Poll: Do you play with an inverted mouse?

Do you use the invert mouse for gaming?


  • Total voters
    69

Comixbooks

Fully [H]
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
18,357
I'm waiting till Sept. for Pathfinder then 2nd one to add controller support. I hate using keyboard and mouse due to leaning over.
 

sharknice

2[H]4U
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Nov 12, 2012
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2,858
Inverted controller is kinda weird, buto your brain is just broken if you use inverted mouse.
 
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Zepher

[H]ipster Replacement
Joined
Sep 29, 2001
Messages
19,388
Inverted controller is kinda weird, buto your brain is just broken if you use inverted mouse.
What is really odd is my friend uses a mouse totally backwards. the front of the mouse faces him so up is down, left is right, etc.. I guess it's something in his head since that is like so strange.
 

sharknice

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
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2,858
It's not if you flight sim... Play a bit and you just adapt.

Yeah it's easy to adapt to inverted and play fine with it, but logically it does not make any sense.

Regular:
Move mouse up - you look up
Move mouse right - you look right
You simply look where you move the mouse. It's completely logical.

Inverted:
Move mouse up - you look down
Move mouse right - you look right
Doesn't make any logical sense. Left and right should also be inverted to have any sort of logical consistency.

I understand using inverted for flight games because that's how the controls work on an actual airplane, even though actual airplanes do not use thumb joysticks found on controllers, or a mouse.... So maybe you started out playing flight games, then wanted to keep those controls when play other games. So it can sort of make sense if that's your game history. It's way less logical than simply using regular controls though.
 

prtzlboy

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
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1,723
Inverted y axis on everything that uses first person perspective.

And esdf is where your fingers go. Wasd is an abomination. Why would you move your hand off home row position? THAT doesn't make any sense.
 

LurkerLito

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
2,457
Invert Y on mouse and controller yes. If the game doesn't offer the invert Y option I won't even consider buying it because to me the game is broken. System shock completely screwed with me IIRC. It had invert Y for the game, but in the simulated VR space it didn't apply. So when you had to do stuff there I was screwed lol.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
12,793
I used to play inverted, but kicked the habit around the late 90s or early 2000s, I don't recall when exactly. Before mouse look was a thing I used to play everything with a joystick, so it was only natural that forward is down, and back is up. Also the majority of games I played in the early to mid 90s were some sort of flying games. Wing Commander, X-Wing, Tie Fighter, 1942PAW, LHX, Overlord, Tornado, Retaliatior, Flight Unlimited, MS Flight Sim, and so on. So it just carried over to FPS-es when we first discovered the +mlook console command.
 

Sprkd1

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
342
Used to play inverted when I started playing FPS games in the 90s. However, I forced myself to switch to non-inverted shortly after.
 

LurkerLito

2[H]4U
Joined
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I used to play inverted, but kicked the habit around the late 90s or early 2000s, I don't recall when exactly. Before mouse look was a thing I used to play everything with a joystick, so it was only natural that forward is down, and back is up. Also the majority of games I played in the early to mid 90s were some sort of flying games. Wing Commander, X-Wing, Tie Fighter, 1942PAW, LHX, Overlord, Tornado, Retaliatior, Flight Unlimited, MS Flight Sim, and so on. So it just carried over to FPS-es when we first discovered the +mlook console command.

Used to play inverted when I started playing FPS games in the 90s. However, I forced myself to switch to non-inverted shortly after.

I did try to switch, but it was just too unnatural a feeling that I made a decision that no invert Y = no buy as a game purchase policy. If I wasn't actively concentrating on reversing Y in my head it didn't happen. IIRC I tried to switch with Doom 3 (I think) and every time I had a need to quickly shoot something my head shots turned into foot shots, not to even mention I am one of those that do get nauseous in FPS games and the nausea it caused me when what happened on screen went against what my head wanted to happen just wasn't worth it.
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
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12,793
I did not force myself, it wasn't a conscious effort, just happened naturally.
 

sharknice

2[H]4U
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I did try to switch, but it was just too unnatural a feeling that I made a decision that no invert Y = no buy as a game purchase policy. If I wasn't actively concentrating on reversing Y in my head it didn't happen. IIRC I tried to switch with Doom 3 (I think) and every time I had a need to quickly shoot something my head shots turned into foot shots, not to even mention I am one of those that do get nauseous in FPS games and the nausea it caused me when what happened on screen went against what my head wanted to happen just wasn't worth it.
Playing inverted messed up your brain, that's why you get nauseous
 

ChosenUno

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,313
Inverted y axis on everything that uses first person perspective.

And esdf is where your fingers go. Wasd is an abomination. Why would you move your hand off home row position? THAT doesn't make any sense.

WASD is so that you can use Ctrl, Shift, Alt, Tab and even Caps Lock more easily, sitting at esdf strains your pinky and thumb.

How do you inverted gamers even use the mouse for non-game tasks? That would screw me up so bad.
 

Axman

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Messages
12,106
You're just going to get weirdos who are telling you inverted controls are fun with this poll. It was a thing from the late '80s and early '90s and it's never been relevant, not even in its time.

It was a cheap way to emulate owning a real joystick or yoke back in the day.

There, I said it.
 

GoldenTiger

Fully [H]
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
Messages
24,059
You're just going to get weirdos who are telling you inverted controls are fun with this poll. It was a thing from the late '80s and early '90s and it's never been relevant, not even in its time.

It was a cheap way to emulate owning a real joystick or yoke back in the day.

There, I said it.
Your brain is wired wrong if you don't use inverted mouse on most genres! :)
 

Axman

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Messages
12,106
Your brain is wired wrong if you don't use inverted mouse on most genres! :)

My brain was vulnerable to inverted controls as a child, but then I played Wing Commander IV with both a multi-axis joystick and then a mouse, and discovered that the mouse controls were superior.

Like all things PC.
 

LurkerLito

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
2,457
Playing inverted messed up your brain, that's why you get nauseous
The only thing messed up is that invert Y isn't the default. Every vehicle that flys uses inverted Y. I am more worried some pilot gamer played the latest FPS game till the last minute then got into a plane with their brain all wired wrong from playing it with the controls defaulted and causes an accident. Then again I doubt anyone who pilots a plane would have game settings other setting than Invert Y. :)

How do you inverted gamers even use the mouse for non-game tasks? That would screw me up so bad.
Non-gaming is a completely different thing. Inverted is only in games because you control a "vehicle". That "vehicle" = plane, the person you control while looking out their eyes, the camera that is mounted over a game character shoulder, etc...
 

prtzlboy

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Messages
1,723
WASD is so that you can use Ctrl, Shift, Alt, Tab and even Caps Lock more easily, sitting at esdf strains your pinky and thumb.

How do you inverted gamers even use the mouse for non-game tasks? That would screw me up so bad.
There's your problem: you think you need those big buttons as your defaults. There's more keys within reach without lifting your hand using esdf.

I played ogl ladder q2ctf back in the day with a team that wasn't all fluent in English. I had literally every key on my keyboard bound to a hotkey macro or team chat macro (since voice chat was limited due to language barrier), and could hit every key without looking, as well as transition between typing and playing in the blink of an eye.
 

MavericK

Zero Cool
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
31,330
Inverted mouse is weird.

Inverted controller used to be the norm because I never changed it when I was a kid and that's how I learned it, and still do it to this day. Not sure when it switched to non-inverted being the norm but it didn't used to be.
 

Axman

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Messages
12,106
Inverted controller used to be the norm because I never changed it when I was a kid and that's how I learned it, and still do it to this day. Not sure when it switched to non-inverted being the norm but it didn't used to be.

It was absolutely the standard the entire time, it's only flight sims that inverted the mouse to mimic better controllers. Gamers who started on flight sims then moved to other 3D games wanted to keep their backward standard, and that's how it became an option.

This isn't a matter of opinion, this is gaming history. Inverted controls were never normal. They weren't even normal in flight sims. They were the backwards mouse alternative for poors who couldn't get a joystick or a yoke.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
31,400
Inverted on both, in every type of game. Imagine the camera floating behind you in third-person. When the camera moves down your perspective will shift up and vice-versa. Same concept as if the mouse would be attached to the head of your character in first-person. Logically, "normal" vertical control doesn't make any sense.
 

GotNoRice

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
10,844
No inverted on mouse. I use my mouse for much more than just character movement, but even just talking about character movement it would still be weird. It would probably be easier to adapt to when using a controller, but I have not played Console games since the 20th century.
 

travm

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
1,712
Inverted on both, in every type of game. Imagine the camera floating behind you in third-person. When the camera moves down your perspective will shift up and vice-versa. Same concept as if the mouse would be attached to the head of your character in first-person. Logically, "normal" vertical control doesn't make any sense.
I don't use inverted anymore, not since the 90s, but to everyone saying that inverted controls were never normal, must be under 30, or lived under a rock.
When inverted controls were normal, I used them. Now I don't. They are perfectly natural and easy to get used to. I expect i could switch back in an evening gaming session
 

MavericK

Zero Cool
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
31,330
It was absolutely the standard the entire time, it's only flight sims that inverted the mouse to mimic better controllers. Gamers who started on flight sims then moved to other 3D games wanted to keep their backward standard, and that's how it became an option.

This isn't a matter of opinion, this is gaming history. Inverted controls were never normal. They weren't even normal in flight sims. They were the backwards mouse alternative for poors who couldn't get a joystick or a yoke.

It must depend on the game because as I said, I never changed the controls to inverted but that is how I learned it and still use it today, so something must have had it be the default.
 
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travm

[H]ard|Gawd
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It must depend on the game because as I said, I never changed the controls to inverted but that is how I learned it and still use it today, so something must have had it be the default.
Duke3d definately had inverted as default. Wolfenstein3d, I don't know. I didn't have a mouse when I played it..
 

Pulsar

Gawd
Joined
Jan 16, 2001
Messages
865
I used a joystick for a lot of the old flight sims and switched over to using KBM in Doom 2. I was using only the keyboard for Wolf3d and Doom. However, Descent was the first 1st person shooter I played that allowed us to move in a 3d space and I used inverted mouse for that and it stuck with me for any game that has the ability to look up/down since then.
 

sharknice

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
2,858
Inverted on both, in every type of game. Imagine the camera floating behind you in third-person. When the camera moves down your perspective will shift up and vice-versa. Same concept as if the mouse would be attached to the head of your character in first-person. Logically, "normal" vertical control doesn't make any sense.

No. LEFT/RIGHT would also be reversed.

See what I mean guys??? His brain is F'd up from playing inverted.
 

MacLeod

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
8,054
I started playing video games on a Commodore 64 and I played a lot of flight sun games. F15, Gunship and Spitfire Ace to name a few and it was always push forward to look down, pull back to look up. It just made sense to me. If was was controlling someone's head, if push it forward to make him look down and pull it back to make him look up.

I know we're a rare breed but it my mind, it's the only way it makes sense lol
 

M76

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
12,793
Inverted:
Move mouse up - you look down
Move mouse right - you look right
Doesn't make any logical sense. Left and right should also be inverted to have any sort of logical consistency.

That's completely bonkers.

Mouse forward = Camera Pitch down
Mouse backward = Camera Pitch up
Mouse Right = Camera Yaw Right
Mouse Left = Camera Yaw Left

Oh no, suddenly it is logical!

if you think of the screen as a 2D surface, where you move the crosshair or cursor, then up being forward is logical, but the game world is a 3D space. Where you move the camera orientation. The crosshair is not the actual thing you are controlling, it is just a visual cue. I always thought what we call inverted aiming should actually be regular, despite of the fact that I'm not using inverted aiming myself.
 

sharknice

2[H]4U
Joined
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Messages
2,858
That's completely bonkers.

Mouse forward = Camera Pitch down
Mouse backward = Camera Pitch up
Mouse Right = Camera Yaw Right
Mouse Left = Camera Yaw Left

Oh no, suddenly it is logical!

if you think of the screen as a 2D surface, where you move the crosshair or cursor, then up being forward is logical, but the game world is a 3D space. Where you move the camera orientation. The crosshair is not the actual thing you are controlling, it is just a visual cue. I always thought what we call inverted aiming should actually be regular, despite of the fact that I'm not using inverted aiming myself.

Sorry, but changing what you call it doesn't magically make it logical. That's fallacy 101 stuff that only someone with a brain that's been DISEASED by years of inverted use would think is ok.
Rotate the screen 90 degrees and rotate your mouse 90 degrees. It doesn't work anymore because it's inconsistent and illogical.

It's very simple. Imagine placing your mouse on your screen. Your camera looks where you move your mouse. You can even actually place your mouse on your screen and see it in real life if playing inverted has compeltely ruined your ability to imagine things.
 

ND40oz

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
12,590
Sorry, but changing what you call it doesn't magically make it logical. That's fallacy 101 stuff that only someone with a brain that's been DISEASED by years of inverted use would think is ok.
Rotate the screen 90 degrees and rotate your mouse 90 degrees. It doesn't work anymore because it's inconsistent and illogical.

It's very simple. Imagine placing your mouse on your screen. Your camera looks where you move your mouse. You can even actually place your mouse on your screen and see it in real life if playing inverted has compeltely ruined your ability to imagine things.

You probably push up to upshift too on a sequential gearbox when everyone knows you pull back because that's the way momentum is carrying you. It's the same with an inverted joystick, you pull back to bring the nose up which carries over into FPS games.
 

Youn

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
5,931
1st person view = normal
3rd person view = inverted
and i will NEVER play fucking 1st person with a frucking controller, who the hell has time for that shit...
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
20,683
Nope. I have a couple friends that play that way with analog sticks, though. I'm convinced it's how our brains are wired. Either way, I'm glad my brain is wired for the default setting.
 
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