PC versus Mac

heatlesssun

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"Hipster Mac fanboy". I like it. It's catchy. Maybe I'll get it engraved on my Zune.

If you do pictures please!:D

How would you propose to make money on Apple products if you don't own any? You'd have just as difficult a time making money with Windows if all you used was Linux, don't you think?

Either you'd be reselling them or you'd be developing for them. Both would require first owning them. Or is there an alternative I've not considered?

I made my first money in computers BEFORE I ever bought or owned one. Taught my self BASIC, WordPerfect, etc. first on the Apple II and then IBM PCs at libraries and schools. I actually by VERY little Microsoft branded technology. Keyboards, mice, my Zunes, Zune Pass, the copies of Windows that have come with my tablets, don't have an Xbox, that's about it for the last ten years. I've gotten my Microsoft software and tools from work forever now, and the reatil value of that stuff is FAR in excess of anything I've bought from Microsoft.

So before I spend any money on Apple products there would have to be a for REAL money making situation that would have to more than pay for itself or it would need to be something I need to do for my carrer. There's still plenty of money and oppotunity in business software development for the forseeable future with Microsoft tools. I just don't see the time and money investing in any Apple tech as paying off for me.
 

WAKASHIZuMa

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"Hipster Mac fanboy". I like it. It's catchy. Maybe I'll get it engraved on my Zune.


I actually see Creative's players fairly often. I don't know what market share their players occupy though and have no idea whether they're as popular/less popular/more popular than the Zune.


I don't think you can even grasp how ironic it is that you'd say this in response to the person you've quoted. The irony here is dripping.


How would you propose to make money on Apple products if you don't own any? You'd have just as difficult a time making money with Windows if all you used was Linux, don't you think?

Either you'd be reselling them or you'd be developing for them. Both would require first owning them. Or is there an alternative I've not considered?

I know the poster I replied to is a pro PC user and hence I told him its useless to debate choice with a pro mac guy. In Apple's way of doing things choice doesnt exist and it is prohibited
 

WAKASHIZuMa

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If you do pictures please!:D



I made my first money in computers BEFORE I ever bought or owned one. Taught my self BASIC, WordPerfect, etc. first on the Apple II and then IBM PCs at libraries and schools. I actually by VERY little Microsoft branded technology. Keyboards, mice, my Zunes, Zune Pass, the copies of Windows that have come with my tablets, don't have an Xbox, that's about it for the last ten years. I've gotten my Microsoft software and tools from work forever now, and the reatil value of that stuff is FAR in excess of anything I've bought from Microsoft.

So before I spend any money on Apple products there would have to be a for REAL money making situation that would have to more than pay for itself or it would need to be something I need to do for my carrer. There's still plenty of money and oppotunity in business software development for the forseeable future with Microsoft tools. I just don't see the time and money investing in any Apple tech as paying off for me.

See you dont get it. Apple stuff has magic
 

WAKASHIZuMa

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No edit button so I have to post another one

It's funny how phide is upset over the Microsoft ads. Not long ago he defended Apple when they posted the videos comparing iPhone to other phones to cover up their form over function screw up. That was okay. But when some other company does it against Apple, it hurts the feelings of Mac users including phide
 

heatlesssun

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Man, that W100 looks awesome as shit. Wonder what the rest of the specs is, cause it could definitely replace my HP TM2T tablet, if it has decent power and long battery life. Cost would be key though. Anywhere near $1000, is a no no. It's too limited, due to screen size and lack of physical keyboard.

The W100 isn't going to replace our tm2s, to expensive and not pen. There's really nothing practical about the W100 other than its size, and I have no idea how practical that is. Miniature computers are very popular in Toshiba's home market and Japan is of course where they are launching the device.

But there's simply been nothing like it before that I know of and the Libretto has always been about miniaturization to the extreme, it will probably be some time if ever before anyone else launches anything close to this at below $1000.

I think this device may have been a BIG factor in Microsoft canceling Courier, for now and there's several reasons . The W100 doesn't even support a pen and its coming in at over $1k. Pen and REAL ink are not easy things to do or cheap, especially in something this small and Courier would have needed pretty much this kind of hardware to run well I believe. And not only that Toshiba would have probably been kind of pissed had they worked on the W100 and then Microsoft have announce Courier, NO ONE, not even me would even think about a W100 with Courier on the way.
 

heatlesssun

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See you dont get it. Apple stuff has magic

Hey back then it WAS magic. I wrote a lot of Microsoft BASIC on the good old Apple II. Would have bought one but like today, Apple computers were generally too expensive for what they were even then and I didn't have that kind of money.
 

zero2dash

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I think the only reason there's Windows fanboys in the world is because Mac fanboys made them that way. If there were no elitist snob Mac fanboys spouting a bunch of nonsense about Windows, I don't think there would be a group of Windows users making fun of Macs for marketshare, price, configuration, color selection, etc. But it is what it is. You reap what you sow.
 

M.D.Geist

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Careful. He might have already returned.

I lol'ed at this hahahahaha


This "PC vs Mac" thing is the oldest known discussion/controversy there is in computer culture, so if it's been around for over 26 solid years now, believe me, it's not going to abate anytime soon. It should just be referred to as "The Great Divide" and be done with it, I think. ;)

Hmmm.. this whole PC vs Mac reminds me of Starcraft... the long battle with the Terrans (PC) and the Zerg (Mac)... next thing you know... another race/company comes along, the Protoss (??? insert company name here???), and then we'll really have one hell of a party! xD
 

krotch

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The W100 isn't going to replace our tm2s, to expensive and not pen. There's really nothing practical about the W100 other than its size, and I have no idea how practical that is. Miniature computers are very popular in Toshiba's home market and Japan is of course where they are launching the device.

But there's simply been nothing like it before that I know of and the Libretto has always been about miniaturization to the extreme, it will probably be some time if ever before anyone else launches anything close to this at below $1000.

I think this device may have been a BIG factor in Microsoft canceling Courier, for now and there's several reasons . The W100 doesn't even support a pen and its coming in at over $1k. Pen and REAL ink are not easy things to do or cheap, especially in something this small and Courier would have needed pretty much this kind of hardware to run well I believe. And not only that Toshiba would have probably been kind of pissed had they worked on the W100 and then Microsoft have announce Courier, NO ONE, not even me would even think about a W100 with Courier on the way.


At $1k, it's definitely a no no. The pen I can live without. I hardly ever use it on the TM2 (cept some games). I just watch videos, read comics, and a little bit of websurfing. Course I'm only making short day trips currently. From Pyeongtaek to Seoul and back. The W100 would be perfect for this. At home, I use my desktop and the TM2 turns into a music player and alarm clock.

I'll be moving back to the states soon, so I'll see how much I end up using the TM2 more like a desktop or not. If the W100 went for $400-$500, I'd definitely get one.
 

Sly

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If you do pictures please!:D



I made my first money in computers BEFORE I ever bought or owned one. Taught my self BASIC, WordPerfect, etc. first on the Apple II and then IBM PCs at libraries and schools. I actually by VERY little Microsoft branded technology. Keyboards, mice, my Zunes, Zune Pass, the copies of Windows that have come with my tablets, don't have an Xbox, that's about it for the last ten years. I've gotten my Microsoft software and tools from work forever now, and the reatil value of that stuff is FAR in excess of anything I've bought from Microsoft.

So before I spend any money on Apple products there would have to be a for REAL money making situation that would have to more than pay for itself or it would need to be something I need to do for my carrer. There's still plenty of money and oppotunity in business software development for the forseeable future with Microsoft tools. I just don't see the time and money investing in any Apple tech as paying off for me.

This.

Windows based PC's are treated as tools. Like a carpenter and his hammer. It's cheap, it gets the work done perfectly, you can build skyscrapers with it, and it's not something you show off. Buying a mac si like getting a titanium hammer. How many houses do you need to build to pay that off?
 

Sly

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I think the only reason there's Windows fanboys in the world is because Mac fanboys made them that way. If there were no elitist snob Mac fanboys spouting a bunch of nonsense about Windows, I don't think there would be a group of Windows users making fun of Macs for marketshare, price, configuration, color selection, etc. But it is what it is. You reap what you sow.

Macs had the "status-symbol" and starbucks rep long before there were Windows fanboys. When they started bragging about it and dissing PC users into switching to their mac. That's when the PC fanboys came around.
 

Azhar

Fixing stupid since 1972
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Macs had the "status-symbol" and starbucks rep long before there were Windows fanboys. When they started bragging about it and dissing PC users into switching to their mac. That's when the PC fanboys came around.

Or perhaps Mac fans were enjoying their products and PC people being annoyed that they're still stuck with boring beige cases and brick shaped laptops started hating on Mac because they have something PC didn't have for the longest time.

It takes two to tango, you know.
 

SixtyWattMan

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akg9xt.jpg
 

zero2dash

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Or perhaps Mac fans were enjoying their products and PC people being annoyed that they're still stuck with boring beige cases and brick shaped laptops started hating on Mac because they have something PC didn't have for the longest time.

Or perhaps Mac fans were sticking their tongues out at PC people because they had systems with form over function and thought PCs were boring beige cases and brick shaped laptops.

I'm sorry, never once have I said "you know, I sure do get a lot of work done on this ugly computer of mine". It's a computer. It serves a purpose. I don't stare it the box on my desk while using it, I stare at the monitor in front of me while using it.

I find it laughable that "nerds" (ie PC people) were the ones that fired the first shot.
 

Azhar

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Or perhaps Mac fans were sticking their tongues out at PC people because they had systems with form over function and thought PCs were boring beige cases and brick shaped laptops.

I'm sorry, never once have I said "you know, I sure do get a lot of work done on this ugly computer of mine". It's a computer. It serves a purpose. I don't stare it the box on my desk while using it, I stare at the monitor in front of me while using it.

I find it laughable that "nerds" (ie PC people) were the ones that fired the first shot.

Oh please. Go to the Linux forum and then come back here and tell me that again with a straight face. Your so-called PC nerds are among the most anti-social people in the world.
 

heatlesssun

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Oh please. Go to the Linux forum and then come back here and tell me that again with a straight face. Your so-called PC nerds are among the most anti-social people in the world.

More anti-social than Linux fans?:D

Like Sly was saying, most Windows nerds like me look a computers as tools. It's ALL about what the devices can do either for business or pleasure. Windows has had it's issues with stability, security and aesthetics but I think those have largely been addressed well. Windows will always be a favorite hackers target and it won't have that Mac look and feel that Mac fans love but overall Windows 7 is stable, secure and reasonably aesthetically pleasing.

But Windows simply kicks OS X AND Linux in the nads on the desktop in terms of functionality and support. It's not even close. Another point that has been made in this thread is that so PC folks like myself just got tired of all of Mac hype as Windows continued to improve and in my opinion the Mac has stagnated. What cool shit can you REALLY do on a Mac? No real gaming, no support for Blu Ray or CableCard, no 3D support, no cool form factors like convertible tablets on touch screens (yes the iPad, phone OS not an OS X Mac) and software and hardware support that always lags.

And Macs are supposed to be hip and cool devices?:confused:

So if others like their Macs and think they are hip and cool so be it. Just understand that on the consumer and business desktop Macs are simply technologically inferior. And when I bring this up every time a Mac or Linux fan will counter "Well no one uses that." And I find it ironic as hell that a Mac or Linux fan uses the popularity argument to counter Windows' technological superiority.
 

zero2dash

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Oh please. Go to the Linux forum and then come back here and tell me that again with a straight face. Your so-called PC nerds are among the most anti-social people in the world.

The argument here is Windows PC versus Mac, not Windows PC versus Linux PC versus Mac. Secondly being that Linux has an even more miniscule marketshare than Mac renders your deflection moot point even more worthless.
 

Disposed

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The argument here is Windows PC versus Mac, not Windows PC versus Linux PC versus Mac. Secondly being that Linux has an even more miniscule marketshare than Mac renders your deflection moot point even more worthless.

Linux market share is next to impossible to gauge with any accuracy but i am willing to bet its just as much as OSX.
 

zero2dash

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True; if there were a way to accurately add in server numbers I would believe it would be higher than OS X.

Anyway one more thing that came to me in a nutshell regarding one vs the other:

Windows users are too busy using their computers to gloat about how great they supposedly are and they don't give a crap what other people think.

Most Mac users like to stroke their own egos and thump their Steve Jobs bibles by proclaiming that their platform is the greatest thing ever created and everything else is just garbage even though while they're on that mission of preaching the Word of Apple their desktops and laptops remain unused.

I still laugh when I come across graphic designers who think that Creative Suite somehow "runs better" on Mac when in reality it is now better supported under Windows being that Adobe has put more effort into 64bit compatibility in Win.
 

WAKASHIZuMa

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Or perhaps Mac fans were enjoying their products and PC people being annoyed that they're still stuck with boring beige cases and brick shaped laptops started hating on Mac because they have something PC didn't have for the longest time.

It takes two to tango, you know.

See that's the issue

A PC user doesnt think of computer as something to "enjoy". It's a tool that has its purpose. You dont "toaster" at your house. You use it to get something done. For majority of the people in the world computers are meant to get work done (and nowadays maintain their digital library) not to be enjoyed or bond to

For mac people though it's a cult. Computers are what make them feel special and different and it's a sad thing for a human to bond this closely with a computer. That's just sad. No wonder they become evangelists going after others to "convert" them....
 

phide

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Windows users are too busy using their computers to gloat about how great they supposedly are and they don't give a crap what other people think.
That explains why you're posting. Because you don't care how you're perceived, right?
 

TheWeazmeister

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See that's the issue

A PC user doesnt think of computer as something to "enjoy". It's a tool that has its purpose. You dont "toaster" at your house. You use it to get something done. For majority of the people in the world computers are meant to get work done (and nowadays maintain their digital library) not to be enjoyed or bond to

I dare say that this is NOT the place where that holds true. I don't know about you, but I enjoy my system daily. While I work on it, I game on it, I interact with others, I tinker with it to squeeze some more performance out of it, I watched streaming movies on it with my kids, I do a bunch of things that add joy to my life. I think on here, the [H]ard PC user, fits most of those groupings. When your computer becomes your "badge" of hipness, that's when things are a bit out of whack.
 

heatlesssun

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True; if there were a way to accurately add in server numbers I would believe it would be higher than OS X.

Servers and clients devices are totally different beasts and in practical terms just aren't related at all. As far as market share, net traffic is I think a pretty good gage. Is Linux client share higher than 1%? Perhaps but I'd bet everything I own its NO WHERE near OS X client market share.
 

scaarbelly

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Servers and clients devices are totally different beasts and in practical terms just aren't related at all. As far as market share, net traffic is I think a pretty good gage. Is Linux client share higher than 1%? Perhaps but I'd bet everything I own its NO WHERE near OS X client market share.

True.

Marketshare

Win (all versions) - 88%
OSx - 11.5%
Linux - 0.5%

http://www.statowl.com/operating_system_market_share.php
 

heatlesssun

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See that's the issue

A PC user doesnt think of computer as something to "enjoy". It's a tool that has its purpose. You dont "toaster" at your house. You use it to get something done. For majority of the people in the world computers are meant to get work done (and nowadays maintain their digital library) not to be enjoyed or bond to

For mac people though it's a cult. Computers are what make them feel special and different and it's a sad thing for a human to bond this closely with a computer. That's just sad. No wonder they become evangelists going after others to "convert" them....

I dare say that this is NOT the place where that holds true. I don't know about you, but I enjoy my system daily. While I work on it, I game on it, I interact with others, I tinker with it to squeeze some more performance out of it, I watched streaming movies on it with my kids, I do a bunch of things that add joy to my life. I think on here, the [H]ard PC user, fits most of those groupings. When your computer becomes your "badge" of hipness, that's when things are a bit out of whack.

Have to go with TheWeazmeister on this one. Actually, entertaiment is one area where the PC simply dominates other platforms because Windows' great gaming and digital content support for things like Blu Ray and CableCard. Without fun stuff I know I'd never build $5k rigs. This reminds me of that "Mac vs PC" adds that portrayed the Mac as more "fun" than the PC. Out of all of those ads this one really was a flat out lie. How is a platform that doesn't have deep game support and doesn't support the latest and greatest digital content supposed to be fun?:confused: Oh, never mind iMovie, because nothing says we're having fun like making a movie!;)
 

krotch

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Wow, when did OSX get 11.5%? Every other statistic out there seems to point at 8% or less. Wonder how many of those Macs also happen to run bootcamp Windows.

"It just works, but not well enough, so here's bootcamp."
 

Bahamut

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Wow, when did OSX get 11.5%? Every other statistic out there seems to point at 8% or less. Wonder how many of those Macs also happen to run bootcamp Windows.

"It just works, but not well enough, so here's bootcamp."

I think the way most of those "statistics" are gathered is by browser usage, and since Safari (the default browser on OSX) is also available on Windows nowadays, it's throwing off the stats somewhat. Also, iPhones, iPod touchs, iPads... all that stuff could potentially be throwing off the numbers. There's no way Macs are in 11% of computer owner's homes... it's just not possible at this point to have that kind of penetration in the market unless they're selling Macs to interdimensional beings of some kind 'cause they sure as hell ain't anywhere I've seen in my travels or on-site service calls.

Considering how many Macs are in Apple Stores around the world on display, they're probably including those in the numbers so that's a percentage point right there. :D

Sly:

That's freakin' hilarious... :D :D
 

knothead34

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yeah at my last job i would do service calls to and i did that job for 15 years. i rarely saw a home with a mac in it. i thought i would see more then what i did see.
:rolleyes:
 

Bahamut

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The obvious reply from Mac fanatics to that point is "Well, you don't see a Mac needing repairs..." which is blatantly false: the issue with Macs is I don't see them in homes when I stop by for a service call because they had to take it into an Apple Store to get it fixed... :D

This old pic is completely relevant in that respect:

pcvsmac.png


Funny and spot-on to boot... :p
 

zero2dash

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That explains why you're posting. Because you don't care how you're perceived, right?

Nope, sure don't.
Mac fanboys don't pay my salary, my customers do. I could care less what they (Mac fanboys) say about me owning or designing under Windows. All my customers care about is getting a finished file to work with, and all I care about is getting them that finished file, on time, so I get paid. I have no problems making deadlines despite working under a platform that is under constant barrage of viruses, spyware, trojans, and all sorts of other nasties, crashes, and BSOD's. :rolleyes: (blue for sarcasm)

I will stand up for both platforms because I work under both platforms at my day job however it's always Mac fanboys being the aggressor so I'm usually on the defending Windows side.
 

Azhar

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for people who don't give a shit about how their PC looks and performs versus Macs and for those who claims PC people don't make fun of Macs, you guys sure post a lot of contradictory replies and pictures. Denial - tastes great with catsup.

Keep at it, nerds ;-)
 

zero2dash

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...So how much Apple hardware have you owned in your life, pre and post OS X, Azhar?
Oh, and we're not counting portable devices either. ;) No i devices, only computers.
 

Azhar

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Owned? None since Apple IIe. Use? Quite a few at work and school. Your point? They're just computers, zero2dash. They don't bite. They don't give a fuck if you have STD or if you wear pink dreadlocks. They don't have opinions about your lifestyle. Say it with me. They're machines!

Now do you see why I see how ridiculous you guys are being? They're inanimate objects subjected to the whims of users whether they're PC users or Mac users or your family cat. Like your toaster. Like your alarm clock. Like your DVD player.

I see people on my train commuting to and from work every fucking day using Macbooks and Dells and HP and Lenovos. Nobody talks about their notebooks. Nobody cares what other people are using. I see people in Starbucks downstairs from my office every fucking day using Macbooks and Dells and HP and Lenovos. Nobody talks about their notebooks there either. Nobody cares except you guys and a few outspoken internet tough guys who thinks they're better than everyone else. That goes for Mac users and PC users alike.

They're just machines and you're acting like it has rabies. Grow up.
 
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