Pennsylvania Proposes $50M Fine Against Uber

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You know what you get for operating a business in a state without approval? A $50 million fine if Pennsylvania has it's way.

Uber’s tendency to begin operations now and ask for permission later seems to have backfired in a big way in Pennsylvania, with two judges for the state’s taxi and bus regulatory agency recommending a $50 million fine against the ride-hailing company for operating without first getting the proper state approval.
 
“There is no question that Uber’s conduct in the litigation of this complaint has been obstructive,” the judges wrote in their recommendation.
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The State is literally describing only themselves here. Interjecting themselves into a peaceful voluntary market.
 
Uber needs to be law-abiding and follow normal procedure to gain approval to launch their business.
 
NickJames said:
And by that you mean pay off the right people?
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Nope.

Abide by the law like everyone else: follow the correct processes and procedures, and get clearance / approval like everyone else.


This is the United States, not Russia/China/NK.
 
atp1916 said:
Nope.

Abide by the law like everyone else: follow the correct processes and procedures, and get clearance / approval like everyone else.


This is the FairyTale Land, not Russia/China/NK.
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We're talking about America, not that Fairy World that you come from man.
 
NickJames said:
And by that you mean pay off the right people?
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Yes. It's not about the regulations, it's about the money.

Many of these state laws are out of date, and it's arguable that they where never written to apply to a company like Uber, but that doesn't matter. The existing companies are already paying off the politicians through donations and other means of "support", and they can't let an upstart like Uber under cut their prices by not paying up too.
 
Transportation companies need to pay their fair share. Period. They put the majority of the wear & tear on our roadways. They need to help pay for the upkeep of them. To not do so is criminal.
 
ymer said:
We're talking about America, not that Fairy World that you come from man.
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And in the US, we have laws that people and companies need to abide by. Even if you don't agree with them. That's all this case is about. They didn't follow the law, they get punished. If Uber wants to change the law, go for it. Try it.

This isn't about if they SHOULD be able to. It's if the CAN do it with the current laws. Which, apparently in Pennsylvania, they cannot just freely operate. They need the right paperwork, applications, etc..
 
tikiman2012 said:
Transportation companies need to pay their fair share. Period. They put the majority of the wear & tear on our roadways. They need to help pay for the upkeep of them. To not do so is criminal.
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That's completely not true. Taxi/car services are irrelevant when it comes to road wear.

The entirety of transportation companies only exist because the other citizens need them to.
 
tikiman2012 said:
Transportation companies need to pay their fair share. Period. They put the majority of the wear & tear on our roadways. They need to help pay for the upkeep of them. To not do so is criminal.
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They already pay tax for road care every time they fill up their gas tank. :rolleyes: Everyone does.

The state foolishly spending that money on other things is the states fault.
 
Ur_Mom said:
And in the US, we have laws that people and companies need to abide by. Even if you don't agree with them. That's all this case is about. They didn't follow the law, they get punished. If Uber wants to change the law, go for it. Try it.

This isn't about if they SHOULD be able to. It's if the CAN do it with the current laws. Which, apparently in Pennsylvania, they cannot just freely operate. They need the right paperwork, applications, etc..
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So...... they should hurry up to bribe the correct people to pass the correct laws.
 
nutzo said:
Yes. It's not about the regulations, it's about the money.

Many of these state laws are out of date, and it's arguable that they where never written to apply to a company like Uber, but that doesn't matter. The existing companies are already paying off the politicians through donations and other means of "support", and they can't let an upstart like Uber under cut their prices by not paying up too.
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Uber has more than enough money to lobby the right politicians to try to get these laws changed. Their issue is that they don't want to do that. They want to defy the law and then try to motivate a grass roots movement to get those laws changed. When you're a fairly large corporation you've gone beyond being impetuous and should be using your lawyers and lobbyists to make the changes, not defy the law and stick your tongue out at lawmakers. That shit is only amusing when you're a small outfit.

To be blunt, many of the laws are in place for a reason ... to protect the customer. Just like safety regulations for airlines, medical licenses, and so forth ... business laws exist to track taxes that need to be paid and ensure that the public is safe. It doesn't always work due to corruption but that's the intent. Uber is ignoring the safety provisions in order to try and "stick it to the man".
 
This seems to be the MO for all these nouveaux internet companies, it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Maybe the internet is the new "old west".

Regardless, each state and city are entitled to have their own laws (the backbone of the United States) and to assume as a company that they (Uber) can just shirk the laws at their pleasure is short sighted to say the least. If there was no app, then all of the drivers ("employees") of Uber wouldn't be able to connect with the passengers looking for a ride easily. The claim by Uber that they're not a transportation provider is laughable. If Uber can prove that such a marketplace would exist without their software, then I'll be impressed.
 
Someone needs to come up with a decentralized ride sharing program. Something like bitcoin, but for transportation.
 
tikiman2012 said:
Transportation companies need to pay their fair share. Period. They put the majority of the wear & tear on our roadways. They need to help pay for the upkeep of them. To not do so is criminal.
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PA wise that's what the gas tax is for. What I would consider to be criminal is double taxing.
 
pothb said:
So...... they should hurry up to bribe the correct people to pass the correct laws.
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Yes. That's how the political system works currently. And the technical term is "lobbying", not bribing.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Yes. That's how the political system works currently. And the technical term is "lobbying", not bribing.
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thats how everything works now adays, money is power. shortcuts are nothing new as long as someone has the money thinks can get done
 
FndTheRver said:
This seems to be the MO for all these nouveaux internet companies, it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Maybe the internet is the new "old west".

Regardless, each state and city are entitled to have their own laws (the backbone of the United States) and to assume as a company that they (Uber) can just shirk the laws at their pleasure is short sighted to say the least. If there was no app, then all of the drivers ("employees") of Uber wouldn't be able to connect with the passengers looking for a ride easily. The claim by Uber that they're not a transportation provider is laughable. If Uber can prove that such a marketplace would exist without their software, then I'll be impressed.
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What about phone companies then? Taxi transportation marketplace would not have existed without them...
 
HydroBudz said:
They already pay tax for road care every time they fill up their gas tank. :rolleyes: Everyone does.

The state foolishly spending that money on other things is the states fault.
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Unless they are driving electric cars.
With electric cars they not only don't pay fuel taxes, but they purchase price is heavily subsidized by the taxpayers.
 
The gasoline tax per gallon is higher than the profits that go to the oil companies for the product you buy from them.

Remember that the next time someone demonizes the oil companies.
 
haste. said:
What about phone companies then? Taxi transportation marketplace would not have existed without them...
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Don't taxis just drive around looking for passengers? Taxis are easily identifiable (bright yellow/green/blue/etc...) and have light up signs. I wouldn't quite call the pink moustache or small uber logo in the corner of the windshield as easily identifiable.
 
tikiman2012 said:
Transportation companies need to pay their fair share. Period. They put the majority of the wear & tear on our roadways. They need to help pay for the upkeep of them. To not do so is criminal.
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The majority? Really? Not the semis that outweigh a taxi by 10fold and out number taxis by probably 100fold.

And CRIMINAL? Really? Sigh. This is why we have more people in jail than any other country... thinkers like this ^^^
 
aardvark sandwich said:
The gasoline tax per gallon is higher than the profits that go to the oil companies for the product you buy from them.

Remember that the next time someone demonizes the oil companies.
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I'm assuming you're only including direct sales and not all the write-offs and benefits the oil companies receive through other forms of revenue.

Nope, still going to demonize them.
 
It's nice to see a northern state (even if it is one filled with total hicks that drive huge pickup trucks in the backwards, rural areas) start to bring down the hammer on this illegal Uber stuff that keeps happening.
 
aardvark sandwich said:
The gasoline tax per gallon is higher than the profits that go to the oil companies for the product you buy from them.

Remember that the next time someone demonizes the oil companies.
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Uh no. For 2006, the fastest year I could get the data for (and the gas tax hasn't changed since then), total state and federal revenues from gas taxes totaled $37B. Exxon Mobile alone made $39.5B in profit that year.

Gas taxes don't cover transportation infrastructure costs. From the Tax Foundation, a fairly conservative think tank:

Nationwide in 2011, highway user fees and user taxes made up just 50.4 percent of state and local expenses on roads. State and local governments spent $153.0 billion on highway, road, and street expenses but raised only $77.1 billion in user fees and user taxes ($12.7 billion in tolls and user fees, $41.2 billion in fuel taxes, and $23.2 billion in vehicle license taxes).
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TwistedAegis said:
Uh no. For 2006, the fastest year I could get the data for (and the gas tax hasn't changed since then), total state and federal revenues from gas taxes totaled $37B. Exxon Mobile alone made $39.5B in profit that year.
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Also worth noting that PA is planning to raise the gas tax again this/next year along with with the sales tax from 6% to 7.5% (7 to 8.5% in Allegheny county/Pittsburgh since politicians there are money hungry f-sticks). So glad I left.
 
TwistedAegis said:
Uh no. For 2006, the fastest year I could get the data for (and the gas tax hasn't changed since then), total state and federal revenues from gas taxes totaled $37B. Exxon Mobile alone made $39.5B in profit that year.

Gas taxes don't cover transportation infrastructure costs. From the Tax Foundation, a fairly conservative think tank:
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I can't find my original source.

This basically says it could be either one.
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/04/gasoline-tax-profits/
 
FndTheRver said:
Don't taxis just drive around looking for passengers? Taxis are easily identifiable (bright yellow/green/blue/etc...) and have light up signs. I wouldn't quite call the pink moustache or small uber logo in the corner of the windshield as easily identifiable.
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I immediately responded "besides major cities" - so 95% of drivers rely on telecommunication for fares. I get that someone that hasn't lived outside of a tiny shell wouldn't understand that! ;)
 
aardvark sandwich said:
This basically says it could be either one.
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They were focusing on gasoline only profits though when they came to that conclusion which is a pointless distinction when talking about oil company profits in general. All in all they make huge amounts of money, quite a bit of which they get for free from the govt. either directly or indirectly, and have incredible influence on our govt.

There is absolutely no reason to feel bad for them.

Quite frankly even if the govt. was taxing them such that tax revenue was several times the oil companies profit margins there would still be no reason to feel sorry for oil companies. The tax money is, after all, being spent on road repair as well as expansion and the money ends up back in the economy via road repair company profits and employee's wages.

Road repair/expansion isn't something that is optional and if it wasn't being paid for in part by the gas tax it'd have to be paid for by higher federal and/or state taxes and/or tolls of various sorts.
 
Property seizures by cops are a nationwide problem right now and are the result of a different set of problems (difficulty of funding police via taxes alone + corrupt cops), nothing about is particular to Pennsylvania.
 
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