PhysX in Borderlands 2

bAMtan2

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560 ti paired with various other cards as dedicated physx cards: http://smurl.me/?K9

even using the worst physx card doesn't affect fps drastically there in arkham city, so until someone actually goes out and benchmarks a bunch of physx cards in borderlands 2, I think it is safe to say that crappy cards will work okay.

the 550 ti which performs so "fine" in that benchmark is a GF116, brother or father to GT 640. so until someone actually shows us some numbers, I don't buy the idea that these low end cards are bad as physx cards.
 

ashmelev75

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Tried hybrid Physx with Radeon 6950 (unlocked shaders) + GT430 with 1.05ff patch. It works, but but on high detail level turns the game into a slide show in 1920x1200 with default settings.
 

Rizen

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I am playing the game at 2560x1440, all settings on High/Very High, FXAA on, with GTX 680 SLI and I still get dips into the 40s on the frame rate (minimum) periodically during heavy fights. Game is much more demanding than I expected, but I suspect we'll see some SLI and driver optimization.
 

Alpert

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Tried hybrid Physx with Radeon 6950 (unlocked shaders) + GT430 with 1.05ff patch. It works, but but on high detail level turns the game into a slide show in 1920x1200 with default settings.

I had similar results the game plays well yet Afterburner showed 0% GPU load on the GT430. This makes me think its running from the CPU? I'm actually quite confused on the issue right now.

Why?

One futile attempt makes me more confused. I copied some three PhysX*.dll files from a Alice install over the Borderlands install, and for a moment before it crashed Afterburner showed Load on the GT 430 memory some like 500mb, "App error from Physxcore.DLL" that it.

:confused:
 

Wildace

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i tried using my 8800 for physx while the 670 did everything else and i got less fps as i expected but i have yet to see how it might change things while im streaming. i know dxtory uses some gpu power for capture and i already get less fps while streaming than i do with the 8800 doing physx and not streaming so im going to check in a little bit if the frame rate improves using the 8800 for physx while streaming since the 670 has the slight added load from dxtory.
 

ashmelev75

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One futile attempt makes me more confused. I copied some three PhysX*.dll files from a Alice install over the Borderlands install, and for a moment before it crashed Afterburner showed Load on the GT 430 memory some like 500mb, "App error from Physxcore.DLL" that it.

I think you only need to delete/rename PhysxDevice.dll.
I'll check again when I get back home.
 

mr_zen256

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BL2 just unlocked for me this morning (bloody international delays), and I got up early to uncompress and configure all the graphic options. I was pleasantly surprised at the performance I am getting on a single 680GTX @ 2560x1600 with all settings maxed.

Admittedly I only played for 15-20mins, up until the first boss but everything is smooth as butter even with PhysX on high, FXAA and SSAO enabled.

Of course, I do understand that during the more intense and PhysX heavy battles I will likely see a performance hit and might have to do some extra tweaking to get it running just right.

Great start though, seems like a really well optimized game and lookin' forward to getting home to blow some s**t up :)
 

Alpert

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I think you only need to delete/rename PhysxDevice.dll.
I'll check again when I get back home.

Maybe the way I write is hard to understand what I was saying. I get solid 60FPS with high PhysX, but Afterburner and GPU-Z show 0% GPU utilization. (maybe a bug or maybe not)

because

All other games that support PhysX effects shows GPU utilization with monitoring software.

As far as I'm concerned Borderlands PhysX effects are currently running from the CPU and damn good at that.

Not a one person can show screenshots/video to prove otherwise.

Back at it I guess, great game!

Edit: After playing into the game I found my FPS would tank during intense battles (20ish FPS". Fishy.

So,

I took my GT430 out of the equation (removed it from my PC) and same performance, definitely CPU. Hybrid PhysX never did work for borderlands 2 and I challenge anyone otherwise!

If GPU-Z shows no load. Then no load exists, period!
 
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DWolvin

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I am able to toggle Physx to medium (will try high tonight) with a single 7970. No mods at all!
 

ashmelev75

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Maybe the way I write is hard to understand what I was saying. I get solid 60FPS with high PhysX, but Afterburner and GPU-Z show 0% GPU utilization. (maybe a bug or maybe not)

Okay, here's all the steps I've done:

1) Install the latest WHQL driver and the latest PhysX software 9.12.013
2) Run Hybridiz.exe patch as admin.
3) move the following files to a different folder
cudart.dll
cudart32_30_9.dll
cudart32_41_22.dll
PhysXCooking.dll
PhysXCore.dll
PhysXDevice.dll
PhysXLoader.dll
4) edit C:\Document and Settings\user\Documents\My Games\Borderlands 2\WillowGame\Config\WillowEngine.ini and add bDisablePhysXHardwareSupport=False to [SystemSettings] section

after that PhysX actually works and GPU load on nvidia card goes to ~18%.
 

Alpert

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@ashmelev75

Hybridized!

Thanks now its working. I wasn't using the new patch :eek:

I feel like the last person on the internet to find this out.
 

Alpert

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So now it's running great

Max Settings at 1080P 35 FPS - 60 FPS vsync on :cool:

min 35 FPS in intense gunfight, and wow the effect is allot smoother now, very playable.

Much more then before, running in the low 20's

:D
 

jamesrb

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Yeah, I did the same but I didn't get rid of cudart.dll (I don't think this file is in the main PhysX install, so was afraid it might be needed) and I didn't change the ini file.

Works fine and shows load in GPU-Z. That 1.05ff needs to die. It doesn't work with newer PhysX versions and drivers.

With the 6970 and GTS 450 combo, framerate bounces between 30 and 100 depending on the area. If it is anything like most other games, the 2 threaded performance of my Phenom II is the bottleneck.
 

tpctcn

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Playing with 460m SLI in 1080. Everything maxed out except physx is at medium. Framerate dips into 30 in some major fights. Most of the times it's over 50.
 
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ashmelev75,

where are these PhysX files located that you need to move to a new folder and where should this folder be placed?

I have been messing with this for a good twenty minutes and still no go.
 

ashmelev75

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ashmelev75,
where are these PhysX files located that you need to move to a new folder and where should this folder be placed?
I have been messing with this for a good twenty minutes and still no go.

Just create any folder under
X:\Steam\steamapps\common\Borderlands 2\Binaries\Win32
and move them there.
 

Pandakun72

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I used "Hybridiz.exe" awhile back and moved "PhysxDevice.dll" to a new folder in Borderlands2... Works Fine... Everything on High at 1080p gets me 35-90 fps with my HD7850 and GT640... Fraps shows the framerate jumping around abit, guessing it's the weather effects... That seems to be about the same as others get...
 

Parja

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I am able to toggle Physx to medium (will try high tonight) with a single 7970. No mods at all!

High probably won't work too well. With no NVIDIA card, it runs the PhysX effects off the CPU.
 

Wolf-R1

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I actually turned PhysX to medium on my machine. I found the high setting to be a ridiculous amount of particles for no real reason. Medium seems to still be a lot but tolerable.
 

DWolvin

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Yea- I didn't realise that I'm just running CPU. My bad. The easy way to tell it PhysX is on (for the person last page) is to jump on an awning, it it rips, PhysX is working (off = rigid). I didn't try high PhysX because medium is borderline to much gratuitous particles. And the portapotties are nasty. ;)
 

Jinx01

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I'm getting "decent" performance running on CPU. It seems to be better optimized than other games; I have a Phenom II x6 1090T. Borderlands 2 really only uses 1-2 cores, but with PhysX on (medium) the other 4 cores all get moderate usage ~50%. I'm guessing you'd need at least a quad-core to run cpu physx decently.

The framerate drops in intense gun battles to 25-30 (otherwise 50+), but it's still playable. I am trying to find .ini tweaks to reduce the particle count or otherwise improve performance (I'll post if I have any luck). Honestly, the amount of debris that piles up is so excessive it looks kind of stupid, I'd want to turn it down anyway. But now that I've played with PhysX on, I don't want to give up the other particle effects for fire, sparks, flying debris etc. because it makes gunfights really intense.

Hmm, the other option might be to tweak in OTHER areas, thus improving performance to compensate for the PhysX hit...

Anyway, my specs:
Phenom II x6 1090T 3.2ghz
HD6870 1GB
8GB DDR3
Win7 64-bit
1920x1200 PhysX Medium AF 8x Other settings maxed


Also, I was having framerate issues initially and found altering mindesiredframerate fixed them:

Go to My Documents and open the engine config file (back it up first!):
C:\Users\*username*\Documents\My Games\Borderlands 2\WillowGame\Config\WillowEngine.ini

Search for
MinDesiredFrameRate=35.000000
change it to
MinDesiredFrameRate=60.000000
 

davidduc

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Guys, I can get the following cards for the same price to run as a dedicated PhysX card and it's been hard to make a decision here, so which one would you get ? (power consumption is not a problem for me, pure performance desired :p)

8800GT 256 bit DDR3 512MB - this one has most CUDA cores but a little bit old
GT 240 128 bit DDR3 512MB - heard someone says that GT200 architecture is not good for PhysX
GT 430 64 bit DDR3 1GB - this one seems to be the best GPU for physx but it came with only 64 bit memory

Currently running 1*GTX 480 with i5 2500k for gaming rig.
 

ashmelev75

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I've got GT430 for like 55 bucks on Amazon. The most GPU load i've seen was about 35%, so I'd say it is more than sufficient for Borderlands 2.
 

cannondale06

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I've got GT430 for like 55 bucks on Amazon. The most GPU load i've seen was about 35%, so I'd say it is more than sufficient for Borderlands 2.
no because he has a gtx480 for his main card. a gt430 will be little faster than just letting the gtx480 do both graphics and physx.

davidduc, none of those cards are really good choices while using a gtx480. you need a gts450 for it too be worthwhile IMO and something like a gtx460 would give you the best physx experience for your situation. personally I would not even bother with dedicated card. heck i am running the game just fine with high settings and high physx with just a gtx560 se.
 
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baldrik

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I put in my old 8800GTS 640 and did the hybrid physx patch...let's just say that was sub-optimal. I went from 62-55 fps in large fights to 22-20. Medium or high, it didn't matter. I think I got better performance running it off the cpu.
 

Pandakun72

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Here is a site that benchmarks for Physx in Borderlands 2 with many GPU's... It's in Russian but most browsers can translate... The charts are all easy enough to read... According to the info on this page my HD7850 / GT640 combo is about Equal to a GTX670 or GTX680... That is at 1080p all settings High and PhysX on High...

Hope this site is helpful to you guys...
http://gamegpu.ru/action-/-fps-/-tps/borderlands-2-test-gpu.html

And one from TechSpot...
http://www.techspot.com/review/577-borderlands-2-performance/page5.html
 
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davidduc

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Playing Borderlands 2 with everything maxed out@1080p, so far I have reached level 3, playtime ~ 30 mins. FPS around 50-80, mostly 6x, min FPS have never gone below 4x in heavy firefight. PhysX High with a single 480, this game is not as heavy as I thought :p
 

Jinx01

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I just had to give up on CPU PhysX. I was doing okay until I got to an area that had a bunch of water physics. Instead of the occasional 20-30fps slowdowns it crawled down to 10-15fps with massive lag at all times. Screw Nvidia and their proprietary tech :(
 
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I have a GTX 480 that runs the game ok. However I was curious at how it would perform if I installed a gts 250 as a dedicated phys x card and in bloodshot stronghold where the intense firefights began my framerate actually suffered with it. Like the gpu usage on the 250 would shoot to 72% and my main card would go down to like 20% and fps was overall 30 compared to 50+ without the dedicated card to begin with. I just found it odd since the gts 250 was considered decent for phys x.
 

AMD T-type

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I put in my old 8800GTS 640 and did the hybrid physx patch...let's just say that was sub-optimal. I went from 62-55 fps in large fights to 22-20. Medium or high, it didn't matter. I think I got better performance running it off the cpu.

Same, the 8800GT i have in mine doesnt really seem to do much at all, in fact it makes my framerate far worse, very similar to yours
 

bAMtan2

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I have a GTX 480 that runs the game ok. However I was curious at how it would perform if I installed a gts 250 as a dedicated phys x card and in bloodshot stronghold where the intense firefights began my framerate actually suffered with it. Like the gpu usage on the 250 would shoot to 72% and my main card would go down to like 20% and fps was overall 30 compared to 50+ without the dedicated card to begin with. I just found it odd since the gts 250 was considered decent for phys x.

no one is doing the work to find out, but borderlands 2 could be the most compute-intense physx game yet. since the math isn't getting any easier, it means a card that worked before might not work now. physics is real math and it could easily take a modern $200 card to do it!

the problem for this subforum is nobody smart enough to get the methodology right cares enough about borderlands 2 or physx to do the testing to characterize all this behavior.
 

nakedhand

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no one is doing the work to find out, but borderlands 2 could be the most compute-intense physx game yet. since the math isn't getting any easier, it means a card that worked before might not work now. physics is real math and it could easily take a modern $200 card to do it!

the problem for this subforum is nobody smart enough to get the methodology right cares enough about borderlands 2 or physx to do the testing to characterize all this behavior.

One of my friends is a lead programmer in charge of all the physics on the next Hitman game, maybe I should ask him to break down Borderlands 2. What should I ask him?
 

bAMtan2

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you could ask what measurement of GPU power does physx depend on, and how can you measure how much of it a game needs. could you say "this game benchmark peaked at this much processing power on a high end physx card, and here is a list of all cards and their peak processing power"?
 

Relativist

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What I'm curious about is if the gameplay with max physx compelling? How about in surround?
 

Kahnvex

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When I was messing around with resolutions and physx settings to find the right mix of performance and accurately moving toilet sludge, having physx on 'High' makes so many particles during firefights that it was a bit much.

Prime example was the Big Bertha fight with all the grenades and explosions.

I've settled for a resolution of 1920x1200, PhysX on Medium, and a frame rate of 30-50 with occasional dips to the 20's in areas with a lot of draw distance.
 

BiH115

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you could ask what measurement of GPU power does physx depend on, and how can you measure how much of it a game needs. could you say "this game benchmark peaked at this much processing power on a high end physx card, and here is a list of all cards and their peak processing power"?

I've worked on Physics engines, have done quite a few projects doing some heavy programming with all aspects of it, and I can say that it's all relative. Take Borderlands 2 for instance: the GPU isn't a mandatory piece of hardware required to comfortably run the game with PhysX settings on, but you can't help to argue that it does indeed help, though not as much as you'd think. There was an article a while back discussing CPU vs. GPU effects with the Batman games, and much further back, the Ageia Physics. While we're in a more modern version of PhysX, it's a moot point, as PhysX is meant to take advantage of Nvidias Cuda. If I had to throw a number at it, I'd say that 70-80% of the GPU is rendering the PhysX, while the rest is a mish-mash of the CPU kicking in. The CPU is more than capable of running PhysX at very adequate performance ranges, however there's that whole story about Nvidia purposefully killing CPU PhysX performance in order for their marketing campaign to buy more Nvidia cards strictly to enjoy PhysX to prosper.


EDIT: Speak of the devil, here's something that puts it into more perspective, and proves my point: http://physxinfo.com/news/9425/borderlands-2-is-cpu-capable-of-handling-the-physx-effects/
 

pj-schmidt

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Here's my experience so far.

I play with a GTX 660Ti for my main card and a GTX460 dedicated to PhysX. I have a multi-monitor set-up, but only game on the center screen at 1080p. I keep GPU-Z open right next to my gaming screen so I can watch the load meter for the physX gpu. I have everything maxed and physX set to high.

In most areas that I have played so far (I'm about three hours in), there is 5-15% load on the 460. The most load I have ever seen has been about 50% load during an intense fight in an area that had water simulations. We'll see if that changes as I get further into the game.

A GTX 460 has 336 cuda cores. If someone is looking for a dedicated physX card, I would suggest using something that has at least 192 cuda cores. If the PhysX card ever gets maxed out, it will drag your main gfx card down.

At some point I hope to benchmark a fight using three different scenarios:
1) GTX 660Ti + 460Ti
2) GTX 660Ti doing both gfx and physX
3) GTX 66ti + CPU

That's all I have for now.

~daPhoosa
 

sk3tch

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Hi all. I am looking to settle on a dedicated PhysX card for my HTPC rig (running a GTX 680 reference as primary). Mostly for Borderlands 2. Specs are in my sig.

I have purchased the following today to determine which will be best for my dedicated PhysX needs:
- EVGA GTX 580 SC 1.5GB DDR5 ($210, used)
- EVGA GT 640 2GB DDR3 ($95 AR)
- EVGA GTX 650 SC 1GB DDR5 ($110 AR)

I will post results when I have them. This should help us understand exactly how much juice is required. So far, it looks like the GTX 650 SC is equivalent to a GTX 460 as a dedicated PhysX processor (info here: http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1743982) but I'd like to see if throwing more at it helps (GTX 580 SC). Also, perhaps it's just all about the CUDA cores and you don't need to bother with speed? In that case the GT 640 would be ideal for the cost. We'll soon find out... :)
 
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