Philadelphia Passes Ban on Cashless Stores; Amazon Go Plans Said to Be in Jeopardy

[Megalith]

Amazon plans to open a chain of cashierless convenience stores across the country, but don’t expect them in Philadelphia: the city has just signed off on legislation banning cashless stores. While the convenience of technology has convinced many retailers to shift to credit cards and mobile payments only, Philly’s leaders opted for the opposite, citing their 26-percent poverty rate and poor consumers, some of whom do not even have bank accounts.

Nearly 6 percent of residents in the Philadelphia region do not have access to credit or bank accounts in 2017 and roughly 22 percent were considered “underbanked,” according to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. Amazon warned Philadelphia officials behind closed doors that a ban on cashless stores would force it to reconsider its potential plans for Amazon Go stores in Philadelphia. Emails obtained by the Inquirer showed that the web giant also lobbied city officials to try to carve itself out of the cash requirement.

 

[DukenukemX]

Good, we don't want companies to dictate what people are allowed to buy with their money.

 

[Snishsnoosh]

Brought to you by the same people that banned bulletproof glass in diverse areas of Philly.

But in all seriousness cashless is a terrible idea-vis a-vis privacy.

 

[coynatha]

Why don't they just make poverty illegal. Problem solved! More laws won't change anything, just going to leave Philly further behind and make it even more poor.

 

[Zareek]

Good, we don't want companies to dictate what people are allowed to buy with their money.

How about BAD, we don't want municipalities telling us how we are allowed to spend our money and in what form. Next thing they will do is ban cars that cost more than $30K because the poor who live in the city can't afford them! Let's artificially limit society to the lowest common denominator so no one feels bad. Excuse me while I go puke! Just another example of how extremist liberals are just as bad as the extremist conservatives!

 

[Oldmodder]

I always do cash, and if i one day cant do that, the i think its time to pull the plug.

 

[LurkerLito]

Good, I still like to use cash whenever possible when I buy locally and mainly use my CC online. If I have to always use my CC to buy crap locally, I just will stop buying locally and buy everything online. Cashless businesses that have signs that read "Cash not accepted here" is the same as putting up one that reads "Don't bother shopping here and just shop online" in my eyes.

 

[trparky]

Zareek, pull out a dollar bill out of your wallet. Note the phrase "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private".

 

[Madoc]

Note to self: Stay out of Philly.
Note to companies: get out of Philly.
Note to the residents of Philly: please stay in Philly.

 

[dandirk]

Good, I still like to use cash whenever possible when I buy locally and mainly use my CC online. If I have to always use my CC to buy crap locally, I just will stop buying locally and buy everything online. Cashless businesses that have signs that read "Cash not accepted here" is the same as putting up one that reads "Don't bother shopping here and just shop online" in my eyes.

Curious... Why?

 

[timberwolf]

Bet those broke-ass fuckers all have smartphones though,,,

 

[$trapped]

How about BAD, we don't want municipalities telling us how we are allowed to spend our money and in what form.

I don't think you properly understood their decision. Why should a corporation be able to tell an American citizen they can't spend the currency of their country in a store located in their country. Last I checked it was OUR country that gave them license to even incorporate and exist in OUR country. When Amazon starts minting their own currency and protects its value with a military and court system of their own, then they can dictate what form of payment is or is not acceptable to them. If you think this is asking too much then perhaps it's your position that is extreme and not those representing Philadelphia.

 

[dR.Jester]

Any Apple stores in Philly? IIRC they don't take cash right?

 

[$trapped]

Any Apple stores in Philly? IIRC they don't take cash right?

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7098054

 

[copy_run_start]

How about BAD, we don't want municipalities telling us how we are allowed to spend our money and in what form. Next thing they will do is ban cars that cost more than $30K because the poor who live in the city can't afford them! Let's artificially limit society to the lowest common denominator so no one feels bad. Excuse me while I go puke! Just another example of how extremist liberals are just as bad as the extremist conservatives!

Yeah I agree, I am hoping for the day I walk into an Amazon store and they only accept "Amazon Bux", which I can buy in denominations of 100USD. Good thing I only needed a $3 box of tissues.

 

[Deleted member 88227]

Don't have a credit card/debit card then don't go to a place that doesn't offer cash sales.

How hard is that, that it requires a law to ban such establishments from even existing in the first place?

Wow.

 

[Cyraxx]

Zareek, pull out a dollar bill out of your wallet. Note the phrase "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private".

Pull out that dollar bill again.

Does it say: "You must accept debt from everyone, public and private"?


The fact is - that dollar still in fact does pay for even this debt. You simply must deposit it into your banking account and utilize their app via a debit card. Don't want to do that? Then no debt will be lent to you.

 

[Krazy925]

This is dumb.

Cash is cool-- but don't let the government intervene.

Business should dictate this, not some stupid law.

I prefer cashless, but I'm cool with cash only places too.

If you don't like one-- vote with your wallet.

 

[[21CW]killerofall]

Zareek, pull out a dollar bill out of your wallet. Note the phrase "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private".

Business are under no requirement to accept cash in exchange of goods and services as those are not considered "debts." You are not incurring a debt when you want to go buy something from a store.

“Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise.” The U.S. Department of the Treasury

 

[DocNo]

Don't have a credit card/debit card then don't go to a place that doesn't offer cash sales.

How hard is that, that it requires a law to ban such establishments from even existing in the first place?

It's not hard. What is required are "crises" for politicians to justify their existence with. God forbid people think for themselves. Don't want to pay without cash? Just don't go to Amazon's stores. I'm sure plenty of other stores will be more than happy to take cash and advertise the fact.

Fucking totalitarian assholes.

 

[PeaKr]

Don't forget about processing fee's, which are going up yearly along with the price of items you buy to cover that fee.

 

[Oldmodder]

Not many cash only places here, and as far as i know no CC or mobile pay only places either.
ATM the fools here are talking about doing away with the health card you flash at your doctor or hospital and let them access your info and save info on you ( cuz Danes are very logged people )
Anyways they now want to put that on the phone, if they do that they better buy me a phone and pay for a plan cuz officially i don't have a phone, and officially i cant wait for the day when i again don't have to carry that BS device in my pocket.

My CC are solely for shopping online, and that most often not in my country, cuz what i buy i can often don't get here, or i just to it in protest to help ruin my country which seem to be the agenda.
If it wasent for my physical location in this little country, and the fact i cant afford to drive too much in my tiny car, then i would go to Germany or Sweden to buy my every day things like gasoline and food too, just to be part of the current trend as i see it.

 

[mwallek]

Yes, cashless stores should be banned. Cash will go by the wayside soon enough if current influences have their way, and that will be a sad day for the overpopulated planet ruled by those few with all the hard assets.

 

[travisty]

I know what Phily is trying to do but it's the wrong approach.

What Philly needs to do it have a way for the who do not have a bank account to have one - force the banks to give anyone that asks for it a bank accounts and a debit card. Money gets deposited and debit card can be used. No money? Debit card won't work. With everything electronic in the banks already it's not like it costs the banks anything.

 

[dangerouseddy]

we need to go cashless asap so banks can bleed us dry with transaction fees and negative interest, cash obviously makes it hard for them to do that atm.

 

[LurkerLito]

Curious... Why?

It's just how I like to do things. It forces me to think about what I am buying and not buy anything unnecessary because I have a limited amount of cash in my wallet when I am out shopping.

 

[Karl_in_Chicago]

Brought to you by the same people that banned bulletproof glass in diverse areas of Philly.

But in all seriousness cashless is a terrible idea-vis a-vis privacy.

Also brought to you by the same city that actually bombed their own citizens.
Dumb law. I'm a guy that pays pretty much everything by CC but I think it should be up to the retailers and their (potential) customers to decide how they want to conduct their business. Want to be a cash only business? Fine by me. Want to be a cashless biz? Also fine. In the end the customer is still left with a choice of how much that does or doesn't bother them and whether they wish to do business there.

 

[seanreisk]

Don't forget about processing fee's, which are going up yearly along with the price of items you buy to cover that fee.

View attachment 147054

This image seems to imply that I will get the best price on gas if I pay with diesel. How, I ask you, are the poor supposed to pay with diesel?

 

[DedEmbryonicCe11]

Bet those broke-ass fuckers all have smartphones though,,,

They would be even more broke if they didn't have a cellphone number to put on their job applications. Though nice try trying to insinuate the situation is entirely their own fault.

 

[Dead Parrot]

This image seems to imply that I will get the best price on gas if I pay with diesel. How, I ask you, are the poor supposed to pay with diesel?

Siphon it out of the Amazon delivery trucks?

I might not mind cashless so much except for the habit the CC companies have of selling my purchasing history. I don't really want FB/Google/Amazon/etc to know every time I eat a fast food taco.

 

[cyclone3d]

I know what Phily is trying to do but it's the wrong approach.

What Philly needs to do it have a way for the who do not have a bank account to have one - force the banks to give anyone that asks for it a bank accounts and a debit card. Money gets deposited and debit card can be used. No money? Debit card won't work. With everything electronic in the banks already it's not like it costs the banks anything.

Until these people that normally wouldn't have a debit card in the first place spend everything in their account and then claim that their card was stolen.

And having a pin doesn't help either because you can just run a debit card as credit if you don't know the pin or want to run it as credit instead of debit.. a.k.a.. want to make it look like your card was stolen so the bank will give you your "stolen" money back.

 

[DukenukemX]

How about BAD, we don't want municipalities telling us how we are allowed to spend our money and in what form. Next thing they will do is ban cars that cost more than $30K because the poor who live in the city can't afford them! Let's artificially limit society to the lowest common denominator so no one feels bad. Excuse me while I go puke! Just another example of how extremist liberals are just as bad as the extremist conservatives!

The problem you're missing is that banks can decide who gets what payment, which means they can leverage what they do and don't support. Remember the whole Patreon issue where they took people off their platform cause it didn't match their ideologies?

Of course a good solution is to have the government make a digital version of money so that we can make transactions without the need of private businesses. Money that can't be tracked.

 

[travisty]

Until these people that normally wouldn't have a debit card in the first place spend everything in their account and then claim that their card was stolen.

And having a pin doesn't help either because you can just run a debit card as credit if you don't know the pin or want to run it as credit instead of debit.. a.k.a.. want to make it look like your card was stolen so the bank will give you your "stolen" money back.

Which is why banks have fraud units. It's not hard for an AI to determine this kind of behavior. Have in the law that it's a punishable offense. Problem solved either through fine or, in the case of the really poor and dumb, jail

 

[NattyKathy]

Bet those broke-ass fuckers all have smartphones though,,,

I think I understand the subtext... but considering that one can buy a no-contract smartphone at the convenience store for like $20-$40 cash with another $10-40/mo for a basic plan, i don't think there's anything contradictory about being broke/poor and also having a smartphone. Even an iPhone can be had for like $100 or less from the no-contract carriers.

 

[NattyKathy]

Until these people that normally wouldn't have a debit card in the first place spend everything in their account and then claim that their card was stolen.

And having a pin doesn't help either because you can just run a debit card as credit if you don't know the pin or want to run it as credit instead of debit.. a.k.a.. want to make it look like your card was stolen so the bank will give you your "stolen" money back.

that theory sounds wildly speculative and conspiratorial but ok lol

 

[NattyKathy]

we need to go cashless asap so banks can bleed us dry with transaction fees and negative interest, cash obviously makes it hard for them to do that atm.

right! keeping cash an option means there's still some privacy and agency possible with private transactions. Personally I distrust the government and banks equally but at least the Feds' paper cash is mostly-anonymous once it's printed. F*ck banks and their fees and datamining. Also look what happened in India when the gov't attempted to ban cash in a cynical money-and-power-grabbing move. It takes me a lot to side with governments but yeah f*ck banks, f*ck the card processors, f*ck the credit agencies.

 

[SvenBent]

And having a pin doesn't help either because you can just run a debit card as credit if you don't know the pin or want to run it as credit instead of debit.. a.k.a.. want to make it look like your card was stolen so the bank will give you your "stolen" money back.

This is not at technical issue. but an USA being USA issue

 

[theBrownLlama]

fyi card processing fees just went UP
and cash is still legal tender. so no way to ban cash by law, for a physical store.
.

 

[Delicieuxz]

How about BAD, we don't want municipalities telling us how we are allowed to spend our money and in what form. Next thing they will do is ban cars that cost more than $30K because the poor who live in the city can't afford them! Let's artificially limit society to the lowest common denominator so no one feels bad. Excuse me while I go puke! Just another example of how extremist liberals are just as bad as the extremist conservatives!

Uh, Philadelphia did the opposite of telling people how they can spend their money and in what form: They ensured that people will be able to spend their money anywhere in the city and in any form. A no-cash store would be dictating how people are allowed to spend their money and in what form.

You're literally advocating for telling people how they are allowed to spend their money and in what form, while pretending to be angry about the idea of telling people how they're allowed to spend their money and in what form.

If you're against telling people how they may spend their money and in what form, you ought to be supportive of Philadelphia's decision.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I haven't used cash voluntarily in probably 25 years.

Everything I buy, even if it's just a pack of gum gets put on a card.

Philosphically I like the untraceable nature of cash, but using cash is just too big of an inconvenience. I hate getting change.

I wish someone would pass a law already making it illegalt to collect data on consumers based on how they make payments.

In fact, I'd like all data collection to be illegal.