Philips BDM4065UC - 40" 4K 60Hz monitor thread

Can someone else test their monitor on a full screen dark grey and let me know if they are seeing a similar issue? Its about the only real deal breaking for me on this monitor and drove me nuts :(

AB0W7137-Edit.jpg


I did a quite writeup aswell: http://www.terranmedia.com.au/blog/2015/1/20/d1ww71ckcav9ye59y6jtyy21k7d50y
 
Can someone else test their monitor on a full screen dark grey and let me know if they are seeing a similar issue? Its about the only real deal breaking for me on this monitor and drove me nuts :(

I did a quite writeup aswell: http://www.terranmedia.com.au/blog/2015/1/20/d1ww71ckcav9ye59y6jtyy21k7d50y

This is an inherent issue of VA panels usually called VA viewing cone, or just gamma/contrast shift. It's the main reason why IPS is recommended over VA for photo editing, since the gamma shift will change depending on the viewing angle. Calibrator dE values don't really show this since they are measured head-on. That's also why TN panels still suck even when they're calibrated. All VA panels have this issue to some extent, and variations between units probably aren't big enough to warrant trying to get a better one.
 
Suspected as much, havn't had many dealings with VA panels up till now. Surprising it only affects darker greys though.
 
I am loving this panel for gaming and watching movies, my only problem is that i have to reboot several times to get it to recognise 60 hz as an option in the display settings. most times it just boots at 30 hz and nothing else is in the drop down menus. anybody have any ideas?
(running win 7 64 bit, gtx 980)
 
A 40" 8k even assuming you had the interface to drive that at 60hz, would not be all that great IMO, for starters the PPI in one of those is insane, you would need to scale things by 200% or there about, anything that wouldn't scale properly or scale at all would be unusable, then we have the distance that one would need to sit from the monitor, which is probably far too small, and finally we have the massive resolution increase, considering you already need to SLI/Crossfire 2 high end cards if you hope to get 60 FPS, getting that at 8k would be pretty much impossible for I suspect quite a long time. The only way I see a 40" 8k being at all advantageous would be if you only worked on it, and all the programs you used scaled well.

Have you seen Apple 27"@5K or any other 5K 27" monitor? Math shows that 40"@8K would have exactly the same PPI. There is no problem with providing proper scaling for such monitor, as Apple is doing. Driving 8K obviously requires horsepower but that will be solved within the next 18-24 months. So all these are not big issues. The problem which I see after comparing Apple 5K is that PQ improvement by increased PPI is marginal. Maybe somebody with eagle eyes and working in high-end professional photography would have real use of it. Check both newer and older Apple 27" monitors to see this.

I see 5K and 8K fitting nicely into ultrawide curved monitors by expanding the width of the current 40" while keeping the height same, there is a real need for more pixels then.
 
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This is an inherent issue of VA panels usually called VA viewing cone, or just gamma/contrast shift. It's the main reason why IPS is recommended over VA for photo editing, since the gamma shift will change depending on the viewing angle. Calibrator dE values don't really show this since they are measured head-on. That's also why TN panels still suck even when they're calibrated. All VA panels have this issue to some extent, and variations between units probably aren't big enough to warrant trying to get a better one.

But I see from pics this only shows with those greys, not colors, right? Such dull greys are not often seen.
 
I am loving this panel for gaming and watching movies, my only problem is that i have to reboot several times to get it to recognise 60 hz as an option in the display settings. most times it just boots at 30 hz and nothing else is in the drop down menus. anybody have any ideas?
(running win 7 64 bit, gtx 980)

Occasionally have the same issue with mine in OSX. Sometimes boots up in 30hz mode and I have to turn the monitor off and back on. There were some settings in the service mode not sure if they might help or even disabling the Philips logo if that starts the screen quicker.

But I see from pics this only shows with those greys, not colors, right? Such dull greys are not often seen.

They are in Photoshop etc, also noticed it in ARMA3 at night
 
This one
http://www.pcgamer.com/philips-bdm4065uc-monitor-review/

In terms of colour, the Philips panel is rocking a true 8-bit screen, but looks to be using some sort of frame rate control (FRC) to mimic the effects of a 10-bit panel. Philips are quoting a full 1.07 billion colours with the BDM4065UC as opposed to the 16.7 million you'd expect from a standard 8-bit monitor. That puts it well ahead of the Seiko we saw at CES in that context.

Ok, but their own wording by saying that it SEEMS to be using FRC suggests that they're not confident about it. And given that Philips in a press release also quoted flicker-free, who knows if that's correct? But again, it doesn't matter except to people who work in Adobe RGB, have a professional GPU properly configured, and work with applications that know how to deal with it. I don't understand what the obsession is here.

You are mixing up things here. Nonsquare pixels in the 40 incher have nothing to do with SD. It was explained much earlier in this thread that the reason is cost cutting.
What happens is that by slightly reducing pixel size they are able to fit more panels on the single sheet of glass when they make them. They get glass utilization of 98% which is really high. Imagine that by slight reduction of one pixel dimension they get additional row or column of panels made, this is huge saving. I am convinced that if this has not been actually measured by some guy in Japan, nobody would notice it.

Aha! So they're not making the pixels wider than they should be, they're making them shorter than they should be. Interesting, and the explanation of making the most use of the raw glass sheets they use makes sense in that case. Thanks!!

Have you seen Apple 27"@5K or any other 5K 27" monitor? Math shows that 40"@8K would have exactly the same PPI. There is no problem with providing proper scaling for such monitor, as Apple is doing. Driving 8K obviously requires horsepower but that will be solved within the next 18-24 months. So all these are not big issues. The problem which I see after comparing Apple 5K is that PQ improvement by increased PPI is marginal. Maybe somebody with eagle eyes and working in high-end professional photography would have real use of it. Check both newer and older Apple 27" monitors to see this.

The point was that for Windows, 200% scaling can be a nightmare because not every application -- or even every aspect of Windows -- scales nicely or even scales at all, so beauty might be trumped by a loss of functionality on an 8K version of this display. A big reason people have been interested in this panel in the first place is that it allows you to use 4K without any scaling. Apple can provide a much better scaling experience because they didn't provide any scaling in Mac OS at all before Retina, so they only had to introduce scaling support for 200%, which is much more easily accomplished than supporting an arbitrary scale factor like Windows does. It also helps that they control both the hardware ecosystem and the OS, so using them to compare to Microsoft isn't quite apples to apples (har har).

But I think the viewing distance point raised above relates to this chart: http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html. Granted the chart will be less accurate at the resolutions and viewing distances we're talking about, but as you can see, even seeing the full benefit of 4K, which is 4x the resolution of 1080p, requires that on a 40" display you drop your viewing distance from 4 feet to about 2.5 feet. So seeing the full benefit of 8K, which is 4x that of 4K, will require you to view it from....maybe 1 foot away? How reasonable is that? I imagine owners aren't sitting closer than 2.5 feet to these displays, in which case they wouldn't see ANY benefit of an 8K 40" display. It's not quite the same as a 27" 1440p vs 5K display because you can sit closer to a 27" display than a 40" display without parts of the display being outside your field of vision, which in turn means that increased resolution will be more apparent -- plus 8K is 2.25x as many pixels as 5K, so you're talking about perceiving a whole lot more resolution than a 27" 5K panel while also sitting farther away.

And lastly, I think another big problem with 8K (other than GPU horsepower and of course cost) assuming you want 60 Hz will be the interconnect. DP 1.2 supports 17.28 Gbps after subtracting overhead, and despite arriving 5 years later, DP 1.3 only bumps that up to 25.92, enough to cover 5K @ 60 Hz. 8K @ 60 Hz with 8-bit color and 2D requires 50 Gbps to deliver uncompressed. Of course DP 1.3 can achieve an equivalent 80 Gbps with compression that it now supports (similar to what you see with USB video docking stations), but that will cut into some of the sharpness that you'd otherwise experience. Or I suppose an 8K display could do what Dell's current 5K display is doing -- require two dedicated DisplayPort connections (not MST), which in this case would have to be 1.3. But I'm betting that whatever interconnect comes next will have a new connector since the marginal improvement of DP 1.3 suggests that the current ones seem to have topped out.
 
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I dont know why but every time I try to attempt to overclock to 75hz I get mad frame skipping in the UFO test on both IE and Chrome. What am I missing?
1. I downloaded and installed the inf from philips website
2. I use cru to set up a profile 3840x1440 @75hz and 1920x1080 @75hz (both frame skip)
3. I created the custom resolution in nvidia control panel. (using gtx 980)
any help would be greatly appreciated!
2mwtrgy.jpg

Hey mate sorry for the late reply am currently at work (80 hour weeks ftl).

I used LCD standard when setting the resolution and refresh in CRU (make sure you use CRU, much better than nvidia cp), also set 1.2 DP in the monitor. Also I use R9 290x, not sure if that has an effect...did you also run the pixel clock patcher for NVidia flavor?.

This will generally be the first 2 entries if you google "pixel clock patcher", I always run it when attempting to overclock a panel or change drivers.

Also try downing it to 70-72hz as well to see if that works and move from there. I purchased my monitor in Australia and not sure of T-Con versions as of yet, if you have further issues I am more than happy to pull mine apart to give a T-Con version but first try the other methods. Do note the 70-72hz I am suggesting for the 3840x1440 and not 4k.

I did have issues at first when trying to overclock to 72hz @ 4k, it made my GPU's DP not be recognized and displayed a lot of artifacts. But after pixel clock patch it seemed to clear up (after reverting to 70hz) so quite possibly that could be the answer?. That's as much detail as I have for now as I am not at home and am here for another 9 hours.

I have a feeling this will require us to investigate further with possible regional hardware versions used within these screens.

Not sure why there is an Issue as I was able to capture no frame skipping on my screen at 70hz, I only have 66hz posted atm with a photo but happy to do so when I get home.

Cheers,

Rob.
 
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commando back!

- Received today my Phillips.

- Installed the newest Intel drivers to my Surface 3 Pro (i7 CPU Version).

- Changed via OSD the Phillips DP from 1.1 to 1.2.

- Connected the monitor via a Lindy miniDP->DP cable.

get only 3840 x 2160 @29hz can be changed to 3840 x 2160 @30hz


but not 60hz possible.

damid ^^
 
commando back!

- Received today my Phillips.

- Installed the newest Intel drivers to my Surface 3 Pro (i7 CPU Version).

- Changed via OSD the Phillips DP from 1.1 to 1.2.

- Connected the monitor via a Lindy miniDP->DP cable.

get only 3840 x 2160 @29hz can be changed to 3840 x 2160 @30hz


but not 60hz possible.

damid ^^

I didn't read that entire Microsoft link, but they're talking about the Dell UP3214Q, which is an MST display, i.e. the GPU sees it as two 1920x2160 displays and then the driver is configured to present them to the OS as a single canvas. This is an SST display that presents itself to the GPU natively as a 3840x2160 canvas, which is normally better because you have fewer issues than with MST and less complexity in the display itself, but apparently one of the drawbacks is that there are some systems like the SP3 that can ONLY do 4K @ 60 Hz via MST -- and there's no way to drive an SST display in MST mode since the latter requires a second display controller in the display itself.
 
Anyone else in the Netherlands having to wait weeks/months on end for this monitor? I ordered 13 december 2014 and got a message each 2 weeks saying it will be available in 2 weeks..
Waited patiently until today but again I got an email (from Azerty) Saying it will be there 18 feb.

Most stores seem to deliver this monitor very slowly.
 
Hey mate sorry for the late reply am currently at work (80 hour weeks ftl).

I used LCD standard when setting the resolution and refresh in CRU (make sure you use CRU, much better than nvidia cp), also set 1.2 DP in the monitor. Also I use R9 290x, not sure if that has an effect...did you also run the pixel clock patcher for NVidia flavor?.

This will generally be the first 2 entries if you google "pixel clock patcher", I always run it when attempting to overclock a panel or change drivers.

Also try downing it to 70-72hz as well to see if that works and move from there. I purchased my monitor in Australia and not sure of T-Con versions as of yet, if you have further issues I am more than happy to pull mine apart to give a T-Con version but first try the other methods. Do note the 70-72hz I am suggesting for the 3840x1440 and not 4k.

I did have issues at first when trying to overclock to 72hz @ 4k, it made my GPU's DP not be recognized and displayed a lot of artifacts. But after pixel clock patch it seemed to clear up (after reverting to 70hz) so quite possibly that could be the answer?. That's as much detail as I have for now as I am not at home and am here for another 9 hours.

I have a feeling this will require us to investigate further with possible regional hardware versions used within these screens.

Not sure why there is an Issue as I was able to capture no frame skipping on my screen at 70hz, I only have 66hz posted atm with a photo but happy to do so when I get home.

Cheers,

Rob.
First of all thanks for your help!
I am still running into problems though.
Im now only using CRU and reset all my nvidia cp settings to default.
I installed the patcher
I tried 2 resolutions 3840x1440 @70hz and 3840x2160 @66hz
both are still giving me frame skips.
I don't know if it's me or if it's really happening but I feel like the monitor is smoother at native 60hz
Also note I can see the frame skips on the ufo tester visibly w/o using my camera.
Using my camera took me 36 tries to catch the frame that was actually skipping as well.
Also also note I do have a qnix OC'd to 112hz so im not an extreme noob when it comes to these things.:)
 
Might be a noob question since I never OCed a monitor, but isn't it possible he got a better monitor for OC than you have, or can all monitors that are the same model clock to the same values?

Anyone else in the Netherlands having to wait weeks/months on end for this monitor? I ordered 13 december 2014 and got a message each 2 weeks saying it will be available in 2 weeks..
Waited patiently until today but again I got an email (from Azerty) Saying it will be there 18 feb.

Most stores seem to deliver this monitor very slowly.

It's a general stock problem in the EU, but it is getting significantly better, right now you have overclockers and caseking.de with stock, altough their prices aren't the best around, amazon.co.uk might have some at the end of this week/next week but it's extremely unlikely you will get them since people that are ordering them now, are being given an estimate between next month and march.
Right now in what concerns reputable stores caseking.de is probably your best bet.
 
Hi. First post. I've been reading this thread with interest as I have been thinking of getting this monitor.

Currently I have a latest model Mac Mini (2.6 GHz with Intel Iris Graphics) connected to a 37 inch Panasonic LCD panel. I understand I will only be able to get 30 Hz at 4K resolution. I also have a Virgin Media TiVo connected to the Panasonic for TV viewing. I don't do gaming.

My questions are, would my viewing experience be greatly improved with the extra resolution of the Philips monitor and also would web page text be half the size?
 
Hi. First post. I've been reading this thread with interest as I have been thinking of getting this monitor.

Currently I have a latest model Mac Mini (2.6 GHz with Intel Iris Graphics) connected to a 37 inch Panasonic LCD panel. I understand I will only be able to get 30 Hz at 4K resolution. I also have a Virgin Media TiVo connected to the Panasonic for TV viewing. I don't do gaming.

My questions are, would my viewing experience be greatly improved with the extra resolution of the Philips monitor and also would web page text be half the size?

You didn't specify the resolution of your Panasonic TV, but assuming it's 1080p, text would indeed be roughly half the size (slightly larger since the Philips is a larger panel). If the TV is 720p, text will be even smaller than half the size. However, 30 Hz can be a real drag even for general usage. The mouse cursor looks choppy when moved around, and even video can be problematic. 24 fps video will use 3:2 pulldown like the earlier DVD days, and 60 fps video will of course only be half as smooth.

As to whether your viewing experience will improve, it depends a lot on how you want to use it. If your TiVo only outputs 1080p, then the extra resolution on this panel will deliver absolutely zero benefit. Of course there's more to image quality than raw resolution, but without knowing more about your TV, it's hard to say how the Philips would compare -- although even if I did know more about your TV, to be honest I'm not going to research it extensively to give you an estimate, since that's the type of pre-purchase research you should be doing. :) For general productivity, if you're sitting close enough that the decreased size isn't an issue, then yes you'll get a lot more real estate to work with, and a real display is much better than a TV for reasons such as input lag, full RGB, etc. If on the other hand the text would be too small at your viewing distance and therefore you wouldn't benefit from the added real estate and would have to enable scaling to make things usable, then this would arguably be a step backward in terms of overall experience for you.
 
You didn't specify the resolution of your Panasonic TV, but assuming it's 1080p, text would indeed be roughly half the size (slightly larger since the Philips is a larger panel). If the TV is 720p, text will be even smaller than half the size. However, 30 Hz can be a real drag even for general usage. The mouse cursor looks choppy when moved around, and even video can be problematic. 24 fps video will use 3:2 pulldown like the earlier DVD days, and 60 fps video will of course only be half as smooth.

As to whether your viewing experience will improve, it depends a lot on how you want to use it. If your TiVo only outputs 1080p, then the extra resolution on this panel will deliver absolutely zero benefit. Of course there's more to image quality than raw resolution, but without knowing more about your TV, it's hard to say how the Philips would compare -- although even if I did know more about your TV, to be honest I'm not going to research it extensively to give you an estimate, since that's the type of pre-purchase research you should be doing. :) For general productivity, if you're sitting close enough that the decreased size isn't an issue, then yes you'll get a lot more real estate to work with, and a real display is much better than a TV for reasons such as input lag, full RGB, etc. If on the other hand the text would be too small at your viewing distance and therefore you wouldn't benefit from the added real estate and would have to enable scaling to make things usable, then this would arguably be a step backward in terms of overall experience for you.
Thank you for the comprehensive reply. The TV is 1080p. If I ran the Philips at 1080p surely the text would be sharper/smoother as each character would be composed of 4x the pixels? However, it seems I wouldn't be gaining enough all round to justify the outlay.
 
commando back!

- Received today my Phillips.

- Installed the newest Intel drivers to my Surface 3 Pro (i7 CPU Version).

- Changed via OSD the Phillips DP from 1.1 to 1.2.

- Connected the monitor via a Lindy miniDP->DP cable.

get only 3840 x 2160 @29hz can be changed to 3840 x 2160 @30hz


but not 60hz possible.

damid ^^


I didn't read that entire Microsoft link, but
...
there are some systems like the SP3 that can ONLY do 4K @ 60 Hz via MST .

sorry this is wrong. the new intel driver works at SF3Pro i7 version with SST 4K@60hz. You must install him like described in the link. Updating the firmware of SF3 will replace with an older driver.

The poster in microsoft forum tested a 4K monitors but sadly only a few will receive 60hz@4K on the SF3 Pro.


BTW: very nice monitor!!! No flickering to see at desktop or games (for the ones who are get cracy about the background light)
 
Thank you for the comprehensive reply. The TV is 1080p. If I ran the Philips at 1080p surely the text would be sharper/smoother as each character would be composed of 4x the pixels? However, it seems I wouldn't be gaining enough all round to justify the outlay.

If you held the physical size of the text constant and the OS knew what you wanted to do, then yes you're right that text would be sharper -- as would graphics when high-resolution assets were available. But your Mac (and Windows boxes) won't default to that behavior with this display; instead of giving you 4x as many pixels to represent a given image, they'll use the extra pixels to give you 4x as much space. As a result, 12 pt text for example would have the same level of sharpness since it's comprised of the same number of pixels on each display, but on the Philips the text would only be about a quarter of the physical size of your Panasonic TV (half as large in each dimension, ignoring the 3-inch panel size discrepancy).

On a Mac, you may be able to use an application like SwitchResX to get the Mac to essentially treat this as a Retina display so that you maintain the existing "1080p-equivalent" real estate but with much sharper text and graphics as you say, but I don't know if anybody here has attempted that on this display. And on the Windows side, scaling isn't nearly that easy and clear cut anyway. :D But then there's still the question of whether you'd even notice the additional sharpness from your viewing distance. If a 37" 1080p TV has been sufficient for you until now, I assume your viewing distance is several feet away, in which case the sharpness improvement probably won't be as significant as moving from a regular to Retina display, for example. According to this chart, a 37" display would need to be viewed from ~2 ft away for 4K to be fully noticeable, and if you're sitting ~5 ft away or more, you wouldn't notice any improvement at all over 1080p.
 
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Can someone else test their monitor on a full screen dark grey and let me know if they are seeing a similar issue? Its about the only real deal breaking for me on this monitor and drove me nuts

tested now win8 background single colors: black, red, blue, grey, dark grey, but looks all fine, its all one surface.
 
Seiki is coming: We've been hoping to see VA technology and 4K in the same product, and it looks like Seiki is the first to provide it. VA, which stands for "Vertical Alignment," promises the color quality and wide viewing angles of IPS but with significantly higher contrast.

Do they use the same panel and tech as in Philips 40"??? Is the statement above overhyped?
 
That is overblown statement. One can check this easily as I did. I went to an Apple store and they had 27"@2560x1440 Apple monitor side-by-side with the 27" 5K monitor which is 5120x2880, both running same wallpaper. This is exactly the same pixel density and ratio which the 40" 4K and 40" 8K would have. Now, was the 5K monitor looking better? Yes, but it was on the border of noticeability when one was looking close for details. In normal use it would be forgettable. Check this by yourself.


.


Do you really not think there would be a difference at 8k?

I can tell you from using a 4k DELL 32" vs the Philips 40" 4k, the difference in sharpness is huge. At 40" 4k just doesn't look nearly as sharp, even at 5k it would be a massive upgrade(even more so at 8k). And while Windows doesn't scale properly now, I would bet Win 10 will scale higher resolutions properly(as Apple OSX does now)


My guess is in the next 3-5 years we will see 8k monitors and GPU's that can drive them.
 
First of all thanks for your help!
I am still running into problems though.
Im now only using CRU and reset all my nvidia cp settings to default.
I installed the patcher
I tried 2 resolutions 3840x1440 @70hz and 3840x2160 @66hz
both are still giving me frame skips.
I don't know if it's me or if it's really happening but I feel like the monitor is smoother at native 60hz
Also note I can see the frame skips on the ufo tester visibly w/o using my camera.
Using my camera took me 36 tries to catch the frame that was actually skipping as well.
Also also note I do have a qnix OC'd to 112hz so im not an extreme noob when it comes to these things.:)

That's odd compared to mine, If my camera wasn't wrecked by the mrs. i would be able to capture the frames and identify it properly. Will have to borrow my mates 1000fps camera to test true frame skipping on mine now.

If it turns out mine isn't skipping then there truly might be an issue with the internal components used between regions. Hopefully (to my detriment) this isn't the case as that would not bode well for Philips' sales.

Thank you for replying with the tests :). Apart from all that though are you enjoying the screen? love the black levels on this thing absolutely wipes the floor with IPS imho.
 
Seiki is coming: We've been hoping to see VA technology and 4K in the same product, and it looks like Seiki is the first to provide it. VA, which stands for "Vertical Alignment," promises the color quality and wide viewing angles of IPS but with significantly higher contrast.

Do they use the same panel and tech as in Philips 40"??? Is the statement above overhyped?

Same type of panel, however I would likely say the internals would be different. Seiki prided themselves on having 1080p @ 120hz with their last line of "monitors" of which I owned one.

I would certainly say it's not over-hyped but the issue with the original Seiki's was their awful colours that could not be adjusted (was more of a hybrid TV). But now it sounds like they want to aim more towards for proper monitor use.

If they have fixed up their act with the colour control then it looks like Philips may well have competition in the large screen 4k market.
 
Do you really not think there would be a difference at 8k?

I can tell you from using a 4k DELL 32" vs the Philips 40" 4k, the difference in sharpness is huge. At 40" 4k just doesn't look nearly as sharp, even at 5k it would be a massive upgrade(even more so at 8k). And while Windows doesn't scale properly now, I would bet Win 10 will scale higher resolutions properly(as Apple OSX does now)


My guess is in the next 3-5 years we will see 8k monitors and GPU's that can drive them.

Once again, it's a question of how close you can realistically sit to a 40" display, which is of course going to be farther away than a 32" display. That in turn means that there will be times when a given resolution makes a noticeable difference on a 32" panel at its "native" viewing distance and might not make as much of a difference on a 40" panel viewed from its farther away native viewing distance. That's not to say that 5K might not make a difference on this display, but I think you'd reach the point where the added sharpness stopped being detectable at a 40" display's viewing distance well before you reached 8K. Again, see the chart I linked in a post from a few hours ago.

Don't assume Win10 will do a whole lot better with scaling than 8.1. It's still too early to tell for sure because Microsoft is still adding features to the Technical Preview builds I'm playing with (though for now scaling is exactly the same), but they won't automagically be able to catch up to Apple. Microsoft has a fundamentally different approach to scaling since they've supported arbitrary scaling values for years now, whereas Mac OS never supported scaling until Retina, and then the only options were 1x or 2x. Apple's approach is drastically easier to deal with, both for Apple and third party devs, though they trade off a lot of flexibility to achieve that -- but Apple is in a position to make that tradeoff because unlike Microsoft, they control both the OS and the hardware that it will run on. Additionally, Microsoft thanks to their efforts to maintain legacy compatibility actually has multiple different scaling mechanisms, further complicating matters on their side.

It's also worth noting that Win8.1 even in its current form can do a better job of scaling than we see right now. As part of the per-display scaling implemented in 8.1, Microsoft added an API message called WM_DPICHANGED that tells an application when it has been dragged from, for example, a HiDPI to regular DPI display. Theoretically the application could be coded to respond to that and re-draw itself (using higher or lower resolution assets as appropriate) to look good on that new display rather than relying on the "GPU zoom" functionality that kicks in if the application does nothing. The problem is that I haven't seen an application that actually responds to that message, including Microsoft's own apps. So although Microsoft could certainly improve their scaling, particularly with respect to coding more of their own apps to support it better, a lot of the work to improve our scaling experience will have to come from third-party developers. But of course even that means that people using applications that are no longer under development will be SOL.

Further reading here if you're interested: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7939/scaling-windows-the-dpi-arms-race/3
 
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tested now win8 background single colors: black, red, blue, grey, dark grey, but looks all fine, its all one surface.

are you seeing darking effect in the middle of the screen on dark greys? The camera makes it look a little worse than it is but it will move across the screen aswell. It affects the entire panel depending where you center your vision.
 
don't can see the effekt you describe. Maybe iam blind for that? for me all looks find.

Whats with the other Phillips users here?
 
If you held the physical size of the text constant and the OS knew what you wanted to do, then yes you're right that text would be sharper -- as would graphics when high-resolution assets were available. But your Mac (and Windows boxes) won't default to that behavior with this display; instead of giving you 4x as many pixels to represent a given image, they'll use the extra pixels to give you 4x as much space. As a result, 12 pt text for example would have the same level of sharpness since it's comprised of the same number of pixels on each display, but on the Philips the text would only be about a quarter of the physical size of your Panasonic TV (half as large in each dimension, ignoring the 3-inch panel size discrepancy).

On a Mac, you may be able to use an application like SwitchResX to get the Mac to essentially treat this as a Retina display so that you maintain the existing "1080p-equivalent" real estate but with much sharper text and graphics as you say, but I don't know if anybody here has attempted that on this display. And on the Windows side, scaling isn't nearly that easy and clear cut anyway. :D But then there's still the question of whether you'd even notice the additional sharpness from your viewing distance. If a 37" 1080p TV has been sufficient for you until now, I assume your viewing distance is several feet away, in which case the sharpness improvement probably won't be as significant as moving from a regular to Retina display, for example. According to this chart, a 37" display would need to be viewed from ~2 ft away for 4K to be fully noticeable, and if you're sitting ~5 ft away or more, you wouldn't notice any improvement at all over 1080p.
I'm still tempted to order one having read about SwitchResX (thanks for the heads up). My viewing distance across my desk is approx. 34 inches except when watching TV when it is much further. I assume it will scale the 1080i output of the TiVo to full screen?
 
That's odd compared to mine, If my camera wasn't wrecked by the mrs. i would be able to capture the frames and identify it properly. Will have to borrow my mates 1000fps camera to test true frame skipping on mine now.

If it turns out mine isn't skipping then there truly might be an issue with the internal components used between regions. Hopefully (to my detriment) this isn't the case as that would not bode well for Philips' sales.

Thank you for replying with the tests :). Apart from all that though are you enjoying the screen? love the black levels on this thing absolutely wipes the floor with IPS imho.

Yes! love the screen! I cant imagine going back to anything else. pure bliss in front of my eyes.
 
I'm still tempted to order one having read about SwitchResX (thanks for the heads up). My viewing distance across my desk is approx. 34 inches except when watching TV when it is much further. I assume it will scale the 1080i output of the TiVo to full screen?

I wouldn't assume that this display can accept a 1080i signal. Looking at the list of supported resolutions in the manual, it doesn't specify progressive or interlaced, but it may well only accept progressive resolutions. So 720p would definitely be fine, as would 1080p if your TiVo could output it, but 1080i may not be possible. That said, most people can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080i anyway, so this could just require a reconfiguration of your TiVo. In fact 720p has some advantages over 1080i if you can spot the differences, particularly if your display doesn't have a good deinterlacer to handle 1080i well.

At a viewing distance of 34 inches you'd definitely see a sharpness improvement by using "Retina 1080p" through SwitchResX (3840x2160 with HiDPI enabled). Don't expect the sharpness you see on Retina MacBook Pros and the iMac 5K compared to their non-Retina counterparts purely because those displays have a higher PPI than this one and you're sitting farther back than you would while using those other products, but it will still look better than your current TV -- and of course if you decide you want the extra real estate rather than extra sharpness while sitting close enough, you can always run it in regular 3840x2160, i.e. with HiDPI disabled through SwitchResX.

But again, a few cautionary notes:

- I haven't seen confirmation from anybody here that SwitchResX on your Mac will work as you want it to with this display, particularly at 30 Hz. I suspect it will, but that's just a guess.
- You may not like using your Mac at 30 Hz. When I hook my PC up to my plasma TV and set the output to 24 Hz when I want to watch that content, the mouse cursor bothers me every time.
- As stated above, it may not support 1080i.

So if you want to take the plunge, make sure you buy from somewhere that would allow easy and cost-effective returns as opposed to buying internationally -- or make sure you know someone local who would be happy to buy it from you if you don't like it. ;)

UPDATE: Found a few more apps that allow you to control resolutions, some of them cheaper and even free. I think I used QuickRes a long time ago when I had a Retina MBP at work and the app was free, but I can't remember anymore: http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/macbook-pro-retina-display-faq/macbook-pro-retina-display-hack-to-run-native-resolution.html
 
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Seiki is coming: We've been hoping to see VA technology and 4K in the same product, and it looks like Seiki is the first to provide it. VA, which stands for "Vertical Alignment," promises the color quality and wide viewing angles of IPS but with significantly higher contrast.

Do they use the same panel and tech as in Philips 40"??? Is the statement above overhyped?

Yes it is overhyped compared to the Philips since the Philips is 8 bit and the Seiki uses 6 bit color. Both panels are a new hybrid PVA type
 
Same type of panel, however I would likely say the internals would be different. Seiki prided themselves on having 1080p @ 120hz with their last line of "monitors" of which I owned one.

I would certainly say it's not over-hyped but the issue with the original Seiki's was their awful colours that could not be adjusted (was more of a hybrid TV). But now it sounds like they want to aim more towards for proper monitor use.

If they have fixed up their act with the colour control then it looks like Philips may well have competition in the large screen 4k market.

Guys this is the 6 bit color Seiki panel shown at CES. It is CRAP. The Philips was first anyway. It claims the Seiki does 12 bit color, that does not even exist. That article is NONSENSE.
 
Let me bring out a few more quick questions:

1) How can there be burn in on this Philip LCD? This is LCD technology, not plasma. And does enable pixel orbiting fixes the problem?

2) How often does that 30 min burn in warning appears

3) How many of you have burn-in issue, permanent or temporary? because when you people say image retention, by definition, it's temporary. And if so, how long? A few min.? 30 min.?

4) is the stand strong enough to support the LCD, or can you easily knock off the LCD by tabbing the screen

5) how many of you is stuck at 30Hz and can't go back to 60Hz (assuming you're not overclocking the LCD)

6) since this is really a TV VA panel, why don't we just go buy a TV panel that is 40" UHD? for e.g.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...ffiliateID=TnL5HPStwNw-JmJpPKDffP8Cve0ur2agDA

is it only because HDMI is at 30Hz? If so, how soon will nvidia come out w/ a 60Hz HDMI at 4K resolution?
 
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Let me bring out a few more quick questions:

1) How can there be burn in on this Philip LCD? This is LCD technology, not plasma. And does enable pixel orbiting fixes the problem?

2) How often does that 30 min burn in warning appears

3) How many of you have burn-in issue, permanent or temporary? because when you people say image retention, by definition, it's temporary. And if so, how long? A few min.? 30 min.?

4) is the stand strong enough to support the LCD, or can you easily knock off the LCD by tabbing the screen

I only notice the image retention on the grey backgrounds but yes it is an issue. Doesn't take long for a latent image to show in the background. LCD's can burn in, I have seen one in the past that had the Facebook logo burnt into the screen lol.

The stand is all metal and every strong, it just sucks for ergonomics and adjustment.
 
Let me bring out a few more quick questions:
6) since this is really a TV VA panel, why don't we just go buy a TV panel that is 40" UHD?

Because only a few TV panels can do 4:4:4 60Hz 4K at 8bit color and the ones that do have terrible input lag. This a NEW TYPE of hybrid VA panel with monitor, and not TV, control electronics.
 
Anyone purchase this monitor from Ebay? How long did EMS take? (Not Fedex)

I'm being quoted the end of January by the seller, but all of my Korean monitors arrived in under 5 days.
 
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