PlayStation 5 Pro and New Xbox Series S / X Specs and Release Date Leaked by TCL

Lakados

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I don't know if it's very likely to happen, probably supply chain issues lasting that entire 18 months. But i can tell you sony has not spilled the beans of any refresh plans to TCL.

Without citing any other information, i can 100 billion percent assure you if for some magical fairy tale reason a conversation did happen, the NDA's would prevent them from revealing it at a PUBLIC PRESS CONFERENCE.

Ya'll are falling for the clickbait trap.
The only confirmed change is moving the silicon from 7nm to 6nm to improve yields and simplify the cooling solution so they can drop the liquid metal. Outside that not much.
 

LukeTbk

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magical fairy tale reason a conversation did happen
I really but really do not get why television maker and console maker syncing consoles generation output to tv input is such magical fairy tale reason ?

The idea that it is impossible for the word to get around among Chinese electrical conglomerate that only AMD/Sony/Microsoft and a couple of others know about the PS5 refresh but no one in China would be a little bit in the know of a very rough overview of most important to other to know because it affects how it connect with it, could be true and impossible, less than one in 10,000 chance, but from a total neophyte that is really special.
 
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Verge

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I really but really do not get why television maker and console maker syncing consoles generation output to tv input is such magical fairy tale reason ?
It's not, but that isn't what i'm saying. I'm saying TCL does not have this information. This is a clickbait story.
 

Dion

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I mean it says PS5 Pro.. It's basically just the same as the PS4 and PS4 Pro thing.. Wouldn't really call it a new next gen console...
 

Comixbooks

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Junk our Walmart doesn't even have them in stock two years later.. PC master race get what you want without the disks and dust collection.
 

Wade88

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Junk our Walmart doesn't even have them in stock two years later.. PC master race get what you want without the disks and dust collection.
I live in AR and the Xboxes have been available at Costco and Target repeatedly since last Summer.
 

Aurelius

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Junk our Walmart doesn't even have them in stock two years later.. PC master race get what you want without the disks and dust collection.
On top of what Vegeta said: if I'm going to pay extortionate prices for gaming hardware, I'd like to at least get a complete system for my money. It's only lately that GPU prices haven't been routinely hit with steep markups... and that's probably because the GeForce RTX 40 series is on the horizon.
 

Red Falcon

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Junk our Walmart doesn't even have them in stock two years later.. PC master race get what you want without the disks and dust collection.
Wow, it's like your brain just jumped from December 2019 to May 2022, and completely skipped that whole time frame of unobtanium GPUs, months/years without part restocks, extremely limited supplies, sharp drops in parts/vendor quality, and almost non-existent availability outside of fuck-your-wallet black markets and ebay.
Assuming you make seven figures a year and if you can find the parts, sure, "PC master race"... starting to sound a lot like Cyberpunk RED, hmm. :borg:
 
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Comixbooks

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Unless someone was running a 5 year old PC it doesn't matter. Usually upgrading is optional for PCs for a few years anyway.
 
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Aurelius

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Unless someone was running a 5 year old PC it doesn't matter. Usually upgrading is optional for PCs for a few years anyway.

Lots of people have been buying new PCs or upgrading them over the past two to three years... you know that, right? Especially with the whole work-from-home thing going on during the pandemic? I know someone with a higher-end GPU from the past three or four years might not be in a huge rush to upgrade, but please don't presume everyone could just sit pretty until things calmed down.

You don't have to hold on to the "PC gaming is always the best" myth. PCs offer power and flexibility, but they can be very expensive and subject to market whims that make consoles seem like much smarter investments at times. There's often a chance of buying a PS5 or Xbox Series X at official pricing, even if it means buying a bundle; you couldn't really say that for someone buying even a mid-range GPU in the past couple of years.
 

DukenukemX

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Lots of people have been buying new PCs or upgrading them over the past two to three years... you know that, right? Especially with the whole work-from-home thing going on during the pandemic? I know someone with a higher-end GPU from the past three or four years might not be in a huge rush to upgrade, but please don't presume everyone could just sit pretty until things calmed down.
Most people aren't going out and buying a new PC every 2-3 years. Most people keep using it until it breaks or it can't run what they want to run. The pandemic forced people to upgrade their PC's because they were using Core2Duo's. What most people do here isn't common by any stretch.
You don't have to hold on to the "PC gaming is always the best" myth.
Myth you say?
3jdra7U.jpg

PCs offer power and flexibility, but they can be very expensive and subject to market whims that make consoles seem like much smarter investments at times.
Certainly not PS5's cause they're still over $1k on Amazon.
There's often a chance of buying a PS5 or Xbox Series X at official pricing, even if it means buying a bundle; you couldn't really say that for someone buying even a mid-range GPU in the past couple of years.
You think people don't buy GPU's at official pricing? I know some people that did, but had to wait patiently cause they were in a line. The fact is for the past couple of years neither PC or console gaming was cheap if you wanted the latest tech. The difference here is that you could buy a PS4 and still not play the latest games or you could be like me and use 5 year old PC hardware and still play Eldin Ring like a boss and still do things like emulators without needing to hack the console. Assuming you could hack the console and put in homebrew. Yes to PS4 but probably not to PS5. PC gaming being best isn't a myth, it's the legend.

 

Armenius

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Would it be hard to beat the first Xbox in that regard ?

I think it beats the 8-10 year cycles of dead end development (Cell/POWER)

When was that ?
PS1: 1994
PS2: 2000
PS3: 2006
PS3 slim: 2009
PS4: 2013
PS4 Pro: 2016
PS5: 2020
PS5 Pro: 2023/2024

Generation and refresh seem very similar to the past no ? If anything, getting slower.
You don't want to go down this road...

PlayStation
  1. 1994: Original model
  2. 1997: Mid-generation hardware refresh
  3. 2000: PS One
PlayStation 2
  1. 2000: Original model
  2. 2002: Original model hardware refresh
  3. 2003: PSX
  4. 2004: PSX hardware refresh
  5. 2004: Original model second hardware refresh
  6. 2004: Slimline model
  7. 2006: Slimline hardware refresh
PlayStation 3
  1. 2006: Original 20GB and 60GB "fat" models
  2. 2007: 80GB hardware refresh
  3. 2008: Second hardware refresh (40GB, 80GB, 160GB models)
  4. 2009: Slim model (120GB, 250GB models)
  5. 2012: Super slim model (12GB, 250GB, 500GB models)
PlayStation 4
  1. 2013: Original model
  2. 2015: Original model hardware refresh
  3. 2016: Slim model
  4. 2016: Pro model
  5. 2018: Pro model hardware refresh
PlayStation 5
  1. 2020: Original digital and disc models
 

Verge

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Why ? (That is being quite dramatic about some video games consoles), your list seem to go 100% in line with my message.
What is your message, like what do we need a ps5 pro for? People can't even buy the regular model, so lets make one with crap yields in the middle of a supply chain crisis that people still can't buy.

Oh yea, with zero games.
 

LukeTbk

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What is your message, like what do we need a ps5 pro for? People can't even buy the regular model, so lets make one with crap yields in the middle of a supply chain crisis that people still can't buy.

Oh yea, with zero games.
The message is not cryptic, it is really literal:
Generation and refresh seem very similar to the past no ? If anything, getting slower.

Same for the first Xbox being hard to beat in term of being really close to a regular computer, it is mean in a very literal way.

Has for why Sony/Microsoft could want a new one, easier to raise MSRP on a new model and maybe the new model could have better yield/volume, but I would imagine mostly $500 is different now than 2019, quite different for the video game hardware market.
 

LukeTbk

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What would give you that impression?
If the new model is not much more powerful, but a thin version it could lead to better yield/volume in a strait forward way.

If it is a more powerful model but with an much higher MSRP, that could make it more worth it to pay to get more fab space for them. Usually market force wise, the more you let the price go up, the more force into augmenting production for it, you create. It could be hard PR wise to rise MSRP of an old console, but a new Pro edition (and still acting has if you make and sold the old one even if we cannot find on in bestbuy) make that really easy.
 

Verge

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If the new model is not much more powerful, but a thin version it could lead to better yield/volume in a strait forward way.
I was under the impression this thread was about "pro" versions of the console. A thin revision with a smaller process, i could absolutely see getting launched next year, or maybe this holiday season.


Still, not seeing why you think a new more complicated chip, will yield better than something that's currently in production.
 

LukeTbk

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Still, not seeing why you think a new more complicated chip, will yield better than something that's currently in production.
If the new chips is on a new process with a higher yield, which is apparently sometime happen from generation to generation, despite the maturity of the older one, for example:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16028/better-yield-on-5nm-than-7nm-tsmc-update-on-defect-rates-for-n5

As it stands, the current N5 process from TSMC has a lower defect density than N7 did at the same time in its development cycle

Part of what makes 5nm yield slightly better is perhaps down to the increasing use of Extreme UltraViolet (EUV) technology, which reduces the total number of manufacturing steps
 

N4CR

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Ah ok, why would it be completely crazy for large TV markers to be in conversation with the single existing (and very popular) device that push HDMI need about when more than 2.1 would come up ?

Feel that there is really only 95% chance that there is 0 conversation between a large tv marker and a device like consoles about syncing generation wise port output with input that would lead to knowing if the next refresh of the playstation is going over 4K-120hz and a 18-month windows of when it is likely to happen, it really does not sound impossible to me.
Without breaking NDA, for at least 4+? years now I've known of a compression solution that can do lossless 4k120 monochrome over a few gbps, well before HDMI 2. whatever was out. So yes, this stuff is known about and projected many years in advance for transport and compression tech, because thats how long the r&d takes. Here's a hint, it wasn't targeted at consumer stuff first by a long shot.
 

LukeTbk

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Without breaking NDA, for at least 4+? years now I've known of a compression solution that can do lossless 4k120 monochrome over a few gbps, well before HDMI 2. whatever was out. So yes, this stuff is known about and projected many years in advance for transport and compression tech, because thats how long the r&d takes. Here's a hint, it wasn't targeted at consumer stuff first by a long shot.
Chinesse tech industry (witch of the many Chinesse company in the know speaker to who ?) and the country that happened would both make the NDA court issue possibly hard to get into the trouble.

I am not sure the revelance of 4k120 over a few gbps in industrial setting here, we are talking about mainstream TV input accepting 8k120hz over mainstream TV cable if console output those in Christmas 2023/spring 2024, it is not about this being new to be possible, but to be actually available on a regular tv.
 

N4CR

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Chinesse tech industry (witch of the many Chinesse company in the know speaker to who ?) and the country that happened would both make the NDA court issue possibly hard to get into the trouble.

I am not sure the revelance of 4k120 over a few gbps in industrial setting here, we are talking about mainstream TV input accepting 8k120hz over mainstream TV cable if console output those in Christmas 2023/spring 2024, it is not about this being new to be possible, but to be actually available on a regular tv.
What I'm saying is a manufacturer with enough volume might know what is coming down the pipeline in terms of transport tech and may have enough industry whispers to put something like this together. It's not a leak, its possibly an educated guess.

Didn't name any names or methods. It's now public so.. Rather safe than sorry regardless.
 

Verge

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Didn't name any names or methods. It's now public so.. Rather safe than sorry regardless.
It's just emphasizing my point that some moron from TCL isn't gonna break an NDA, for a public press conference in the massive Polish 8k tv market.
 

N4CR

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It's just emphasizing my point that some moron from TCL isn't gonna break an NDA, for a public press conference in the massive Polish 8k tv market.
Agreed 100%. They would be dumb as bricks to do this, Sony/MS would smack them hard if they actually leaked it. I think they have some inside transport/connectivity info as that would be realistic, maybe heard some rumours and put out some investor bait that's 'provable' and scraping the grey line for that.
 

LukeTbk

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What I'm saying is a manufacturer with enough volume might know what is coming down the pipeline in terms of transport tech and may have enough industry whispers to put something like this together. It's not a leak, its possibly an educated guess.
Obviously it is possibly an educated guess, I did put that chance above 95%, the discussion is about the near absolute impossibly, not a chance in a million that a China TV giant to know about it (if there is something to know) and to know without a direct NDA with Sony/Microsoft/AMD and many other that know (or to not respect it, China company track record in respecting IPs or the consequence for breaking them track records is not that great).
 
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Geforcepat

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lol at everybody doubting tcl. :ROFLMAO:I mean it wasn't long ago that the pro versions of ps4 pro and xbox one x was released. So history will most likely repeat itself, The only thing possibly messing up their projected road map is post 20. But by all means in Fall/Q4 of 23 and 24 please feel free and come back to this thread and tell us how wrong we were. :)
 

Verge

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lol at everybody doubting tcl. :ROFLMAO:I mean it wasn't long ago that the pro versions of ps4 pro and xbox one x was released. So history will most likely repeat itself, The only thing possibly messing up their projected road map is post 20. But by all means in Fall/Q4 of 23 and 24 please feel free and come back to this thread and tell us how wrong we were. :)
https://hardforum.com/threads/john-...ead-all-keanu.1990142/page-15#post-1045232740

Wouldn't be the first time for me, i have a very good memory.
 

Youn

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You don't want to go down this road...
They made actual processing improvements to those console revisions prior to PS4-pro mid-cycle thing, meaning some games could only be played at a certain resolution/quality on PSone for example? Just curious... I know maybe memory increased or loading times increased, and obviously disk size increased, but that seems like a different thing than what we're talking about here.
 

DukenukemX

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They made actual processing improvements to those console revisions prior to PS4-pro mid-cycle thing, meaning some games could only be played at a certain resolution/quality on PSone for example? Just curious... I know maybe memory increased or loading times increased, and obviously disk size increased, but that seems like a different thing than what we're talking about here.
Is most cases you want the original model of any game console. For example the PS3 fat is the best PS3 since it has actually PS2 hardware and is very easily hackable. PS3 Slim and Super Slims are less hackable and don't have PS2 physical hardware. The early Nintendo Switch's were very easily hackable but later models require more to hack it. Plus the Switch Lite doesn't even have removable controllers or a dock mode, which really doesn't go with the name Switch. Same goes for the 3DS when they made the 2DS. The benefits of later revisions of consoles isn't worth it over the things you lose.
 

Red Falcon

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Is most cases you want the original model of any game console. For example the PS3 fat is the best PS3 since it has actually PS2 hardware and is very easily hackable. PS3 Slim and Super Slims are less hackable and don't have PS2 physical hardware. The early Nintendo Switch's were very easily hackable but later models require more to hack it. Plus the Switch Lite doesn't even have removable controllers or a dock mode, which really doesn't go with the name Switch. Same goes for the 3DS when they made the 2DS. The benefits of later revisions of consoles isn't worth it over the things you lose.
The second revision of the fat PS3 removed the PS2 MIPS hardware and allowed for software emulation of PS2 games (save for a few), and the last fat PS3 revision removed all PS2 compatibility; this was all before the Slim and Super Slim.
Otherwise, completely agreed.
 

Aurelius

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lol at everybody doubting tcl. :ROFLMAO:I mean it wasn't long ago that the pro versions of ps4 pro and xbox one x was released. So history will most likely repeat itself, The only thing possibly messing up their projected road map is post 20. But by all means in Fall/Q4 of 23 and 24 please feel free and come back to this thread and tell us how wrong we were. :)
The doubt exists because the conditions aren't the same as they were for the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X.

At that time, consoles struggled to handle anything better than 1080p (and sometimes not even that) when 4K TVs were just coming into their own. Frame rates were also more of a problem than they are now. Flash forward to 2022 and it's easy to play many games in 4K, even at 120FPS in some cases. 8K TVs are not only rare and expensive, but offer little benefit to the everyday buyer; you need a giant set to even notice the difference. So you'd really be buying a PS5 Pro or Xbox Series X+ (or whatever it would be be called) for... a frame rate boost in some titles.

Meanwhile, Sony and Microsoft are struggling to fulfill the demand they already have amid high interest and global supply shortages. There's little incentive for them to introduce a mid-cycle model that wouldn't sell any better and might be even more prone to supply problems. I could see the companies introducing the usual cheaper-to-make models and/or upgrading storage capacities, but there isn't as much need to prop up interest as there was in the PS4 Pro/Xbox One X era.
 
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Armenius

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Why ? (That is being quite dramatic about some video games consoles), your list seem to go 100% in line with my message.
My point being that console hardware gets refreshed more often than people think. And I didn't even include the versions where they just changed or removed ports.
They made actual processing improvements to those console revisions prior to PS4-pro mid-cycle thing, meaning some games could only be played at a certain resolution/quality on PSone for example? Just curious... I know maybe memory increased or loading times increased, and obviously disk size increased, but that seems like a different thing than what we're talking about here.
In most cases it is just optimizing the hardware, including lowering power usage. The PS3 went through 2 die shrinks over its lifetime, for example (90nm -> 65nm -> 40nm IIRC). The PS1 refresh used higher density memory chips, among other optimizations.
 

Lakados

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Sony has registered a new model of PS5 identified by the product code CFI-1200 instead of the current CFI-1XXX (for consoles produced in 2020) and CFI-11XX, the latter used for consoles distributed from 2021 onwards. The new 6nm chips could therefore also be used by Sony Corporation for the production of PlayStation 5, they are easier to find chips, making it possible to assemble a greater number of consoles.

The heat/energy savings of going from TSMC 7nm to TSMC 6nm aren’t all that big. The largest advantages for Sony here would be the heat reduction and the lower defect rate allowing them to ditch the liquid metal coolers to ease production complexity (cut costs) and to get more of them as it has fewer defects and you get more per wafer.

Sony and Microsoft have been giving AMD some serious flack for the last 2 years for being late with their shipments and short ordering the ones that do arrive. Neither party was happy to find out the defect rate was high enough for AMD to launch an entire product line based on them. Especially since they found out from reviews of the 4700s platform and not from AMD directly.
 

Geforcepat

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The doubt exists because the conditions aren't the same as they were for the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X.

At that time, consoles struggled to handle anything better than 1080p (and sometimes not even that) when 4K TVs were just coming into their own. Frame rates were also more of a problem than they are now. Flash forward to 2022 and it's easy to play many games in 4K, even at 120FPS in some cases. 8K TVs are not only rare and expensive, but offer little benefit to the everyday buyer; you need a giant set to even notice the difference. So you'd really be buying a PS5 Pro or Xbox Series X+ (or whatever it would be be called) for... a frame rate boost in some titles.

Meanwhile, Sony and Microsoft are struggling to fulfill the demand they already have amid high interest and global supply shortages. There's little incentive for them to introduce a mid-cycle model that wouldn't sell any better and might be even more prone to supply problems. I could see the companies introducing the usual cheaper-to-make models and/or upgrading storage capacities, but there isn't as much need to prop up interest as there was in the PS4 Pro/Xbox One X era.
I get what you're saying but that's three year+ old tech at the moment. I would be interested in a ps5 pro next fall(23). Not really impressed with the gpu in the current. By 24 Xbox series x will need an update. We won't even talk about the s lol. And i would like to upgrade my xbox to that one not the current x. So I'll pick up an series x refresh in 24 and a ps5 pro or whatever they decide to call it late next year or early 24. Maybe I'll pick up a pro ready tcl screen too:D And oh yeah, The sony fanboy's would make the ps5 pro sell out in no time since you know they are not happy about xbox being the overall most powerful at the moment. So no they would not struggle to sell them one bit.
 

LukeTbk

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There's little incentive for them to introduce a mid-cycle model that wouldn't sell any better and might be even more prone to supply problems.
One possible incentive, higher price point ? Easier to announce it on a pro version than on the current one.
 

Lakados

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One possible incentive, higher price point ? Easier to announce it on a pro version than on the current one.
while cutting costs, the 6nm parts are cheaper to produce than their 7nm counterparts due to the higher yields, but while the news is all rumors about a PS5 pro and getting all hyped up for that the more likely thing we are going to see is a PS5 slim, that is smaller, lighter, and cheaper to build, with a lower defect rate. I mean the PS5 pro is going to happen but probably not until late 2023 or 2024.
 

LukeTbk

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while cutting costs, the 6nm parts are cheaper to produce than their 7nm counterparts due to the higher yields, but while the news is all rumors about a PS5 pro and getting all hyped up for that the more likely thing we are going to see is a PS5 slim, that is smaller, lighter, and cheaper to build, with a lower defect rate. I mean the PS5 pro is going to happen but probably not until late 2023 or 2024.
That the exact rumors of this thread a pro version for Christmas 2023 or 2024 no ?
 
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