Pointing A Laser At A Police Helicopter Is An Idiotic Idea

Silentbob343

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Got live video evidence of this "blinding light"? I'm all for completely banning their sale if true (Thus making owning them illegal). But I'm not buying verbal recounts from unknowns. Proof is required by those making these claims. Not those refusing to accept conjecture at best.
That is the second time you have asked for proof or evidence, where is yours showing them to not be a safety hazard to pilots/aircraft? The sword cuts both ways.

Is it really that hard to not point a laser at aircraft? They shouldn't have to ban laser pointers if people can simply act responsibly. I am not sure what you are arguing for.

From the site I qouted earlier:
Laser pointers may be banned
In 2012, laser-aircraft incidents happened more than nine times each night in the U.S. You can understand that pilots and the FAA are upset about this. If laser pointers were banned in the U.S., this would be fine with them. Some U.S. cities, such as Ocean City MD, Ocean City NJ, and Myrtle Beach SC have severely restricted or banned laser pointer sales and possession. New Jersey’s legislature passed a bill to ban laser pointer sales above 1 mW; the bill was vetoed by the Governor. New Zealand in 2013 restricted laser pointer sales above 1 mW. Countries such as Canada and the U.K. also are considering bans on laser pointer sales.

So if you like using laser pointers, don’t add to the long lists of aviation and non-aviation laser incidents.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Point blank vs miles and miles away = same thing, got. NOT What a stupid thing to even insinuate.
Lasers are not flashlights.

They are highly focused directional light energy, and as such they don't degrade very much, even over a few miles. A little bit, but not much. They will definitely still do damage to a pilots eyes at that range, and several have been seen by ophthalmologists after incidents like this.

Yeah no, that an't shit. Annoying maybe, dangerous hardly. The first part of that is a camera see'ing it. That will always be so much worse because of the glass on the camera in proximity of the recording sensor. i'm sorry it's just a annoyance. I don't agree with people doing it because it's a shithead thing to do, but hardly criminal.
I have not been in a cockpit during a laser incident, but I am told it is not just an effect due to the camera. Apparently the laser scintillates when it hits the plexiglass windows, making the experience pretty bad.

Even if this weren't the case, would you want to be driving a car while someone is flashing a laser at you? What might you miss while you are trying to stop the laser from "annoying" you. The car in front of you slowing down? The fact that you are moving into oncoming traffic? A pedestrian crossing the road? Add to that, that piloting an aircraft is MUCH More demanding than driving a car. Anything that distracts the pilot is a problem, and lasers go way beyond distraction.

I'm all for throwing the book at these people if caught. Send them to jail for a decade. Give them some time to think about what they've done.
 

Vercinaigh

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Zarathustra[H];1041811623 said:
Don't make the assumption i agree with doing it. there's a difference between agree'ing with it, and considering it criminal. Also, videos posted so far clearly show it's not that bad lol. Not enough to be criminal, they deal with worse via mother nature on a regular basis. It's so far proving to be hyperbole.

Also you stare at the sun and you go blind after awhile, they have to deal with that all the time, they're not blind.
 

FighterAce124

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Don't make the assumption i agree with doing it. there's a difference between agree'ing with it, and considering it criminal. Also, videos posted so far clearly show it's not that bad lol. Not enough to be criminal, they deal with worse via mother nature on a regular basis. It's so far proving to be hyperbole.

Also you stare at the sun and you go blind after awhile, they have to deal with that all the time, they're not blind.
No, a pilot does not stare directly into the sun, unless they're a proper retard.

They can avoid looking at the sun, they cant avoid some asshat trying to flash with a laser.
You may think you're correct, but you're not. I have personally been in a cockpit thats been flashed, as has my brother in law. It is *not* a "minor annoyance". Give it a real try before you attempt to downplay what it's like. You're speaking out of pure ignorance rather than experience.
 

Vercinaigh

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No, a pilot does not stare directly into the sun, unless they're a proper retard.

They can avoid looking at the sun, they cant avoid some asshat trying to flash with a laser.
You may think you're correct, but you're not. I have personally been in a cockpit thats been flashed, as has my brother in law. It is *not* a "minor annoyance". Give it a real try before you attempt to downplay what it's like. You're speaking out of pure ignorance rather than experience.
And thus far you are making anecdotal evidence as proof. Sorry, you may think that's right, but it's not. See how that works? Jail time under such is never going to happen. Again, they deal with WORSE BY A LOT from nature. Hence instruments to guide you. When you can't see the nose of your plane because of weather, I think that's much worse. yet they deal with it fine.
 
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And thus far you are making anecdotal evidence as proof. Sorry, you may think that's right, but it's not. See how that works? Jail time under such is never going to happen. Again, they deal with WORSE BY A LOT from nature. Hence instruments to guide you. When you can't see the nose of your plane because of weather, I think that's much worse. yet they deal with it fine.
so how are they going to see the instruments when they've been temporarily blinded?

you remind me of a poster on a different forum who claimed cannabis oil cured everything, turns out he wanted to hawk his cannabis oil.

you wouldn't happen to be selling laser pointers would you? thus your vigorous denials
 

Vercinaigh

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so how are they going to see the instruments when they've been temporarily blinded?

you remind me of a poster on a different forum who claimed cannabis oil cured everything, turns out he wanted to hawk his cannabis oil.

you wouldn't happen to be selling laser pointers would you? thus your vigorous denials
No, i don't own any, I don't really care about them. I more care about over reaction and hyperbole which is all this seems to be. The one live video so far wasn't that big of a deal at all.
 

Silentbob343

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That applies to you as well.

You also didn't answer my question. What is your position in this? What are you arguing?

Do you believe laser owners should be allowed to shine lasers at planes or that they shouldn't be banned? I don't agree with the former, but I do agree on the latter.

It is a fact that lasers can cause temporary and/or permanent visual aberrations, this is well documented. Sorry the testing of a particular scenario isn't up to your rigorous scientific standards, but It seems like common sense you shouldn't use them in a way that would cause potential complications in an activity that vision is critical for, i.e. flying, driving, or whilst a doctor is performing surgery. I mean, this isn't hard concept why invite risk with no reward? So you you can say "Hur-dur, I hit that plane with my laser"?

I also provided you evidence that lasers can be banned for that act, if you don't want them to be banned you should probably not do it.

I am not saying that shining a laser causes an airliner to fall from the sky nor am I saying they should be banned. They should be used in a responsible manner or they can be banned.
 

Vercinaigh

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-snip-[/COLOR][/B]
Again, I do not own any, really could care less if they vanished all together, about the only thing they are good for is getting a rise out of cats and dogs.

My position is people like to hyperbole EVERYTHING and "Throw the everyone I don't agree with in jail or chop their fingers off!". It's fucking ludicrous, but too many vocal minorities spout it all too often. I never debated prolonged exposure won't hurt your eyes. But they are not getting DIRECT exposure, for one, and the windshield isn't just everyday glass for two. And for three they deal with the sun in the SAME manner for MUCH longer periods of time. they're fine, nobody dies over the sun in a plane.

It's being over blown like SOOOOOOOOOO many other things before it. yes, prolonged exposure might hurt your eyes, nothing to debate there, the debate is that even a factor here? Almost certainly not, no more so then the sun. so that's not a case to even be made. Can it be completely debilitating? Maybe but not one person has provided burden of proof that was not anecdotal evidence which would never hold up for instituting law, period.
 

Vercinaigh

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Anyways said my piece nothing more to say in this circular debate that no one will ever see to agree on. And ultimately doesn't matter at all, so i'm out :D
 

#1RAGE

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Again, I do not own any, really could care less if they vanished all together, about the only thing they are good for is getting a rise out of cats and dogs.

My position is people like to hyperbole EVERYTHING and "Throw the everyone I don't agree with in jail or chop their fingers off!". It's fucking ludicrous, but too many vocal minorities spout it all too often. I never debated prolonged exposure won't hurt your eyes. But they are not getting DIRECT exposure, for one, and the windshield isn't just everyday glass for two. And for three they deal with the sun in the SAME manner for MUCH longer periods of time. they're fine, nobody dies over the sun in a plane.

It's being over blown like SOOOOOOOOOO many other things before it. yes, prolonged exposure might hurt your eyes, nothing to debate there, the debate is that even a factor here? Almost certainly not, no more so then the sun. so that's not a case to even be made. Can it be completely debilitating? Maybe but not one person has provided burden of proof that was not anecdotal evidence which would never hold up for instituting law, period.
*facepalm*

You do realize the sun doesn't randomly come out at night and get focused into a beam that is actively aiming at the airplane/cockpit. How is a pilot getting temporarily blinded overblown? Just wow!
 

DKS

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The original video shown this week in Toronto media shows how distracting the laser was in the cockpit of the helicopter. This is not an "old story". As for effects of laser exposure, there are documented cases of eye damage during the Cold War when Russians used lasers on RCN personnel. It's serious. Just don't do it.
 

Obi_Kwiet

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Got live video evidence of this "blinding light"? I'm all for completely banning their sale if true (Thus making owning them illegal). But I'm not buying verbal recounts from unknowns. Proof is required by those making these claims. Not those refusing to accept conjecture at best.
Video cameras don't work the same way an eye does. It's a well known phenomenon. If you can't take the professional's word for it that it's a safety issue, I don't see why anyone should bother to care about your skepticism.
 

Obi_Kwiet

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Laser pointers may be banned
In 2012, laser-aircraft incidents happened more than nine times each night in the U.S. You can understand that pilots and the FAA are upset about this. If laser pointers were banned in the U.S., this would be fine with them. Some U.S. cities, such as Ocean City MD, Ocean City NJ, and Myrtle Beach /quote]SC have severely restricted or banned laser pointer sales and possession. New Jersey’s legislature passed a bill to ban laser pointer sales above 1 mW; the bill was vetoed by the Governor. New Zealand in 2013 restricted laser pointer sales above 1 mW. Countries such as Canada and the U.K. also are considering bans on laser pointer sales.

So if you like using laser pointers, don’t add to the long lists of aviation and non-aviation laser incidents.[/quote]

This is a pointless reaction. The lasers being used are already in illegal configurations and should be confined to a lab. They get shipped from china as flashlights or with stickers that indicate that they are <1mw.
 

rinaldo00

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'attaching optics to drones***' - thanks Mr. NoEditFrontPageNewsPosts rule.
Yeah, what is the reason behind the no edits in the Real Life Stuff forums? You would think editing a rant post to something milder would be encouraged ;)
 

Vaulter98c

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it's not worth explaining to him, he keeps wanting to be a google hero and thinks he's won, just ignore idiot trolls like this Verc tard. Even after you tell him of something you experienced first hand, plus whats known as a common fact, he still thinks his ability to google the meaning of a word and post it makes him superior. Just ignore his dumb ass.

Anyways, about the story, if that's what it takes to make an example then do it, you're paying pretty much the same whether the bird is in the air or not, might as well use it to make a point. Punch the first guy in a fight, second guy is a bit more likely to think about it before he makes his move
 

Verge

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I don't think anyone piloting an air craft should have to put up with unneeded crap but at the same time I really don't know if I think its OK to put someone behind bars for long lengths of time over this and especially not on a first time issue. A simple but hefty fine should probably teach them a good lesson, jail time should be reserved for repeat offenders or those shown to have malicious intent.

I know people say that this is bad but the reality is there have been over 4000 cases of this and AFAIK none have resulted in a crash. And I think pilots are supposed to be smart trained people who can deal with not having perfect visibility at all times or other things going wrong, else they shouldn't be flying. What happens when their is fog or snow does everyone just crash? But the other thing I have noticed is a lot of pilots are pretty anal people in general that have a harsh view on things which is somewhat understandable given mistakes can cost them and everyone a life, so I am not really surprised they would vote to throw the book at a 12 year old kid that pointed a laser pointer at them.

Unfortunately, if you can't use their, there, and they're correctly.....


I doubt you know any commercial airline pilots. They generally are older than 14.
 

DarkLegacy

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I take it the only thing this Vercinaigh guy has flown is a kite..... or maybe thrown a paper airplane at best.
 

KazeoHin

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Anyways said my piece nothing more to say in this circular debate that no one will ever see to agree on. And ultimately doesn't matter at all, so i'm out :D
Dude, I'm pretty sure you've made yourself look like a complete person who doesn't know the facts on this thread.

Lasers can damage eyesight: True.

Perfect eyesight (IE: 20/20 vision) is a MINIMUM prerequisite to being a pilot: = True.

A pilot in the air who suddenly receives damaged eyesight is a danger to himself and crew: = True.

Lasers are in the best-case scenario are responsible for distracting flashes, at worst responsible for damaged eyesight and potential total vision loss. People shining lasers at flying planes are flirting with manslaughter, murder if the boot fits. Nobody who graduated high school is going to argue that.
 

Grahamkracka

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I have been blinded on approach (I have a private pilot license) by a green laser. I had to abort the landing, declare an in flight emergency, and literally fly blind with ATC's instruction hoping my vision came back. Luckily my blindness was temporary, nor was there any permanent damage of any kind. They never found the fucker that did it though.
 

KazeoHin

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I have been blinded on approach (I have a private pilot license) by a green laser. I had to abort the landing, declare an in flight emergency, and literally fly blind with ATC's instruction hoping my vision came back. Luckily my blindness was temporary, nor was there any permanent damage of any kind. They never found the fucker that did it though.
That's some frightening stuff.

This is why these laws are so severe. A 'dumb kid' trying to take down planes with a laser should have a full helping of the law brought down on them.
 

damicatz

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Pointing lasers at airborne human-piloted vehicles should quite frankly be a felony, minimum, in the US. If it aint, then the LEO effort/resources spent to apprehend is definitely not worth it.

At the end of the day, I'd much rather cash my tax $$$ in for felons getting hooked up. Sadly, it's pretty much the other way around these days.
It is a felony in the US :
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/46504

Someone was sentenced to fourteen years for it :
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2014/03/12/laser-sentence-14-years-california-alpa/6330661/
 

McFry

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Lot of dipshits in this thread who secretly want to shine lasers and planes "oh noes, it cant be that bad, a kid shined a red pen laser at me from across the classroom in algebra once!"
 

ebduncan

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i've built lasers for various uses for quite some time now.

It's no different than waking up from a dead sleep with someone using the camera flash inches from your eyes. It might as well be blinding, granted it is temporary.

Geeks and Nerds alike will try and overstate the causes and effects. The simplest solution comes in the form a film that can be applied to any surface, which makes this a NON ISSUE. They have been working on this for awhile now. Apply film to windshield and blam no more issues unless the laser they are using is actually melting your craft.
 

Dekoth-E-

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Astounding ignorance in this thread on lasers.. some seem to think those shitty little $2 red pointers you get at Wal-Mart compare in any way to a green which can cause real damage at huge distances.
 

griffinhart

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The problem isn't who is doing it. The problem is what is being done.
The dangers appear to be massively over stated. Medically, it seems that typical laser pointers are not powerful enough to cause damage. The worry is that they could cause enough distraction at a critical point and cause an accident. There have been no examples of any accidents caused by this. It REALLY pisses off the pilots, which is understandable, but I'm not sure that's enough to qualify as a felony offense.
 

H-street

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Astounding ignorance in this thread on lasers.. some seem to think those shitty little $2 red pointers you get at Wal-Mart compare in any way to a green which can cause real damage at huge distances.
lol its worse that that... *Vercinaigh* only someone not in the plane would be ok with lasers in cockpit..

I for one as a passenger say, throw any laser pointer idiot jail that would shine them in the cockpit.. they can take a chance with their own life.. not mine

I loved that video and am more than happy they went and caught them..

the fact that this is even an argument just shows some are just interested in arguing for the sake of arguing.. this is a pretty common sense thing..

Infact there is your million dollar idea -- Simple Drones that seek the laser pointer perpetrator and locate them while they are pointing it at the plane... the FAA I'm sure will pay a pretty penny for tech like that
 
D

Deleted member 126051

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Nice assumption, I don't even own one lol. And I don't buy that shit anymore than I buy cell phones disrupt our airliners. Protip: They don't, never did. Hence why they lifted it. It's called being scared of something you didn't bother to research. if they are so dangerous, ban them ENTIRELY and be done with it. they won't, because it's not.
:rolleyes:

Okay, what part about "flashblinding and disorienting pilots is fucking dangerous" did you fail to comprehend?

Or are you simply holding your hands over your ears, closing your eyes and going "No. No. No. No."

If that's the kind of idiocy we're dealing with here, let us know so we can break off the conversation and do something more productive. Like watching paint dry.
 

AaronGant

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I am surprised when I see these videos that the pilot continues to fly around this deadly threat. At any second that aircraft could of dropped out of the sky and everyone aboard could of been killed.

seriously though, I know there are those laser protective goggles. Could something like that work for pilots or be applied to the windows?
 

griffinhart

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Astounding ignorance in this thread on lasers.. some seem to think those shitty little $2 red pointers you get at Wal-Mart compare in any way to a green which can cause real damage at huge distances.
" A paper published in the journal Ophthalmology in 1997 demonstrated retinal damage with continuous exposure to light from a laser pointer in as little as 10 seconds. In practice it would be difficult to damage the eye because the eye makes lots of tiny eye movements causing it to be almost impossible to achieve 10 seconds of continuous exposure. No cases of permanent damage from laser pointers labeled type II or IIIA have been reported in the literature."

Add to that bit of info the range, and the impossibility to accurate hold pinpoint accuracy on an object that far, let alone an individual eye.

There are lasers available that are higher power that can burn paper, pop balloons, and can readily cause eye damage, but these are not standard laser pointers and not what are being used.
 

damicatz

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The dangers appear to be massively over stated. Medically, it seems that typical laser pointers are not powerful enough to cause damage. The worry is that they could cause enough distraction at a critical point and cause an accident. There have been no examples of any accidents caused by this. It REALLY pisses off the pilots, which is understandable, but I'm not sure that's enough to qualify as a felony offense.
It is a felony. You can get up to 20 years in prison for it.

It is dangerous :
http://www.laserpointersafety.com/laser-hazards_aircraft/laser-hazards_aircraft.html
 

sfsuphysics

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I have been blinded on approach (I have a private pilot license) by a green laser. I had to abort the landing, declare an in flight emergency, and literally fly blind with ATC's instruction hoping my vision came back. Luckily my blindness was temporary, nor was there any permanent damage of any kind. They never found the fucker that did it though.
Bah unless you had video proof with an optometrist in the cockpit to give you an examination to wholeheartedly find loss of vision then we're not going to believe it!!!!!
 

griffinhart

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It is a felony. You can get up to 20 years in prison for it.

It is dangerous :
http://www.laserpointersafety.com/laser-hazards_aircraft/laser-hazards_aircraft.html
The question is how dangerous. Evidence clearly shows that it's not quite as dangerous as some would have us believe. It can cause a distraction but the simple fact is, for the thousands of incidents recorded, none have caused an accident or any near misses. 20 years in prison is a bit excessive for the crime.
 
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