Poll/opinion is Killzone Realtime or not

WickedAngel said:
They might not have outright lied (And I believe they did, but I don't have time to go back and watch the release) but they mislead a lot of people with their biased (And unrealistic) specs and pre-rendered videos.
Click to expand...
(You don't have time. "Mislead"? W'ever. "Biased specs?" That a nonsensical term.)

:rolleyes: Heh. Well. Companies have been releasing trailers for years w/o specification either way. It's a tease. It's called marketing. Look at all the talk about Killzone going around. Looks like the concept video paid off. :)

Enjoy your hate-on, it'll keep you warm at night. Spend more time being pro-one instead of anti-the-other. It's pointless, because both of these consoles are going to be so close in performance that the only thing assured is that these new games are going to be a treat, regardless of platform.
 
Like I mentioned before, this is about mindshare. This is what Sony does best. It has an image to protect. They are " cool, powerful, ground breaking"

Note how there were No xbox 360 Tech demos. While on the sony camp, there were a ton.

All sony needs to do is sell you on a promise, watch the F4nboyz go nuts. We will come out with games that looks this HOT in 9 months. So..meanwhile don't buy an xbox360 cuz ours will be better.

Note also how Nobody wants to confirm if the footage is " realtime or not" again, all part of keeping you guessing, on your toes, talking about them, wondering, dreaming.

I say BULLSHIT !! maybe on the ps4 we will see graphics this good. I dont doubt that the ps3 cells and all are powerful, I just doubt that Nvidia can pull this from their new core. My main point is, if this demo was real, this software studio would have a sick ass engine on their hands, beating out epic's Unreal 3. which I highly doubt.

Since they are not on record as saying this is realtime, when it does come out and its not, we can't blame them. Meanwhile they are causing a stir in the gaming industry.

Its MARKETING at its best. get people to talk about you. good news, bad news, guessing. they dont care. as a result, most will wait, (myself included) before they buy a 360xbox.
 
Arkham said:
(You don't have time. "Mislead"? W'ever. "Biased specs?" That a nonsensical term.)

:rolleyes: Heh. Well. Companies have been releasing trailers for years w/o specification either way. It's a tease. It's called marketing. Look at all the talk about Killzone going around. Looks like the concept video paid off. :)

Enjoy your hate-on, it'll keep you warm at night. Spend more time being pro-one instead of anti-the-other. It's pointless, because both of these consoles are going to be so close in performance that the only thing assured is that these new games are going to be a treat, regardless of platform.
Click to expand...

Biased-specs is only "nonsensiscal" to someone who is too stupid enough to realize they're being fooled. Sony is claiming to have twice as much hardware power as Microsoft and about twenty times as much power over modern PCs. They neglected to mention that they measured the results of the PS3 differently than the results of the hardware and put everything on one graph.

Releasing trailers is normal. Releasing trailers and pawning them off as in-game footage is something that Sony has capitalized on since the Playstation 2 was announced. Tools like you who believe them are the exact thing they need.

Enjoy your ignorance. I would rather be a jaded realist instead of a tool, but that is your decision to make.
 
BlckRaven said:
Like I mentioned before, this is about mindshare. This is what Sony does best. It has an image to protect. They are " cool, powerful, ground breaking"

Note how there were No xbox 360 Tech demos. While on the sony camp, there were a ton.

All sony needs to do is sell you on a promise, watch the F4nboyz go nuts. We will come out with games that looks this HOT in 9 months. So..meanwhile don't buy an xbox360 cuz ours will be better.

Note also how Nobody wants to confirm if the footage is " realtime or not" again, all part of keeping you guessing, on your toes, talking about them, wondering, dreaming.

I say BULLSHIT !! maybe on the ps4 we will see graphics this good. I dont doubt that the ps3 cells and all are powerful, I just doubt that Nvidia can pull this from their new core. My main point is, if this demo was real, this software studio would have a sick ass engine on their hands, beating out epic's Unreal 3. which I highly doubt.

Since they are not on record as saying this is realtime, when it does come out and its not, we can't blame them. Meanwhile they are causing a stir in the gaming industry.

Its MARKETING at its best. get people to talk about you. good news, bad news, guessing. they dont care. as a result, most will wait, (myself included) before they buy a 360xbox.
Click to expand...

I think somebody actually understands the real world ;) Creating any form of doubt on the XBOX 360 is money that MS does not get. Whether the doubt is true or not...it is still doubt that they are instilling on MS...and MS hasn't step up to the plate to bat it back yet.

Time will tell...but I do think that Sony has won a decisive battle in this generations console war because they found a way to reduce MS's potential sales.

I personally don't care about the hype at the levels that people are going to. I am just glad that 720P games will become a standard instead of an afterthought. I'll see which console has the better GAMES and buy it. Better eye candy is just a bonus.....The day I buy a game for only eye candy is the day I need to stop calling myself a gamer. ;)

As for blueray helping games...you bet it can because they can pull data at lightning rates. This means they might be able to start combining realtime graphcis with prerendered movies. No compression of textures is highly possible. They may be able to have the same texture at different compression levels depending upon the polygon count on the screen. Having quick access to a large data storage medium can very much help PC performance. Blue-ray has the ability to equal if not surpass current HDD technology for bandwidth. The potential is there...which is damn cool.

-tReP
 
It was also said that the unreal game they showed off was ported from the pc at the end of the unreal demonstration. They call that 20 times better. Looks the same as teh pc trailers and everything. You know straight off the bat that was a fat lie with those charts also.
 
As far as the unreal engine, we all know it will rock. I mean depends on PC it was run from. We all know you will need badass hardware to run it. It will also be tweaked by the time it hits the pc market, hopefully the hardware can keep up. But if you want full glory of it, I am sure it will require beefed up hardware ala 6800 plus or Ati X whatever new gear they have.

Keep in mind what the ps3/xbox360 are claiming they are bringing to the plate.A super high end gaming box. Heck if for $300 - 500 if I can have that....slap on a keyboard, a nice dell 24" I would be all over the ps3/xbox360.

My main gripe btw with the xbox360 is the lack of DVI or HDMI, or any sort of HD media. I mean they are claiming we want HD market...ok....wheres your HD drive? Where’s the HD port ie DVI or Hdmi, I don’t want to hear shit like composite or vga, yuk !

Now I just read an interview, http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000597043723


Not confirming nor denying ...wtf he sounds more like a congress politician.

I am getting sick of all these cat/mouse cloak and dagger bullshit ! From both Sony and Microsoft. As a gamer, I will wait and see. Meanwhile, I will play what I have.
 
WickedAngel said:
Biased-specs is only "nonsensiscal" to someone who is too stupid enough to realize they're being fooled. Sony is claiming to have twice as much hardware power as Microsoft and about twenty times as much power over modern PCs. They neglected to mention that they measured the results of the PS3 differently than the results of the hardware and put everything on one graph.

Releasing trailers is normal. Releasing trailers and pawning them off as in-game footage is something that Sony has capitalized on since the Playstation 2 was announced. Tools like you who believe them are the exact thing they need.

Enjoy your ignorance. I would rather be a jaded realist instead of a tool, but that is your decision to make.
Click to expand...
You're an unhappy person, aren't you?

I've seen many trailers over the past few days that don't (or didn't at the time of release) specify in-game or pre-rendered, for all systems. Visit GameSpot or any other E3 site and look around. You might learn a thing or two about marketing.
 
BlckRaven said:
My main gripe btw with the xbox360 is the lack of DVI or HDMI, or any sort of HD media. I mean they are claiming we want HD market...ok....wheres your HD drive? Where’s the HD port ie DVI or Hdmi, I don’t want to hear shit like composite or vga, yuk !
Click to expand...
Doesn't the 360 have a proprietary "multi-av" out that could have a DVI or HDMI connector on the end? The way the PS2 and XBox have multiple outputs via the same connector.
 
Arkham said:
You're an unhappy person, aren't you?

I've seen many trailers over the past few days that don't (or didn't at the time of release) specify in-game or pre-rendered, for all systems. Visit GameSpot or any other E3 site and look around. You might learn a thing or two about marketing.
Click to expand...

Original. Changing the subject to divert the fact that you were wrong. I've never seen that before :rolleyes:

I know quite a lot about marketing, which is exactly why I don't believe anything Sony says. I'm sorry if you are too foolish to see that they're playing the exact same game that they played with the PS2, but it really isn't my problem.

The X360 had playable games at E3. Not trailers. Not CG. Fully-playable.
 
I think a lot of people are seriously misunderstanding what's going on.

If you put two + two together, the Killzone footage was part of a pre made video montage that Sony played at the conference to give people an idea of what to expect from next gen games.

Judging by what Mark said about seeing that exact footage 3 or 4 times during rehearsal, and judging by what Deanoc said about what they had to do to create their portion of the montage for Heavenly Sword, the video itself was NOT running real time at the conference, but it was rather footage captured + edited together.

IMHO the footage was running with in game assets (shaders, models + textures), but the footage we saw was possibly augmented with certain effects after it was captured (such as the fire effect, etc..etc) due to time restraints from having to deliver on footage for the conference.

After seeing the realtime demo Sony delivered at the conference, there's no reason to believe that they will not be able to deliver on Killzone when the game launches. Sony demonstrated some absolutely mindblowing stuff from their tech demos alone (that bathtub demo where that guy scooped up two cups of water was just :eek: worthy)
 
WickedAngel said:
Original. Changing the subject to divert the fact that you were wrong. I've never seen that before :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Wrong? I've been in speculation mode since I first saw it. The fact that they didn't say it was real-time at the press conference while saying the Unreal demo was, was a bit of a hint. Yes, sure, it was from a PS3/PC devkit, but, er...G5 demos anyone?

There was similar trouble and strife over the MGS2 demo a few years ago. People couldn't believe it wasn't pre-rendered. Later Kojima said it was the in-game engine, but that it was rendered up a bit, sort of like the the Grand Turismo replays. If KZ wasn't the concept demo is was (of which E3 has dozens), that was still a possibility.

So Mr. Negative, which was your favourite game of E3? Chronicles of Gripey McPuppykicker and His Depressed Black Crayon?
 
Conker said:
They also said it was a pc port at the end of the demonstration. You won't see eye watering graphics until the pc gets it first because thats how the developers make better graphics for the consoles. If the pc doesn't have the power then you won't see the power since they can't generate it yet.
Click to expand...

:confused:

Are you honestly saying that developers can't generate content that's beyond what the designers' workstations can handle?

Try working with a package like 3ds max or Maya. You can create content far more complex than you can render in real time.
 
Akuma said:
.....on Apple G5s.
Click to expand...
Which means that we arnt seeing the full capabilities, which is good news/

Also, the Xbox360 games were developed on G5s (very close architecture)
 
Kevin Lowe said:
:confused:

Are you honestly saying that developers can't generate content that's beyond what the designers' workstations can handle?

Try working with a package like 3ds max or Maya. You can create content far more complex than you can render in real time.
Click to expand...

Well ya, but do you realise how long it takes for render farms to render those graphics? Days, Weeks!

If you like 1 Frame per 3 days, thats fine by me, it means jack for actual gaming
 
Hate_Bot said:
Well ya, but do you realise how long it takes for render farms to render those graphics? Days, Weeks!
Click to expand...

I was refuting the claim with an obvious exaggeration. In reality, the designers can just create content that their PCs can sort-of handle (say, 10 fps) and the consoles should be able to bring things up to 30 fps or so once the final silicon is out.

The only thing that would be tough is shader development, unless MS is using HLSL with a very good shader compiler. (I'd assume Sony is using Cg for their shaders.) Once final hardware is out, the devs can hand-tune their shaders, but for now, if there's a common set of tools, they can develop content beyond what PCs can do and then bring things up to speed on the console hardware.
 
EekTheKat said:
IMHO the footage was running with in game assets (shaders, models + textures), but the footage we saw was possibly augmented with certain effects after it was captured (such as the fire effect, etc..etc) due to time restraints from having to deliver on footage for the conference.
Click to expand...

No. The people behind the Killzone 'demo' said it themselves....that was a movie that took them 6 months to do, 'representing what they think they can do'.

Nothing in that movie of Killzone was real, unless you count that the movie actually exsisted.

No one will know what the PS3 can actually deliver until you start seeing games played on it, or its alpha/bets kits.
 
Tiny said:
No. The people behind the Killzone 'demo' said it themselves....that was a movie that took them 6 months to do, 'representing what they think they can do'.

Nothing in that movie of Killzone was real, unless you count that the movie actually exsisted.

No one will know what the PS3 can actually deliver until you start seeing games played on it, or its alpha/bets kits.
Click to expand...

QFT

There is no way that the Killzone footage is actually an in-game render. The complex explosions, soft shadows, minor/unneccessary details, etc all point to it being pre-rendered CG.
 
Everyone watch out for the game im making, im going to use Star Wars Footage to show everyone what i hope it wil look like.
 
It is most certainly CGI. Some developers are saying that is what they think they will be able to acheive but I doubt they will be able to acheive those sequences with as much detail as they have in their stills.
 
Killdozer said:
Maybe I'm just thinking too logically, but I can only say something is realtime when you can actually know someone is playing the game or if it's actual captures from the game console.

Usually I look for 'jerky movements' in the interface because to me that means someone is actually playing it. Also, I look for a HUD display or information on the screen like health, objectives and so on.

Most of the time you can just watch the movie and tell if its all rendered or not, it's pretty easy to tell. The only time I was surprised was when the stopped the Unreal Demo and started moving around in it.

From all the stuff I saw so far, there's only been a few actual in game movies. Most of these movies were at the end of the Sony conference.

I-8 looked like real gameplay.
Nothing in all the Killzone II stuff I saw was actual gameplay.
Gears of War, no gameplay yet
Some of the GT5 stuff in the Sony conference seemed to be real.
Getaway seemed real
Motor Storm, no gameplay.
PGR3 seemed to be real gameplay
Ghost Recon 3: No gameplay, but they did a very good job of hiding that
The Sony Unreal Demo: Real time, but it was still a demo with no actual gameplay, it was all scripted. It is a very good demo and shows that the PS3 is quite capable, the same goes for X360 with Gears of War...but it all changes when you add bots, other players, sounds, weapons, entire levels and so on. Things will probably change when they actuall make a game out of Unreal engine and not demos.



Either way, gameplay or not, this next generation of consoles looks like it's going to be fucking insane. I was in the boat of, 'yeah my PC will catch up in a year or so' but I'm not so sure of that anymore. It looks like Sony and MS pulled out all the stops.
Click to expand...

Using the HUD is not a good thing to look for. I played Doom 3 without a HUD, and it was much more exciting.
 
On today's G4 Live E3 Coverage, there was an interview with a major Sony guy who said that the Killzone trailer was 100% gameplay.
 
Requiem said:
On today's G4 Live E3 Coverage, there was an interview with a major Sony guy who said that the Killzone trailer was 100% gameplay.
Click to expand...

...deja-vu all over again. They said the "Face" demo of the PS2 was going to be seen on a broad scale in games but the system still hasn't come close to that level of detail.

Listening to a Sony PR Representative is like listening to an Army recruiter...1% truth and 110% bullshit.
 
How did that pig get in my backyard?? :p

Seriously though, anyone who believes that 99.9% of what Sony showed you was real in game footage has some reality to grip. Microsoft even showed more (not much more, but they at least showed SOME real in game stuff).

If you ask me, Sony and Nintendo are at about the same point in their system development. (X-box is releasing this year, so they HAVE To be ahead). The difference between S and N is that S is a bunch of bullshitting liars who want you to believe that scenes like Killzone is what you are to expect on PS3. BTW who actually WANTS to play a Killzone game anyway? Yech.
 
Requiem said:
On today's G4 Live E3 Coverage, there was an interview with a major Sony guy who said that the Killzone trailer was 100% gameplay.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there were actually interviews with two different Sony people on G4 today and they both said the Killzone sequence was made entirely with the game engine (rather than "gameplay"). I don't believe the game will be anywhere near that level of detail. The G4 talking heads didn't seem convinced either.

As for Gears of War, the public footage may not be gameplay, but I read that they are showing the press 15-20 minutes of 2 playable levels behind closed doors. They said the game is only about 30% done and, for example, the player doesn't currently take any damage.
 
WickedAngel said:
...deja-vu all over again. They said the "Face" demo of the PS2 was going to be seen on a broad scale in games but the system still hasn't come close to that level of detail.

Listening to a Sony PR Representative is like listening to an Army recruiter...1% truth and 110% bullshit.
Click to expand...

:D

I still have that clip here somewhere. I've forgotten about it 'til you mentioned it :D None of the games that came actually took full advantage of the hardware? I'm not a console gamer so i didn't pay attention to the games released, but i'd assumed atleast one game that did would have come out :confused:
 
Killzone is definatly prerendered, on the otherhand other engines like Unreal3 look amazing and not to far off...
 
i saw one optimization in the video. the peoples shadows did not extend over the bridge on to the turf below.


givin how simple the background looked i could believe it was realtime.

that was definately not gameplay. but there was no cursor and the movement was not very console like (way too fluid)

if they put all power in 4 characters on the screen at a time i could believe it is realtime rendering

lots of soft imprecise shadows, and simple lighting shaders, bump mapping on the ground, and the smoke may not be really rendered at all. didnt they decode 100 HD streams on screen at the demo. how much of the individual effects could be prerendered?

the only thing that makes me think it isnt realtime is the detail on the character, which feels about the same level as the fight night demo.

i think it is realtime. i love nvidia.

but if it took 6months for those few minutes. we are screwed
 
yeah, these videos are already floating around, check this one out

army guy

doesnt mean anything to me. Will just have to wait another year.
Ocean said:
i saw one optimization in the video. the peoples shadows did not extend over the bridge on to the turf below.


givin how simple the background looked i could believe it was realtime.

that was definately not gameplay. but there was no cursor and the movement was not very console like (way too fluid)

if they put all power in 4 characters on the screen at a time i could believe it is realtime rendering

lots of soft imprecise shadows, and simple lighting shaders, bump mapping on the ground, and the smoke may not be really rendered at all. didnt they decode 100 HD streams on screen at the demo. how much of the individual effects could be prerendered?

the only thing that makes me think it isnt realtime is the detail on the character, which feels about the same level as the fight night demo.

i think it is realtime. i love nvidia.

but if it took 6months for those few minutes. we are screwed
Click to expand...
 
sculelos said:
Killzone is definatly prerendered, on the otherhand other engines like Unreal3 look amazing and not to far off...
Click to expand...
That Unreal tech demo probably also demonstrates what the XBOX will be able to do/can already do. It's all too early for comparisions, as the development for XBOX games far more mature than that of the PS3's. I don't think we'll be able to make any accurate comparisons until next winter/spring.

Still, it's an exciting time.
 
Can anybody repost the link to the article where one of the developers said that Unreal and a couple of other EA games were the only ones doing real time? I can't find it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top