Philips BDM4065UC - 40" 4K 60Hz monitor thread

Bestio said:
Really interesting display, I just would like to know if it's really better to buy this Philips instead a 4k TV for PC monitor, expecially for gaming.
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90% of the TV's have 3-5 times more input lag and are 4:2:2 Chroma instead of 4:4:4 Chroma and without PC mode have also only 16-235 Contrast instead of 0-255 Contrast.
That's the main difference except for the built-in Tuner and Speakers and this Smart TV crap.
 
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Also among differences is that except Panasonic all the other TV vendors supply with HDMI only, no DP. In 4K case that limits to have 60Hz@4K only via HDMI 2.0 (thus to 970/980), while monitors (&panasonic's 4K TVs) can be used also with other/older gpus @60Hz.
 
FYI, I asked Philips technical support and got reply this monitor has DP1.2 Multi Stream Transport. No SST.
 
Outbreaker said:
90% of the TV's have 3-5 times more input lag and are 4:2:2 Chroma instead of 4:4:4 Chroma and without PC mode have also only 16-235 Contrast instead of 0-255 Contrast.
That's the main difference except for the built-in Tuner and Speakers and this Smart TV crap.
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Is this 90% rule really true? I mean it is true for the input lag, but for the other parameters???
 
This is a tough decision. Buy this monitor or wait for the new line of seiki 4k monitors with their 40"...
 
crb806 said:
This is a tough decision. Buy this monitor or wait for the new line of seiki 4k monitors with their 40"...
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On a safe side first reviews should be helping. Seiki promises DP1.3, HDMI 2.0, but its overal quality is a question mark since they are not established in monitors. In any case one has to think 40" @4K is only transition to 5K 21:9 curved sets.
 
wirk said:
On a safe side first reviews should be helping. Seiki promises DP1.3, HDMI 2.0, but its overal quality is a question mark since they are not established in monitors. In any case one has to think 40" @4K is only transition to 5K 21:9 curved sets.
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Definitely, those 5k displays are gonna be the holy grail for gaming and general use! :eek:
 
wirk said:
FYI, I asked Philips technical support and got reply this monitor has DP1.2 Multi Stream Transport. No SST.
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If this is indeed true, I will be a sad panda :(. I would have to settle for one of the smaller 32" IPS panels coming out soon.
 
myst4ry said:
What's wrong with a MST display?
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Nothing, there is just some bugs which looks different depending on what GPU you have. With Nvidia 900 series and newer AMD cards most of the issues are solved but there is still some that appears occasionally. It's software issues which gets solved when Nvidia and AMD update their drivers and when monitors gets updated firmware.

Some bugs which can occur:

Monitor gets no signal during boot (Solved on newer AMD / Nvidia cards).
After waking PC from sleep the image gets split in 2 parts.
Red line apppears in the middle of the monitor after wake from sleep.
The OS shows the display as two 1920x2160 panels.

They can temporary be solved by restarting PC etc.
 
My main concerns are the monitor appearing separated where the two panels meet and compatibility issues with games.
 
Armenius said:
My main concerns are the monitor appearing separated where the two panels meet and compatibility issues with games.
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What issues with games? If the monitor is shown as one panel 3840x2160 res in Windows, then games will see it that way too, there should not even be issues with older games. It's the GPU, drivers and monitor firmware that are responsible to make it appear as single display in the OS. And the problem with separated displays occurs very rarely on Nvidia 900 series cards, for me it happens 1-2 times per week max.
 
Armenius said:
My main concerns are the monitor appearing separated where the two panels meet and compatibility issues with games.
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this has never been an issue, its impossible to see the two screens(unless you have some superman xray vision)



everyone scared of MST shouldn't be, once I first had the Dell 32"4k last year it had some issues with the monitor only booting on half screen, no bios, etc, but with the last several batches of NVIDIA drivers MST has been flawless no issues.;)
 
=)(= said:
What issues with games? If the monitor is shown as one panel 3840x2160 res in Windows, then games will see it that way too, there should not even be issues with older games. It's the GPU, drivers and monitor firmware that are responsible to make it appear as single display in the OS. And the problem with separated displays occurs very rarely on Nvidia 900 series cards, for me it happens 1-2 times per week max.
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Might just be the 900 series this is fixed in. I remember reading in Anandtech Nvidia made some hardware specific changes towards improving MST compatibility

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8526/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-review/5

Meanwhile alongside the upgrade to HDMI 2.0, NVIDIA has also made one other change to their display controllers that should be of interest to multi-monitor users. With Maxwell 2, a single display controller can now drive multiple identical MST substreams on its own, rather than requiring a different display controller for each stream. This feature will be especially useful for driving tiled monitors such as many of today’s 4K monitors, which are internally a pair of identical displays driven using MST. By being able to drive both tiles off of a single display controller, NVIDIA can make better use of their 4 display controllers, allowing them to drive up to 4 such displays off of a Maxwell 2 GPU as opposed to the 2 display limitation that is inherent to Kepler GPUs. For the consumer cards we’re seeing today, the most common display I/O configuration will include 3 DisplayPorts, allowing these specific cards to drive up to 3 such 4K monitors.
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kache said:
Definitely, those 5k displays are gonna be the holy grail for gaming and general use! :eek:
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Yes, but they are at least one year away :mad:.

x3sphere said:
Might just be the 900 series this is fixed in. I remember reading in Anandtech Nvidia made some hardware specific changes towards improving MST compatibility
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8526/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-review/5
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Thank you for this information. Means at least those with 9xx cards like myself should get healthy brainwashing: MST is NOT a problem :D

In turn, if the 40" 4K is conceived with the same sperm and shares electronic hardware with the Philips 288P6LJEB 4K 60 Hz 28" monitor then surprisingly its input lag is of major concern as the review shows. Despite my previous plan I will not rush with buying it....
 
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wirk said:
In turn, if the 40" 4K is conceived with the same sperm and shares electronic hardware with the Philips 288P6LJEB 4K 60 Hz 28" monitor then surprisingly its input lag is of major concern as the review shows. Despite my previous plan I will not rush with buying it....
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I really hope it will not be so bad.

The input lag isn't so good, though: at 58 ms, it's 4 frames behind the source. You get the impression that the mouse is slow to respond, which makes the lag quite off-putting when playing games that really require good responsiveness. There was no problem with slower-paced games, though, and films and productivity are also unaffected. Overall, we wouldn't suggest the 288P6LJEB to gamers.
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A TN monitor with higher input lag then a TV or VA/IPS monitor, :eek:.

http://www.digitalversus.com/lcd-monitor/philips-288p6ljeb-p20591/test.html
 
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=)(= said:
What issues with games? If the monitor is shown as one panel 3840x2160 res in Windows, then games will see it that way too, there should not even be issues with older games. It's the GPU, drivers and monitor firmware that are responsible to make it appear as single display in the OS. And the problem with separated displays occurs very rarely on Nvidia 900 series cards, for me it happens 1-2 times per week max.
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1-2 times more than I'm willing to put up with, frankly.

Martha Stewart said:
this has never been an issue, its impossible to see the two screens(unless you have some superman xray vision)

everyone scared of MST shouldn't be, once I first had the Dell 32"4k last year it had some issues with the monitor only booting on half screen, no bios, etc, but with the last several batches of NVIDIA drivers MST has been flawless no issues.;)
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I'll read up on MST with Maxwell, but I'm not holding my breath.

=)(= said:
I really hope it will not be so bad.

A TN monitor with higher input lag then a TV or VA/IPS monitor, :eek:.

http://www.digitalversus.com/lcd-monitor/philips-288p6ljeb-p20591/test.html
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This is a real concern, since primary use of this monitor would be for gaming. Optimism says that since this is a different panel that it shouldn't creep in.

Still interested in this monitor, though. I'll be waiting for the reviews ;).
 
I will try to contact that Chinese guy and ask him about input lag and MST, he is the only one which can tell us how it really is until someone else gets the monitor and does a review.

Edit: I asked him in English, waiting for reply. If he knows English hopefully he will reply. Didn't ask about MST as I am unsure about how to check if it uses MST or not.
 
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This thing could be amazing; I was looking eagerly at the 32" 4K monitors but the immersion on this would be pretty insane and the PPI is more to my liking.

Eagerly awaiting some first-hand reviews and impressions.
 
WorldExclusive said:
The other way around. Productivity. There are much better options for gaming.
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My primary use for this monitor will be gaming :cool:. But I also do coding and spreadsheets ;). It has good response for a 4k monitor and is 40" (my ideal size for 4k), so I just want to see what the input lag will be.
 
My guesstimate, that however bad input lag (relative to common for monitors) will be, it has many chances to be at least better then for UHD TVs. And of course, i'm yet to see very thorough review for this.
 
Church said:
My guesstimate, that however bad input lag (relative to common for monitors) will be, it has many chances to be at least better then for UHD TVs. And of course, i'm yet to see very thorough review for this.
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On a VA panel modern monitor I expect the input lag to be 5-15ms which is still half of what the best gaming TV can provide on a 1080p screen with crappy blacks.

I am big on blacks being truly black, depth on darker colors so very excited about the VA panel, was never a huge fan of IPS stuff.
 
Andyk5 said:
On a VA panel modern monitor I expect the input lag to be 5-15ms which is still half of what the best gaming TV can provide on a 1080p screen with crappy blacks.

I am big on blacks being truly black, depth on darker colors so very excited about the VA panel, was never a huge fan of IPS stuff.
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I'm not holding my breath given their past record. Here are their very recent results against other UHD displays ASUS PB287Q using the same panel. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

measuredlatency.png
 
Andyk5 said:
On a VA panel modern monitor I expect the input lag to be 5-15ms which is still half of what the best gaming TV can provide on a 1080p screen with crappy blacks.

I am big on blacks being truly black, depth on darker colors so very excited about the VA panel, was never a huge fan of IPS stuff.
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2014 Bravia models have <10 ms input lag and they use high quality *VA panels with option of strobing on higher end models
 
roadczar said:
I'm not holding my breath given their past record. Here are their very recent results against other UHD displays ASUS PB287Q using the same panel. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

measuredlatency.png
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Maybe they did not turn on Game mode on these monitors, if they have one. But still, even with game mode the latency would be a bit high.

What I realized today, is that BDM4065UC has VGA connector, and they mentioned in the 288P6LJEB review that VGA is partly responsible for the high input lag. Not sure if that is true, but if it is, then we can expect a bit higher lag.

Like the Chinese guy mentioned, DVI has been there since 10 years ago, why the hell did they add analog VGA connection in 2014. It should only have had DP and HDMI, since both can be connected to DVI using adapters. I am starting to get concerned too.

List of input lags:

http://www.displaylag.com/oled-4k-2014-input-lag-results/
 
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Looks like the monitor is already released in Korea. I almost bought one from eBay if it was not for the latency concerns.
 
=)(= said:
What I realized today, is that BDM4065UC has VGA connector, and they mentioned in the 288P6LJEB review that VGA is partly responsible for the high input lag. Not sure if that is true, but if it is, then we can expect a bit higher lag.
http://www.displaylag.com/oled-4k-2014-input-lag-results/
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I dont believe VGA connection per se is the issue since Philips 242G5DJEB also has a VGA input and has zero input lag.
 
roadczar said:
I dont believe VGA connection per se is the issue since Philips 242G5DJEB also has a VGA input and has zero input lag.
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Hmm ok. I was reading something about reducing input lag:

If you use HDMI or component cables to connect your setup to your display, try using VGA instead. Display manufacturers sometimes restrict the postprocessing functions to HDMI or component video inputs, leaving the VGA input untouched. If your device doesn't have a proprietary VGA cable, you could try using an HDfury, though we haven't tested it in-house yet.
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http://www.techhive.com/article/183928/how_to_find_and_fix_input_lag_in_your_HDTV_or_monitor.html
 
Michaelius said:
2014 Bravia models have <10 ms input lag and they use high quality *VA panels with option of strobing on higher end models
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I have a 2014 40 inch Bravia with strobing my self. I do not know what the input lag is but feels considerably more than a 10ms monitor to me. Also strobing does not work well for me, at least on a console game like Destiny @30fps, maybe better if I played a 60fps pc game on it.
 
IMO 40" 4k tv/monitor is a weird size. for HT its way too small and for desk top pc its way too big.

for TV until the tv support H.265 and 2020 colour gamut its going to get superceded very shortly.
 
kache said:
Meh, he's forced to use bigger DPI apparently, which means 110PPI is too much to use comfortably. :(
Guess we'll have to wait for the 50"+. :D
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My 34UM95 is around the same PPI and I have no issues with text at the native size. I can sit like 4ft away from it and still see everything clearly.
 
genkifd said:
IMO 40" 4k tv/monitor is a weird size. for HT its way too small and for desk top pc its way too big.
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I disagree on the 40" being "way too big" for PC use; after all, the 37" Westinghouse monitor from several years ago was hugely popular here and I didn't think that it was too big. But I realize this all depends on how far you sit from it, and you did preface your statement with IMO so maybe my opinion just differs from yours.

I'll likely be all over this if it turns out to be a good monitor to game on. One thing I noticed in those pics are the dark spots in the corners. That's likely VA contrast shift (or the "viewing cone") due to the sheer size of this thing; I wonder how it would look sitting right in front of it. Better than IPS glow on a monitor this big, though. I'd rather have the corners appear darker and get gorgeous blacks and great contrast than have lighter blacks and tons of IPS glow.

kache said:
Meh, he's forced to use bigger DPI apparently, which means 110PPI is too much to use comfortably. :(
Guess we'll have to wait for the 50"+. :D
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I never mess with the DPI settings on my PCs so forgive me if this is a silly question...but what indicates that he adjusted the DPI? To me, it looks like he just made the Windows 7 icon size larger. Text still looks pretty small, but admittedly it's hard for me to tell by the pics.

If the pics are in fact showing enlarged DPI then there is little doubt in my mind that the 32" 4K monitors will be unusable for me in stock form!
 
http://www.chiphell.com/data/attachment/forum/201411/01/145732d9c320y3n1oyob30.jpg

This looks like a 24" Dell next to the Philips.. they are very similar in height when the Dell is in portrait.

What exact inch screen would be the closest fit ? It looks like a 22" would do it ( they are normally about 21.5") but perhaps its less

Iam of course thinking about eyefinity / nvsurround with two flanking monitors :)

also thats a pretty deep desk right there with it pushed far back to take in the view.. yet looking at those pics it seems you need to be at 27" - 28" (16:9 / 21:9 ) distance away to get a comfortable experience ( between 50 - 70cm) lent back in the chair it looks closer to 90 - 100 cm away or more and there would be no way of me comfortably reading text at that distance ( i have 20/20 ) of course you can lean forward and read text but given its size id be quite wary of constant head turning.. this is still 16:9 so its not like you really benefit from the eyefinity peripheral vision in the same sense as the bits your missing or turning to see are the same as the player on the other end who has a smaller 16:9 in full view.. i.e you could stand to lose a lot of games unless you sit further back .. then see my first sentence.

hmm..
 
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