Planar PX2611W 26"

Discussion in 'Displays' started by ChakkaSol, Apr 15, 2007.

  1. amikoenig

    amikoenig [H]Lite

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    That's good news so far...

    Any final rating of GAMUT coverage? The rival NEC 2690 has 92% I think...

    But the question is, IN REAL LIFE, especially for doing PRINT work, is 92% realistic, or an over-kill, namely, in reality, do we USE those 92% or can we live with lower than that?...

    ....And I have to admit, I don't really know what's the difference between sRGB, and Adobe RGB, mentioned above... Again, seems to me more like THEORIES but nothing that makes a difference in real life...

    ...Or am I making silly claims here...
     
  2. ToastyX

    ToastyX [H]ard|Gawd

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    I keep seeing people using the term S-IPS in place of H-IPS, but they're not the same. From my experience with the NEC LCD2690WUXi, they have different characteristics. This monitor has an H-IPS panel, not S-IPS.

    People say S-IPS panels have good viewing angles, but they really have poor diagonal viewing angles. The colors don't shift, but S-IPS panels glow orange at slight diagonal angles and purple at extreme diagonal angles. Some of the newer S-IPS panels glow white instead, but the glow is just as intense. The glow is noticeable from a normal viewing position, especially in a dark room.

    S-PVA panels don't glow, but the colors wash out at slight angles.

    H-IPS is the best of both worlds. H-IPS panels have better viewing angles overall without the annoying glow. However, there is slight hue shifting at an angle. The colors get cooler when looking from the left or right and warmer when looking from above or below. Also, black turns red when looking from the right and green when looking from any other angle. These effects are subtle and are barely noticeable from a normal viewing position. The glow of S-IPS panels and the color shifting of S-PVA panels are much more noticeable.

    I'm going to get one of these monitors and compare it against the NEC LCD2690WUXi. I'll be able to verify if it's wide gamut or not, but if it lags, it's going back.
     
  3. amikoenig

    amikoenig [H]Lite

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    Where have you found this info about PX2611W having an H-IPS panel, ToastyX? All I know is that the panel it uses is "the same as the NEC 2690 has, which is LG's LM260WU1" -- to quote Planar's guy I talked to this afternoon...

    "I'm going to get one of these monitors and compare it against the NEC LCD2690WUXi." That would be great, ToastyX... When do you plan getting it (you mean Planar's PX2611W, right?), and do you already own the NEC 2690?

    If you really mean it, I would be more than happy to wait and read your report, 'cause I was like an HOUR from ordering the 2690 when I bumped into this thread which made me think again.........
     
  4. ToastyX

    ToastyX [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah, I have the NEC. I'll be getting the Planar within the next week.

    The NEC has an H-IPS panel, so if the Planar has the same panel, it should also be H-IPS.
     
  5. amikoenig

    amikoenig [H]Lite

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    Yes, you're right, the NEC 2690 has H-IPS, just checked it at this great comparison site:
    http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=88&mo1=92&p1=946&ma2=47&mo2=198&p2=1911&ph=6

    But that might as well mean that the PX2611W has that SAME H-IPS panel too, if the guy at Planar was right, claiming their product has the same LG LM260WU1 panel as the 2690 has...

    ....I'm eager to read your report, Toasty.... Hmmm... You must be spending your savings on monitors, while others buy cars;) ;) ;) ...
     
  6. Luthorcrow

    Luthorcrow [H]ard|Gawd

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    Actually that is about the only scenario where it would currently matter but only under certain conditions such as an ink jet printer or a special photo lab that supports aRGB output.

    But judging by the specs the NEC would be the better match. I don't see any listings of 12 bit gamma correction on this unit. It might be better for gaming or HDTV but I am guessing the NEC would beat it for photo/print work.

    On the other hand if it does either a H-IPS or S-IPS would seem that Dell would have to drop the price on the 2707 to compete.

    Be interesting to see your impressions ToastyX.
     
  7. amikoenig

    amikoenig [H]Lite

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    As far as COLOR, I'm not at all interested in any of the RGB versions (sRGB or Adobe RGB)... As a graphic designer I'm working with CMYK, which is what Offset printers use, Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black... Or solid (Pantone) colors... But of course, monitors use RGB, which is ALWAYS an issue when comparing a PRINTED piece to what's on the screen.... There is never a real match.
     
  8. Hudder

    Hudder [H]Lite

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    Sorry, I believed it was S-IPS. It was stated early in this thread that someone from Planar mailed a reply confirming it was S-IPS.

    The characteristics of the panel I experience are exactly as Toasty states. In regular use and working position, the colourations are just not noticeable. You have to go to a fully black or grey screen to really notice. The closer you are the worse it gets.

    It's absolutely wide gamut, and I don't know of any wide gamut screens which are not "92%". I just wonder why Planar doesn't put this into their documentation or write-ups.

    I could discern no input lag in the driving simulation I ran. It felt the exact same as my CRTs. I've been too busy for other tests, but I don't think you will be disappointed, Toasty...
     
  9. Hudder

    Hudder [H]Lite

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    hopefully someone with knowledge of screens, gamut, and print comes around.

    EIZO is a high end monitor maker. This is what they say on their site for the Coloredge CG241W monitor:

    "Wide Color Gamut
    The wide gamut LCD panel reproduces 96% of the Adobe RGB color space so it can display most colors in a photograph taken in Adobe RGB mode. It also covers CMYK color spaces used for printing so the monitor can produce a reliable soft proof when calibrated."


    So...it appears that the wide gamut will absolutely help you in seeing what you'll be printing.
     
  10. Rembrandt

    Rembrandt Gawd

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    First off the Panar has an H-ISP panel but what I think they have done is mate it with a standard backlight instead of the wide gamut backlight. The backlight is not part of a panel and the panel can be mated with different backlights at the discretion of the monitor’s manufacturer just like the electronics.
     
  11. kleox64

    kleox64 [H]ard|Gawd

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    this is true however the 26" LG Philips module is mass produced with wide gamut backlight, why would they produce another 26" module with a standard backlight for Planar. Planar would not be the ones doing what you are suggesting.
     
  12. Hudder

    Hudder [H]Lite

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    I have been working with computers for over 15 years. I came from CRTs recently, but also worked at a company with a couple LCDs. I know a big bump in colour when I see it. It's wide gamut.
     
  13. interpolator

    interpolator [H]Lite

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    It seems pretty pathetic that all the potential customers for Planar are left to guess about the capabilities of the display and that Planar is unable to adequately disclose or explain the capabilities of the monitor when potential customers call Planar up for explanation. I recently noted quite a few of this model available at one of our distributors and really wonder who would really buy this monitor given that the US distributor is so in the dark about its capabilities. God help any Planar buyer if the unit has a problem and its needs service under the "3 year" warranty. I cannot help but notice the nice 2 day down time guarantee on the warranty. Maybe the upside of all this it that Planar's expected customer service is so slack that one will just be provided a automatic replacement of the display if problems occur during the terms of the warranty.
     
  14. UrielDagda

    UrielDagda 2[H]4U

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    Okay after reading this thread I am drooling for one. :p

    Guess I will have to put off my purchasing decision for a month. Is there any place that will exchange for any dead/stuck pixels? I would hate to cough up a grand just to be stuck with annoying pixels, seeing as this is my first LCD.. I have been too paranoid to buy due to some of those issues.

    Edit: I would also like to know how DVDs look on this? Is there that "twinkling" problem that I have heard of.. and if so, how severe is it?

    Edit #2: Another question.. does this come with a DVI-D cable, or will I have to buy one ahead of time?
     
  15. kleox64

    kleox64 [H]ard|Gawd

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    TW-IPS. AS-IPS, H-IPS and S-IPS all are derivatives of IPS.
     
  16. amikoenig

    amikoenig [H]Lite

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    interpolator,

    I called other LCD manufacturers (Eizo, and even more - BenQ) and got the same "ignorant" kind of responses... So I don't think Planar is to be singled out.

    You say "God help any Planar buyer if the unit has a problem and its needs service under the "3 year" warranty." --- and I say God help any electronics buyer if there is a problem... I think what Planar does, REPLACING your unit within 2 days, shipping on THEM -- is BY FAR better than telling you to CARRY/SHIP IT FOR REPAIR -- expecting YOU to pay for the shipping also, as ANY of the others do (be it Sony, Panasonic, Samsung or any of the others)....

    I think your comment is somewhat dishonest. And this is from a guy who is not "sold" on Planar and STILL hesitating which LCD to buy...
     
  17. imagemonger

    imagemonger n00bie

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    I want to thank everyone who's written in this post, so much even that I decided to join the forum to partake in this discussion. It's a fantastic place where several opinions are allow to swim together without necessarily colliding.

    I for one am really convinced about this monitor (currently saving pennies) but I have a question that I haven't seen answer yet. I plan to use this primarily for PC usage (design/3d modeling), however I'm into gaming as well, this question derives from that secondary usage, does anyone know if connecting this to a ps3/xbox360 is a possibility (with the correct 1:1 screen ratio)?

    Once again, thank you for a great discussion and a great forum.

    Cheers.
     
  18. UrielDagda

    UrielDagda 2[H]4U

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    Are you guys 110% sure this is H-IPS? Googling around I can't find any talk of H-IPS in anything but LaCie and NEC monitors. Maybe it's just too damn new. I would just like a definitive confirmation if anybody comes up with anything.
     
  19. amikoenig

    amikoenig [H]Lite

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    If both NEC 2690 and Planar PX2611W are using the same LG's LM260WU1 panel, and we know the NEC is H-IPS --- wouldn't it be expected for the Planar to be H-IPS also? My logic says yes, but what do I know about LCD displays, so I'm asking...
     
  20. UrielDagda

    UrielDagda 2[H]4U

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    yeah, that's just what I am trying to be sure of, that it is using the same LG panel and it's not a mistake or rumor.. Planar might actually sell a hell of a lot more monitors if they published these facts in their user manuals at the very least! Planar seems like a company with decent monitors, but they have horrible advertising abilities.
     
  21. amikoenig

    amikoenig [H]Lite

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    The truth is -- NOBODY among those LCD manufacturers is publishing ANY indication as to what kind of technology their panels use... I didn't find anywhere in NEC's specs the name H-IPS, nor did I find in any of the others' (Eizo, BenQ, and probably others too) specs sheets any such indication...

    Correct me if I'm wrong... The only way for me to find out is reading thru these excellent boards...

    And BTW, I downloaded both the NEC 2690 and the Planar PX2611W manuals (PDF files). While NEC's is longer, I can't say it is profoundly better as far as explaining how to set up the monitor, or other general information... Actually if you go to the 2690 thread, many 2690 owners are complaining about NEC's manual being almost worthless...
     
  22. UrielDagda

    UrielDagda 2[H]4U

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    Heh, yeah seems like most manuals are worthless for monitors.. I have even had a few that didn't even come with any. Well I guess with NEC and LaCie the difference is they are at least telling reviewers about it.. That's where I see a lot of that information. Didn't really see any for this model Planar out there. I wish there had been at least one review of it done out there.

    Anybody with this monitor watch any DVDs on it? I would really like to know if there is any "twinkling" problem with it, since I watch a lot of movies.
     
  23. amikoenig

    amikoenig [H]Lite

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    There are only TWO who actually posted their own "reviews" -- one here (hudder), and there is another guy in one of the "shoping" sites (forgot where), that gave it a good (but very short) review. This product is brand new, so it will take some time before the professionals will come up with their own review...
     
  24. wEvil

    wEvil Limp Gawd

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    Well i'm now teetering on the edge of getting a PX2611w unless there are any show stoppers.

    I'll need bandages encase the wife attacks me with a frying pan though - $1k on a monitor is still an awful lot of money :(

    Did anyone actually run a test to see whether this panel is wide gamut or not? I mean, don't the calibration kits actually test for this?
     
  25. UrielDagda

    UrielDagda 2[H]4U

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    Boy, am I glad I am not married. I'll just wake up the day after I get it and hit myself in the head with a frying pan for spending that much. :D

    I am all but sold on this monitor.. Just gotta get a little bit more cash together!
     
  26. amikoenig

    amikoenig [H]Lite

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    We're eager to read one of our posters here, ToastyX, who promised to get the 26" Planar and compare it to the NEC 2690 he already owns (I can only guess he's not at all married :D).

    I am in touch with one of Planar's engineers who wrote to me that this display has a 92% gamut, and has a S-IPS panel. Am still wondering why would this one be a S-IPS if the comparable NEC is H-IPS, both having the same excat LG panel, as Palanar claims and as I noted above...
     
  27. UrielDagda

    UrielDagda 2[H]4U

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    Well, if its the same panel then it is H-IPS.. Although I think some people would call it S-IPS generically, since it's just another form of it.
     
  28. kleox64

    kleox64 [H]ard|Gawd

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    exactly, the generic term is S-IPS these days.
     
  29. DeadByDawn

    DeadByDawn Limp Gawd

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    Still waiting for someone to test out some FPS on it
     
  30. amikoenig

    amikoenig [H]Lite

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    Ummm... excuse my ignorance, but what's FPS?
     
  31. DeadByDawn

    DeadByDawn Limp Gawd

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    Gaming. first person shooters.
    Games like BF2142 or DOOM3, etc.
     
  32. UrielDagda

    UrielDagda 2[H]4U

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    Hmm what happened to the people who own this monitor.. I hope they weren't just shills! :D

    Seriously though.. I just need a few questions answered that only somebody with the monitor could answer. I am so leaning towards getting it, just need that little bit more info.
     
  33. amikoenig

    amikoenig [H]Lite

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    Actually Hudder is the only member here who owns this monitor. ToastyX promissed he's getting one "in a week"... So we have to be patient...

    ...I'm at the same place as you are, Uriel, very close to make up my mind, but need a bit more feedback and confidence...
     
  34. Hudder

    Hudder [H]Lite

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    I am around, how can I help, guys? And what did I say about knowing this was wide gamut just from looking at it? ;)

    Ami, I was so filled with doubt on my first LCD purchase. I took the plunge on something no one had seen before, and no reviews. It was very unlike me. I ordered it once before and canceled it. I'm glad I didn't cancel it again. Ordered it off newegg btw. My review is now up :). Though I forgot to mention how it's got no input delay (for the gamers). I had never ever reviewed anything I bought, which is a LOT, and I felt this unknown monitor really deserved it. Just KNOW this is a great buy. Ami, you won't gain anything truly significant by buying the NEC. Get the Planar, and a hardware calibration kit if colour accuracy is important for you.
     
  35. amikoenig

    amikoenig [H]Lite

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    I'm also a person who does a lot of research before buying anything over $50... Except the car I bought (brand new model)... I went in just for snooping and got such a deal I couldn't resist it, which turned out to be a truly great buy...

    ...Yes, I'm close to make the deal. Just wanted to read ToastyX's review.... What's there to lose...
     
  36. ToastyX

    ToastyX [H]ard|Gawd

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    The Planar came in yesterday.

    Forget what I said about H-IPS panels having better viewing angles. NEC must have done something to improve the viewing angles because the Planar glows white at an angle like newer S-IPS panels. Other than that, it has similar characteristics to the NEC, so it looks like the same panel, but the NEC doesn't glow white for some reason, which makes it look significantly better than the Planar.

    The NEC is on the left, and the Planar is on the right:
    [​IMG]

    As for gamut, it's definitely wide gamut. There's no doubt about it. I'll take measurements with a colorimeter later.

    As for lag, there's definitely less lag than the NEC. The Planar has less than one frame of lag, while the NEC has about two frames of lag. See this post for more information: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1031259394#post1031259394

    As for response time, "5 ms GTG featuring Planar's RapidVideo™ accelerator, 12 ms (5.5 rise, 6.5 fall)" seems to indicate overdrive is being used, but if that's the case, I certainly can't tell. I don't see any overdrive artifacts. Either it's very well done, or it's not working at all. I have no way of knowing for sure, but I can see overdrive artifacts on every other monitor with overdrive, including the NEC when enabled.

    Someone asked about the anti-glare coating. The Planar has a mild anti-glare coating like the NEC, not aggressive like the Apple Cinema Display.

    The Planar has a dead red subpixel, which shows up as cyan on white. The panel is also not centered properly. The left side is almost touching the bezel at the top, while the right side has plenty of space.

    The Planar has significantly more backlight bleeding than the NEC, especially on the right side:
    [​IMG]



    The Planar has the same faint horizontal lines that the NEC has, and just like on the NEC, the lines are stronger on the left side of the screen. I don't get it. Am I the only one that can see the lines? Nobody else has reported the lines on either monitor, but I don't think it's a coincidence that two monitors with the same panel have the same lines.

    Here is an emulation of what the lines look like:
    [​IMG]

    The lines are very subtle, but the problem is strong enough to affect image quality. I can't even view that image properly on the left side of the screen because the lines on the monitor either double or cancel out the lines in the image, depending on what row of pixels the image starts on.



    The Planar also has the same problem with checkerboard pixel patterns that the NEC has, and just like on the NEC, the problem is worse in the bottom-left corner of the screen.

    Here is one such pattern:
    http://www.toastyx.net/lcd2690wuxi/pattern1.png

    When I drag that image to the bottom-left corner of the screen, some of the square rings turn red, and the rest of the image turns green. The image is supposed to be black and white.

    Here is another pattern:
    http://www.toastyx.net/lcd2690wuxi/pattern2.png

    When I drag that image to the bottom-left corner of the screen, the checkerboard pixel pattern bleeds into the gray, which is supposed to be solid.



    I tested the Planar with the PS3 and a cable box:

    1080p is supported without stretching or cropping the image. However, when set to not stretch the image, the colors are slightly degraded, which causes banding in gradients. Why does every monitor manage to screw something up? That doesn't happen when set to fill the screen, but then the image is stretched. The NEC has no trouble with 1080p.

    1080i is supported with some sort of bob deinterlacing, but it has the same banding problem. The NEC doesn't support 1080i. The capability seems to be there, but the feature is intentionally blocked.

    720p is scaled properly and doesn't have the banding problem. The NEC has no trouble with 720p either.

    480p is treated as 3:2, like on most monitors. It should be 4:3 though. The NEC can scale 480p properly, but a line of tearing travels slowly up the screen from time to time.

    480i doesn't seem to work. All I get is a green screen. The NEC doesn't support 480i either.

    The black bars are a weird shade of blue by default, and there's no way to make them totally black. There's a setting called SIDE COLOR which allows you to customize the border color, but even when all the RGB values are set to 0%, it's still not black. It's more like a dark purple. Who designs this stuff?



    The OSD on the Planar is suspiciously similar to the OSD on the NEC 20WMGX2. The layout is similar. The terms are similar. The font is the same. There's even the same sharpness quirk. The Planar also uses a similar 4-way joystick to navigate the menu.

    Here are some of the settings:

    DV MODE: The only usable mode is TEXT. sRGB mode turns the screen pink. All the other modes have banding. I don't even see the point of the other modes.
    BRIGHTNESS: This setting controls the luminance of the backlight. The brightness can be set to any value without affecting the colors.
    CONTRAST: The contrast should be left at 50%. Higher settings crush whites. Lower settings reduce the contrast without degrading the colors.
    SHARPNESS: The sharpness should be set to 40%. At the default 50%, there are extremely faint vertical lines in horizontal gradients. The NEC 20WMGX2 has a similar quirk.

    EXPANSION MODE: The expansion mode can only be set when using a non-native resolution. The setting is global, so it affects all resolutions.
    FULL: Stretches the image to fill the screen
    ASPECT: Scales the image while maintaining the aspect ratio
    REAL: Centers the image without scaling (1:1)

    The color presets are useless. They're not even close to correct. The gain and offset settings aren't much help either. They affect certain shades more than others, which makes it impossible to get an even grayscale. The saturation setting doesn't even work in TEXT or sRGB mode.

    The OSD is very quirky. For instance, if you max out the saturation setting, the percentage values change, so you can't set it to exactly 0% anymore. The brightness setting also has a similar quirk.



    Overall, the only thing better about the Planar is it has less lag, and it's cheaper. The NEC has better viewing angles and much better color control along with the ability to hardware calibrate it.
     
  37. LittleMeEgo

    LittleMeEgo Limp Gawd

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    Okay I just ordered one from buy.com with the coupon. Best price out there. Not sure when it will arrive.

    I do both gaming and photoshop/photography. I spend more hours gaming and surfing than photo editing though. I called their tech support (toll free) twice and they answered quickly and were polite and as helpful as they could be. I asked about ghosting and they weren't sure but presumed with the 5ms response that it should not be a problem. They don't have this monitor there to test.

    Also they said that H-IPS doesn't exist and that it's S-IPS. I told them that other companies were marketing displays as H-IPS and he said it's most likely a marketing thing. They also confirmed that it is not using dynamic contrast which would lag the video input.

    Here is a page that talks about S-IPS and other LCD display technologies:

    http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/lcd-panel-types.php

    In particular note is this line, for gaming: "However, gamers should take this into consideration. Fast paced games may suffer from motion blur or ghosting with S-IPS panels that have a response time higher than 8ms."

    This display is rated less than 8ms. My current 22" CRT is about seven years old now and I need the upgrade. I'm just wondering how I can evaluate pics in sRGB for web publishing. I use both AdobeRGB and sRGB (the latter for web, obviously).

    They tech support said they'd replace a unit with 3 or more dead or stuck pixels. They also said the tricks to un-stick pixels like a warm water cloth or pressing with a pencil eraser don't work. I shall see. Heh.

    I'm moderately shocked how bad all these companies are at helping us in making a purchase decision. Just knowing for sure what display technology is used is often a challenge. That's just one example. tsk tsk! Some monitors whine, or have occational one second blackouts, etc. Yikes! LCD seems more shoddy than CRT.

    My understanding is that this panel is the best kind, the S-IPS and is better than the A-MVA for example. Is this correct? I guess it's partly subjective.. ?
     
  38. Luthorcrow

    Luthorcrow [H]ard|Gawd

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    ToastyX, any chance you could take some pics of both panels displaying a gradient test pattern? I noticed when comparing screens on this site Les Numeriques that the biggest difference in comparison between the cheap and better panels was the gradient comparisons.

    [​IMG]
     
  39. amikoenig

    amikoenig [H]Lite

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    Thanks, ToastyX.

    Sorry to say, but some of the images, espcially the 2 "pattern" links that you posted show us (me, at least) nothing... I also downloaded the "faint horizontal lines" blue box, opened it in Photoshop and saw nothing but a blue box... Maybe the details are too subtle for my current 22" ViewSonic monitor? That might as well be..

    What's TRULY AMAZING here, is that the Planar is in so many ways similar to the NEC 2690 (as you claim, which makes sense since they both use the same panel) yet suddenly we realize that the super-expensive 2690 IS NOT AS PERFECT as we (me, at least) would expect from a super-power like NEC... Ha!

    OK, let's get to the bottom line: Me, as a GRPAPHIC DESIGNER who's sitting in front of the monitor for some 8 hours daily, doing Desktop Publishing (I hate this definition) and some Photoshop work (grayscale and color correction and manipulation), NO games involved ---- what's your verdict for me, ToastyX?

    I understand and accept that I would need to CALIBRATE the monitor immediately when I get it (which system would you suggest that's not over $200?).

    What do you think? Thanks!
     
  40. UrielDagda

    UrielDagda 2[H]4U

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    Nov 16, 2004
    Wow that is some backlight bleeding.. I wonder if Hudder would check his in the dark and try to take a pic also.. Seems like backlight bleeding is entirely random between different monitors though. I also heard S-IPS displays have a lot of "twinkling" effect with DVD, either of you test that out on the Planar? I want to know if it does if it looks horrid. And does the Planar come with a DVI-D cable in the box?

    That backlight bleeding is a worry though, I just have to wonder if its a Planar problem or just a random thing.