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- Dec 2, 2004
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It's a newer phenomenon. He isn't alone in seeing it.If you go looking for politics in everything you will find it.
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It's a newer phenomenon. He isn't alone in seeing it.If you go looking for politics in everything you will find it.
LOL. I normally agree with your posts but this is just nuts.Anti-Trump isn't necessarily a pro democrat/left position.
It's a pro human one.
LOL. I normally agree with your posts but this is just nuts.
I'm not talking about political opinion, but political propaganda. It's like the opposite of a free opinion, you could discuss. It is like the official propaganda in Soviet Union. There is no discussion and even discussing it becomes suspicious.Sounds like a Jandor problem. Virtually all art is political. I guess you also hated First Blood (as well as the cartoon like sequels), because they were all political...or was it OK, because it jibes with your politics? Surely you hated Star Trek TOS, because it was certainly political or is it OK if it comes from your youth before you were political?
Movies have always been political.
Mind that I separated both opinions in my post, but usually find both opinions in the same TV show. Actually Trump is the best anti-democrat of today, not really republican in all the ways it used to be.You can be a republican and not like Trump, just like being a democrat and not liking Obama. People can having their own opinions that aren't formed by the media...
Hope this show isn't too "woke". That is a cancer appearing in many shows/movies/games lately that needs to stop as it jarringly pulls the viewer out of any sense of realism.
I don't mind nuanced social commentary that doesn't throw conclusions at the viewer. I agree that heavy-handedness would be inappropriate, but it should also be noted that Star Trek has traditionally been a bit progressive, just not in a Portland-Antifa-attacking-your-car way.
Oh I'm aware of the progressiveness of trek, but MOST of the episodes in all the series up to Enterprise were subtle and more thought provoking rather than "LOOK AT ME! THINK LIKE ME! AREN'T I AWESOME? DON'T YOU DARE THINK FOR YOURSELF" that a lot of shows, movies, etc. are starting to show.
TNG post Roddenberry and DS9 are the only Trek series you can really call subtle and even then they could get pretty in your face about things. TOS and Voyager were anything but subtle.
Oh I'm aware of the progressiveness of trek, but MOST of the episodes in all the series up to Enterprise were subtle and more thought provoking rather than "LOOK AT ME! THINK LIKE ME! AREN'T I AWESOME? DON'T YOU DARE THINK FOR YOURSELF" that a lot of shows, movies, etc. are starting to show.
Discovery doesn't follow or adhere to star trek ideals, that's what makes it bad. The "progressiveness" is just adding insult to injury.I think Discovery was perhaps a bit more forced, but I do mean only a bit. I read quite a few opinions before watching each episode and found quite honestly that while the "offensive" content was there, it wasn't so much in ones' face as it was perhaps less necessary / less supported narrative direction.
I can't say that I had any real objection to the content, though, except where the narrative was weaker.
It's not about being subtle / in your face. It's about being reasoned. TNG always explained its reasons trough monologue and back and forth between characters. Discovery just presents things to you which you should accept without question and reason. TNG opened dialogues. Discovery(modern progressivism) wants to end all dialogue.TNG post Roddenberry and DS9 are the only Trek series you can really call subtle and even then they could get pretty in your face about things. TOS and Voyager were anything but subtle.
I have to agree with your take on things. Discovery felt forced, almost artificially so at times. I never found myself offended by any of the content. It all just felt like it was jammed in there, rather than even shoehorned in with some smooth flowing narrative. Which brings me to the other point you make, the narrative direction was pretty bad. Visually, the show had the feel of the JJ Verse which meant it was a sight to behold with some damn fine CG.I think Discovery was perhaps a bit more forced, but I do mean only a bit. I read quite a few opinions before watching each episode and found quite honestly that while the "offensive" content was there, it wasn't so much in ones' face as it was perhaps less necessary / less supported narrative direction.
I can't say that I had any real objection to the content, though, except where the narrative was weaker.
Me either yet it was done. TOS s3, ep 20 - The Way to Eden. Which I suspect you were referring to.Star Trek: Space Hippies is not something I have any desire to see.
Me either yet it was done. TOS s3, ep 20 - The Way to Eden. Which I suspect you were referring to.
But yeah. The so called progressive ideals did seem a lot more forced in Discovery.
Me either yet it was done. TOS s3, ep 20 - The Way to Eden. Which I suspect you were referring to.
But yeah. The so called progressive ideals did seem a lot more forced in Discovery.
I actually borrowed the imagery out of a desire to emphasize the space hippiesthan to cite the actual content of that, specific, episode.
The big problem I have with most of these franchises is that they are forcing in the stuff. One would "logically" expect this stuff to be widely accepted in these timelines. Thus any specific call-outs these shows do is, really, somewhat jarring. The only reason to call it out in the open is to push agendas of today, it has nothing to do with a society hundreds of years more advanced... Just makes the shows seem even more dated. I always thought that Star Wars and Star Trek had meant something to damn near everyone that was a fan of them regardless of race, color, creed or sexual preference. They were open for interpretation. Society today will not allow that notion.
There was a certain beauty in shows not having a lot of sexualized content in them. Nowadays, damn near everything has to throw it in your face. Honestly, it's one of those things I think BSG would have done well with obscuring and sticking to good story rather than the several Cylon sex orgies, the starbuck screw fest and fat Apollo cheating on his wife...
A good story will be able to stand apart from all the sexual references and still be a good story. I am all fine an good with a nice steamy sex story for film. Just don't really think it even needs to be in your face present in Science Fiction much. Some shows do it right, others just push it all kinds of wrong (The Expanse did it rather well).
If something is widely accepted then mentioning it is not pushing the boundaries.Something being widely accepted doesn't mean that issues don't still exist or that there aren't ways to explore those topics.
Um... There has always been combat in Star Trek. There will always be those who are fast to fight, Starfleet ships are armed and their people are trained in advanced combat forms for a reason. To be ready to fight when necessary and to defend the weak. The entire principle behind Starfleet may be a benevolent one, but they are by no means pussies.
I think I was overly compressing the issues. Your presentation and rationale are much more eloquent than mineTwo things, yes there has always and should always be CONFLICT in Star Trek, but it should not be an action franchise and recent history has shown that.
There is a huge difference between the focus being action, combat and conflict (STD), as opposed to exploration, conflict resolution, and expansion of what it means to exist. Traditional Star Trek the focus was never Combat, it could happen in any episode, it might not, there was always conflict of some kind or kinds that had to be resolved by the cast being the crew and ship (and if you pay attention to Star Trek the ship is part of the cast).
Star Trek begun to lose itself in the milieu of action franchises when they shifted, started with the final TNG movie, then Enterprise, and was taken to 11 with the JJ verse. It lost its core sense of exploration and wonder and replaced it with 'pew pew pew' and frankly Star Wars does everything pew better.
They need to return to their roots, and those roots aren't space hippies (not sure why you think that).
Actually Enterprise produced quite a few great episodes, ones that were very close to the original idea of Star Trek, and of course a lot of terrible ones as well. But we'd be lying if we said TOS or TNG didn't have bad episodes. Hell the entire first season of DS9 was pretty terrible imho.Star Trek begun to lose itself in the milieu of action franchises when they shifted, started with the final TNG movie, then Enterprise, and was taken to 11 with the JJ verse. It lost its core sense of exploration and wonder and replaced it with 'pew pew pew' and frankly Star Wars does everything pew better.
Actually Enterprise produced quite a few great episodes, ones that were very close to the original idea of Star Trek, and of course a lot of terrible ones as well. But we'd be lying if we said TOS or TNG didn't have bad episodes. Hell the entire first season of DS9 was pretty terrible imho.
enterprise was by and large garbage until the last season and a half
Why do they keep changing the Klingons?
They don’t seem to change anything else.
I think they're still accounting for the change in look between TOS and TNG...
Maybe, I think it’s more a cause of the std... they basically explain it in one of the better arcs of Enterprise.
From what I read long afterwards, they found out they were getting canceled after season 3 started, so they looked at a couple of season's worth of stories they had and tried to pack the last season with all the best episodes from the lot.
I personally mostly liked season 3.
I didn't make it through season 1. Bacula trying to look like he's having a deep thought mostly resulted in him looking constipated. I didn't hate the engineer guy, but now I don't remember anyone else except the Vulcan lady they'd strip down for ratings periodically.
Rick is right, 3 turned a corner and started to get much better, then 4 was ok, kinda rushed because they where ending.
Is it worth watching in isolation do you think?
Bacula trying to look like he's having a deep thought mostly resulted in him looking constipated.