Playstation 5 is looking real good

[Darth Ender]

The only reason I got a ps3 and the only reason I got a ps4 is also the only reason I'd get a ps5. God of war.

Switch is good for party games where you have same-room playing

For everything else, PC.

 

[griff30]

Meh, Twisted Metal or bust.

I agree
Until there is a new Twisted Metal, I'll stick with PC

 

[5150Joker]

If it were not for consoles, a lot of the games you play would not get made. A lot of games these days cost several hundred million dollars to make. On cross platform games, 85% of the sales come from consoles. If they lost that chunk of sales, they would not be making big budget games.

Nah, if the console plague didn't exist, all these companies would be making the PC their primary development platform rather than the other way around. Plus we wouldn't be held back by 10 yr old technology either.

 

[Flogger23m]

I also don't give a shit about politics and buy from G2A or other websites that people claim are stealing keys. Indie games I buy off Steam or Humble Bundle because the price doesn't get any lower.

I don't mind buying keys cheaper, but buying from those places just encourages credit card theft and the like. You're better off pirating than rewarding a thief and costing the developers money in charge backs. If someone knowingly supports such practices I wouldn't shed a tear it someone stole everything they owned and sold it for a good profit.

I also don't really mind people pirating just because they want it for free if they were never going to pay for it in the first place. At least it is honest and probably didn't cost any victim of theft any troubles.

 

[Derangel]

Nah, if the console plague didn't exist, all these companies would be making the PC their primary development platform rather than the other way around. Plus we wouldn't be held back by 10 yr old technology either.

Elitist bullshit is far more of a plague on the industry than consoles ever could be. Also, no, just because you live in some insane fantasy world doesn't mean it would ever have been real.

 

[Staples]

I used to buy games on PC but realized after 15 years that I get distracted when using the PC and never end up playing them. I buy them for Xbox now and even though I don't play every one I buy, the majority of them do get played because there is not much to distract you on consoles other than streaming video.

 

[vegeta535]

Nah, if the console plague didn't exist, all these companies would be making the PC their primary development platform rather than the other way around. Plus we wouldn't be held back by 10 yr old technology either.

You forget it was Nintendo back in the 80s that resurrected gaming. PC gaming was extremely niche.

 

[ManofGod]

Will not buy it anyways, although I will buy the next XBox. (I have the Ultimate Game Pass so.....) I just do not like the Playstation interface, although others do and that is called choice.

 

[Criticalhitkoala]

I think people don't realize how spoiled we are when it comes to internal system of support if there is an issue on pc. On a platform like pc with all the variables, things will break. As above average pc users we can fix it. It's taken some of us years if not countless hours to be able get our experience. And trust me, it will break.

Consoles benefit of being a contained system means support doesn't have to fix countless issues and thus a wider audience can play it. That's the big thing. Lots of people can play it. It's easier to access. It's a more controlled eco system.

It would be hypocritical for me to turn a blind eye to that reality, cause apples system really annoys me. But since we are dealing with games, I do think people with that elite pc mindset are really short changing both themselves and also no realizing just how important consoles are to the industry.

 

[Aurelius]

Nah, if the console plague didn't exist, all these companies would be making the PC their primary development platform rather than the other way around. Plus we wouldn't be held back by 10 yr old technology either.

Who hurt you so badly that you can't let people enjoy things you don't use?

Consoles are dandy. Not everyone wants to deal with driver versions, compatibility issues or the minutiae of PC specs -- many just want to sit down at the end of a long day and play some games. How can you look down on people for simply wanting to have fun? Life's too short to waste energy on condescension and hatred.

 

[DukenukemX]

I don't mind buying keys cheaper, but buying from those places just encourages credit card theft and the like. You're better off pirating than rewarding a thief and costing the developers money in charge backs. If someone knowingly supports such practices I wouldn't shed a tear it someone stole everything they owned and sold it for a good profit.

I also don't really mind people pirating just because they want it for free if they were never going to pay for it in the first place. At least it is honest and probably didn't cost any victim of theft any troubles.

You think credit card theft is something the credit card companies are going to put up with? As much as everyone wants to hate on these sites, I'd like proof instead of hearsay. Start a lawsuit or something, because I'm not going by a Tweet by any developer.

As for pirating there are some games you can't. Like Dark Souls for example where you could pirate it but not multiplayer.

 

[DukenukemX]

Who hurt you so badly that you can't let people enjoy things you don't use?

Consoles are dandy. Not everyone wants to deal with driver versions, compatibility issues or the minutiae of PC specs -- many just want to sit down at the end of a long day and play some games. How can you look down on people for simply wanting to have fun? Life's too short to waste energy on condescension and hatred.

When buying a PC in the early 90's was over $1k while a console was only $100, it made sense to buy a console. Especially when DOS games had IRQ settings for getting sound to work, and you had to play with jumpers. Today I can build a better gaming PC than a console for $700 while the PS5 is rumored to be $550 or $600. Consoles have served their purpose.

 

[Derangel]

When buying a PC in the early 90's was over $1k while a console was only $100, it made sense to buy a console. Especially when DOS games had IRQ settings for getting sound to work, and you had to play with jumpers. Today I can build a better gaming PC than a console for $700 while the PS5 is rumored to be $550 or $600. Consoles have served their purpose.

The problem is right in your post you can "build" it. The vast majority of people don't want to build computers. They don't care. They just want to play games with the least amount of trouble possible for the best price possible. Consoles provide that. A PC will NEVER be able to compete with the convenience of a console, even modern ones. Saying consoles have "served their purpose" shows a gross misunderstanding of the purpose of consoles and why people buy them.

PS: Consoles were not "only $100" in the early 90s. The SNES and Genesis were both around $200 at launch and the non-mainstream systems were even more (a lot more in some cases).

 

[Dreamerbydesign]

I don't mind buying keys cheaper, but buying from those places just encourages credit card theft and the like. You're better off pirating than rewarding a thief and costing the developers money in charge backs. If someone knowingly supports such practices I wouldn't shed a tear it someone stole everything they owned and sold it for a good profit.

I also don't really mind people pirating just because they want it for free if they were never going to pay for it in the first place. At least it is honest and probably didn't cost any victim of theft any troubles.

if you don’t think pirated software can contain things that could completely wipe you digitally off the map...

 

[DukenukemX]

The problem is right in your post you can "build" it. The vast majority of people don't want to build computers. They don't care. They just want to play games with the least amount of trouble possible for the best price possible. Consoles provide that. A PC will NEVER be able to compete with the convenience of a console, even modern ones. Saying consoles have "served their purpose" shows a gross misunderstanding of the purpose of consoles and why people buy them.

My first PC was a Compaq and anyone new to PC gaming should not build their own PC. This $769 Asus has everything you need to play games at 1080p max settings and then some. "I" can build a better PC for that money, but that doesn't mean there isn't a good selection of prebuilt desktops. A modern PC is as convenient as it's going to get. Modern consoles are worse with some updates taking 6 hours.

The console industry is coming to an end with Nintendo stepping out of the home console market with the Switch and Xbox failing as a platform. That leaves Sony as the only console left to battle against PC supremacy. Like it or not the PS5 at $550 will have to directly compete with Desktop PC's for $700. With Intel jumping into the graphics card market there's going to be more competition with better prices and performance. The PS5 may not make it to 5-7 years.

PS: Consoles were not "only $100" in the early 90s. The SNES and Genesis were both around $200 at launch and the non-mainstream systems were even more (a lot more in some cases).

$200 is still a lot cheaper than over $1k for computers back then. But $550 is not a lot cheaper than $700, assuming $550 is the price of the PS5.

 

[Flogger23m]

You think credit card theft is something the credit card companies are going to put up with? As much as everyone wants to hate on these sites, I'd like proof instead of hearsay.

They don't, but there is currently no fool proof system to prevent it. Which is why game developers deactivate keys that they know were bought with stolen credit cards. Examples includes Ubisoft and Eagle Dynamics.

See this disclaimer at the top of the forums here:
https://forums.eagle.ru/?langid=1

Feel free to support these criminal enterprises, but for an SP game you're better off pirating because it doesn't result in them loosing money. Likewise, getting your key de-activated is an issue. Sometimes it takes a year or so post purchase but some developers are starting to come down harder on stolen keys/accounts. I know Eagle Dynamics has disabled some keys that were bought with stolen cards from G2A. Personally, I'd rather pay a few more dollars and not run the risk of my money going to waste.

 

[Red Falcon]

Modern consoles are worse with some updates taking 6 hours.

That was over a year ago with downloading the then update (not installing it), and server outages can cause that - that is hardly exclusive to Sony, and I have seen this shit happen with non-console companies and services like Microsoft, IBM, Google (Android), Apple, Panasonic, etc.
Shit happens, and that is an outlier that is hardly the norm with most services; if it happened most of the time, I would agree fully with you, but that is not the case.

The console industry is coming to an end with Nintendo stepping out of the home console market with the Switch and Xbox failing as a platform.

Do you have any actual data to back that?
I know that Microsoft is hurting on all fronts (not just console) and their services as a whole have taken a massive step down in quality as of late.

As for Nintendo, especially with the Switch, and I'm taking that statement with a giant bag of salt.
I'm not saying you are wrong, though I do need to see some data backing your statement.

 

[5150Joker]

Who hurt you so badly that you can't let people enjoy things you don't use?

Consoles are dandy. Not everyone wants to deal with driver versions, compatibility issues or the minutiae of PC specs -- many just want to sit down at the end of a long day and play some games. How can you look down on people for simply wanting to have fun? Life's too short to waste energy on condescension and hatred.

Since you have trouble reading, I'll restate what I said before: These long console cycles hold back games for a decade at a time and in the long run hurt gaming. They may serve the masses need for gaming but that doesn't address my point of them being harmful for gaming (esp. PC gaming) in the long run. Just look at how Halo was originally slated to be a PC/Mac game and then bought by MS to further their console ambitions by largely making it an exclusive for several years. And how often do you really deal with drivers, especially with Windows 10? It's not 1999 anymore, the system pretty much installs the drivers for you so it's not even a real worry.

Elitist bullshit is far more of a plague on the industry than consoles ever could be. Also, no, just because you live in some insane fantasy world doesn't mean it would ever have been real.

Mentions elitist bullshit but has his entire PC specs in his sig.

 

[Derangel]

My first PC was a Compaq and anyone new to PC gaming should not build their own PC. This $769 Asus has everything you need to play games at 1080p max settings and then some. "I" can build a better PC for that money, but that doesn't mean there isn't a good selection of prebuilt desktops. A modern PC is as convenient as it's going to get. Modern consoles are worse with some updates taking 6 hours.

The console industry is coming to an end with Nintendo stepping out of the home console market with the Switch and Xbox failing as a platform. That leaves Sony as the only console left to battle against PC supremacy. Like it or not the PS5 at $550 will have to directly compete with Desktop PC's for $700. With Intel jumping into the graphics card market there's going to be more competition with better prices and performance. The PS5 may not make it to 5-7 years.

$200 is still a lot cheaper than over $1k for computers back then. But $550 is not a lot cheaper than $700, assuming $550 is the price of the PS5.

Its been possible to get decent cheap gaming PCs for years. Hasn't done anything to the console market. You're still asking people to understand specs and what to buy when looking at these systems.

Lol. Nintendo didn't leave the console market with the Switch. The Switch is a console as well as a handheld. MS has one low selling console and people scream that the sky is falling. Yet they're still planning to release a new console next year and bulking up their first party offerings in order to compete with Sony. Intel and competitive pricing? HA! What fantasy world do you live in? Whenever Intel releases gaming GPUs they're going to price them in line with what AMD and Nvidia ware already doing, if not even higher. There has been so-called competition with PCs this entire console generation and yet the PS4 has become the second best selling console of all time.

Mentions elitist bullshit but has his entire PC specs in his sig.

Umm...What? The fuck does one have to do with the other?

 

[vegeta535]

Its been possible to get decent cheap gaming PCs for years. Hasn't done anything to the console market. You're still asking people to understand specs and what to buy when looking at these systems.

Lol. Nintendo didn't leave the console market with the Switch. The Switch is a console as well as a handheld. MS has one low selling console and people scream that the sky is falling. Yet they're still planning to release a new console next year and bulking up their first party offerings in order to compete with Sony. Intel and competitive pricing? HA! What fantasy world do you live in? Whenever Intel releases gaming GPUs they're going to price them in line with what AMD and Nvidia ware already doing, if not even higher. There has been so-called competition with PCs this entire console generation and yet the PS4 has become the second best selling console of all time.



Umm...What? The fuck does one have to do with the other?

The Xbox is not even a low selling console. It is just the one that is in last place and constantly doing dumb shit this generation.

 

[DukenukemX]

Do you have any actual data to back that?
I know that Microsoft is hurting on all fronts (not just console) and their services as a whole have taken a massive step down in quality as of late.

As for Nintendo, especially with the Switch, and I'm taking that statement with a giant bag of salt.
I'm not saying you are wrong, though I do need to see some data backing your statement.

It's a prediction based on that data. You just acknowledged that the Xbox brand has been hurting, and probably will continue to hurt when Xbox Two or whatever is released. I'm not saying that Xbox is entirely out of the game just yet, but unless Microsoft gets some amazingly first party games, they won't last more than a few years. Which is why I think Microsoft plans to merge Windows with Xbox along with xCloud. No doubt Microsoft will Embrace PC gaming, Extend Xbox to be synonymous with PC gaming, and eventually Extinguish PC gaming. Microsoft will try it at some point. People wonder why Valve is still supporting Linux as a gaming platform when the industry has deemed SteamOS as a failure. Microsoft has the ball in their court, so the question is when is Microsoft going to do something stupid?

Nintendo has effectively removed themselves from the home market. This isn't a stupid move for Nintendo as they've had great success with their portable consoles and supporting a mobile platform and a home platform with 1st party titles is challenging. Now they can focus their entire efforts on mobile, under the guise that they still support home console gaming. But when the PS5 is released, the Switch won't be able to keep up, not that Nintendo needs amazing hardware to make good games. Slowly and inevitably Nintendo will migrate to iOS and Android at some point. They probably won't stop making a portable hand held devices for a while, but eventually they will.

That leaves Playstation and PC gaming for the home market. I don't put much value behind cloud gaming, as I feel that's a capitalists wet dream. But if the rumors are true and we can expect the PS5 to be around $500 to $600, I don't see much of a future for Playstation brand. No console has ever done well priced above $400, and at the rumored prices of a PS5, it approaches the cost of getting a gaming PC. It won't be as powerful as people are hoping for, as there's already rumors that the Zen2+ CPU in the PS5 won't have L3 cache, which just cripples the IPC of the Zen architecture. I also expect the GPU to be slightly slower than a RX 5700 with Ray-Tracing, which might sound impressive today but by holiday season of 2020 I'm sure Nvidia will have a $300 GPU that will out perform it, along with AMD having to release something to compete with Nvidia. Then you have Intel who won't be stupid enough to offer the same performing GPU as Nvidia for the same price. Before the PS5 and Xbox "TWO" are released you can basically pay $300 and get a better performing graphics card than the PS5. Assuming the PS5 is $550, the only gamers that insist to stick with the PS5 over PC gaming are those who have friends who use Playstation or want the exclusives.

I'm also predicting that Microsoft will do something to give their console an edge over Sony, like an extra chip they designed to boost Ray-Tracing performance. But what I'm saying is indeed a prediction and no direct data shows this. I also believe that within a few years a fully working PS4 emulator will get released, along with PS5 not too far away from being added. While sticking to x86 and GCN is great for backwards compatibility, it's also great for writing emulators.

 

[Derangel]

It's a prediction based on that data. You just acknowledged that the Xbox brand has been hurting, and probably will continue to hurt when Xbox Two or whatever is released. I'm not saying that Xbox is entirely out of the game just yet, but unless Microsoft gets some amazingly first party games, they won't last more than a few years. Which is why I think Microsoft plans to merge Windows with Xbox along with xCloud. No doubt Microsoft will Embrace PC gaming, Extend Xbox to be synonymous with PC gaming, and eventually Extinguish PC gaming. Microsoft will try it at some point. People wonder why Valve is still supporting Linux as a gaming platform when the industry has deemed SteamOS as a failure. Microsoft has the ball in their court, so the question is when is Microsoft going to do something stupid?

Nintendo has effectively removed themselves from the home market. This isn't a stupid move for Nintendo as they've had great success with their portable consoles and supporting a mobile platform and a home platform with 1st party titles is challenging. Now they can focus their entire efforts on mobile, under the guise that they still support home console gaming. But when the PS5 is released, the Switch won't be able to keep up, not that Nintendo needs amazing hardware to make good games. Slowly and inevitably Nintendo will migrate to iOS and Android at some point. They probably won't stop making a portable hand held devices for a while, but eventually they will.

That leaves Playstation and PC gaming for the home market. I don't put much value behind cloud gaming, as I feel that's a capitalists wet dream. But if the rumors are true and we can expect the PS5 to be around $500 to $600, I don't see much of a future for Playstation brand. No console has ever done well priced above $400, and at the rumored prices of a PS5, it approaches the cost of getting a gaming PC. It won't be as powerful as people are hoping for, as there's already rumors that the Zen2+ CPU in the PS5 won't have L3 cache, which just cripples the IPC of the Zen architecture. I also expect the GPU to be slightly slower than a RX 5700 with Ray-Tracing, which might sound impressive today but by holiday season of 2020 I'm sure Nvidia will have a $300 GPU that will out perform it, along with AMD having to release something to compete with Nvidia. Then you have Intel who won't be stupid enough to offer the same performing GPU as Nvidia for the same price. Before the PS5 and Xbox "TWO" are released you can basically pay $300 and get a better performing graphics card than the PS5. Assuming the PS5 is $550, the only gamers that insist to stick with the PS5 over PC gaming are those who have friends who use Playstation or want the exclusives.

I'm also predicting that Microsoft will do something to give their console an edge over Sony, like an extra chip they designed to boost Ray-Tracing performance. But what I'm saying is indeed a prediction and no direct data shows this. I also believe that within a few years a fully working PS4 emulator will get released, along with PS5 not too far away from being added. While sticking to x86 and GCN is great for backwards compatibility, it's also great for writing emulators.

Your predictions make about as much sense as the crap Michael Pachter spews out on a regular basis. You should start calling yourself a "video game analyst", make your thin-air predictions sound all special.

 

[DukenukemX]

Its been possible to get decent cheap gaming PCs for years. Hasn't done anything to the console market. You're still asking people to understand specs and what to buy when looking at these systems.

Actually it probably has. Specifically Xbox, which I believe gamers left it for mostly PC gaming. Sure some of them went to Playstation as well, but a whole lot went to PC.

Lol. Nintendo didn't leave the console market with the Switch. The Switch is a console as well as a handheld.

Being able to plug a portable device to a TV doesn't make it a home console. Most tablets and smart phones have this feature.

MS has one low selling console and people scream that the sky is falling.

I'm concerned with game sales. The hardware has sold much better than the games for the console. Most games released on the Xbox have 1/8th the sales of PS4+PC sales, on average.

Yet they're still planning to release a new console next year and bulking up their first party offerings in order to compete with Sony.

The original Xbox was a huge failure and yet Microsoft made the Xbox 360. I don't think Microsoft can pull another Xbox 360 this time.

Intel and competitive pricing? HA! What fantasy world do you live in? Whenever Intel releases gaming GPUs they're going to price them in line with what AMD and Nvidia ware already doing, if not even higher.

If Intel did that with Nvidia's mind share then good luck to them. Intel would have to know that AMD is struggling against Nvidia, and anything but a market disruptor won't sway consumers.

There has been so-called competition with PCs this entire console generation and yet the PS4 has become the second best selling console of all time.

Yea, but it's alone this generation. During the PS3/360 era, both consoles were equal in sales while the Wii totally destroyed them in console and game sales. The Playstation is doing well but overall the console industry has declined.

 

[defaultluser]

You forget it was Nintendo back in the 80s that resurrected gaming. PC gaming was extremely niche.

Not that niche. Worldwide, the C64 sold 17 million units Tandy CoCo , Atari 4 million, Amiga 5 million, MSX 5 million and ZX Spectrum 5 million, all in the same time period NES was born and died. While segmented compared to the NES, it was competitive. And until 1985, the entire gaming market outside Japan was held up up by these giants.

And once multimedia standardized on a single PC configuration (Stable windows NT plus DirectX plus accelerated 3D), PCs sold billions. Whereas consoles have become "We Swear it's not a PC!"

The only reasons non-portable consoles continue to have mind share is because they already gained users back when they were cheaper AND easier to use. And now that users are locked into the platform, they can't live without it.

If someone suddenly said tomorrow "burn all consoles," it would have ZERO long-term impact on the games industry. After all, Fornight (and it's predecessor Player Unknown Battlegrounds )were PC exclusive for almost haf it's life, and that didn't hurt it making money. Making games that can be played on ANCIENT integrated graphics is the same cheat entry-level consoles (or ports to older platforms) use, and it's been available on PC in high-performance form for 10 years now.

People usually own a PC plus Tablet/Cell Phone, before they even think about a console. The market share for open compute devices is immeasurably huge compared to the few hundred million PlayStation sold in the last 30 years, and because they make so many of them the cost of adding "serviceable" 3D is even cheaper than a Console.

 

[Aurelius]

Since you have trouble reading, I'll restate what I said before: These long console cycles hold back games for a decade at a time and in the long run hurt gaming. They may serve the masses need for gaming but that doesn't address my point of them being harmful for gaming (esp. PC gaming) in the long run. Just look at how Halo was originally slated to be a PC/Mac game and then bought by MS to further their console ambitions by largely making it an exclusive for several years. And how often do you really deal with drivers, especially with Windows 10? It's not 1999 anymore, the system pretty much installs the drivers for you so it's not even a real worry.

The long console cycles aren't great, but I don't think the systems hurt gaming. For whatever the technical baselines do, for example, they've also freed the more creative developers to focus on the content as opposed to mastering the hardware. And while the Halo exclusive wasn't hot for choice, it also helped foster first-person shooters on consoles and, by extension, launch game franchises that we might not have seen for a long time, if ever.

Drivers aren't as much of a problem as they used to be, but I've seen plenty of headaches persisting. That big new game doesn't work properly until your GPU maker releases new drivers, or your particular CPU/mainboard combination doesn't like game X or Y. With consoles, those are non-issues. You just... play (after the latest game update, but still).

 

[Derangel]

Actually it probably has. Specifically Xbox, which I believe gamers left it for mostly PC gaming. Sure some of them went to Playstation as well, but a whole lot went to PC.

Being able to plug a portable device to a TV doesn't make it a home console. Most tablets and smart phones have this feature.

I'm concerned with game sales. The hardware has sold much better than the games for the console. Most games released on the Xbox have 1/8th the sales of PS4+PC sales, on average.

The original Xbox was a huge failure and yet Microsoft made the Xbox 360. I don't think Microsoft can pull another Xbox 360 this time.

If Intel did that with Nvidia's mind share then good luck to them. Intel would have to know that AMD is struggling against Nvidia, and anything but a market disruptor won't sway consumers.

Yea, but it's alone this generation. During the PS3/360 era, both consoles were equal in sales while the Wii totally destroyed them in console and game sales. The Playstation is doing well but overall the console industry has declined.

I doubt it. At least not as much as you think. What has effected gaming (both console and PC) are cell phones and tablets. The casual market has pretty much entirely gone that route and even people who used to be in the "core" gaming market stopped because cell phones are a more convenient way for a lot of people to get a quick gaming fix.

It is marketed as and called a hybrid console. The Switch is both a console and a handheld (well the base at least, not so much the Lite). Usage statistics point to people using it as both as well.

Yeah. Game sales haven't been great. Though I don't think its impossible for them to turn things around. Probably can't over-take Sony (unless Sony makes another massive mess up like they did with the PS3) but I believe they can make things a bit more even. If MS had a good first-party lineup this gen they would have been in a much better spot than they are now.

Intel generally isn't one for "value" and I just don't see them trying to be the budget offering in the GPU market. Could be wrong (and I would love to be), but it doesn't fit Intel's typical MO.

Even with it basically being on its own if the market had declined as much as you think the system wouldn't have the sale it does and games wouldn't be selling the units they do. It took a while for the 360 and PS3 to even out, but that happened on the back of Sony's price cuts and excellent first party lineup. The PS3 and 360 sold combined 171m units. The PS4 and XB1 are currently around roughly 150m (add 13m if you really want to count the Wii U). The big casual market that mass adopted the Wii pretty much all jumped ship to phones or don't game at all anymore. If you want to call that a decline, sure, but the Wii was basically an outlier anyway.

 

[Red Falcon]

It's a prediction based on that data. You just acknowledged that the Xbox brand has been hurting, and probably will continue to hurt when Xbox Two or whatever is released. I'm not saying that Xbox is entirely out of the game just yet, but unless Microsoft gets some amazingly first party games, they won't last more than a few years. Which is why I think Microsoft plans to merge Windows with Xbox along with xCloud. No doubt Microsoft will Embrace PC gaming, Extend Xbox to be synonymous with PC gaming, and eventually Extinguish PC gaming. Microsoft will try it at some point. Microsoft has the ball in their court, so the question is when is Microsoft going to do something stupid?

Fully agreed.

Nintendo has effectively removed themselves from the home market. This isn't a stupid move for Nintendo as they've had great success with their portable consoles and supporting a mobile platform and a home platform with 1st party titles is challenging. Now they can focus their entire efforts on mobile, under the guise that they still support home console gaming. But when the PS5 is released, the Switch won't be able to keep up, not that Nintendo needs amazing hardware to make good games. Slowly and inevitably Nintendo will migrate to iOS and Android at some point. They probably won't stop making a portable hand held devices for a while, but eventually they will.

The Switch is going strong and is a multipurpose console - that hardly shows that Nintendo is going to be a software-only company with mobile devices.
How many Nintendo games are currently on iOS and Android? A few at most?

There is nothing to indicate this will happen, not even remotely.
Again, unless you can cite some sources or show evidence of this occurring, this is purely conjecture on your part.

That leaves Playstation and PC gaming for the home market. I don't put much value behind cloud gaming, as I feel that's a capitalists wet dream. But if the rumors are true and we can expect the PS5 to be around $500 to $600, I don't see much of a future for Playstation brand. No console has ever done well priced above $400, and at the rumored prices of a PS5, it approaches the cost of getting a gaming PC. It won't be as powerful as people are hoping for, as there's already rumors that the Zen2+ CPU in the PS5 won't have L3 cache, which just cripples the IPC of the Zen architecture. I also expect the GPU to be slightly slower than a RX 5700 with Ray-Tracing, which might sound impressive today but by holiday season of 2020 I'm sure Nvidia will have a $300 GPU that will out perform it, along with AMD having to release something to compete with Nvidia. Then you have Intel who won't be stupid enough to offer the same performing GPU as Nvidia for the same price. Before the PS5 and Xbox "TWO" are released you can basically pay $300 and get a better performing graphics card than the PS5. Assuming the PS5 is $550, the only gamers that insist to stick with the PS5 over PC gaming are those who have friends who use Playstation or want the exclusives.

Agreed on the cloud gaming portion, especially without the infrastructure to properly support it.
As for the rest on the performance of the PS5, that has yet to be seen - again, conjecture on your part.

Also, how would adding more L3 cache to a CPU hamper the IPC?
There is no "Zen 2+" CPU yet, so how could you possibly know this?

Also, you keep talking about GPUs - there is more to a console, and a system designed for gaming, than just the GPU...

I'm also predicting that Microsoft will do something to give their console an edge over Sony, like an extra chip they designed to boost Ray-Tracing performance. But what I'm saying is indeed a prediction and no direct data shows this. I also believe that within a few years a fully working PS4 emulator will get released, along with PS5 not too far away from being added. While sticking to x86 and GCN is great for backwards compatibility, it's also great for writing emulators.

You are making a lot of assumptions and predictions with all of this.
There is more to writing an emulator than just being the same ISA, and considering the memory architecture is completely different and totally unique on the consoles, writing an emulator will be an incredibly difficult undertaking.

 

[T4rd]

Lol @ the Switch not being a home console; they've ported the Witcher 3, Skyrim, Doom 2016, Wolfenstein: The New Colossus, and many other big PC and console games to it. Please show me where those are on any other mobile device or phone. It's as much of a console as the other two even if it only has half the CPU/GPU power and is a portable system as well. Shows the complete ignorance of the PC elitists in here and lends to the lack of credibility in anything else they say.

The Xbone didn't fail in this generation whatsoever either; just because Sony handily beat them in sales and marketshare, the Xbone has still been plenty profitable and successful enough this generation. It just started out rough because of MS's initial bad decisions to bundle unwanted hardware (Kinect) and bad PR of blocking used games on the system, which they almost immediately reneged on but it didn't bode well for their potential customers at the time.

 

[tangoseal]

Apex can suck a cock.

They fucked up titanfall, abandoned titanfall 3, and ruined titanfall 2.

Fuck EA and Fuck Apex. I wont get a PS5 because it touches that shit game

 

[T4rd]

Apex can suck a cock.

They fucked up titanfall, abandoned titanfall 3, and ruined titanfall 2.

Fuck EA and Fuck Apex. I wont get a PS5 because it touches that shit game

Yeah, I'm not sure why a 3rd party game or publisher working on all platforms still (PC included) would influence your feelings toward the console. It was pretty irrelevant in OP, just like this whole thread in the first place.

 

[tangoseal]

Yeah, I'm not sure why a 3rd party game or publisher working on all platforms still (PC included) would influence your feelings toward the console. It was pretty irrelevant in OP, just like this whole thread in the first place.

I'm just irate at EA and at this point anything they endorse I equate to a piece of excrement.

Of course I'm being an over exaggerated mouth piece right now but I hate what EA did to murder the TF franchise completely

One of the best single player scenarios in history and top 2 or 3 ever FPS multiplayer. I've been gaming since 80s so I'm not some millennial that knows more than reality.

Anyways playstation 5 is AMD fueld so I give it that.

 

[Aurelius]

Apex can suck a cock.

They fucked up titanfall, abandoned titanfall 3, and ruined titanfall 2.

Fuck EA and Fuck Apex. I wont get a PS5 because it touches that shit game

That's a bit irrational -- by that logic you should ditch the Xbox and PCs since they run Apex as well.

I don't think Titanfall 3 is necessarily dead, but it's not the top priority. And Apex might actually help if it exposes the Titanfall universe to more people. Goodness knows that Titanfall has regularly struggled to capture attention despite all the rave reviews.

 

[tangoseal]

That's a bit irrational -- by that logic you should ditch the Xbox and PCs since they run Apex as well.

I don't think Titanfall 3 is necessarily dead, but it's not the top priority. And Apex might actually help if it exposes the Titanfall universe to more people. Goodness knows that Titanfall has regularly struggled to capture attention despite all the rave reviews.

read one post above yours where I level with reality.

 

[DukenukemX]

The long console cycles aren't great, but I don't think the systems hurt gaming. For whatever the technical baselines do, for example, they've also freed the more creative developers to focus on the content as opposed to mastering the hardware. And while the Halo exclusive wasn't hot for choice, it also helped foster first-person shooters on consoles and, by extension, launch game franchises that we might not have seen for a long time, if ever.

So you don't remember the fiasco where companies were showing off games at E3 that looked better than the released version? Watch Dogs comes to mind where they had hidden files on PC. After nearly 7 years the PC industry has moved on so much that we subsist over higher resolutions like 4k and frame rates. A GTX 970 released in 2014 would still play today's games at 1080p nearly max settings without issue, and will probably continue to do so for another 2 years.

Halo would have been successful with or without the Xbox brand behind it. My opinion is that the Halo brand died because Microsoft wasn't funding Bungie enough so they could make quality games, and with Xbox as the only platform they can sell their games they had limited revenue. Hence why Bungie left Microsoft and is now on their own. This may also explain why some of the best games to come out on Xbox like CupHead and Ori and the Blind Forest are now on the more profitable Switch.

Drivers aren't as much of a problem as they used to be, but I've seen plenty of headaches persisting. That big new game doesn't work properly until your GPU maker releases new drivers, or your particular CPU/mainboard combination doesn't like game X or Y. With consoles, those are non-issues. You just... play (after the latest game update, but still).

I can't deny this but I feel this is an issue created by Microsoft, as Windows doesn't do a particularly good job at keeping these important drivers up to date. AMD and Nvidia now provide their own automatic utilities for this, but it should be something included with the OS. As we all know, Microsoft owns both Xbox and Windows, so there maybe a conflict of interest here.

I doubt it. At least not as much as you think. What has effected gaming (both console and PC) are cell phones and tablets. The casual market has pretty much entirely gone that route and even people who used to be in the "core" gaming market stopped because cell phones are a more convenient way for a lot of people to get a quick gaming fix.

If people game on a cell phone it's because they don't have free time. The only time I whip out my phone to play a game is when I'm bored waiting for something. The younger generation though maybe used to playing on phones and tablets and prefer to use these devices over PC or console. But nobody left gaming at home for mobile unless that's their only choice.

The Switch is going strong and is a multipurpose console - that hardly shows that Nintendo is going to be a software-only company with mobile devices.

Having video output on a device doesn't make it a home console. The hardware does that and the Switch is just a beefed up 3DS. How you think the Yuzu emulator was made? The creators of Citra the 3DS emulator noticed that the Switch has not only a similar OS to the 3DS but similar hardware, with exception to the graphics. So it only took the Citra creators a year to make a working Switch emulator.

How many Nintendo games are currently on iOS and Android? A few at most?

It obviously won't happen anytime soon, but I predict that Nintendo's next portable console maybe a phone. Nintendo will take their time to bring their games to Android/iOS.

There is nothing to indicate this will happen, not even remotely.
Again, unless you can cite some sources or show evidence of this occurring, this is purely conjecture on your part.

That's exactly what I'm talking about... conjecture. These are predictions I'm making and nothing more.

Also, how would adding more L3 cache to a CPU hamper the IPC?
There is no "Zen 2+" CPU yet, so how could you possibly know this?

The rumor is that the PS5 won't have L3 cache, not adding more. Also, RedGamingTech. All rumors of course.

Also, you keep talking about GPUs - there is more to a console, and a system designed for gaming, than just the GPU...

Pretty sure that's all there is to it. There's no funny magic here.

You are making a lot of assumptions and predictions with all of this.
There is more to writing an emulator than just being the same ISA, and considering the memory architecture is completely different and totally unique on the consoles, writing an emulator will be an incredibly difficult undertaking.

When it comes to emulation I know a few underground things. For example, Alexandro Sanchez the creator of Orbital shows his emulator is making good progress using a Virtual Machine. Spine which I think works like a traditional emulator is actually able to play a game. The creators of RPCS3 claim to be working a on PS4 emulator and it works but only in unix like OS and no graphics of course. So while it maybe a difficulty undertaking, the people writing these emulators are finding creative solutions to them.

Keep in mind that when Dolphin was created it emulated the GameCube while the GameCube was still selling, and when the Wii was released it quickly emulated that very quickly since it was just an overclocked GameCube. The Switch is also suffering the same issue as the Switch is very similar in design to the 3DS, and that's how emulator authors of Citra were able to make a working Switch emulator a year later. So once a PS4 emulator is written a PS5 emulator won't be too far off. The main issue with emulating Sony's consoles is their security chip, which does encrypt and decrypt some data. No telling what Sony will do for security on the PS5, but the security chip wasn't an issue for emulation on PC.

 

[Criticalhitkoala]

Since you have trouble reading, I'll restate what I said before: These long console cycles hold back games for a decade at a time and in the long run hurt gaming. They may serve the masses need for gaming but that doesn't address my point of them being harmful for gaming (esp. PC gaming) in the long run.

I'm a little confused at this statement. The pc gaming community hasn't been harmed in the long run for as far as this has gone on. More and more quality games are coming out. Some quality games like stardew Valley are pc first and then go to consoles. gaming went front a mid hundred millions industry to a trillion dollar industry and pc gaming is a huge part of it.

Hurt in the long run? I think more help. The problem with pc people like us is we think we are hot shit. That only our needs matter because we have the superior console. We even forget that some people just can't afford pcs. The fact is we all need each other. Pcs to showcase what's possible and consoles to deliver what's possible to everyone on a world stage.

Personal example. I love Apex. I play it on pc and ps4. But a lot of the really nice chill and downright more enjoyable players on my friends list are on ps4. They are people on Hawaii, Singapore, Germany and even the US that can't afford to get anything more than a 1050 in their country without paying insane prices. But we all hang out on a $200 system (which comes with a $60 controller btw), do group chat and have a good time. Sorry that's not cancer to me, nor do I believe as a fellow high end pc user that it is in anyway sticking it to me long term. As someone who's been playing pc games since the 286 days, pc games have gotten even better.

For those who feel like Consoles are bad, you are more than fine feeling the way you do, but I think most of you guys will notice that those who support consoles aren't exactly as black and white as you. For some people, being extremely opinionated and one sided is cool to them, but it always reminds me of that saying "When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful & difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid."

 

[Criticalhitkoala]

Not that niche. Worldwide, the C64 sold 17 million units Tandy CoCo , Atari 4 million, Amiga 5 million, MSX 5 million and ZX Spectrum 5 million, all in the same time period NES was born and died. While segmented compared to the NES, it was competitive. And until 1985, the entire gaming market outside Japan was held up up by these giants.

I think it might be niche man, those are rookie numbers. The same time period Nintendo sold 118.69 million Gameboys and 61.91 million Nintendos. Having lived in those days (which I assume you did also)...the difference was real. When our moms and grandma's would basically call video games "Get of the Nintendo"...you kinda knew it was Nintendo's decade. Funny enough my family did own a c64 first, but it was a curiousity...and nerdy...the Nintendo we got with Zelda, Mario, and Karnov was the first family entertainment system.

 

[Nolan7689]

Apex can suck a cock.

They fucked up titanfall, abandoned titanfall 3, and ruined titanfall 2.

Fuck EA and Fuck Apex. I wont get a PS5 because it touches that shit game

I agree EA royally fucked the release of Titanfall 2 up, but wasn’t Apex developed almost entirely in secret by Respawn, so EA wouldn’t meddle? It’s not my cup of tea but I have a hard time saying fuck the game that the developers wanted to create.

Now here’s hoping we do get a TF3 eventually.

 

[Aurelius]

So you don't remember the fiasco where companies were showing off games at E3 that looked better than the released version? Watch Dogs comes to mind where they had hidden files on PC. After nearly 7 years the PC industry has moved on so much that we subsist over higher resolutions like 4k and frame rates. A GTX 970 released in 2014 would still play today's games at 1080p nearly max settings without issue, and will probably continue to do so for another 2 years.

Halo would have been successful with or without the Xbox brand behind it. My opinion is that the Halo brand died because Microsoft wasn't funding Bungie enough so they could make quality games, and with Xbox as the only platform they can sell their games they had limited revenue. Hence why Bungie left Microsoft and is now on their own. This may also explain why some of the best games to come out on Xbox like CupHead and Ori and the Blind Forest are now on the more profitable Switch.

Oh, of course I remember. But I think you missed the point. Progress in gaming isn't just about making games look prettier; it's about making games more accessible, and helping developers focus on story rather than technology. And in that regard, consoles are doing just fine.

Besides, what would you suggest the industry do? Axe consoles altogether? "Sorry, folks, but if you want to play anything more sophisticated than phone games you're going to have to spend $800 or more on a decent gaming PC and learn how to maintain it. Everyone else? Go to hell." I will take the current situation all day, every day if it means that more people get to play games who couldn't afford or would be intimidated by PCs.

On Halo, I'd say this: early on its Xbox-only debut was helpful as it spurred console FPS development (and, for that matter, more story-driven FPS titles). I'll agree that Microsoft didn't do a great job of keeping Bungie happy as it wanted to spread its wings.

 

[DukenukemX]

Oh, of course I remember. But I think you missed the point. Progress in gaming isn't just about making games look prettier; it's about making games more accessible, and helping developers focus on story rather than technology. And in that regard, consoles are doing just fine.

I prefer gameplay personally.

Besides, what would you suggest the industry do? Axe consoles altogether?

Why would I suggest the industry to do anything? To truth is a lot of game developers have a hard on for PC gaming for a number of reasons. No need to pay Microsoft or Sony up to 30% of sales revenue. No need to have consumers pay a $10 monthly fee to play your micro-transaction riddled games online. Also no need for the latest hardware, as not all games need the latest greatest hardware to work. Games like CupHead, Hollow Knight, and Ori can run on a 10+ year old computer. The only real issue PC gaming has for them is piracy.

"Sorry, folks, but if you want to play anything more sophisticated than phone games you're going to have to spend $800 or more on a decent gaming PC and learn how to maintain it. Everyone else? Go to hell."

You do realize how popular mobile gaming is right? How much do you think those smart phones go for? What if the PS5 was $600? Would a $800 PC seem so bad?

On Halo, I'd say this: early on its Xbox-only debut was helpful as it spurred console FPS development (and, for that matter, more story-driven FPS titles). I'll agree that Microsoft didn't do a great job of keeping Bungie happy as it wanted to spread its wings.

Halo didn't bring more story driven FPS titles, that would be Half Life. All Halo did was bring about first person shooters that had a recoverable health bar and limited weapons to carry. Look how well that worked out for Duke Nukem Forever.

 

[Aurelius]

Why would I suggest the industry to do anything? To truth is a lot of game developers have a hard on for PC gaming for a number of reasons. No need to pay Microsoft or Sony up to 30% of sales revenue. No need to have consumers pay a $10 monthly fee to play your micro-transaction riddled games online. Also no need for the latest hardware, as not all games need the latest greatest hardware to work. Games like CupHead, Hollow Knight, and Ori can run on a 10+ year old computer. The only real issue PC gaming has for them is piracy.

Game developers like consoles for reasons beyond the relative dearth of piracy. There's a much larger audience, because they're considerably more affordable and accessible. And you do know that developers on Steam or the Epic Games Store have to give up a significant chunk of their revenue anyway, right? Yeah, some games can certainly run on old computers... but there's a high degree of irony to your complaining that games are being held back by consoles while simultaneously telling less affluent PC gamers to play less demanding games because they can't justify spending $800 every few years on a new rig. You're holding them back when a $400 console would let them play the latest games for 5-7 years.

You do realize how popular mobile gaming is right? How much do you think those smart phones go for? What if the PS5 was $600? Would a $800 PC seem so bad?

Of course I do. But here's the thing: most people need a phone, and they don't need to buy a top-tier phone to play even some of the more demanding games. And again, you're forgetting some important math here: even if the PS5 costs $600, it'll have several years of playing the latest games. That $800 PC will likely need at least one upgrade (probably the GPU) over that span to stay reasonably current, so you've spent a few hundred more than the PS5... and I can tell you now, that $800 PC probably won't have the PS5's SSD. It might not even have the visual prowess.

I think PC gaming is a fine hobby, but the notion of that being the only way to play more than mobile games? That's scary. I don't want to live in a world where fewer people can afford to play the latest games, where kids may have only limited opportunities to play, where you have to bend over backwards to bring gaming to your living room (and thus make it more social).