Picard Will Lead "Radically Altered" Life in New Star Trek Series

Axman said:
Enterprise probably has the highest ratio of good episodes to bad episodes of any series and it's short even if you start over at season 1.

The intro music killed it before it got started.
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Disagree x100.
 
M76 said:
Actually Enterprise produced quite a few great episodes, ones that were very close to the original idea of Star Trek, and of course a lot of terrible ones as well. But we'd be lying if we said TOS or TNG didn't have bad episodes. Hell the entire first season of DS9 was pretty terrible imho.
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First Season of DS9, as I recall, wasn't as bad as the first 2 seasons of TNG and by S3, DS9 was better than TNG was at that point (S7 as I recall), though S7 had it's moments and All Good Things was a great ep (and IMO the best final ep in Trek).
And as bad as S1 could be, nothing was as bad as S2 (though I guess you give them a parital pass, since I think there was a writers strike).
 
Axman said:
Enterprise probably has the highest ratio of good episodes to bad episodes of any series and it's short even if you start over at season 1.

The intro music killed it before it got started.
Click to expand...
I'd give that to DS9. S1 is a bit sketchy, but S2 was much better and after S2, most eps were good to great. It's the one Trek I'd pay big bucks for to get in HD (or better still 4K). I thought about TNG, but I just decided I didn't care enough to buy it again. You'd have to pay me to watch Voyager again.
 
nilepez said:
First Season of DS9, as I recall, wasn't as bad as the first 2 seasons of TNG and by S3, DS9 was better than TNG was at that point (S7 as I recall), though S7 had it's moments and All Good Things was a great ep (and IMO the best final ep in Trek).
And as bad as S1 could be, nothing was as bad as S2 (though I guess you give them a parital pass, since I think there was a writers strike).
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I think there were good episodes regularly in TNG S1, and S2. But DS9 was on a consistent bad streak until the very end of S1, I had to start it over 3 times before I was able to make it trough the first season.

TNG started with one of its worst episodes but the rest of S1 was not consistently bad.
 
M76 said:
I think there were good episodes regularly in TNG S1, and S2. But DS9 was on a consistent bad streak until the very end of S1, I had to start it over 3 times before I was able to make it trough the first season.

TNG started with one of its worst episodes but the rest of S1 was not consistently bad.
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I'll take your word for it. I don't remember DS9 S1 being that bad (but it definitely was the weakest season), but when I rewatched TNG, I distinctly rmeember S1 being much weaker than I thought the first go round and S2 had me cringing at times....then S3 came and they were off to the races.

DS9 I felt like every season topped the prior seasons. And my recollection is that the first few seasons had bits that played into the main story arc (though we didn't know that when they first aired). My gut says that it took them becoming the red headed stepchild of Trek for Behr and Moore to have the freedom to take the show to it's full potential.
 
M76 said:
I think there were good episodes regularly in TNG S1, and S2. But DS9 was on a consistent bad streak until the very end of S1, I had to start it over 3 times before I was able to make it trough the first season.

TNG started with one of its worst episodes but the rest of S1 was not consistently bad.
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just got through s2 of ds9. it was hard but im hoping for great things.
 
M76 said:
TNG started with one of its worst episodes but the rest of S1 was not consistently bad.
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I suspect you haven't re-watched TNG S1 in a while. Over half the season is bad. Spock's Brain caliber bad. All of the writing staff quit (save for Rick Berman) bad. Most racist episode in ST history bad. Two cast members fled/fired (Gates McFadden and Denise Crosby) bad. Even the Shat made a documentary of how bad TNG's first two seasons were bad.

nilepez said:
I'll take your word for it. I don't remember DS9 S1 being that bad (but it definitely was the weakest season), but when I rewatched TNG, I distinctly rmeember S1 being much weaker than I thought the first go round and S2 had me cringing at times....then S3 came and they were off to the races.
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It's a miracle that we got a S3 considering how bad S1 & 2 were. And a grand miracle that S3 was so good. Michael Piller doesn't get enough credit for literally saving the franchise.
 
Saturn_V said:
I suspect you haven't re-watched TNG S1 in a while. Over half the season is bad. Spock's Brain caliber bad. All of the writing staff quit (save for Rick Berman) bad. Most racist episode in ST history bad. Two cast members fled/fired (Gates McFadden and Denise Crosby) bad. Even the Shat made a documentary of how bad TNG's first two seasons were bad.



It's a miracle that we got a S3 considering how bad S1 & 2 were. And a grand miracle that S3 was so good. Michael Piller doesn't get enough credit for literally saving the franchise.
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I second that. It's not even a contest. I have watched both series a few times, including both in the last two years.

Some Characters (Wesley, Troi) on TNG were so cringe worthy, and that lasted the whole run. Good episodes sidelined the worse characters, because they pretty much always sucked.

TNG is largely carried on the back of Picard. Where DS9 has 10+ characters that were better than the second best character of TNG.
 
Snowdog said:
TNG is largely carried on the back of Picard. Where DS9 has 10+ characters that were better than the second best character of TNG.
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This poignant point resonates well with me. I'd perhaps put Brent Spinner's Data up there, but that character -- the non-human trying to understand humanity character -- has been my favorite or top favorite on each Trek show. Be it Spock, T'Pol, Seven of Nine, and to a lesser extent Odo, and Michael Burnham and Saru, for some reason these characters are the ones I enjoy following the most.

Perhaps it's a bit funny that on DS9, my favorite character isn't Odo, but Garek -- a character archetype that you don't see repeated as much in Star Trek.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
This poignant point resonates well with me. I'd perhaps put Brent Spinner's Data up there, but that character -- the non-human trying to understand humanity character -- has been my favorite or top favorite on each Trek show. Be it Spock, T'Pol, Seven of Nine, and to a lesser extent Odo, and Michael Burnham and Saru, for some reason these characters are the ones I enjoy following the most.

Perhaps it's a bit funny that on DS9, my favorite character isn't Odo, but Garek -- a character archetype that you don't see repeated as much in Star Trek.
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"Plain, simple Garak."

I tend to agree regarding the non-human characters that are trying to understand or emulate humanity. They are the heart of Star Trek, in my opinion. By asking thought-provoking questions, or making us debate philosophical issues, like, "Why are we here? What makes something 'alive'?" they let the viewer explore these abstract concepts without the constraints of human baggage.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
This poignant point resonates well with me. I'd perhaps put Brent Spinner's Data up there, but that character -- the non-human trying to understand humanity character -- has been my favorite or top favorite on each Trek show. Be it Spock, T'Pol, Seven of Nine, and to a lesser extent Odo, and Michael Burnham and Saru, for some reason these characters are the ones I enjoy following the most.

Perhaps it's a bit funny that on DS9, my favorite character isn't Odo, but Garek -- a character archetype that you don't see repeated as much in Star Trek.
Click to expand...

I really liked Data initially, but on later re-watches, he gets more irritating to me. Though he is good fodder for episodes making a point, like "The Measure of a Man".
 
At first when I read that Picard would lead a "radically altered" life, I immediately assumed he would be playing the first transexual space captain.

I was wrong.
 
Saturn_V said:
I suspect you haven't re-watched TNG S1 in a while. Over half the season is bad. Spock's Brain caliber bad. All of the writing staff quit (save for Rick Berman) bad. Most racist episode in ST history bad. Two cast members fled/fired (Gates McFadden and Denise Crosby) bad. Even the Shat made a documentary of how bad TNG's first two seasons were bad.
It's a miracle that we got a S3 considering how bad S1 & 2 were. And a grand miracle that S3 was so good. Michael Piller doesn't get enough credit for literally saving the franchise.
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I think you have to remember just how starved many were for new Trek. And although it may look dated now (I haven't seen the HD versions), at the time, the SFX were some of the best on TV and certainly the best for a syndicated program. As I said, I didn't remember S1 and S2 being bad. It was only when I bought the DVDs, ~20 years ago, that I realized it. People love to bag on Discovery, but the first season was probably the best first season for any trek series (unless TOS was really good...I only saw it in syndication, so I don't know that i ever saw it in order and i certainly didn't know when one season ended and hte next began...plus I haven't seen it in at least 30 years).
 
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IdiotInCharge said:
This poignant point resonates well with me. I'd perhaps put Brent Spinner's Data up there, but that character -- the non-human trying to understand humanity character -- has been my favorite or top favorite on each Trek show. Be it Spock, T'Pol, Seven of Nine, and to a lesser extent Odo, and Michael Burnham and Saru, for some reason these characters are the ones I enjoy following the most.

Perhaps it's a bit funny that on DS9, my favorite character isn't Odo, but Garek -- a character archetype that you don't see repeated as much in Star Trek.
Click to expand...
What made Garek so good is that it was always hard to tell if he was good or bad. In some ways Quark could be like that (mostly in early seasons, as I recall), but not as much as Garek. But to go back to what you or snowdog said, there were so many good characters. And that comes down to the writers. The fact is that O'Brien and Worf were better characters on DS9 than they were on TNG. And virtually every character was more nuanced and realistic than those on TNG. They were less perfect. Most weren't always good, but neither were the bad guys always bad.

Damn I want this in HD...This discussion makes me really want to watch the entire thing again (even S1/S2, though maybe I'll change my mind if I get a chance to buy the series again).
 
nilepez said:
What made Garek so good is that it was always hard to tell if he was good or bad.
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He lived up to our expectations: he was good, but he was also dedicated to his home and was willing to move mountains for Cardassia. With the rest of his character, this made him both mysterious and dangerous, and more importantly, authentic.

nilepez said:
Damn I want this in HD...This discussion makes me really want to watch the entire thing again (even S1/S2, though maybe I'll change my mind if I get a chance to buy the series again).
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Same!
 
nilepez said:
I think you have to remember just how starved many were for new Trek. And although it may look dated now (I haven't seen the HD versions), at the time, the SFX were some of the best on TV and certainly the best for a syndicated program.
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You should really watch TNG now. The 2012 remaster was very special. The show was recompiled using the original camera negatives and the whole schmeel was recomposited from scratch. No CGI replacements (for the most part) If there was a Kickstarter to remaster DS9/VOY using the same method- Shut Up and Take My Money. (and I don't even like VOY)
I'm not saying buy the new BluRays. But TNG remastered is on every subscription streaming service (for now)
But "being starved" makes us overlook lapses in quality. At 11, I though Battlestar Galactica was the greatest thing on TV since Black Sheep Squadron. At 31, I felt that Babylon 5 was freakin' brilliant. I can barely watch either now, and I'm far less charitable in my 50s when it comes to new genre tv. (but The Expanse is still freakin' sweet)
nilepez said:
People love to bag on Discovery, but the first season was probably the best first season for any trek series
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,

I had a very neutral reaction to Discovery. Yes, very feature-filmy, pricey production values, etc, etc, etc. But it wasn't different enough from Enterprise and Voyager to make me sit up and watch.
 
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