Piracy -- No longer an excuse imo

[Q-BZ]

It doesn't need to have a valid point. As long as people can get something without paying for it, they are GOING to steal it. It's happened with countless items and types of items over the centuries. If you want to stop piracy/theft of all sorts, you should be prepared to alter human nature. In other words, it's not going to happen.

'Nuff said.

 

[SirMaster]

no excuse to steal someone elese's work period. There is always a legal way to get something. You can pay full price, wait til it goes on sale, trade, etc....

This is incorrect.

There are some rare CDs and bootlegs I had to pirate because they are not available anywhere. They were created in extremely limited quantities and will never be created again.

Tracking down the couple hundred owners in the whole world can be impossible for some of these. And perhaps none of the owners want to part with their copies.

Exactly who is losing the money by me pirating one of them if they aren't available to buy?

 

[Weenis]

There are times when you just need to actually play a game to see if you'll like it. I don't condone "piracy" in the sense of downloading a game that you have legitimate interest in and then playing teh whole thing and never buying it.

But you can't tell me watching videos will let you know if you are interested... theres a "feel" to certain games that makes gameplay.

Let's say for instance guns having a real feeling, latency.. etc.. If I'm shooting someone in the chest witha 50 cal round and they don't die, it's going to anger me greatly. Or for instance if you download a copy of a game you preorder because it got leaked...

already paid for it.. you just want to get a taste/see how it runs etc

I downloaded skyrim prior to release, it didn't work though -- but you know what.. if I was on the edge of whether or not I wanted it I would guarantee you it would've solidifed the sale..

I bought skyrim on preorder because it looked great, and it was well worth it. Some people don't want to take the chance - they want to KNOW they're getting a valuable piece of software.

Software development is hard work, I know, I've done it. But as a developer you know that your product has to be WORTH the cost to the audience.. people outside your target audience is why demos/trials exist.

Seeing/reading about something isn't the same as playing/using it. Period.

 

[Xephian]

The most laughable reason to pirate, it the " I can't afford to buy" excuse. If you took a part time job at McDonalds, you would be able to afford it in a couple of shifts. And the likes of McDonalds are always hiring, even in this economy.

Because video games are the only things they are going to put their money into. As others have said, if they can get it for free by simply searching for a torrent without having to pay, then they will.

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

<<<deleted in respect to Oldie's recommendation regarding this topic & no one quoting my post...>>>

 

[Gnasher]

Those numbers are all fabrications of their delusional minds to try and con us into accepting their DRM Naziism. You are also making the asinine assumption that every pirated copy is a lost sale.

 

[-Sn1PeR-]

Does it seem like everyone is avoiding the fact that the console version of every game has leaked and been rampantly pirated a week or more before the actual release date? Console pirates are getting the full, online capable, drm free version of games before they are even released and no one ever seems to talk about that.

Every time someone calls PC users pirates (looking at you Ubisoft) I want to show them my Steam library stuffed full of 347 legally purchased titles...

 

[EvilPokemon]

Well, I think you spend the same, perhaps more, on gaming compared to myself. I'd say, continue to buy what is not shit, and maybe we get our perfect game soon.

This. I'm against piracy... of good games. Diablo 3 - buy. Skyrim - buy. -_-

What would those people do? If you steal one game you probably have the morals to steal every game you can.

Except active pirates in the West spend nearly 2x more than non-pirates. Oh my.

 

[Draxanoth]

I think piracy is the result of the real problem to be honest. Game developers are cutting corners more and more. The ones that pump out good products sell well and don't complain. Not to mention I shouldn't have to turn to pirate cracks for malware free play and LAN support... btw someone needs to update the BF3 originless multiplayer already.

Even the ones that get pirated, the numbers they claim are dubious at best; just like everything else lobbyists do.

 

[Met-AL]

Piracy to see if a game works on your system is no longer needed with system reqs, game reviews, hardware comparisons like those found at [H], and threads discussing the game

That isn't as cut and dry as you make it seem. Often the game runs very miserably at the "system requirement" level. A demo is needed to see just exactly how it would run on your particular PC.

My example is Bad Company 2. The system requirements for the game are here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlefield:_Bad_Company_2#Development

At the time I was running a E8400, 8800GTS 320MB, and 4GB of RAM on Vista 64.

No demo was released and I was not about to spend $60 on the game when I couldn't play it and actually enjoy it. So, I found a copy on the IRC and tried it out. The game barely ran... 30FPS at times. I wanted it so bad, I still bought it. I bought 3 copies of it and Vietnam.

What is so hard about releasing a demo or tech demo or something? They are marketing tools. AvP had a tech demo/benchmark... I downloaded that and bought the game as a result.

BF3 had the beta but I wasn't concerned as I built a new rig that could play it no problem. I have clan members with borderline PC's that want the game real bad but can't afford to upgrade right now and can't afford to waste the money on the game if it doesn't play well on their PCs. A tech demo would be so helpful. It would probably seal the deal on a lot of purchases. But no, instead you have go to the darkside and deal with that.

 

[pothb]

Good games have nothing to do with stopping piracy. People pirate good games. And DRM is hardly harmful. Steam is practically one big DRM-fest, but it succeeds.

My opinion why? Because it's easier to obtain legally on Steam than it is to pirate it. It's a time vs money question.

Uh... quote never said anything about it stopping piracy. But since you brought it up, it seems to deter piracy, when a game's good and worth it. Even better when it's easily access, like Steam.

 

[Megalomaniac]

A lot of good points here in this *neverending thread*. I wonder if we are speaking of numbers, can we compare the yearly profits and revenue? Is there a graph of yearly profits and revenue from companies like Ubisoft for PC games? And how much has it grown from last year to this year. To be clear, I have no doubt that their profits have grown. The MPAA and RIA always complain about lost sales due to music piracy, but it is one of the few industries today that is shattering previous profit records. While at the same time, they waist more money on lawyers that do not bring in any profits. Explain that?

Ideally yes, piracy would not exist. More and more gamers buy games every year. But if some don't buy a game, it does not mean that it is a lost sale. I think everyone can agree on this.

The most laughable reason to pirate, it the " I can't afford to buy" excuse. If you took a part time job at McDonalds, you would be able to afford it in a couple of shifts. And the likes of McDonalds are always hiring, even in this economy.

This makes me laugh actually. You do realize that many of the pirates are in other countries, where to earn $60 you would have to work longer, they have second hand PCs. The "I can't afford it" that you mention only applies to *college* students in civilized countries. For the fun of it, start a download of any popular PC game and see how many people who are downloading it are from the US.

Console pirates are getting the full, online capable, drm free version of games before they are even released and no one ever seems to talk about that.

You still need a PC to pirate a console game When torrents come to consoles, then all hell could break loose. Torrent a game straight to your console HD and run the cracked version from there.

Prediction: it will be possible to do this (torrent straight to console) in the next generation of consoles, since consoles will be more and more like PCs.

 

[marylandman]

A lot of good points here in this *neverending thread*. I wonder if we are speaking of numbers, can we compare the yearly profits and revenue? Is there a graph of yearly profits and revenue from companies like Ubisoft for PC games? And how much has it grown from last year to this year. To be clear, I have no doubt that their profits have grown. The MPAA and RIA always complain about lost sales due to music piracy, but it is one of the few industries today that is shattering previous profit records. While at the same time, they waist more money on lawyers that do not bring in any profits. Explain that?

Ideally yes, piracy would not exist. More and more gamers buy games every year. But if some don't buy a game, it does not mean that it is a lost sale. I think everyone can agree on this.



This makes me laugh actually. You do realize that many of the pirates are in other countries, where to earn $60 you would have to work longer, they have second hand PCs. The "I can't afford it" that you mention only applies to *college* students in civilized countries. For the fun of it, start a download of any popular PC game and see how many people who are downloading it are from the US.



You still need a PC to pirate a console game When torrents come to consoles, then all hell could break loose. Torrent a game straight to your console HD and run the cracked version from there.

Prediction: it will be possible to do this (torrent straight to console) in the next generation of consoles, since consoles will be more and more like PCs.

That sell the game for $60.

 

[Plague_Injected]

That sell the game for $60.

Name 5 countries that sell the games for US$60.

I must say that I still don't buy the "I can't afford it" excuse. If I can't afford something I go without it. I don't "steal" it.

 

[Megalomaniac]

Name 5 countries that sell the games for US$60.

I must say that I still don't buy the "I can't afford it" excuse. If I can't afford something I go without it. I don't "steal" it.

That I agree with! But I don't think abstinence is quite what it used to be, unless you're amish..

 

[chockomonkey]

Bottom line is people are losing money because of selfish people. People are playing crappy console ports because of selfish people. People are playing lower quality games because of selfish people.

Usually broad statements aren't solid, but this one is right on.

As long as you know it's talking about the selfish motherfuckers running those companies as well as the selfish motherfuckers stealing their games.

 

[lilbabycat]

When these companies suffering from piracy stop having record profits every year, then I'll believe them.

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/92692/...rates-5th-consecutive-year-of-record-profits/

http://www.grabstats.com/statmain.asp?StatID=67

The video game industry is actually slightly declining in recent years though... Personally I think it is where the music industry was ~8 years ago... riddled with terrible choices for the consumer (draconian drm, rip-off DLC, incomplete or poor quality games, etc).

Piracy is not killing the industry in any way, shape, or form. If anything, quite the opposite. Piracy forced the music industry to expand to more than just super-groups, cashing in on album sales with 2-3 good tracks and the rest filler. More people are going to live shows. Artists are getting a MUCH BIGGER slice of the profits. While technology is the bigger reason for this, piracy sped the process by at least a decade.

 

[Gorankar]

This makes me laugh actually. You do realize that many of the pirates are in other countries, where to earn $60 you would have to work longer, they have second hand PCs. The "I can't afford it" that you mention only applies to *college* students in civilized countries. For the fun of it, start a download of any popular PC game and see how many people who are downloading it are from the US.

Inside the US it is a laughable excuse then. Outside the US it is nearly as laughable as well.
Let me remind you of an ancient and universal rule when it comes to luxury items, content, and services. It applies in every country that uses money.
"If one can not afford to pay for it, one does not get to indulge." Outside of that rule, obtaining that content, service, or item, is typically outside of the law, or involves an act of charity.

The "Can not afford" excuse, is every much as pitiful, as the "every torrented copy is a lost sale", and "copyright infringement = theft" mantras.

 

[EvilPokemon]

When torrents come to consoles, then all hell could break loose. Torrent a game straight to your console HD and run the cracked version from there.

Prediction: it will be possible to do this (torrent straight to console) in the next generation of consoles, since consoles will be more and more like PCs.

I think it's possible right now. Opera has a built in torrent client, and works on the Wii(though I don't own a Wii and don't know if that version has a built in client).

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

This is incorrect.

There are some rare CDs and bootlegs I had to pirate because they are not available anywhere. They were created in extremely limited quantities and will never be created again.

Tracking down the couple hundred owners in the whole world can be impossible for some of these. And perhaps none of the owners want to part with their copies.

Exactly who is losing the money by me pirating one of them if they aren't available to buy?

justifying your stealing does not make it right. again just in case you are having troubles does not give you an exception....stealing is NOT right. Just because YOU can't get it legally does not mean it cannot be had by legal means... Obviously YOU were unwilling to put in the proper amt of time and effort and money into obtaining it legally....

 

[Gorankar]

This is incorrect.

There are some rare CDs and bootlegs I had to pirate because they are not available anywhere. They were created in extremely limited quantities and will never be created again.

Tracking down the couple hundred owners in the whole world can be impossible for some of these. And perhaps none of the owners want to part with their copies.

Exactly who is losing the money by me pirating one of them if they aren't available to buy?

I don't know. Yes it is still wrong, or at least morally ambiguous imho, but if purchase is impossible because the company that made the product no longer exists, and there is no one that can legally sell you a copy, what do you do? Go without, or burn a copy is about your only choice. There is absolutely zero possibility of it being a lost sale at this point, and rather than being a question of possible financial harm, it becomes a question purely of law and morality.

Star Trek Klingon Honor Guard, is an example of abandonware. You can occasionally find a used copy floating around, but for all intents and purposes it is nearly impossible to get through legal means. The developer, Microprose went out of business shortly after releasing the game. If I were to burn a copy for a friend, whom would be harmed, or deprived of possible financial gain in a situation like that? To be honest though very little piracy is of the nature I just described. People are not pirating abandonware in droves, they tend to go after the newer titles.

I would, by the way, kill for KHG to be updated to the 226 version of the Unreal engine. Microprose went out without patching that game and it showed badly in the stability and glitch depts.

 

[fattypants]

Ooo my favorite party game!

Listening to songs without a license is "stealing".
Jaywalking is "rape".
Possession of a controlled substance is "assault with a deadly weapon".
Failure to stop at a stop sign is "arson".

What other minor crimes can we rename to different and more serious ones? Fun fun fun!

 

[Oldie]

READ THIS:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1656015

 

[Plague_Injected]

I'd like to know what effect - if any - Free Weekend deals on Steam have on piracy. Hosting them close to launch would probably deter the most pirates.

Could schemes like Free Weekends or some kind of trial period be a good substitute for demos, considering download speeds and quotas are improving?

 

[CryingGod]

I had this long post I was going to make in this thread but it wouldn't let me post it from the phone for some reason. I'll sum it up though:

Pirates have no excuse.
You are not entitled to anything.
If you can't afford to take a loss on buying a game you don't like maybe you should rethink your priorities. Gaming obviously is outside your budget.

 

[Tigerblade]

You are also making the asinine assumption that every pirated copy is a lost sale.

I do love this old chestnut, makes me chuckle.

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

READ THIS:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1656015

<deleted for the sake of my sanity & my apologies to all offended>

I am a moderator, that's why I left the warning. See your PM inbox if you still need proof. -Oldie

 

[eggrock]

LOL

I'm wondering if a limited rental period for PC games would be feasible.

As an example, I'd like to play through the BF3 campaign but have zero interest in multiplayer. There's no way in hell I'm paying full price for a short campaign and by the time the price drops to $10 or under I'll probably have no interest in playing. I *would* consider paying $10 for the SP campaign, or activating the game for a few days to give me time to beat it.

It's probably not a realistic idea since so many games can be beaten in a day.

 

[thee_rook]

I had this long post I was going to make in this thread but it wouldn't let me post it from the phone for some reason. I'll sum it up though:

Pirates have no excuse.
You are not entitled to anything.
If you can't afford to take a loss on buying a game you don't like maybe you should rethink your priorities. Gaming obviously is outside your budget.

Nailed it.

Modern day pirateer = shoplifter in 1985.

 

[LordCalin]

Just wanted to add a random thought in here...

have you guys noticed... that a lot of the time... it's the companies that make few but incredibly good games that say that Piracy isn't the problem, or at the very least DRM are more harmful than helpful?

Really? Blizzard? the leader in few but incredibly good games? they are going to always on DRM are they not?

 

[cloudkat]

Lets see here, go to any theater and watch the adds before the show. They are trying to get you to advertize on the screen, and the way they are trying to convince you to do so is by telling you about the record number of movie goers last year. So, if the movie industry broke records last year for attendance, just how bad do you honestly think they are effected by piracy?
The same for games. Look at last years number 1 pirated game, CoD; Black Ops. While it was the #1 pirated game, it ALSO broke entertainment records. Making more money than any movie, book or game ever has in history. So, do you think that piracy hurt them? Technically speaking, yes, I guess it did. But when a company makes that much profit, that much money, do you really think that YOU should care if they cry about the amount that was pirated?
BF3 sold 8 million copies so far,
Skyrim has also sold well into the millions,
MW3 has broken records AGAIN, for the 3rd year in a row !!!

It comes down to this;
If companies make a GOOD game, people will buy it. Yes, it will be pirated, but enough people will buy it that everyone will make a crap load of money.
You are NEVER going to stop pirating, never.
Just like you are never going to stop the people who make viruses, malware and spoof emails. And because of those people we have to run system slowing security programs. Just like pirates cause us to have to put up with restrictive DRM.
So why are you not jumping up and calling out those people that make Trojans and crap?

Point is this;
These companies make MORE than enough money when they put out a GOOD game, or at least do good marketing (MW3 was a crap game that had great marketing).
So do I feel sorry for them when they cry about their games getting pirated? Not in the least little bit. When I pay $60 for a game, and it turns out to be garbage (MW3), do they care enough about me to give me my money back? Then why should i care in the least when they get pirated?

 

[eurin]

Rage is the single reason why I will pirate games. Mr. Carmack had no problem pirating my wallet with his pile of shit of a game, so I have no remorse.

And I haven't downloaded a game in like 5 years.

You bought a game on hype, so that's Carmack's fault?

It's not hard at all to figure out what are goods games to buy without piracy.

 

[cloudkat]

Another thing to keep in mind;
To all those who say, or quote, the whole "the game was pirated 4 million times. And at $50 each that is 200 million that the game company lost"...this is total BS.

Leaving the fact aside that they have been proven to pad those numbers since there is no way they can truly accurately determine just how many time it was pirated, the whole idea that the game company lost that much money is insane.

Remember that there is the game developer, publisher, distributers, retail outlets, etc. that all add their own "bump" to the cost of a game so that they can make money as well. You can bet your life that no game developer on this planet is making $50 on every copy sold.

 

[cloudkat]

^ +1 exactly.

BTW. The game you were talking about is probably BF3 as i had a very similar experience.

 

[Gorankar]

Well, this one fell apart, pretty much along the same lines as the first thread.

It is a controversial subject, that is for sure.

 

[Drawmonster]

I know a guy who pirates. Makes a ton of money at his job. Ex-Military. Ex-Police Officer. Pirates 95% of his stuff. Games, movies, tv shows. If money isn't an issue, and he's a stand-up pillar of the community type guy, then why does he do it?

I think this video explains the "piracy" mindset for a lot of people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efHCdKb5UWc

 

[Ebisan]

I wonder what is the age range of a typical pirate. I admit I used to pirate games when I was in HS because I just couldn't afford it and it was easy to get. Friends would make copies for each other. Now being able to afford games, I haven't pirated a single PC game since the early 90s. And for those who pirate because they got burned on a crap game, just read/watch the reviews, or play the demo. That's just a lame excuse.

 

[nobody_here]

The Witcher 2 is estimated to have been pirated 4.5 million times. $50 a pop is $225,000,000.

Ghost Recon:Future Soldier is not coming to PC because "95% of its players will be pirating the game.

Ubisoft states that its seen in a reduction in piracy due to its DRM, but Kotaku notes that its probably seen a reduction in sales as well because of the DRM

I am Alive devs say that the "hypothetical 50,000 sales" they will get is not worth the effort of porting to PC when everyone else will pirate it. $50 a pop is $2,500,000.

STALKER 2 will require an always-online DRM model to fight piracy

France has fined pirates €4.8 million for damages to Nintendo

Piracy bust catches 700,000 games. $50 a pop is $35,000,000.

I tire of searching Kotaku, but the costs are publicized often, and they are significant. Like I said, you are going after an irrelevant tangent, and one that is easily noticed with some searching or Googling. There is overwhelming evidence that that companies suffer huge losses. I only cited incredibly recent cases. I'm sure if you went through the entire last year, the numbers would be staggering.

the problem with most of these numbers is those people would not have purchased those games anyways, the only way they were going to get it was illegal from the word go, so those "unrealized profit loss" numbers are not really losses

 

[Drawmonster]

And for those who pirate because they got burned on a crap game, just read/watch the reviews, or play the demo. That's just a lame excuse.

The amount of "non-paid" reviews these days are pretty small. And some people's tastes might make it difficult to find a game they would like based on another person's review. I, for example, only played Skyrim for about 10 minutes and got bored/pissed and haven't played since.

 

[Oldie]

This thread has become too much work for the moderators. Sorry to those of you who were having a good discussion.