is relevant.

I sure as fuck don't want anyone opening my mail, it's kind of one of those last bastions of privacy. If other people want this service then fine. Just realize that it is doing nothing to put the USPS out of business or to change their model or anything else associated with the USPS, by the time they do their service the USPS is already done with everything it does.
 

kbrickley

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I applaud their effort to get rid of USPS. It's a money sink for the US taxpayer, and should be downsized or simply handed over to private corporations like DHS, FedEX, UPS, etc.

Most of my bills come via electronic means which means my mailbox is primary there to receive junk mail which goes from the box to my recycle bin.

The USPS should be eliminated. It can never be profitable because it is a government operation subject to the whims of politicians and because they insist on charging the same no matter how rural the recipient of a letter is. Having mail service is not a right. What is a right is the right to operate a business that competes with the USPS without being subject to the molestation of the state which cannot compete without the use of violence.

Other governments around the world operate mail service service profitably ... there should be a way to do it in this country (or at least at zero loss ... one could argue that no operation funded with public money should make a profit ... they should be at cost) ... although I would love to see the government force everyone to become a paperless society, it isn't going to happen (even though that is better for the environment long term) ... the one good thing about the post office going out of business would be it would probably result in the removal of almost every politician from public office when people get upset about the absence of the low cost and generally reliable mail they get today
 

Scythe

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Almost everyone who quoted my post started off with something akin to "actually, it's not" "quite the opposite", etc. All I said was that it was a money sink. Doesn't matter that congress fucked it up, or that the postal service has to prepay pensions (I knew this), etc. The bottom line is that this organization does not have the funding to pre-pay pensions, move mail, etc. without losing money.

Fact: The USPS loses 25 million a DAY. Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/17/postal-service-losing-money-united-states_n_3104513.html

So, I call it money sink - everyone else says no. What, pray tell, do you guys call an organization that spends more than it takes in?
 

Janic

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So, I call it money sink - everyone else says no. What, pray tell, do you guys call an organization that spends more than it takes in?

I think you mean money pit, because money sink (or gold sink) applies to virtual economies in MMOs to control inflation.
 

Scythe

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I think you mean money pit, because money sink (or gold sink) applies to virtual economies in MMOs to control inflation.

Yeah, money pit would have been a better phrase. Apologies....I went to public school :D
 

JoeUser

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I hope the USPS doesn't go anywhere. I've never once had an issue with them, they are cheaper than anyone else (sometimes more than half compared to UPS/Fedex), they have good customer service when I've dealt with them, etc.

I love USPS...I've shipped over 100 packages to members on these forums in FS/FT and never once have had an issue.

The problems USPS has is not their own. It's the fucktards in the government that don't seem to know how to do anything than blow money and work with our enemies.

Let's just say that is USPS goes under all my future FS/FT threads will be price PLUS shipping!
 

[Tripod]MajorPayne

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Actually, its not. The postal service used to be one of the only government run operations that was consistently profitable. The cause for their deficit is that the government (in all it's wisdom :rolleyes: ) changed how the USPS must fund the pensions for it's retirees. Esssentially they have to pre-pay for the pension 5 years ahead of schedule, adding $2 Billion in costs to their operating budget, and thus creating the shortfalls.

Even the postal worker's union thinks it's stupid, and supported the USPS when they protested the requirement.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...ks-at-pension-funding-requirement.html?pg=all

Maybe defined-benefit pensions are really, really stupid for long-term retirement planning, especially when we agree to let people retire at 55 and then guarantee them 90% of their pay for life.

Why is it that government workers get golden parachute pensions that are taxpayer guaranteed? Why have I apparently signed a suicide pact with the government workers of Detroit, Stockton, and California state so that my tax dollars are going to be held hostage when these places go bankrupt?

Why do they get defined-benefit plans when almost every single major corporation has gone to full 401(k) and/or defined-CONTRIBUTION plans where the money accrues in an account and is physically present instead of "promised" based on the most optimistic estimates of stocks, economic growth, and government funding?
 

JoeUser

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[Tripod]MajorPayne;1040166679 said:
Maybe defined-benefit pensions are really, really stupid for long-term retirement planning, especially when we agree to let people retire at 55 and then guarantee them 90% of their pay for life.

Why is it that government workers get golden parachute pensions that are taxpayer guaranteed? Why have I apparently signed a suicide pact with the government workers of Detroit, Stockton, and California state so that my tax dollars are going to be held hostage when these places go bankrupt?

Why do they get defined-benefit plans when almost every single major corporation has gone to full 401(k) and/or defined-CONTRIBUTION plans where the money accrues in an account and is physically present instead of "promised" based on the most optimistic estimates of stocks, economic growth, and government funding?

Why is it that the government is $17,000,000,000,000 in debt yet some million$ is such a big deal? It goes back to what I've always said..."If only that 17 trillion was spend in America on Americans this country wouldn't be recognizable due to it's overwhelming greatness." Instead things like the FUCKING POSTAL SYSTEM are suffering because we have to pay for Al Qaeda's services in Syria or pay off more politicians or have to build more death machines.

It's fucked. These USPS problems wouldn't exist if our government wasn't a massive problem to being with.
 

Bladestorm

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Letter_Mail_Company


285761_10150948131617860_2105205217_n.jpg
 

Semantics

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*reads above* wow.. guess Congress did this f-up on their own, lol. Might as well start cutting out the middleman, makes fing up the country way more efficient.
It's the same shit with the debt ceiling, congress sets the budget then complains to the president why he's spending the money he is legally obligated to follow though spending. Congress creating fictional problems that only they can solve!

Anyone who thinks USPS should be done away with should note that all rural areas often last leg delivery is done by USPS outside of densely populated areas it's not really profitable for UPS or FedEx to deliver there so they don't they just get it to the right area and let USPS leg the last part of the trip.

It's also to note that USPS is controlled by the government and is expected to enforce it's charter which is to not compete, they aren't allowed to expand or even set their own prices for things like mail.

Along with that the USPS is government ran but privatively funded(pre-2006? congress law forcing them to pay ahead 5 years to the government pre-funding their pension, because you know congress can't be fiscally responsible so lets make USPS be ultra responsible by running in into the ground)
 

Semantics

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I applaud their effort to get rid of USPS. It's a money sink for the US taxpayer, and should be downsized or simply handed over to private corporations like DHS, FedEX, UPS, etc.

Most of my bills come via electronic means which means my mailbox is primary there to receive junk mail which goes from the box to my recycle bin.
DHS you mean the german postal service monopoly that unlike USPS was allowed to expand into things outside of mail? Although i don't think they are an enforced monopoly anymore.
 

Eustus

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I applaud their effort to get rid of USPS. It's a money sink for the US taxpayer, and should be downsized or simply handed over to private corporations like DHS, FedEX, UPS, etc.

Most of my bills come via electronic means which means my mailbox is primary there to receive junk mail which goes from the box to my recycle bin.

Amen!
 

Exavior

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For those that jumped right to bitching about USPS did anyone actually read the article or stop to think about what this service does?

First off when it started, you had your mail directed to them instead of your home. they openned every single item you got in the mail, then they would decided if it was junk mail or not, if they thought it was something you wanted then they scanned it into a computer for you to read it online. So this is a company that goes through EVERYTHING of yours that might come still via paper (bank records, credit card records....)

Once the post office stopped letting them take mail right from the post office itself by having people's mail redirected to them instead they started driving house to house and taking mail out of the people's mailboxes (with their permission) and doing this scanning...

I don't like the idea of somebody going through all of mail for me like that. Seems to me like that is just asking for identity theft.
 

belfert

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The USPS isn't taking any money from taxpayers since they don't get tax money.

This service seems like a total waste of money. Why would anyone pay someone to come out, pick up their mail, and then sort it for them? How long does it really take to sort your mail yourself?

I suspect the reason the USPS doesn't like this is then junk mail doesn't make it to the intended recipient. The bulk mailers will quit mailing if nobody ever sees it. Even if one tosses all junk mail you probably see each piece of mail for a second or so and you'll at least see the company logo. Something might catch your eye and you actually look at the mailer.
 

rudy

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Interesting business model, I cant imagine wanting to pay more for mail delivery. But here is a question why cant you just go to the post office and tell them to forward your mail to this business?

But legally, they could actually get in a ton of trouble. There are federal crimes that stop a person who is not the intended target from opening mail or taking mail. Now the question is at what point does the customer OK that. I suspect if the post office really doesn't like these guys they will send a special letter to a person that is a secure document then go after them.

All that said I think its BS that the USPS is basically in bed with mail spammers. It is disgusting that they allow this if for no other reason because of the heavy environmental damage. I throw in the trash almost all my mail. Never read it, and for most of it I never even open it. What a waste for the USPS to make a measily 30 cents.
 

pxc

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33,064
The USPS should be eliminated.
There's a procedure for that! All Congress has to do is pass a Constitutional amendment to overturn Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 and have the necessary number of states ratify it. lol

There are very few cases where it's necessary for a physical letter to be delivered instead of a scan like the mentioned company is doing, but the low volume of mail in such a reduced capacity would make sending letters and packages incredibly expensive. The status quo was actually fine before stupid politicians started messing with it to score cheap political points.
 

BryanSTG

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All that said I think its BS that the USPS is basically in bed with mail spammers. It is disgusting that they allow this if for no other reason because of the heavy environmental damage. I throw in the trash almost all my mail. Never read it, and for most of it I never even open it. What a waste for the USPS to make a measily 30 cents.

Supposedly this keeps the cost of mail delivery and services down but so would getting rid of the union and fixing how they handle pensions/retirement. I do the exact same thing and throw out or recycle about 99% of the mail I get, it doesn't even get opened. The USPS needs a good old fashion public shaming to embarass the hell out of them stop this practice.
 

Jagger100

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It's the same shit with the debt ceiling, congress sets the budget then complains to the president why he's spending the money he is legally obligated to follow though spending. Congress creating fictional problems that only they can solve!

This is not entirely true.

The President has help sponsor several initiatives that apend money. Like the 800 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. And the Afordable Care Act is going to be an interesting ride.
The President held the US's credit rating hostage by rigging the last debt ceiling scenario to ensure we would default on our debt payments. Ironic, when you have to go into debt to make you debt payments you're done. Fortunately that situation was artificially created as we have continuous revenue stream from everyone's paychecks to use as revenue to make our debt payments. It didn't have to be rigged that way.
Speaking of rigging, the 44 billion spending cut has been blamed for everything under the sun by this Administration when in fact in no point this year did we not outspend ourselves from last year. That was purely a punative PR stunt against spending cuts from the whitehouse press offfice.

And Congress power forces them to basically have to turn off the spigot for everything. Anytime the government has shutdown over a budget arguement, the media blames the people who wanted fiscal responsibility and defended the Party of Spending.
 

westrock2000

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All that said I think its BS that the USPS is basically in bed with mail spammers. It is disgusting that they allow this if for no other reason because of the heavy environmental damage. I throw in the trash almost all my mail. Never read it, and for most of it I never even open it. What a waste for the USPS to make a measily 30 cents.

You can do your part in recycling and sending back all those prepaid envelopes. Just put in blank forms, or coupons from other mail. The post office will get double paid. And it might teach the spammers some lesson.
 

closers

Gawd
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For those that jumped right to bitching about USPS did anyone actually read the article or stop to think about what this service does?

First off when it started, you had your mail directed to them instead of your home. they openned every single item you got in the mail, then they would decided if it was junk mail or not, if they thought it was something you wanted then they scanned it into a computer for you to read it online. So this is a company that goes through EVERYTHING of yours that might come still via paper (bank records, credit card records....)

Once the post office stopped letting them take mail right from the post office itself by having people's mail redirected to them instead they started driving house to house and taking mail out of the people's mailboxes (with their permission) and doing this scanning...

I don't like the idea of somebody going through all of mail for me like that. Seems to me like that is just asking for identity theft.

Amen. Let's also not forget also that despite all the complaints of USPS is not competitive, it is in fact the last thing in the way of the "free market" to forming yet another oligarchy that price fixes and reduces choices like our telecom companies. But worry not our politicians are working day and night to make it a reality.
 

bexamous

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2006 was when USPS began having to prefund 75 years of retirement in 10 years. Which makes no logical sense other than to make it look like the USPS is not profitable. Not including those payments a year or so ago they had made about a billion dollars, I don't know about last year or so.... they were making less money though, maybe losing a little.

USPS is not the problem, this type of shit is the problem:

When Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew told Congress last week of plans to take money from two federal employee retirement funds to avoid defaulting on the national debt, there was hardly a peep. No outrage. No dismay. Not even a question.

APWU President Cliff Guffey wants to know why not.

Guffey is ticked off because the federal government is taking a chunk of money that properly belongs to the Postal Service — while the USPS teeters on the edge of bankruptcy.

“Postal customers and employees have overpaid $3 billion into the Federal Employees Retirement System, but Congress has refused to return the surplus – even while the USPS is forced to shutter thousands of post offices, close hundreds of mail sorting facilities, lower service standards, and delay mail delivery,” he said.

“The government is helping itself to money that was paid by postal customers and employees, not taxpayers,” Guffey pointed out.

“The federal government won’t let the Postal Service touch that money, but they’re taking it themselves,” the union president said. “How brazen can they be?”

“The government has borrowed before from federal employee pension accounts and repaid the money,” Guffey noted. “We fully expect it to be repaid this time as well. But that's not the point.”

In addition to the federal pension funds, the Treasury is tapping the controversial Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund. “The one that’s bankrupting the USPS,” Guffey said.

“The fund has more than $46 billion in it that the government won’t let the Postal Service use, even though the agency is on the verge of a financial collapse,” he said, “but they’re helping themselves to it.”

Congress created the fund in 2006 when it passed the PAEA, which forces the Postal Service to pre-fund a 75-year liability in a 10-year period. The payments, which are approximately $5 billion annually, account for approximately 70 percent of the Postal Service’s current net deficit for the period from 2007 to 2012.

“Congress insists the USPS must pre-fund. They say the money must be there, but they don’t object when the government grabs it,” Guffey said.
 

sleepeeg3

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5,144
Why is it that the government is $17,000,000,000,000 in debt yet some million$ is such a big deal? It goes back to what I've always said..."If only that 17 trillion was spend in America on Americans this country wouldn't be recognizable due to it's overwhelming greatness." Instead things like the FUCKING POSTAL SYSTEM are suffering because we have to pay for Al Qaeda's services in Syria or pay off more politicians or have to build more death machines.

It's fucked. These USPS problems wouldn't exist if our government wasn't a massive problem to being with.
The government loaned them something like $17 billion over the last few years that went into a black hole. It's not a few million. The government is enmeshed in so many industries it has no right being, that are the problem. Libs whine about defense, but even if we totally eliminated our military, we would still have a deficit of like $1 trillion a year. Defense is only around 25% of the budget - it's Medicare, Medicaid, SS and all the little bullshit that adds up.
 

Semantics

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This is not entirely true.

The President has help sponsor several initiatives that apend money. Like the 800 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. And the Afordable Care Act is going to be an interesting ride.
The President held the US's credit rating hostage by rigging the last debt ceiling scenario to ensure we would default on our debt payments. Ironic, when you have to go into debt to make you debt payments you're done. Fortunately that situation was artificially created as we have continuous revenue stream from everyone's paychecks to use as revenue to make our debt payments. It didn't have to be rigged that way.
Speaking of rigging, the 44 billion spending cut has been blamed for everything under the sun by this Administration when in fact in no point this year did we not outspend ourselves from last year. That was purely a punative PR stunt against spending cuts from the whitehouse press offfice.

And Congress power forces them to basically have to turn off the spigot for everything. Anytime the government has shutdown over a budget arguement, the media blames the people who wanted fiscal responsibility and defended the Party of Spending.
The President can suggest bills but any bills have to be bought up in congress by congressmen and passed by the congress the president cannot introduce a bill.

The budget post nixon has been set by congress the president can only make suggestions. The budget must be followed by the president only congress can stop or start something fiscally in the budget. It has nothing to do with party lines has everything to do with how congress/the government works.

You also don't quite seem to get the debt celling, the debt ceiling is an agreement by the congress to pay it's debts that were already incurred. It was created to act as a cap on borrowing but in reality all that happens is we spend we reach the debt ceiling no one is stupid enough to default and say we aren't going to pay our debt and we raise it. A self created problem by congress to control congresses spending.
 

Exavior

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The President can suggest bills but any bills have to be bought up in congress by congressmen and passed by the congress the president cannot introduce a bill.

The budget post nixon has been set by congress the president can only make suggestions. The budget must be followed by the president only congress can stop or start something fiscally in the budget. It has nothing to do with party lines has everything to do with how congress/the government works.

You also don't quite seem to get the debt celling, the debt ceiling is an agreement by the congress to pay it's debts that were already incurred. It was created to act as a cap on borrowing but in reality all that happens is we spend we reach the debt ceiling no one is stupid enough to default and say we aren't going to pay our debt and we raise it. A self created problem by congress to control congresses spending.

The President can create any new law or bills he wants and sign off on it without anyone stopping him. there are no checks no balances, Obama personally has created every single bad thing that has went into effect in the last 175 years and signed them all into play without anyone able to stop him. He also has created all debt on the planet. AND he shot JFK. Think I covered all the crazies there in a reply to your realistic look on things :)
 

Jagger100

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The President can suggest bills but any bills have to be bought up in congress by congressmen and passed by the congress the president cannot introduce a bill.
He is responsible for crafting/authoring those bills, find a co-operative Congressman/Senator is a trivial task for President.
 

Jagger100

Supreme [H]ardness
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The President can create any new law or bills he wants and sign off on it without anyone stopping him. there are no checks no balances, Obama personally has created every single bad thing that has went into effect in the last 175 years and signed them all into play without anyone able to stop him. He also has created all debt on the planet. AND he shot JFK. Think I covered all the crazies there in a reply to your realistic look on things :)

Are you talking about the de facto implimentation of the DREAM act that failed out of Congresss.
 
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