Philips BDM4065UC - 40" 4K 60Hz monitor thread

No, quite the opposite. VA panels normally have faster response times than IPS (though not the case with the Phillips BDM4065UC) and much darker black levels due to the higher contrast but for color accuracy and viewing angles, IPS is far superior.
 
samuelmorris said:
No, quite the opposite. VA panels normally have faster response times than IPS (though not the case with the Phillips BDM4065UC) and much darker black levels due to the higher contrast but for color accuracy and viewing angles, IPS is far superior.
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Nono, VA panels are the slowest panel type out there. The one thing I personally really dislike about them.
 
"Better colors" is a bit vague term to use. You can calibrate a TN panel to < 3 dE and call it color accurate, but it still won't look as good. IPS is good because it has the least amount of contrast shift based on your viewing angle, while TN and VA have issues even when viewed head-on. That said, IPS is poor when it comes to black depth, so you could say it's got really "bad colors" when looking at something really dark. Then there's other things like coverage, gamma, white point etc. I'd say for anything but needing high uniformity and accuracy for professional work a VA panel with 5000:1 contrast is far superior to an IPS panel with 1000:1.
 
greyx said:
That means, some 4K tv ( IPS ) have better colors than this monitor ?
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Well it depends what type of IPS. In general IPS has better colours. I use to have a 4K LG monitor with 10 bit AH-IPS panel and it totally killed the Philips in Colour accuracy and clarity.
 
Statistically, if you found an IPS TV (I wasn't aware of there being too many of these) then yes, it would have better color. In my humble opinion, most monitors have better color than the Philips, I found it very disappointing for color accuracy, among other things.

Firepc: possibly, IPS always used to be considered very slow, but I've never experienced ghosting on the displays I've used with it since 2006, but I certainly did on the Philips.
 
Well, in this case, which 4k tv would you recommend ?
Not bigger than 42 inches, 4:4:4 and 60Hz
Thank you
 
samuelmorris said:
Yes, they are almost indistinguishable - however, many 27" 2560x1440 monitors use IPS panels, which are far superior to that used in the Phillips, so bear that in mind. The viewing experience is not quite the same.
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but IPS black level is like a very dark shade of grey, whereas VA is like black hole black
 
Generally speaking VA panels do have poorer color accuracy than IPS panels, worse viewing angles, and worse response times, ofc IPS also has poorer contrast (by a very significant amount usually), and like all panel technologies their own set of disadvantages/problems.

Should be strongly emphasized that there is a significant difference between color accuracy and liking the colors of certain monitors (particularly 10 bit panels), color accuracy requires calibration, even factory calibration is not ideal since it doesn't take into account the light conditions of the end user, so just liking the colors of a monitor more than another does not make one more accurate than the other, in fact there is quite a good many people liking 10 bit panels, mostly because 10 bit panels when not properly setup will be displaying more "vivid colors", due to being setup to work in adobe rgb instead of srgb, so most content which is produced for srgb gets "overdriven", and colors end up looking more vivid, which is not how it's supposed to be viewed, but regardless many people prefer this and while there is nothing wrong with that, it is something to take into consideration.

That being said yeah if you have an IPS monitor, this philips or just about any VA TV panel you will get (there are always exceptions), will likely have worse color reproduction, it's not just a panel technology thing, IPS monitors are aimed a lot of the times at the professional market (strongly reflected in the price and monitor settings), that requires color accuracy (mostly for print work), so color accuracy is a priority from the ground up when designing the panels, and we can be pretty certain that a VA panel made for a cheap TV did most definitely not had as it's priority color accuracy, since most users only really care about if the panel looks good, not if it's accurate or not.
 
Micael said:
Generally speaking VA panels do have poorer color accuracy than IPS panels, worse viewing angles, and worse response times, ofc IPS also has poorer contrast (by a very significant amount usually), and like all panel technologies their own set of disadvantages/problems..
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Glad to see a balanced post about panel types. Much to often people will be completely in favor of one type and talk down all others where in reality no type is perfect + also it is often forgotten in such discussion that the electronics matter a great deal as well. Like say when we look at the Philips the electronics are that of a computer monitor rather than a TV , so the thing has response time which is fast enough for gaming(without being the fastest thing out there).

My Philips sits right next to an older top dog IPS, a Dell UltraSharp U2711, and I can't say the colors are the same, but it is not saying the colors on the Philips are bad and one certainly notice that the black is black and not gray. For any sort of entertainment the look on the Philips wins big time.
 
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Hi guys,

I am planning on buying a 4k monitor, too. I definately want a VA-panel because in my eyes the picture looks much better. Better static contrast, deeper blacks no "IPS sparkling" in white windows, which seems to put stress on my eyes, and no glow in dark colors.

So I guess one of the 40" 4k AMVA display will become my next display. I am currently considering the Philips BDM4065UC, the Samsung UN40JU6500, and the Crossover 44k.

I do not really trust the Crossover, because it promises a lot of false stuff. Like the 1440p@120Hz and 1080p@144Hz (as far as i know the display can accept these as input but the actual displayed framerate is only 60Hz - happy frameskipping).

The Crossover also promises a flicker free display. But when I look at the ufo test pictures in the overclock forum - well, looks llike a PWM backlight to me. But I might be wrong.

On the other hand, even though I am allergic to low frequency flicker - I once had a cheap LED light bulb which flickered horrible @100Hz - I seem to have no problem with higher frequency flicker.

My current monitor has a 240Hz PWM backlight and that seems to be fine with me. No headaches, no eye strain - even after hours in the dark with the monitor beeing the only light source. And there is no effect on readability, like the TFTcentral website suggests. No matter how I move my eyes or my head, I never see the text falling apart like in their picture.

But I would have to import the crossover from Korea, which means I would have to give up my otherwise pretty strong consumer rights concerning returning, warrenty etc.

So I guess, the Crossover is out. The Samsung is out, too, because it seems to be inferior to the Philips in almost every way.

The Samsung has significant lower static contrast, a much worse black level, twice as much input lag @4:4:4, no DP 1.2, and only a 120 Hz PWM backlight. So thats clearly a no go for me.

But there is one thing about the Samsung that worries me, if it applies to the Philips, too. The Samsung seems to have a massiv input lag increase once you let it upscale the input.

Rtings.com measured following input lags for the Samsung:

Samsung UN40JU6500 input lag:
Game Mode: 26.5 ms (only compressed colors, 4:2:2)
PC Mode: 48 ms
With Interpolation: 117.5 ms
Outside Game/PC Mode: 118.1 ms ms

So here is my question to the Philips owners: is there such a massive input lag, when you let the Philips upscale (e.g. 1080p to 4k)? Or is this only a result of the Samsung beeing a TV and interpolation triggers all the (slow) TV processing circuits?

This could be a deal breaker for me, because while I plan to use the display for productivity, media consumption, etc in its native 4k resolution, I will be gaming mostly in 2560x1080.

I guess I could let the GPU upscale instead of the display - but if I want to record my gaming, this would probably mean, that I would have to record in 4k. I would prefer to record in 2560x1080 and let the display do the upscaling.
 
Brahmzy said:
Get the JU7500 if you go with the Samsung - I've owned both and there's significantly less blurring with the 7500.
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Or the JU7100 if he wants a flat panel instead of curved (since he mentioned the 6500).

SlippinJimmy, here's the breakdown on the Samsungs:

6500 series - flat
6700 series - same panel specs and electronics as the 6500 series, but curved panel shape

7100 series - flat (upgrade to the 6xxx series in terms of features and response time)
7500 series - same panel specs and electronics as the 7100 series, but curved panel shape
 
TARDIS said:
The Samsung has significant lower static contrast, a much worse black level, twice as much input lag @4:4:4, no DP 1.2, and only a 120 Hz PWM backlight. So thats clearly a no go for me.
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I wouldn't get *too* caught up in the specs. I don't recall the contrast figures off hand, but everyone that has the Samsung thinks it's a gorgeous panel, where several people here have been less than impressed with the colors on the Philips. I don't know how the black level could be much worse than that of the Philips; many of us are really impressed with the deep inky blacks on the Samsung. They're MUCH better than IPS...just in another league.

Regarding the input lag, I thought that previously they were comparable and about the same or a little bit higher than the Philips. At any rate, the latest firmware update drastically improved Game mode, both improving the visual quality to the point that it's almost the same as PC mode, and lowering input lag. People can still discern a slight difference in text between PC and Game mode, but from what I've read it's a non-issue when gaming (with the newest firmware, that is).

As far as PWM, I'm not sure if it was ever fully tested on the 7100/7500 (some thought it might be a higher frequency than the 120 Hz used on the 6500/6700). If you're sensitive to it then that's unfortunate...I currently own two 6700s and have used them in dark rooms with no problems from the PWM.
 
You should ask Seinfeld as he has owned both (Phillips and Samsung). Interpolation is different from scaling. There should be no added input lag due to scaling.
 
imyourzero said:
I wouldn't get *too* caught up in the specs. I don't recall the contrast figures off hand, but everyone that has the Samsung thinks it's a gorgeous panel, where several people here have been less than impressed with the colors on the Philips.
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Everybody was happy with the Samsung? I think I got a different impression when I read through the Samsung thread. But I might be wrong.

But I remember the guy who complained about the not so vivid colors of the Philips compared to his LG display in the Philips thread. I once tested a LG display and it had an extra setting for vivid colors - but this setting has nothing to do with natural color reproduction.

It basicly turns this color scale:


into this color scale:


So things that are not completely bright red/green/blue get simply pushed to the maximum level of red/green/blue. It will look impressive, very impressive - colorful, vivid - but the colors would be wrong. I want natural colors.

And the figures, which were measured, lean strongly towards the Philips:

Samsung (for a more or less dark room):
Black: 0.034 cd/m2
White: 100.2 cd/m2
Contrast: 2947 : 1

Philips (for a more or less dark room):
Black: 0.02 cd/m2
White: 106.67 cd/m2
Contrast: 5334 : 1

Of course the Philips has one HUGE fault, which could be an absolut dealbreaker no matter how good the figures look: there is this weird "shadow artefact", where you can see false lines or shadows on the desktop in certain high contrast situations.

But I have read mixed things about it, so I probably have to take a look at it myself.

imyourzero said:
Regarding the input lag, I thought that previously they were comparable and about the same or a little bit higher than the Philips. At any rate, the latest firmware update drastically improved Game mode, both improving the visual quality to the point that it's almost the same as PC mode, and lowering input lag. People can still discern a slight difference in text between PC and Game mode, but from what I've read it's a non-issue when gaming (with the newest firmware, that is).
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Yeah, in Game Mode with compressed (4:2:2) colors the Samsung has about the same input lag as the Philips with uncompressed (4:4:4) colors. Once you go to uncompressed colors on the Samsung the input lag is twice as high as on the Philips - which is kind of a lot.

The compressed colors, well, in gaming it probably doesn't matter that much, but one probably has to switch to PC Mode, when one does a lot of reading on the display. I think switching the modes would annoy me in time - and even on the desktop a 48ms might annoy me, because I am using a high sense mouse setting

imyourzero said:
As far as PWM, I'm not sure if it was ever fully tested on the 7100/7500 (some thought it might be a higher frequency than the 120 Hz used on the 6500/6700). If you're sensitive to it then that's unfortunate...I currently own two 6700s and have used them in dark rooms with no problems from the PWM.
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I think the 7series has a 240Hz PWM backlight like the Philips. And with 240Hz PWM I would be perfectly fine.

I saw the 100Hz flicker from the cheap LED bulb, I mentioned earlier, only from the corner of the eye. It was like a strobe effect in the corner of the eye, when I turned my head. Completely unbearable. Luckily there are also LED bulbs which have pretty much zero flicker.

Cyph said:
You should ask Seinfeld as he has owned both (Phillips and Samsung). Interpolation is different from scaling. There should be no added input lag due to scaling.
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Good point. I might have gotten interpolation and upscaling mixed up - and the reviewers do not write which setting they used for the interpolation lag measurement.

I guess my worries were for nothing. After all, sombody would have noticed a 117ms lag, I guess. It would have been there whenever one attaches a PS4 or XBone. So I guess there is no extra input lag with upscaling - neither on the Samsung nor on the Philips.
 
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TARDIS said:
Everybody was happy with the Samsung? I think I got a different impression when I read through the Samsung thread. But I might be wrong.
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Well, I joined that thread when it was just a few pages (basically when the 4:4:4/60 was confirmed and it blew up) so I certainly don't recall all of the posts that have been made since then, but the general impression that I'm getting is that the current owners are extremely happy with their units and very few people (if anyone) has opted to return it for something else. By and large, it seems like people are pretty blown away. And if someone is seeking the 48" model or a curved screen, neither of which are possible with the Philips, then there is only one choice. But I think even the flat 40" models compete with the Philips quite well. I don't own the Philips so I can't definitively say that one is better than the other, but it's nice that there is more than one option these days.

TARDIS said:
Of course the Philips has one HUGE fault, which could be an absolut dealbreaker no matter how good the figures look: there is this weird "shadow artefact", where you can see false lines or shadows on the desktop in certain high contrast situations.
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Yeah, that was one of the things that really concerned me about the Philips. I don't know that it's an absolute dealbreaker; it's possible that I could live with it I guess but once other options became available I knew that there was no need to be forced to deal with it. Of course, the issue that you describe might be tolerated by someone else who was annoyed by another issue on the Samsung and/or Crossover displays. So it's really subjective I guess. You just have to do your research (or buy with a safe return policy), make your choices, and decide what works best for you.

TARDIS said:
The compressed colors, well, in gaming it probably doesn't matter that much, but one probably has to switch to PC Mode, when one does a lot of reading on the display. I think switching the modes would annoy me in time - and even on the desktop a 48ms might annoy me, because I am using a high sense mouse setting
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The impression that I got from the feedback after the latest firmware update was that text was now perfectly usable in Game mode, and almost as good as PC mode. I used Game mode prior to the update and there was definitely a lot of colored fringing on text which was quite ugly. Supposedly the update has removed that fringing, so it might be OK in desktop use now (along with reduced input lag), thus negating the need to switch. Even if you have to switch modes occasionally, it's not really a big deal but then again if I switched multiple times daily it might get annoying, so that's a fair point. It would be nice if you could do it with the touch of a button but as it currently stands you do have to go into the menu and navigate a couple of levels down in order to switch.
 
TARDIS said:
Everybody was happy with the Samsung? I think I got a different impression when I read through the Samsung thread. But I might be wrong.

Yeah, in Game Mode with compressed (4:2:2) colors the Samsung has about the same input lag as the Philips with uncompressed (4:4:4) colors. Once you go to uncompressed colors on the Samsung the input lag is twice as high as on the Philips - which is kind of a lot.

The compressed colors, well, in gaming it probably doesn't matter that much, but one probably has to switch to PC Mode, when one does a lot of reading on the display. I think switching the modes would annoy me in time - and even on the desktop a 48ms might annoy me, because I am using a high sense mouse setting

I think the 7series has a 240Hz PWM backlight like the Philips. And with 240Hz PWM I would be perfectly fine.
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I have owned both and I can say that I did like the Samsung more then Philips, the only issue I had with the Samsung is PWM. Samsung has twice as much input lag in PC mode? It has more then Philips but I doubt it's twice as much. Someone in the Samsung thread mentioned 36ms. When I was moving the mouse cursor on desktop it looked like there was a bit of lag compared to my Benq, but I am not so sure. I don't think that 240Hz PWM is much better then 120Hz.
 
http://imgur.com/a/WacdS

Got mine yesterday. I haven't noticed any of the issues that have been discussed here so far. The response time is great and far better than the Samsung JU6700 Series 48&#8221; I had.

Colors are great, blacks are much darker than my other monitors. I did notice a little bit of grey banding once or twice in alien isolation but I believe that was just the "VHS graininess" post processing effect in the engine.

I think at this size a slight curve would be beneficial and help for readability at the corners of the screen but I was able to use it just fine without any scaling.
 
My samsung came damaged so take these tests with a grain of salt. I was able to get the display up and going despite the smashed 1/3 of the screen but I have no idea if that has an effect on input latency:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbzUX8wa_jw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4CDEeVpYHA

http://imgur.com/a/tHDmH

At any rate the input lag was very very noticeable on the samsung even in game mode when compared to my Asus vw246h. Here is a shot from PC mode http://i.imgur.com/lxf70jD.jpg The asus has a measured input lag of 18ms.

I didn't have them side by side so I can't tell you anything about picture quality. But I did notice that my Philips makes all my other monitors look like absolute trash. I didn't notice this with the samsung.

The curved screen was nice but I honestly felt like 48" was a bit too big after sitting in front of it. The input latency was so bad on my (damaged) samsung there is no way I'd be able to use it as a monitor in any capacity.
 
Hopefully you'll continue not to notice issues. IIRC some of them were found after the owners had used the unit for a while.

Did you use your Samsung in Game mode? I don't see how the Philips could be "far better" than the Samsung with the newest firmware that you probably didn't get to upgrade to, but all that matters is that you're happy with it. It's nice to be able to settle down with something and just enjoy it.

I turned that film grain effect off in Alien: Isolation, BTW. Game looks better without it, IMO.

edit: n/m I see that you did try Game mode, albeit with the older (slower) firmware. You posted while I was typing :)
 
imyourzero said:
edit: n/m I see that you did try Game mode, albeit with the older (slower) firmware. You posted while I was typing :)
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I did update the firmware actually. I really don't like all the extra "smart" features Samsung adds to the displays either.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...warns-customers-their-smart-tvs-are-listening

I think at least part of the issue was the damaged display causing some post processing to take longer than usual but as you can see from the youtube videos I made and linked the latency is very noticeable and disorienting.
 
ubernaut said:
I think at least part of the issue was the damaged display causing some post processing to take longer than usual but as you can see from the youtube videos I made and linked the latency is very noticeable and disorienting.
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Definitely something was wrong. As measured via Leo Bodnar by another user which is 10-12ms slower than camera method, 20 ms should be equivalent to 10-12ms with the camera method.
 
ubernaut said:
http://imgur.com/a/WacdS

Got mine yesterday. I haven't noticed any of the issues that have been discussed here so far. The response time is great and far better than the Samsung JU6700 Series 48” I had.

Colors are great, blacks are much darker than my other monitors. I did notice a little bit of grey banding once or twice in alien isolation but I believe that was just the "VHS graininess" post processing effect in the engine.

I think at this size a slight curve would be beneficial and help for readability at the corners of the screen but I was able to use it just fine without any scaling.
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Glad you're enjoying it. What settings are you running?
 
ubernaut said:
http://imgur.com/a/WacdS

Got mine yesterday. I haven't noticed any of the issues that have been discussed here so far. The response time is great and far better than the Samsung JU6700 Series 48” I had.

Colors are great, blacks are much darker than my other monitors. I did notice a little bit of grey banding once or twice in alien isolation but I believe that was just the "VHS graininess" post processing effect in the engine.

I think at this size a slight curve would be beneficial and help for readability at the corners of the screen but I was able to use it just fine without any scaling.
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where is your source, is it amazon USA?

also, when you view photos, is there any wrong color on the photos?
 
Mine arrived today from Amazon US and I've been playing around with it all day. No real complaints so far, but that bright LED shining into my eyes had to go - so I covered it with black electrical tape and then a decal I made of the PHILIPS logo.

Currently I'm using the VGA and HDMI inputs. (No DisplayPort yet. Still waiting on the next line of Radeon R9s for that.) It looks like when I first turn on the monitor it automatically defaults to HDMI even if VGA was the last thing I used. This is happening when I first start booting up a computer connected by VGA. Is there a way to set the default input, or is there something else going on that makes it switch to HDMI every time?
 
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Okay, I got the monitor up and running, but it's at 30Hz. I'm trying to find that reply where you can change it to 60Hz.

But under win 7, List ALL modes, it only shows 30Hz at 4K resolution.

the other problem is, once my 2nd monitor is turn off (Sharp 60"), I lost the Philips as my main monitor, and it switch the philip as the 2nd monitor.

So what Nvidia driver ver. are you guys running?

the 3rd problem is, how come the monitor is not vertical, it's at a slight angle, don't tell me I'm the only 1 who have this problem
 
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Beast Mode said:
Have you set it to DP1.2 via the setup menu?
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I just did. That stick is not easy to use. Regardless, shouldn't the panel be vertical or did I setup something wrong? It's about a few deg. off, so it's not exactly flat.

I'll try to get away w/o an robot arm

Also, I set the LCD to Photo Mode, as I view a lot of photo, but when I'm typing on hardforum, the text looks slightly blur. What mode do you people have it at?
 
Could everyone please post your setting of your OSD

including whether you use SMart response and Smart contrast

and I do have a few questions:

1) what is the difference between using the Smart control software setting, vs. the OSD button setting?

2) in the TFT calibration settings, they have more than 1 Calibration setting, for e.g., they have:

Brightness


34

Contrast


50

Smart Image preset mode


Off

Color Temperature


User Define

Gamma


2.2

RGB


100, 99, 84


=============then they also have =======

Monitor OSD Option


Calibrated Settings
SmartUniformity mode

Brightness


58

Contrast


50

Smart Image preset mode


SmartUniformity

Color Temperature


User Define

Gamma


2.2

RGB


100, 99, 78

=============

so for those who uses TFt setting, which 1 did you guys use?
 
Happy Hopping said:
I just did. That stick is not easy to use. Regardless, shouldn't the panel be vertical or did I setup something wrong? It's about a few deg. off, so it's not exactly flat.
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I think it is meant to tilt slightly, considering your eye level is above the horizontal centerline the slight tilt makes perfect sense because it means your viewing angel is gonna be closer to the ideal.


Happy Hopping said:
I'll try to get away w/o an robot arm
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I am doing the same thing here. I was expecting to need a arm based on a lot of posts here, but everything is good using the stand even though the top of the screen is like 1½ inch above my eye level. My guess is that much depends on your height, but it all good here(I'm 6 feet and a bit).


Happy Hopping said:
Also, I set the LCD to Photo Mode, as I view a lot of photo, but when I'm typing on hardforum, the text looks slightly blur. What mode do you people have it at?
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Mine is currently in the "Off" mode with brightness and contrast both at 50 and colour temperature at 7500K. I haven't really settled for one setting by now and instead I'm adjusting as I go to see what works well, but pretty happy with that. Do note that the right settings will depend on your graphics card and the settings you have done in the PC end(driver settings and also in the application you're using).
 
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