Philadelphia Passes Ban on Cashless Stores; Amazon Go Plans Said to Be in Jeopardy

singe_101

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Do insurance companies lower premiums on the business if they have no cash, no drawers, etc.?

Some parking garages do not accept cash.
 

Seventyfive

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Take pictures... with the expensive smart phone you own. reload at the walmart that you 1. have in your area (not everyone does) and 2. you can easily drive to with a car you are fortunate enough to be able to afford. Furthermore it costs money to load the card and it may be convenient to use while traveling but try using as your only financial instrument when you live on $1000 a month, when loading $20 to buy groceries means paying 10% ($2.00) (520% apr if you have to do that once a week) .
If someone is living on $1000 a month they can qualify for government assistance which comes.... drumroll.... on an EBT card.
 

DukenukemX

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That's what we need to do! Burden the tax payers with even more debt from people who can't manage their finances.
Know why people with garbage credit can't get bank accounts? It's because they aren't a profit generator for the bank, and more than likely will cost the bank money. I thought everyone understood that banks provide a "free" service by using the money in your bank account to fund profit generating activities, such as mortgages and auto loans. If you don't have much balance, and are constantly over drafting and then peace out without paying your debt, then that "free" service is now costing a lot of money
A government bank would only hold onto your money and allow you to distribute it using a debt card, thus eliminating the need for private banks to provide bank accounts. The private banks can still offer saving accounts where they pay you to store your money and of course loans.
 

PantherBlitz

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So ... the people who hate on Amazon for wiping out local mom-and-pops are hating on Amazon for doing something that encourages shoppers to spend money at local mom-and-pops?
 

zkostik

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right! keeping cash an option means there's still some privacy and agency possible with private transactions. Personally I distrust the government and banks equally but at least the Feds' paper cash is mostly-anonymous once it's printed. F*ck banks and their fees and datamining. Also look what happened in India when the gov't attempted to ban cash in a cynical money-and-power-grabbing move. It takes me a lot to side with governments but yeah f*ck banks, f*ck the card processors, f*ck the credit agencies.
Privacy is pretty much dead though unless you live in some forest and live off the land or something. Any store you go they have cameras and likely software that tracks faces and such. Even if you go in to pay with cash, you will still come up on a radar. I bet you don't use internet or have a smartphone as these track the fuck out of you. All Android phones spy on you but really some of that stuff has become accepted for convenience it offers. I can understand places that don't take CC as they don't want to pay transaction fees but a place that won't take cash and only CC, that is some weird shit. I'm not sure if there's a law to prevent them from one or the other. Personally it sounds like that move is just bad for business as I think you want to be able to cater to as many customers as possible with whatever legal money they come with. FWIW, it's safer to have money in a bank than all in cash. You lose it or get mugged and you're basically out of luck. With money in a bank it's highly unlikely you can lose it due to fraud. Sure it can take them some time to investigate but I haven't heard anyone actually losing money. Just to be safe though, you sure don't want a checking in just one bank though.
 

singe_101

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There is still more privacy with cash. It's harder for Salad Hut to sell your visual data to a yoga studio than it is your real name and that it's AmEx or Chase Sapphire Reserve, etc.

Google has the data, but will they keep it since their operations are so profitable? They might hold it more tightly than Visa, selling it to health insurance companies or what have you.
 

Oldmodder

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purchase protection, possible theft, and cash back
I am in Denmark we had these things for decades.

2 years defecto warranty, without using a card or jump some form of hoops ( Check ) several months of return / regret sale option ( check )
Possible theft, yes those punks always go after smartphone and credit cards, a 28 YO punk killed a +80YO lady not long ago and went on a shopping spree with her master & visa cards,,,,,, but i am sure the people that are to inherit her will get a refund.
My mother just got her money refunded from the bank when her fracked up 17 YO grandchild stole her visa card and drained it totally as the grandchild like all in the family knew my old & sick / one leg in the grave mothers PIN #
Cash back rebates are not really done over here, same goes for coupon rebates - mail in ASO, in general you just pay what are on the price tag, maybe haggle a little if its face 2 face or wait until its on sale.

My mother getting robbed out by her own grandchild are the first time ever in 4 decades i have heard of family or friends getting robbed analog or digital.

Okay there was a acquaintance from back when i was a parasite, he broke the rule of stealing from friends which you don't do among thieves / pushers / arms dealers + what ever we was into, and for which 4-5 people have been bashing his head in every time any of us have seen him in the past couple of decades, and that will not stop.

And if my nice wasent my nice i would have kicked her ass so bad, and like the guy from my past i would do that every time i saw her, but she is a minor and family, so i have to take a big fat chill pill and disregard what is otherwise a very intrinsic reaction.
 

lcpiper

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I don't think you properly understood their decision. Why should a corporation be able to tell an American citizen they can't spend the currency of their country in a store located in their country. Last I checked it was OUR country that gave them license to even incorporate and exist in OUR country. When Amazon starts minting their own currency and protects its value with a military and court system of their own, then they can dictate what form of payment is or is not acceptable to them. If you think this is asking too much then perhaps it's your position that is extreme and not those representing Philadelphia.

Why should the government tell a business that they can't go cashless?

It really does work both ways. Why not let the business open and if they stay in business fine, if they don't get enough customers, the people have spoken.
 

lcpiper

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I haven't used cash voluntarily in probably 25 years.

Everything I buy, even if it's just a pack of gum gets put on a card.

Philosphically I like the untraceable nature of cash, but using cash is just too big of an inconvenience. I hate getting change.

I wish someone would pass a law already making it illegalt to collect data on consumers based on how they make payments.

In fact, I'd like all data collection to be illegal.

I don't think I fall anywhere near your extreme of "all data collection being illegal", but it's your opinion, I don't have to agree with it and I don't need to try and suppress it.

But we are very much in common on using the CC. I also put everything on mine, even bill-pay goes to the card. I get 2.5% cash back on everything so I'm in. May not sound like so much but it does add up.
 

Olle P

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From a Swedish perspective I'd support a law like this, provided it's accompanied with matching banking laws.
The use of cash is extremely low, and an increasing portion of stores don't accept any form of cash.
If you go to the bank and want to insert cash (>$50) to boost your account you better be sure to have a good explanation where you got it. (Laws against money laundring require banks to be very inquisitive.)
Banks here do as much as they legally can to avoid handling cash.

Don't forget about processing fee's, which are going up yearly ...
Sure. The fees for handling cash are horrendous compared to using card. If you want to pay your bills in cash the fee is about $10 per bill.
 

Jagger100

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Brought to you by the same people that banned bulletproof glass in diverse areas of Philly.

But in all seriousness cashless is a terrible idea-vis a-vis privacy.
If they aren't doing already, your cash taking store is going to implement facial recognition and pair that with your purchases and sell the info.
 

Patton187

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If Philadelphia wants to drive away modern businesses.. let them. In 5 or 10 years time they look around and wonder why no big commerce is coming their way, will they even realize it's because of policies like this? Policies like this are a great way to ensure the poor and stupid STAY poor and stupid. If there was that big of a need for cash only stores, let the free market decide. Mom and pop store can cater to those that can only count when the money is in their hand and Amazon can cater to those who understand how a debit or credit card works. Win/Win.

It's 2019 -- we are only going to get more digital and more connected, why let the lowest common denominator of laziness or ignorance set the bar for what everyone else is allowed to do?
It's the current year! Give into the Orwellian goatfuck of having a perfect audit trail of your finances readily available to uncle Sam.
 

lcpiper

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It's the current year! Give into the Orwellian goatfuck of having a perfect audit trail of your finances readily available to uncle Sam.
It's no where near a perfect audit trail of my finances. I put almost everything on my CC, and I pay between $1,500 to as much a $6,000 a month to clear my balance every month. My wife and I make over $140,000 a year. Uncle SAM takes his cut in taxes, so round that off to, we get to keep about $85K a year. So there is a whole lot of my finances that never touch my CC.

Let's say the CC is a record of 53% of my finances. And what I put on my CC, where I spend my money for retail and utilities, that's no where near as important as the remaining 47% which is my savings and investments.

George Orwell can take a leap off my dick. I'm pretty damned sure that I know better about what I'm doing for myself, and what I allow others to do to me.
 

Olle P

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Why should the government tell a business that they can't go cashless?
It really does work both ways. ... if they don't get enough customers, the people have spoken.
In my mind it's a matter of discrimination.
You could just as well have businesses that won't sell to blind people, or those in wheel chairs, or Jews, or Democrats, or...
You think that's fine too?
 

NickJames

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In my mind it's a matter of discrimination.
You could just as well have businesses that won't sell to blind people, or those in wheel chairs, or Jews, or Democrats, or...
You think that's fine too?
Except anyone can have a credit card. That's like saying the government discriminates citizens from driving if they don't have a license..
 

Patton187

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In my mind it's a matter of discrimination.
You could just as well have businesses that won't sell to blind people, or those in wheel chairs, or Jews, or Democrats, or...
You think that's fine too?
Sure? If they want to go broke who am I to stop tgem?
 

lcpiper

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In my mind it's a matter of discrimination.
You could just as well have businesses that won't sell to blind people, or those in wheel chairs, or Jews, or Democrats, or...
You think that's fine too?

Besides the fact that we already have laws to prevent those kinds of discrimination, I'd remind you "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service" Some places won't take a check, it has nothing to do with race, creed, or color, it's about business and it's legal.

My opposition and view is not so much based on one being better than the other. I posed my question, flipping the script, to get people to realize that they are signing up for. This is government getting involved in what they don't need to be involved in. This is why the government keeps growing, why it costs more and more. Because we allow and ask them to do so.

And on a separate note we have people complain about robots replacing people, jobs going away. But others tell us that this frees people to do better jobs, to do better for themselves. These people are now free to help push out. That it grows the economy, some will be free or encouraged to turn their hobby into an actual business, etc.

In this case, what is the government really complaining about? Is it the cashless part, or that it will turn retail outlets into large shopping kiosks like those vending machines in the airports that sell iPods and earbuds?
A Best Buy that is nothing more than a giant vending machine that takes CC only?

What would people do if they couldn't get a job working at Best Buy or Walmart?
 
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Zareek

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Wow, a lot of strong opinions here. Just a note to those who insinuated my views were that of a right wing nut conservative. YOU ARE DEAD WRONG! I know what it is to truly struggle. I've been there and done that. I was born into a broke ass family, raised by my grandmother because my real mother is fruit loops. I've never been given a thing and had to work hard to get where I am now. If you think having a debit card is something for the wealthy, you've been watching too much CNN. Maybe the banks where you come from are indecent because it takes almost nothing to open a basic checking account here. $25 is typically the minimum to open an account and you can make that by mowing a lawn for an hour. My point is all you need to do is put in a little work. Don't even bother pretending that someone disabled and living off SSI can't afford $25 to open an account. I know several people who are and while they aren't living it up, they make ends meet just fine. And yes, they too have debit cards!
 

Olle P

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Except anyone can have a credit card. ...
No not everybody can, for various legal reasons.
And amongst those that legally can have a card there are those that are uncapable of understanding/using it correctly.

Besides the fact that we already have laws to prevent those kinds of discrimination, ...
So why not prevent this kind?

Sure? If they want to go broke who am I to stop tgem?
You say it's a business decision, but that's not exactly true:
We're discussing discrimination against a minority that also (typically) are the most financially vulnerable.
I expect most individual vendors to make no loss at all by refusing cash, since the minor loss in sales will be covered by the cost reductions. (Much like it's often more expensive to make the shop accessible for wheel chairs than the profits gained from customers riding chairs.)
Assume then that 100% of vendors think it's a good idea to not accept cash. Where would those that only have cash go shopping? ... and at what cost?
 

NickJames

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No not everybody can, for various legal reasons.
And amongst those that legally can have a card there are those that are uncapable of understanding/using it correctly.
Those people lost their right to have a credit card, so technically everyone can have a credit card but not everyone is fit to use one and that's a personal problem.
 

lcpiper

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..................So why not prevent this kind?
Because it's not actually discrimination.

EDITED: BTW, a really dislike the word "prevent" because laws do not prevent anything. Laws punish people who violate them, but they do not prevent. People that think that laws prevent things are fooling themselves.
 
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vegeta535

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I honestly don't understand the hate. ItIist company choice to accept what ever the payment. If you don't agree then take your cash some place else. You don't need to go to Amazon for convince stuff. There is literally a convince store on every corner.
 
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