Philips BDM4065UC - 40" 4K 60Hz monitor thread

NervousEnergy said:
Are you referencing the Samsung 40" TV from the other thread? As has been noted before there's a critical issue: DisplayPort. AFAIK, the Phillips has it and the Samsung doesn't. The Seiki has DP but I don't trust that brand at all for a purchase like this at a premium price.
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Why is DisplayPort a critical requirement? Does HDMI 2.0 have any limitations compared to DP?
 
NervousEnergy said:
Are you referencing the Samsung 40" TV from the other thread? As has been noted before there's a critical issue: DisplayPort. AFAIK, the Phillips has it and the Samsung doesn't. The Seiki has DP but I don't trust that brand at all for a purchase like this at a premium price.
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HDMI 2.0 displays 60Hz 4K 4:4:4

No DP needed
 
FYI I am now starting to see burn-in on my screen, it's only very faint but it's definitely there. Amazing consider I didn't think LCDs were even supposed to suffer from it. You get what you pay for I suppose, it's obviously a cheap and nasty panel being used :S
 
samuelmorris said:
FYI I am now starting to see burn-in on my screen, it's only very faint but it's definitely there. Amazing consider I didn't think LCDs were even supposed to suffer from it. You get what you pay for I suppose, it's obviously a cheap and nasty panel being used :S
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That sucks :(. I never had burn in on any LCDs that I owned.
I did not even know that LCDs can suffer from burn in until I bought the Philips and saw a warning about it on the screen.
 
Yeah I thought it odd that it should warn you every time you turn it on - originally I assumed it was a one off, but it's every time, so it's clearly a major issue.
Given the ghosting issue I think this is just a bit of a flawed panel that was released before really being properly tested. The danger of buying from manufacturers inexperienced in the field maybe - Philips may make plenty of TVs but you don't see many monitors from them...

Pondering what to do now, as returning it will be a huge hassle but I can't see me putting up with so many serious defects long-term.
 
samuelmorris said:
Yeah I thought it odd that it should warn you every time you turn it on - originally I assumed it was a one off, but it's every time, so it's clearly a major issue.
Given the ghosting issue I think this is just a bit of a flawed panel that was released before really being properly tested. The danger of buying from manufacturers inexperienced in the field maybe - Philips may make plenty of TVs but you don't see many monitors from them...

Pondering what to do now, as returning it will be a huge hassle but I can't see me putting up with so many serious defects long-term.
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It's best to return, it could get even worse later. Have you also had the color distortion issue?
Philips does make many monitors but I don't see many people owning one, most people buy Benq, Asus, Dell, Eizo etc.
 
Ah right, not so much with static images to be honest with you, but definitely with moving images which is what I'm referring to as ghosting. I can't say I see to much of that when the images are still but I get it very pronounced with sharp color changes. That makes flashing effects in stuff like FPS titles very unpleasant - the ghosting itself means fast movements are more blurry than on other monitors so that counts out racers. That leaves strategy titles, where the UI is going to cause burn in.
I have made a lot of effort to like this display, but to be honest, there's kind of too much wrong with it. The Dell's MST issues suck, but that's kind of AMD and nvidia's fault as after all these years, MST should work by now. Apart from that, all I can begrudge the Dell is an iffy card reader and stupidly placed USB ports.
It may only be 32" but at least I don't have to stand up and lean over the top to reach down the back for the power button, or have to stick a plushy toy in front of the power led to stop it blinding me, or have to adjust how fast I move my eyes to read text to avoid PWM interference giving me a headache. (Though, that problem is every bit as bad at 100%, contrary to common sense!)
 
wirk said:
Can you measure how high is the upper edge of the 40" screen over your desk now, what is the viewing distance and the distance of eye level from the desk? I am simulating viewing conditions with different monitor sizes by raising my current 24" and 27" to various heights and it comes that 40" would be way too high even if lowered down to touch the desk. Raising it even more woul d be unbearable for me. At this point I am concluding that most comfortable size for me would be 32" lowered for bezel almost touching the desk. In fact even now I am typing this on 24" monitor raised to simulate the height of 32" and it is very comfortable, I do not have to raise up eyes/head.
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I measure the upper edge of the screen 57.5 cm or 22.6 inches if you like the metric stuff. And by upper edge I mean the upper edge of the panel with the picture not the frame around it. My viewing distance is the same 22-23 inches when closest and most of the time more in the 25-30 inch range - when gaming I tend to sit the furthest away.
The normal rule of thumb is that ones monitor should be at eye level and using that the Philips on it's stand is arpox. 2 inches too tall for me, but really I find it is not an issue as to me - if I had it on a desk where I'd sometimes would like to look over the monitor to see what else was going on in the room then it would be too tall.

I think experimenting with your current screens can give you some idea, but the thing the 40" is big enough that you sort of use some of the space near it edges for extra stuff. It's like if you're using a big workbench then you tend to let tools lie on it next to the main work area rather than having to put the tools away all the time. Your 27" gives you some of that for some jobs like say writing emails and with the 40" it is just that there is room to do so much more. I hope this makes sense.
 
samuelmorris said:
FYI I am now starting to see burn-in on my screen, it's only very faint but it's definitely there. Amazing consider I didn't think LCDs were even supposed to suffer from it. You get what you pay for I suppose, it's obviously a cheap and nasty panel being used :S
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Did you activate Pixel Orbiting?
 
ForgedReality said:
Jesus. You guys are making me extremely nervous about this purchase. What other options are there? :\
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Seiki 40" SM40UNP (some suspect that it may use the same panel as the Philips)
Crossover 40" - Meh
Samsung 40" flat 4K TV UN40JU6500
Samsung 40" curved 4K TV UN40JU6700

There is little to no info on the Crossover yet. The Seiki and Samsungs have their own thread if you want to do more research. So far, the most positive feedback seems to be on the Samsungs. I just gone one of the curved ones yesterday myself, and it's incredible so far.

I had been hyped up about the Philips for months, but I got tired of waiting and with the info about the various issues I'm now glad that I skipped it.
 
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imyourzero said:
Seiki 40" SM40UNP (some suspect that it may use the same panel as the Philips)
Crossover 40" - Meh
Samsung 40" flat 4K TV UN40JU6500
Samsung 40" curved 4K TV UN40JU6700

There is little to no info on the Crossover yet. The Seiki and Samsungs have their own thread if you want to do more research. So far, the most positive feedback seems to be on the Samsungs. I just gone one of the curved ones yesterday myself, and it's incredible so far.

I had been hyped up about the Philips for months, but I got tired of waiting and with the info about the various issues I'm now glad that I skipped it.
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Thanks for that. Seriously thinking about canceling my Philips order and going with the UN40JU7500 as it has double the refresh rate of the 6700. I was looking at those curved 21:9 monitors before I discovered the Philips, but then, they weren't 4k.
 
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ForgedReality said:
Thanks for that. Seriously thinking about canceling my Philips order and going with the UN40JU7500 as it has double the refresh rate of the 6700. I was looking at those curved 21:9 monitors before I discovered the Philips, but then, they weren't 4k.
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That's only for TV, man. It's the same 120/240 Hz smooth motion crap that they've been sticking in TVs for years. You know, the stuff that causes the "soap opera effect." It's not a 120/240 Hz input, so your games won't be any smoother whatsoever. In fact, I think that stuff gets turned off when you enable PC mode anyway.

Don't waste your money if you're going to use it primarily as a monitor for PC use.

Also, FWIW, I've had both flat and curved 21:9 monitors. They're really nice, but I don't think I could go back at this point. The Samsung has tons more desktop real estate, and it's REALLY immersive for games.
 
imyourzero said:
That's only for TV, man. It's the same 120/240 Hz smooth motion crap that they've been sticking in TVs for years. You know, the stuff that causes the "soap opera effect." It's not a 120/240 Hz input, so your games won't be any smoother whatsoever. In fact, I think that stuff gets turned off when you enable PC mode anyway.

Don't waste your money if you're going to use it primarily as a monitor for PC use.

Also, FWIW, I've had both flat and curved 21:9 monitors. They're really nice, but I don't think I could go back at this point. The Samsung has tons more desktop real estate, and it's REALLY immersive for games.
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Alright, what kinds of games? What's the input lag like? Also, do you get 60hz with the absence of displayport?
 
Any game that I've tried so far. Input lag is very acceptable and on par with (or better than) the Philips.

You can get 60 Hz without DisplayPort over an HDMI connection, but the card has to have an HDMI 2.0 output. So far that means the GTX 960/970/980...and none of the AMD cards (yet).
 
ubernaut said:
That's amazing.

POST IT.
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Here's the full rambling response from Amazon to my inquiry about availability after I preordered mine. There is a mention of it being in stock May 1st (which I'm taking with a grain of salt). From the tone, you would think I was furious with them - but all I did was politely ask a simple question as to why it was no longer available for purchase directly through Amazon:

Hello,

I'm sorry for the delay in shipping your order. We want to provide the best shopping experience possible to our customers, and we're always interested to hear what you think about the features and services available on our website. As a customer service representative, I'm willing to help you in shipping your order sooner.

Looking into your order, I see that the "Philips BDM4065UC 40" Class 4K Monitor UHD 3840 x2160 Resolution, Speakers, USB Hub, VGA, DisplayPort, Mini DisplayPort, HDMI, MHL-HDMI" is Temporarily out of stock. I’m sorry about this delay—we certainly didn’t expect that this would happen. As you may know that availability of the item subject to changes.

Unfortunately the supply for some items will be limited and they sellout quickly. Sometimes, unexpected fluctuations in supply can add time to our original availability estimate. Though the item is out of stock, we do list the item and receive the order. Once we receive the order we will immediately contact the supplier to obtain the item. Sometimes as the case like yours shipped to failed to obtain the item.

As an online retailer, we rely heavily on our suppliers to deliver our orders to our customers and sometimes, despite all our efforts, there can really be unforeseen incidents that are beyond our control. I hope you'll understand our limitations in this regard.

I'm forwarding your comments to the appropriate managers for consideration in our Inventory department regarding this item, so that they can make arrangements to avail this item sooner and I know they'll want to read about your experience.

So I assure that we will get more items in stock on May 1, 2015. Once we get this item, We will immediately ship this item to you.

Although the shipping method is faster, it’ll still take some time to get the item. As soon as we receive more stock, we’ll ship your order and send you an e-mail to let you know.

If you’d rather cancel your order, I understand. To cancel your order, go to the URL below and click the "Need to cancel an item?" button:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/css/summary/edit.html?orderID=103-2470536-7090660

One of our aims at Amazon.com is to provide a convenient and efficient service; in this case, we haven't met that standard. I'm truly sorry, and I hope you'll give us another chance in the future.

I can understand that your experience with this order was not truly representative of the quality of service we offer. I can assure you, we will do everything we can to help make your next visit to our website more rewarding.

I hope you'll give us one more chance to prove our standard and service to win your heart.

Best regards,
Srinivasan K
 
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Just dropped my order for the Philips. :(

Seeing as I already have the desktop arm and 200x200 VESA adapter, I guess I have to order that Samsung JU6700 tonight so I can utilize it...
 
What is better about the 6700? It still uses a VA panel apparantly. Does it have better colors, or the same quality, is it more vivid?

I think it only has 21ms IL on PC mode, but upto 70+ ms in other modes. Not good for gaming.
 
shadow85 said:
What is better about the 6700? It still uses a VA panel apparantly. Does it have better colors, or the same quality, is it more vivid?

I think it only has 21ms IL on PC mode, but upto 70+ ms in other modes. Not good for gaming.
Click to expand...

It's curved, for one. Also, from a review on Amazon:

I was worried about input lag, but I can't detect even the slightest delay. I don't have any actual numbers, but that's because I didn't feel the need to find out. For those who can relate, within minutes of COD gameplay with my trusty Ballista, I had no doubts this is a fast screen. It even feels faster than my Dell 30007WFP that it replaces. Since I only have a single GTX 970, I had to play certain games at 1080P for playable frame rates. This set upscales beautifully, and doesn't incur any penalty in the way of input lag.
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shadow85 said:
What is better about the 6700? It still uses a VA panel apparantly. Does it have better colors, or the same quality, is it more vivid?

I think it only has 21ms IL on PC mode, but upto 70+ ms in other modes. Not good for gaming.
Click to expand...

The only advantage is the curve.

Samsung Disadvantages:

PWM is half of the philips (120hz vs 240hz)
Lag in PC mode is double (44ms vs ~20ms)
Contrast is lower (1:3000 vs 1:5000)
4k/60hz only with HDMI 2.0 (Rare)
Full Glossy Screen (Semigloss is preferable)
 
ritterbutzke said:
The only advantage is the curve.

Samsung Disadvantages:

PWM is half of the philips (120hz vs 240hz)
Lag in PC mode is double (44ms vs ~20ms)
Contrast is lower (1:3000 vs 1:5000)
4k/60hz only with HDMI 2.0 (Rare)
Full Glossy Screen (Semigloss is preferable)
Click to expand...

Can you post links to where the testing was done on the PWM and input lag?
 
ritterbutzke said:
The Philips info is all in the TFTCentral review.
Samsung info is in the "Samesung" thread in this forum.
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Already read the Philips review but the numbers from the Samsung are just people claiming what the numbers are but not really providing much evidence for it.
 
ritterbutzke said:
The only advantage is the curve.

Samsung Disadvantages:

PWM is half of the philips (120hz vs 240hz)
Lag in PC mode is double (44ms vs ~20ms)
Contrast is lower (1:3000 vs 1:5000)
4k/60hz only with HDMI 2.0 (Rare)
Full Glossy Screen (Semigloss is preferable)
Click to expand...

The disadvantage of the Phillips is the panel quality. The main selling point of any monitor.

This is a roll of the dice purchase at best.
 
WorldExclusive said:
The disadvantage of the Phillips is the panel quality. The main selling point of any monitor.

This is a roll of the dice purchase at best.
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Whats wrong with the panel? Its been reviewed very favourably by multiple big sites (TFTCentral, PRAD).

The Samsung has exactly 0 Reviews + the aforementioned negatives.
 
ritterbutzke said:
The only advantage is the curve.

Samsung Disadvantages:

PWM is half of the philips (120hz vs 240hz)
Lag in PC mode is double (44ms vs ~20ms)
Contrast is lower (1:3000 vs 1:5000)
4k/60hz only with HDMI 2.0 (Rare)
Full Glossy Screen (Semigloss is preferable)
Click to expand...

I'm curious as to where you found that information.
 
ritterbutzke said:
Whats wrong with the panel? Its been reviewed very favourably by multiple big sites (TFTCentral, PRAD).
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Which didn't cover many of the flaws that actual owners have found, like the color distortion issue or the burn in that some have described.

I doubt that the review sites did any long term testing. They probably reviewed it and went on to the next one, whereas owners are the ones really putting it to the test week after week. Even if the review sites did catch something now that they missed initially, who's to say that they would go back and update their review to note the flaw?

The Samsung has exactly 0 Reviews + the aforementioned negatives.
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The Samsung has been out for a very short amount of time, so you can't hold that against it. Even then, sites that only test PC monitors are not likely to test a UHDTV.

Again, if you overlook reviews from the "big sites" and concentrate on actual user experiences, you'll find that the grapes have seemingly begun to sour with the Philips while there have been few complaints with the Samsung. Additionally, several people have decided to sell or return their Philips, while exactly zero people have decided to move on from the Samsung. But again, in fairness, it hasn't been out for that long.

If you're an advocate for the Philips, that's great. I hope that you enjoy it indefinitely (or until the screen starts to burn in). But I don't think it's fair to make a list of disadvantages for the Samsung and then act like there are none for the Philips. That could be flipped around pretty easily...
 
imyourzero said:
Which didn't cover many of the flaws that actual owners have found, like the color distortion issue or the burn in that some have described.

I doubt that the review sites did any long term testing. They probably reviewed it and went on to the next one, whereas owners are the ones really putting it to the test week after week. Even if the review sites did catch something now that they missed initially, who's to say that they would go back and update their review to note the flaw?



The Samsung has been out for a very short amount of time, so you can't hold that against it. Even then, sites that only test PC monitors are not likely to test a UHDTV.

Again, if you overlook reviews from the "big sites" and concentrate on actual user experiences, you'll find that the grapes have seemingly begun to sour with the Philips while there have been few complaints with the Samsung. Additionally, several people have decided to sell or return their Philips, while exactly zero people have decided to move on from the Samsung. But again, in fairness, it hasn't been out for that long.

If you're an advocate for the Philips, that's great. I hope that you enjoy it indefinitely (or until the screen starts to burn in). But I don't think it's fair to make a list of disadvantages for the Samsung and then act like there are none for the Philips. That could be flipped around pretty easily...
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Those are the clear cut metrics we can compare these screens with. Of course there will be returns, just like the samsung will get returns, perhaps due to the 120 PWM or 44ms Lag.

The color distortion issue is a problem, but it is widespread with current VA Panels, so maybe we should wait and see if the samsung has the same.

The Burn-in has been reported by very few people, without any proof. Maybe they had a bad panel, maybe they didn't turn on "Pixel Orbiting" which is a countermeasure against burn-in. In any case its definatly not widespread.

The Samsung thread is a love-fest right now, all I am trying to do is offer facts, as to why that screen may not be ideal for desktop use. 44ms will make aiming in FPS a nightmare, and having a 40-48 inch screen 2 feet from your face flashing with 120Hz PWM will surely cause eye-strain in some people.

Neither are perfect screens, however I think the Philips has the edge right now.
 
ritterbutzke said:
Those are the clear cut metrics we can compare these screens with. Of course there will be returns, just like the samsung will get returns, perhaps due to the 120 PWM or 44ms Lag.
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Agreed, it is pretty unrealistic to assume that there won't be any returns on either display. The question is, which one will see a higher rate of returns? You and I will probably never know.

The color distortion issue is a problem, but it is widespread with current VA Panels, so maybe we should wait and see if the samsung has the same.
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Maybe. I don't think it's *that* widespread, but we will see. I've done some unofficial testing and so far haven't seen anything like what's been shown in the photos of the Philips in this thread.

The Burn-in has been reported by very few people, without any proof. Maybe they had a bad panel, maybe they didn't turn on "Pixel Orbiting" which is a countermeasure against burn-in. In any case its definatly not widespread.
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One person posted a picture of the burn in. Maybe they did have a bad panel and maybe it isn't widespread. But any modern LCD that requires a pixel orbiting feature, which was previously reserved for plasma displays, would have me questioning its quality.

The Samsung thread is a love-fest right now, all I am trying to do is offer facts, as to why that screen may not be ideal for desktop use. 44ms will make aiming in FPS a nightmare, and having a 40-48 inch screen 2 feet from your face flashing with 120Hz PWM will surely cause eye-strain in some people.
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I just got finished playing 3 first person games in PC mode and the mouse response was very precise -- far from a "nightmare." And I haven't even tried enabling Game mode, which supposedly decreases lag even more.

I think it's commendable when anyone attempts to debate using facts and reason, but I think that if you would discard your preconceived notions and actually use the Samsung for a while, you might see things differently.

Neither are perfect screens
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Agreed, although I think that the Philips has more disadvantages while you think that the Samsung does.

however I think the Philips has the edge right now.
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That's where we disagree...and that's OK. :) It's not like any of this is life-changing or world-changing stuff. It's a bunch of guys with a passion for PCs and technology discussing displays on an internet forum.
 
People expecting the samsung to be a far superior screen, are very likely going to be sadly disappointed, many of the problems that the philips has are very likely going to be present on the samsung, since it's also a TV VA panel.

Honestly going from a monitor that has known problems to a monitor for which there is little in the way of information, is not a particularly logic course of action IMO, one just needs to look at early opinions of pretty much any monitor or piece of equipment to see that there is a trend of positive opinions sliding towards negative, and going back to a more neutral territory (assuming the equipment isn't awful ofc).
We don't even need to look at other monitors to see this happening, the philips didn't came out recently, it came out more than half a year ago, and we are now starting to hear the negatives (should be said, these were known problems, and only a few people seem to be complaining, which is normal), despite being a monitor that sold very very well (OC UK says it's their best selling 4k monitor).

So really for anyone that can't live with the problems this panel has, a far better course of action would be to wait it out, and see what else is coming out, this monitor is selling well enough that there will be more 40" 4k being made/reviewed, although people shouldn't be expecting miracles, all panels have problems, and panel technologies tend to share those problems.
 
ritterbutzke said:
Whats wrong with the panel? Its been reviewed very favourably by multiple big sites (TFTCentral, PRAD).

The Samsung has exactly 0 Reviews + the aforementioned negatives.
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Start from the beginning of this thread. There are plenty of pictures showing how questionable this panel is.

Also, you're going to take reviews over customer experiences?
That's like taking gaming benchmarks over real world gaming measurements.
 
imyourzero said:
That's where we disagree...and that's OK. :) It's not like any of this is life-changing or world-changing stuff. It's a bunch of guys with a passion for PCs and technology discussing displays on an internet forum.
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Indeed :)

WorldExclusive said:
Start from the beginning of this thread. There are plenty of pictures showing how questionable this panel is.

Also, you're going to take reviews over customer experiences?
That's like taking gaming benchmarks over real world gaming measurements.
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Am I going to take the opinion of multiple professionals over a few random people who literally just received their screen? Hmm thats a tough one....

And thats on top of the hundreds of testimonials on here and sites like OCUK.

The only "questionable" aspect is the occasional color shifts, a common bug in VA screens, for example the Samsung S32D850T.
 
ritterbutzke said:
Indeed :)

Am I going to take the opinion of multiple professionals over a few random people who literally just received their screen? Hmm thats a tough one....

And thats on top of the hundreds of testimonials on here and sites like OCUK.

The only "questionable" aspect is the occasional color shifts, a common bug in VA screens, for example the Samsung S32D850T.
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I am totally with you on this - it is very much a classic Internet forum thing. I think putting the Philips down and the Samsung on a pedestal is nothing than showing the want of justifying a choice in purchase. To me there is no grounds for making the call with regards to the two screens until there is an unbiased side-by-side long term test or at the very least a similar number of reviews of the Samsung to the number of reviews of the Philips.

Also on the curve thing being an upside I think that is a personal preference. To me the curve thing isn't without downsides and only LG has shown the right solution (they make a OLED TV that can change it's shape between being flat and curved with the press of a button).
 
Few had been wondering about playing games at 1080p stretched to fill the whole screen, so I took a few pictures.

Click thumbnails to open in new tab.

Side by side close-up, camera was much closer than you would normally sit:



Here you can easily tell the difference between 4k and 1080p in font and line sharpness.

Next is a wide A-B comparison from about 60cm distance, where I would normally sit.

4k:


1080p:


My vision isn't perfect, but at this distance the lesser sharpness doesn't bother me personally at all. If a game needs more frames, I can play

happily at 1080p.

But don't take this as gospel, the camera is a cheap point'n'shoot and your standards may be higher :p
 
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