Piracy = Theft? Movie Industry Workers Speak Out

[Ur_Mom]

I'd rather look the other way, but how can anyone believe that piracy doesn't affect sales? We would absolutely see higher sales if there was no way to obtain something other than to buy it legally.

Not really. I've been burned a lot by buying shitty movies. I'll rent or wait for Netflix to watch them before I buy them. Even 'blockbusters' have disappointed me. So, I don't buy movies on release day (or games).

Lost sales? No. I just wait until I can preview the material before making my decision. If it's good - I'll buy it. If not, I skip it. I own a decent amount of movies, and have paid full price on a select few.

 

[JeffDC]

Like when you are a victim of Microsoft?

So far the first and last OS I ever bought for money was Netware 2.1, circa 1985 or 6. I was planning to buy Win2k at one point but XP replaced it before it happened. With WPA MS lost me forever as a potential paying customer. I feel no moral obligation whatsoever to not only perpetuate a monopoly, but get its permission whenever I wish to change my own computer hardware. The corporate prostitution thrusts exactly as deep and hard as it's allowed to.

 

[ManofGod]

So far the first and last OS I ever bought for money was Netware 2.1, circa 1985 or 6. I was planning to buy Win2k at one point but XP replaced it before it happened. With WPA MS lost me forever as a potential paying customer. I feel no moral obligation whatsoever to not only perpetuate a monopoly, but get its permission whenever I wish to change my own computer hardware. The corporate prostitution thrusts exactly as deep and hard as it's allowed to.

Then you should feel no moral obligation to use their products on your own devices. Guess you justify that when you wreck mom's car as well, eh? Now, if you were using Linux, then ok, that is fine. However, if you are using MS Operating Systems without paying for them, yes, it is theft.

 

[BroHamBone]

I feel very similar to you on this. As a kid I may have made bad decisions, many of which were because $4.75/hr didn't pay for much lol. Now that I can afford them I find myself more willing to pay for things like netflix and prime and just browse the movies for something to watch.

Yes, I love steam, some games I get guilted into buying because of the sale and may not even get around to playing it. So they have found a way to not only distribute and easily manage games but get people to buy stuff they aren't in a hurry to play. Now if the movie industry can develop that kind of model....

As a kid, i loved going to the same movie over and over. Now it is not feasable due to the price of a ticket. The theatres have not changed much except a huge increase in price. One other change is IMAX, and the price increase for it is understandable since it is "new".

I agree with you about steam. They even provide F2P games that are entertaining.

I have amazon prime membership, it still costs to watch an episode of Friends when they play that show on 5 different networks for a 2+ hour block 5 days a week.

Yes piracy, stealing and selling for personal gain, is horrible. The price of movie tickets are horrid as well. Then you have to worry about getti,g shot for yellin at the dumbass talking/texting on their phone.

 

[JeffDC]

Then you should feel no moral obligation to use their products on your own devices.

Who said I did? I just explained why I don't. Practicality is a separate issue. Unless you're claiming it's ok to force people to either buy MS's products or not use a telephone, or communicate effectively with 90+% of the world's desktops etc.

 

[nightfly]

In the 80's and 90's I purchased lots of software, and I'd say more than half of it did not do what the box said it would. So in those cases, the companies ripped me off. In many cases, it took hours to get it to work. Again, they ripped me off. Then you have cases like DOS6, with the doulblespace debacle, whereby the software actually did damage to my computers files which required me to work many hours to fix it. In that case, I consider it microsoft stealing from me, and I added up the hourly repair time and they still owe me money. Same with AOL filling my computer up with crap.
Today I still pirate software when initially using it, because I've been burned so many times; but if I keep using it after i evaluate it, I buy it. If I don't end up keeping it because it sucks, I don't pay for it. To the software companies I say, be honest with how you advertise your product. If you deceive the customer about how easy to use, or how good your product is, then you deserve to have people steal from you, because you're an asshole who intentionally screws the poor guy who honestly believes your pitch and gets ripped off because he has to buy another product to replace your crappy one.

 

[H-street]

Same with AOL filling my computer up with crap.

PEBKAC

 

[nightfly]

PEBKAC

Nope. Early AOL editions kept virtually every page it rendered on the computer itself to speed up the user experience, but that meant taking over huge hunks of hard disk space, or it would slow to a crawl. When AOL was in it's hayday, everybody wanted it, so there really wasn't much of a choice; even compuserve's interface was way more difficult to navigate; to the average person, AOL WAS the internet to them, remember this was in the days of dial up with maybe a 9600 modem if you were lucky. If you had kids it was the only way.
Me, I was on old bbs before the net was an 'in' thing. Every once in a while with all the crap on web pages, I get nostalgic for my old orange monochrome monitor, and the simple text interface. The only time I used AOL was to help other people fix their problems.

 

[djgizmo]

Piracy is something that consumers needs as a method to regulate pricing. Same goes for used copies. WITHOUT THESE TOOLS THE PRICE OF SOFTWARE GOODS WILL STAY HIGH. The only other method to lower prices of software is to simply wait. Overtime the interest of consumers of those products begins to decline and prices are adjusted accordingly.

When it comes to entertainment goods it's more difficult cause there isn't a competing product in a sense. Each game, movie, or song is unique and nothing like it exists. Therefore the content creator has more control over the pricing of their products. Go back to the 360/PS3 release and both companies announced games to cost $60. Regardless of quality and consumer reactions of the games the price is always going to be $60. That's the reason why movies and games both suffer in quality, cause that's the expected price. There's no incentive to create a better game or movie if the going rate is STANDARD PRICE. The only way a consumer can vote with their wallet is not buying the movie on DVD and waiting a while longer to buy a game.

How many of us pirated a game or movie and then like it so much they bought it? Why? Cause you wanted to try it before you buy it, cause otherwise you'd be stuck with a sub par product.

no no no ... and just no.

Your are the consumer. You don't get to tell businesses how to price their product, no matter how much you think it is 'crap'.

Also, there is no regulatory body in the world that could examine each piece of software and determine its value. What about enterprise software? What about software meant for niche markets, like dispatching, and logistics.

Doesn't matter if you pirated whatever and then bought it later... it's the equivalent of punching a guy in the stomach, then apologizing. Or if you want to use the theft analogy, stealing a car off a car lot, then going back and paying for it.

If you don't like the prices of entertainment... GET A JOB. I'm disappointed in Steve and the other admins allowing the discussion of saying pirating is OK. We all know pirating is wrong period.

 

[lilbabycat]

no no no ... and just no.

Your are the consumer. You don't get to tell businesses how to price their product, no matter how much you think it is 'crap'.

Also, there is no regulatory body in the world that could examine each piece of software and determine its value. What about enterprise software? What about software meant for niche markets, like dispatching, and logistics.

Doesn't matter if you pirated whatever and then bought it later... it's the equivalent of punching a guy in the stomach, then apologizing. Or if you want to use the theft analogy, stealing a car off a car lot, then going back and paying for it.

If you don't like the prices of entertainment... GET A JOB. I'm disappointed in Steve and the other admins allowing the discussion of saying pirating is OK. We all know pirating is wrong period.

Wow I didn't realize it was that cut and dry. Thanks Mr. RIAA.

 

[Biznatch]

no no no ... and just no.

Your are the consumer. You don't get to tell businesses how to price their product, no matter how much you think it is 'crap'.

Also, there is no regulatory body in the world that could examine each piece of software and determine its value. What about enterprise software? What about software meant for niche markets, like dispatching, and logistics.

Doesn't matter if you pirated whatever and then bought it later... it's the equivalent of punching a guy in the stomach, then apologizing. Or if you want to use the theft analogy, stealing a car off a car lot, then going back and paying for it.

If you don't like the prices of entertainment... GET A JOB. I'm disappointed in Steve and the other admins allowing the discussion of saying pirating is OK. We all know pirating is wrong period.

Yea, and to all the non-rich people, just stop being poor. Why is that so hard....

Your analogies are terrible as both of them cause physical damage (punching someone, stealing a car and driving it around) to something, where pirating does not.

 

[H-street]

Yea, and to all the non-rich people, just stop being poor. Why is that so hard....

Your analogies are terrible as both of them cause physical damage (punching someone, stealing a car and driving it around) to something, where pirating does not.

When is working hard for what you want a bad thing?

Fat Tony: Bart, is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family?
Bart: No.
Fat Tony: Well, suppose you got a large starving family. Is it wrong to steal a truckload of bread to feed them?
Bart: Uh uh.
Fat Tony: And, what if your family don't like bread? They like... cigarettes?
Bart: I guess that's okay.
Fat Tony: Now, what if instead of giving them away, you sold them at a price that was practically giving them away. Would that be a crime, Bart?
Bart: Hell, no.

 

[Kueller]

When is working hard for what you want a bad thing?

When real (purchasing power adjusted) wage growth has been flat for 40 years?

 

[H-street]

When real (purchasing power adjusted) wage growth has been flat for 40 years?

and this is why these types of discussions never work..

the truth is it doesn't matter if Piracy is right or wrong... you just feel entitled to it anyways..

 

[JeffDC]

If you don't like the prices of entertainment... GET A JOB. I'm disappointed in Steve and the other admins allowing the discussion of saying pirating is OK. We all know pirating is wrong period.

Please provide the complete list of allowable discussion topics, so the mods will have at least some idea.

Also you really need to learn how to speak for yourself. "We all" don't "know" piracy is wrong, some of us have actually done the homework and read the studies (instead of simply regurgitating MPSS/BSA horseshit) to know that nobody is victimized by it.

 

[JeffDC]

sorry s/b MPAA/BSA

 

[ManofGod]

Please provide the complete list of allowable discussion topics, so the mods will have at least some idea.

Also you really need to learn how to speak for yourself. "We all" don't "know" piracy is wrong, some of us have actually done the homework and read the studies (instead of simply regurgitating MPSS/BSA horseshit) to know that nobody is victimized by it.

There is right and there is wrong in this situation. Your "studying" of the subject matter does not change reality. Justification seems to be what folks often do best though.

 

[JeffDC]

There is right and there is wrong in this situation. Your "studying" of the subject matter does not change reality. Justification seems to be what folks often do best though.

The reality is that any pirated copy of anything generates multiple legal sales. Don't take my word for it, open your brain and do the homework.

 

[ManofGod]

The reality is that any pirated copy of anything generates multiple legal sales. Don't take my word for it, open your brain and do the homework.

That is just simple justification regardless of the outcome. A ends justify the means prospect that does not need an "open brain", just someone who is capable of having a good moral compass.

 

[spintroniX]

From wikipedia:
"In common usage, theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it."

Piracy is therefore not theft, since downloading a movie file doesn't deprive the owner of the movie. The cash in my pocket is not there lawful property, so I cannot deprive them of it.

IT IS copyright infringement, which is a separate issue.

Is it unethical ? Maybe.

 

[JeffDC]

That is just simple justification regardless of the outcome. A ends justify the means prospect that does not need an "open brain", just someone who is capable of having a good moral compass.

A compass is useless without a brain.

 

[H-street]

From wikipedia:
"In common usage, theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it."

Piracy is therefore not theft, since downloading a movie file doesn't deprive the owner of the movie. The cash in my pocket is not there lawful property, so I cannot deprive them of it.

IT IS copyright infringement, which is a separate issue.

Is it unethical ? Maybe.

LOL here come the drive-by's - we even got a Wikipedia quote and a Maybe on the only question that is either a Yes or No answer..

 

[JeffDC]

From wikipedia:
"In common usage, theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it."

Piracy is therefore not theft, since downloading a movie file doesn't deprive the owner of the movie. The cash in my pocket is not there lawful property, so I cannot deprive them of it.

IT IS copyright infringement, which is a separate issue.

Is it unethical ? Maybe.

Anything worth buying is WORTH BUYING and it will be successful. Piracy does nothing to hinder this, in fact it furthers distribution for films, every sharing of it is a new source of potential legal sales. There is no victim.

 

[Biznatch]

LOL here come the drive-by's - we even got a Wikipedia quote and a Maybe on the only question that is either a Yes or No answer..

Ok, how about the definition of theft from the dictionary that says the same thing as wikipedia. Is that a good enough source for you? http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theft

Is it unethical? Sure, why not. When they play by their own rules, I'll follow their lead. I can only get F'd in the A by these 'content holders' for so long before I return the favor with my 'unethical' activities.

 

[ManofGod]

A compass is useless without a brain.

A moral compass cannot be had without one.

 

[JeffDC]

A moral compass cannot be had without one.

Truer words have never been spoken. Now go do your homework.

 

[ManofGod]

Truer words have never been spoken. Now go do your homework.

You mean, I would have to agree with you in order to have a moral compass? I think not, now you may want to go do your own homework. Theft is theft no matter what a court or person may say or how you may define it. Justify away though as has been done so far.

 

[JeffDC]

You mean, I would have to agree with you in order to have a moral compass? I think not

I think not too. I'm not asking you to agree with me, I'm asking you to research the studies on this issue and see if the direction of compass changes just a little bit. Even if it doesn't, at least your opinion will be based on knowledge instead of knee-jerk MPAA propaganda.

 

[ManofGod]

I think not too. I'm not asking you to agree with me, I'm asking you to research the studies on this issue and see if the direction of compass changes just a little bit. Even if it doesn't, at least your opinion will be based on knowledge instead of knee-jerk MPAA propaganda.

Interesting considering I have never looked into the MPAA or listened to what they have to say. Assuming is not good.

 

[Ticker305]

Theft to me is selling a broken product with no means to recover your money back. In that case an actual object is taken (my cash), which is not the case in file sharing since it is copied. The car industry has the Lemon law that protects consumers and even offer test drives (demos) before you buy, even most restaurants will comp you the meal if you are unsatisfied with it, but wheres our lemon law when it comes to broken software. The origin 24 hour money back guarantee is a start in the right direction, but I don't see that model widely adopted by the industry any time soon when many of the big players business models are practically modeled around selling the consumer a broken beta as a finished product.

 

[Biznatch]

You mean, I would have to agree with you in order to have a moral compass? I think not, now you may want to go do your own homework. Theft is theft no matter what a court or person may say or how you may define it. Justify away though as has been done so far.

Wrong. You can't just redefine a word and say it is what it is because it's what you feel. You don't agree with it? That's fine, it still doesn't change anything.

 

[djc5166]

I used to pirate pretty much every PC/Xbox game that didn't have a worth-wile online component (note: XBL is almost never worth-wile)

Now that Steam and all these other forms of digital distribution exist in full force, it is so much more convenient to just buy the thing digitally than muck around with piracy. The only games I care to "pirate" now are new games with strictly physical distribution models (are there any?), or old games that simply do not exist in retail anymore (Is pirating something you can only buy used up for debate here?...).

I see all these articles on how piracy hurt/helps/doesn't affect the industry, not so many on things like Steam generating massive revenue for some game you wouldn't even have heard about unless you saw it on a torrent site.

Movies/TV is another issue to me though. Until there is a steam or GOG-like service for movies/TV, I'm not biting. (itunes and netflix need not apply)

 

[ManofGod]

Wrong. You can't just redefine a word and say it is what it is because it's what you feel. You don't agree with it? That's fine, it still doesn't change anything.

So, if you took something without paying for it, it is not theft then? I took a copy of the Skyrim game because I just had to have it, but, I did not steal it, they still have the original. Really, I will pay for it, eventually, just let me play it awhile to see if I like it. Justification is still just that, justification no matter how it is spun.

 

[pcjunkie]

So, if you took something without paying for it, it is not theft then? I took a copy of the Skyrim game because I just had to have it, but, I did not steal it, they still have the original. Really, I will pay for it, eventually, just let me play it awhile to see if I like it. Justification is still just that, justification no matter how it is spun.

Its copyright infringement not theft...yes there is a difference even though they are both against the law.