Police 'Stumped' by New Car Theft Technology

MajorDomo

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What was that Mr. Scott said about sophisticated Starship’s plumbing? Something about the more advanced it is, the easier it is to stop up the drain. Well apply that to the new-tech secure car locking systems. California police have been left scratching their heads by the use of a small unknown electrical device that isn’t slowed down one bit by the latest keyless locking technology. Nothing like having your own electronic skeleton key for the car model of your choice. :eek:

"This is really frustrating because clearly they've figured out something that looks really simple and whatever it is they're doing, it takes just seconds to do."
 

Monkey God

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Its probably a back-door or a bug in the systems. Many car manufacturers use the same system.
 

jojo69

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simply no replacement for actual, physical, security...ever
 

Ashbringer

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Probably a back-door to make it easy to get customer doors unlocked when they accidentally left the keys inside. Only works on passenger side, so that maybe a clue. Also doesn't seem to work on GM and Ford products, at least that's what I gather from the video. Maybe domestic cars aren't effected.
 

Outamyhead

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It's a specific frequency for the key, makes sense to me anyway, just need something to broadcast the right code.
 

Semantics

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Probably a back-door to make it easy to get customer doors unlocked when they accidentally left the keys inside. Only works on passenger side, so that maybe a clue. Also doesn't seem to work on GM and Ford products, at least that's what I gather from the video. Maybe domestic cars aren't effected.
Be my guess considering that in both videos it seems the theifs are looking for valuables in the car to steal not to steal the car itself. Although that could just be by choice easier to move some things then others going for the lower risk items.
 
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It occurs to me that the most potent security system I have installed in my car is the manual gearbox.
 

sfsuphysics

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Hendricks said that the force has been in discussions with car manufacturers and mechanics to try and find out what the device is, but so far have had no luck and are appealing to the public for information.
A quick search on google found me this
http://hacknmod.com/hack/hack-your-keyless-car-fob-to-unlock-all-of-your-cars/

basically allows you to program multiple cars on one fob... and do so EASILY, granted these are similar makes of car, but if it's that easy to do it, then it's not surprising that there's a workaround to make a generic "master". Hell I'm unsure why they don't just try and find one of these devices on the streets, looking at the videos they don't exactly look like sophisticated people using these devices, wouldn't surprise me if they had some connection to auto-repair shops either. That Illinois video it looked like the guy just was walking by pressing the button then stopped when he found one that his fob worked on.
 

Spidey329

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It occurs to me that the most potent security system I have installed in my car is the manual gearbox.

Well, no woman would steal it anyways ..


*ding ding* And this concludes my sexist joke of the day quota! Thank you folks, see you next Monday.

But in all reality. Why don't they just offer a reward for the device? I'm sure one of these crooks would flip for a four figure sum, and you might get the car makers to fund it. It's bad press if their keyless system is so easily defeated.

Look at some of the German manufacturers, they're constantly changing technology to stay ahead. As others have said, it's probably some bug or backdoor that no-one ever thought to fix. Just like when slot-machines get hacked, it's always a bug (or debug mode) that no-one thought would ever get out or be found, so they don't invest in fixing it.

Think about it. If you lose all your keys. Where are you going to go? The dealership or a locksmith. How are they going to generate you a new electric key? There has to be an admin in there somewhere, just like with a domain.
 

sfsuphysics

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It occurs to me that the most potent security system I have installed in my car is the manual gearbox.

That only protects your car from theft, which isn't the issue in most of these cases, it's theft of what's inside. Which you're pretty fucking stupid to use a car as if it was a lockbox anyways.

That said someone steals my automatic transmission car with wireless entry/ignition, no big deal, I file a police report, file a claim with my insurance, pay a deductible and get a replacement car or a check that I can apply towards a new one.
 

Dwango

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Its probably a back-door or a bug in the systems. Many car manufacturers use the same system.

It looks more like they're using a small repeater to connect the key fobs inside the house to the cars with passive unlock systems. Turn it on and the car thinks the fob is within the 30 foot range and unlocks the door when the handle is grabbed. That would also explain the fact that they're not stealing the cars in question (assuming they're push-button start) because they'd only get to the end of the block before the car shut down on them. And also why none of the cars they're robbing are older models. Walk down the block with the newer vehicles on it with the repeater on and just test every passenger door and I bet you can open at least a half dozen of them.
 

Burticus

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I better get a guard dog and keep it locked in the car while I am away then.
 

collegeboy69us

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It looks more like they're using a small repeater to connect the key fobs inside the house to the cars with passive unlock systems. Turn it on and the car thinks the fob is within the 30 foot range and unlocks the door when the handle is grabbed. That would also explain the fact that they're not stealing the cars in question (assuming they're push-button start) because they'd only get to the end of the block before the car shut down on them. And also why none of the cars they're robbing are older models. Walk down the block with the newer vehicles on it with the repeater on and just test every passenger door and I bet you can open at least a half dozen of them.

Just an FYI -- modern push to start wireless FOB models do NOT shut the car down if it happens to lose a signal with the FOB.

My 08 Z06 (sadly sold it to buy a house a few weeks ago) had the full wireless system. Walk up to the car, and it unlocks automatically because it sees the key. Push the button and it starts right up (again because it sees the key)

If for whatever reason I'd stop, get out, and not have the FOB with me (engine still running) you could drive 100 miles with no issue. OF course if you turned the car off you wouldn't be able to restart it but that's not the issue.

Hell in the z06 - if you didn't have the FOB, and tried to turn the engine off, it would even ask you on the dash "No fob detected, sure you want to shut the engine off?" and give you a chance to keep it running with no keys in sight.
 

Thuleman

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Pretty simple way to not get your car stolen is to drive one that's not worth stealing. No one ever looks at my 95 VM, 89 Honda, and 84 Suburban, they run, they are paid for, they are inexpensive to insure. I will never ever in a million years understand why people buy new flashy cars. A car is a tool, like a hammer, it needs to work, that is its only functional requirement.
 

Jorona

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Pretty simple way to not get your car stolen is to drive one that's not worth stealing. No one ever looks at my 95 VM, 89 Honda, and 84 Suburban, they run, they are paid for, they are inexpensive to insure. I will never ever in a million years understand why people buy new flashy cars. A car is a tool, like a hammer, it needs to work, that is its only functional requirement.

I don't understand why people buy new flashy computers either. I mean seriously, it just needs to work.

/sarcasm

Some people see cars as status symbols, others are enthusiasts about speed or design.

There is one thing someone up the thread said though. Most police departments say that Manual Transmission cars are the minority in stolen vehicles. So drive a stick.
 

ND40oz

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It looked like they were breaking into two Acura's and a Honda in the video, they also mentioned that it didn't work on a Ford. It would be nice if they told us if there were any other types of vehicles they were breaking into.
 

NLW

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Still can't understand why this stuff is so popular now. What's so tough about using a key in a lock?

I'd say my rusty '95 Civic with standard transmission and a door that requires a real key to open is about the most secure car in the country! :p
 

J So

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That Illinois video it looked like the guy just was walking by pressing the button then stopped when he found one that his fob worked on.

I noticed that as well. Going bet this is pretty low tech, much like when they just filed down the keys from the 80's cars and discovered they opened the doors to almost any car.
 

cyclone3d

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Still can't understand why this stuff is so popular now. What's so tough about using a key in a lock?

I'd say my rusty '95 Civic with standard transmission and a door that requires a real key to open is about the most secure car in the country! :p

Ever heard of a slim-jim?
 

FiveFig

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Pretty simple way to not get your car stolen is to drive one that's not worth stealing. No one ever looks at my 95 VM, 89 Honda, and 84 Suburban, they run, they are paid for, they are inexpensive to insure. I will never ever in a million years understand why people buy new flashy cars. A car is a tool, like a hammer, it needs to work, that is its only functional requirement.

Pretty simple way to not get your computer hacked is to use one not worth hacking. No one ever designs malware for my 386 anymore. It runs, is paid for, and is inexpensive to replace. I will never ever in a million billion trillion years understand why people buy new flashy computers!!! A computer is a tool, like a hammer, it needs to work, that is its only functional requirement... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

Jagger100

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I don't understand why people buy new flashy computers either. I mean seriously, it just needs to work.

/sarcasm

Some people see cars as status symbols, others are enthusiasts about speed or design.

There is one thing someone up the thread said though. Most police departments say that Manual Transmission cars are the minority in stolen vehicles. So drive a stick.
Cars use to be fun in themselves as well as they use to get you laid.
 

kdh

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Still can't understand why this stuff is so popular now. What's so tough about using a key in a lock?

I'd say my rusty '95 Civic with standard transmission and a door that requires a real key to open is about the most secure car in the country! :p

I can't understand why someone would spend 1k on video cards, and sli them together to play video games.

my crappy pentium 3 plays quake just fine and is the best game in the world! ;)

I shaved the door handles from my blazer, removed the door linkage, welded metal plates in place, did the body work and painted over it. Can't open the door if there is no handle.. I use my after market alarm to pop my doors open. No one will ever defeat that..

oh wait.. *kicks dirt*
 
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I primarily work on Ford/Lincoln/Mercury vehicles. I have programed many keys and FOBS. There is no manufacturer back door as some have suggested. In fact, even with our Ford diagnostic tools, we still have security checks and time limits to over come. These checks are there to even keep the mechanics with the tools to change locks and security protections honest.
Ford also records every time I request a key code to cut a key via the VIN.
I am not saying that Ford can not be broken into. I also unlock cars for people that have locked their keys up on the road. I have broken into every single vehicle I have attempted no matter the make or model.
 

az_max

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Just an FYI -- modern push to start wireless FOB models do NOT shut the car down if it happens to lose a signal with the FOB.

My 08 Z06 (sadly sold it to buy a house a few weeks ago) had the full wireless system. Walk up to the car, and it unlocks automatically because it sees the key. Push the button and it starts right up (again because it sees the key)

If for whatever reason I'd stop, get out, and not have the FOB with me (engine still running) you could drive 100 miles with no issue. OF course if you turned the car off you wouldn't be able to restart it but that's not the issue.

Hell in the z06 - if you didn't have the FOB, and tried to turn the engine off, it would even ask you on the dash "No fob detected, sure you want to shut the engine off?" and give you a chance to keep it running with no keys in sight.

Early systems also didn't lock unless the car was put in park or reverse. Thieves learned to look for cars/trucks still in gear (auto) or neutral (auto or manual). Break in, press start and drive away. Just don't put it in park.
 

leeleatherwood

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Pretty simple way to not get your woman stolen is to marry one that's not worth stealing. No one ever looks at my fat nasty hillbilly wife, she cooks, she is paid for, she are inexpensive to feed. I will never ever in a million years understand why people get hot bitches. A vagina is a tool, like a hammer, it needs to work, that is its only functional requirement.

:eek:
 

Qinsp

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Well, no woman would steal it anyways ..


....

My wife would probably own your ass in a MANual trans. In 2002 she drove a stock 2002 Z06 Corvette to 11.95 ET in the quarter. MotorTrend ran like 12.6 in one at the same track.

She bangs dem gears. She learned on farm tractors as a kid, and has a NHRA SuperGas competition license.
 

matteos

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simply no replacement for actual, physical, security...ever

eh, my wifes 98 honda civic has been broken into 3 times (With a net total of one pair of flip flops stolen and several thousand dollars worth of damage) It was broken into each time apparently by a key of a similar size which was then turned with some force...

At least this way the wankers don't damage the car.
 

Qinsp

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For late GM products:

You must have a key that will turn the ign lock or use a big screwdriver.

Try to start it, then turn the key back to run. DO NOT TURN IT TO OFF.

Wait 10 minutes (time it). The security light will go off.

Try to start again, then turn key back to run. ditto.

On the third cycle, it will ignore the VIN/Keycode differences in the various modules and will start.

It takes 30 minutes, but defeats the electronic VATS (Vehicle Anti-Theft System).

If you have a Tech 2, you can do it in under 1 minute.

Yes, I have done it and it works. It's documented by GM.
 

leeleatherwood

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For late GM products:

You must have a key that will turn the ign lock or use a big screwdriver.

Try to start it, then turn the key back to run. DO NOT TURN IT TO OFF.

Wait 10 minutes (time it). The security light will go off.

Try to start again, then turn key back to run. ditto.

On the third cycle, it will ignore the VIN/Keycode differences in the various modules and will start.

It takes 30 minutes, but defeats the electronic VATS (Vehicle Anti-Theft System).

If you have a Tech 2, you can do it in under 1 minute.

Yes, I have done it and it works. It's documented by GM.

haha nice.

Should it work on a 2010 Cadillac CTS? I want to try it on mine.
 
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