PC Sales See 'Longest Decline' In History

Qinsp

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PS - I didn't buy an iPad. It was a prize in a essay contest by Brother, "Why I use 11x17 Brother Printers." Gave me new printer and a $500 Apple Card.
 

kbrickley

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I have a iPad, and still have no idea what it's used for.

Typing on it sucks, no USB, screen is too small, can't be used as a phone, too heavy to be a reader, gets too hot in the sun, etc.

But I guess people need them.

I enjoy it to play games on long plane flights or when I don't have access to my home PC (visiting relatives or on business trips) ... it is also nice as a magazine reader ... I do have high hopes for the Surface (if MS can stick with it) ... X86 tablets seem to hold a lot of promise :cool:
 

Trimlock

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I have a iPad, and still have no idea what it's used for.

Typing on it sucks, no USB, screen is too small, can't be used as a phone, too heavy to be a reader, gets too hot in the sun, etc.

But I guess people need them.
Its really good for price fixing.
 

chockomonkey

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I don't see how this is surprising at all.

More options for consumers (laptops, tablets, phones, netbooks) mean less people buying stationary PCs.

Sources: Logic.
 

F.E.A.R.

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The way I read it is that people know have gotten smart and now build their own PC's. Willing to bet component sales are up....
 

Qinsp

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Just a couple years ago, 2011, in the USA, they sold about 1 PC per household, or 1 for every 3 people.

Even if the sales are in decline, that's an incredible amount of computers.
 

Ducman69

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SALES don't matter.

PCs in use matter.

The automatic washing machine and dryer isn't dead, its just that mine has lasted me 13 years now. If they were unreliable pieces of shit, then yes, it would appear that they were more popular if I were forced to buy a new one every two years.

Fact is, a five year old quad core computer is still plenty fast for your average joe. Back in the day, a four year old computer was downright obsolete because the technology was changing so rapidly.

Consoles are supposed to go a full decade now before they are updated. If there's a console in every home, but sales are down because the consoles hopefully this generation are more reliable and aren't upgraded but every ten years then its moot.
 

kbrickley

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SALES don't matter.

PCs in use matter.

The automatic washing machine and dryer isn't dead, its just that mine has lasted me 13 years now. If they were unreliable pieces of shit, then yes, it would appear that they were more popular if I were forced to buy a new one every two years.

Fact is, a five year old quad core computer is still plenty fast for your average joe. Back in the day, a four year old computer was downright obsolete because the technology was changing so rapidly.
QUOTE]

Yep ... and this is why that even though new sales are down, the PC Gaming market is booming right now ... even tablet and smartphone sales are starting to suffer a little as people decide they don't need to upgrade those items as frequently either ;)
 

canon.tk

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Sensationalists never use common sense, they only blow things out of proportion.
 

kbrickley

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Sensationalists never use common sense, they only blow things out of proportion.

That's why we have [H] to blow them back into proportion ... unless the topic is about an overarching government conspiracy or something, in which case it is OUR job to blow it out of proportion :D
 

cdr_74_premium

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I think the tipping point is when the H/W got fast enough to stop Windows Lag. Windows got harder and harder to run, so people had to buy faster and faster computers.

Well we finally whupped the crap out Redmond. They are not able to cripple cheap computers anymore.

Perhaps we need a Win10 that has a min of 16 cores, 32gb of RAM, and at 5gb GDDR5 plus a 512gb SSD.

Naaaah, they'll just stay with their current machine running Windows XP.
 

nutzo

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Enterprise still buys from established vendors (most of the time) and probably 60-75% (or more) of PCs are laptops or mobile form factors ... I don't think most people are building their own laptops ... I would agree that the desktop is probably on its way of becoming a boutique option or a build your own option primarily ;)

We're more like 50/50 desktops/laptops.

Unless a person needs to travel (and take thier computer with them), they get a desktop. Desktops are cheaper, have larger screens, are more reliable, and less likely to walk away.

For the past year I've been buying cheap quad core desktops (3.1 or 3.3 Ghz). Most the users wouldn't even notice if they where only dual core's are the same speed, but I figure the quad cores will give us a few more years over a dual core.

As for laptops, I've been buying i5 2.9Ghz dual cores, that cost 2x the price of the faster desktops. That's why only users who need a laptop get one.
 

Slava

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My system should last me for a long time, I hope :D Nothing out there to be had on day one.
 

nutzo

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The automatic washing machine and dryer isn't dead, its just that mine has lasted me 13 years now. If they were unreliable pieces of shit, then yes, it would appear that they were more popular if I were forced to buy a new one every two years.

Still using the Washer & Dryer I bought 29 years ago when I moved out on my own for the first time.
Had to make a couple minor repairs over the past 10 years due to wear (belt & rollers, ignighter on the dryer, clutch on the washer), but the parts where reasonable & easy enough for me to replace. The extra wear was likely due to getting married and having kids. :)

Most new washers and dryer are not built as good and will either need expensive repairs or replacement much more often.
 

nutzo

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I have a iPad, and still have no idea what it's used for.

Typing on it sucks, no USB, screen is too small, can't be used as a phone, too heavy to be a reader, gets too hot in the sun, etc.

But I guess people need them.

You're missing the most important point, it's suppose to make you feel smarter, cooler and more important than all those little people, without one :)
 

Qinsp

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We're more like 50/50 desktops/laptops.

Unless a person needs to travel (and take thier computer with them), they get a desktop. Desktops are cheaper, have larger screens, are more reliable, and less likely to walk away.

For the past year I've been buying cheap quad core desktops (3.1 or 3.3 Ghz). Most the users wouldn't even notice if they where only dual core's are the same speed, but I figure the quad cores will give us a few more years over a dual core.

As for laptops, I've been buying i5 2.9Ghz dual cores, that cost 2x the price of the faster desktops. That's why only users who need a laptop get one.


My personal home computer is a notebrick, err... Notebook. I'd call it a laptop if I had Nomex underwear on, or needed to suntan my legs.

18" screen 1080P, i7 quad, full sized keyboard with numberpad, etc. It makes an OK desktop, so I use it as such. Has a 1GB nVidia GPU. However, should I need to move it, it's easy to move, and doesn't use too much power. But it's freakin' huge and heavy.
 

Qinsp

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You're missing the most important point, it's suppose to make you feel smarter, cooler and more important than all those little people, without one :)

Uh?? How are you going to feel smarter after paying $929 on a notebook with no keyboard and a dinky 128gb SSD? :D
 

kbrickley

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Uh?? How are you going to feel smarter after paying $929 on a notebook with no keyboard and a dinky 128gb SSD? :D

It is the Unicorn Tears and powdered Rainbows they use to manufacture them ... they make the iPad simply magical :p :D
 

Ur_Mom

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You're missing the most important point, it's suppose to make you feel smarter, cooler and more important than all those little people, without one :)

It does for me. I see these people with these Android and Windows tablets and I just scoff at them. Give them a little stinkeye and adjust my sweater vest and keep reading my Jet magazine (to help with diversity, of course).

I reluctantly bought a New iPad (the iPad v.3). I love the thing. I have a Nook Color (modded like a mofo!), and I love Android. But, the iPad's larger screen helps out when reading magazines and some books. I don't feel any cooler, and honestly felt more badass running a Nook Color with a modded ROM with a kickass theme. Windows tablet/laptop - I feel like I'm getting work done. I use the PDF/ebook reader sometimes, but the majority of time I'm using it to do actual work stuff. Real desktop applications. All are very excellent devices, and I use them all depending on the task or location.

PC's declining? I can see it. My PC has lasted longer than most of my older builds. 2600k is still very good. Intel hasn't really increased things by a whole lot. Not enough to upgrade. Not sure if it's the higher quality/speed of the components and they last longer or if it's just 'good enough' and there is no reason to upgrade.
 
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I agree with the point that until there is a real reason to upgrade our PCs then sales will reflect that. Until a kick-ass game/program comes that just slows current PC's down to a halt (and is very popular of course), sales will not go up.
 

Babbster

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I reluctantly bought a New iPad (the iPad v.3). I love the thing. I have a Nook Color (modded like a mofo!), and I love Android. But, the iPad's larger screen helps out when reading magazines and some books.
A larger screen is surely nice but you might want to take a look at some of the smaller tablets with better screens (than the Nook Color; the third iteration of the iPad has beautiful screen quality). I liked my Nook Color (yes, also modded like a mofo) but after moving to the Nexus 7 I found that the better screen allowed for a lot less zooming and squinting. Hopefully they'll hurry up and get the 1080p version on the street, which should be even better. I can't imagine toting around a 10" monster after the convenience of a good 7"...I do like the idea of having a Nexus 10 for use around the house, though I haven't been able to justify spending the money yet.
 

kbrickley

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The stat to watch will be revenue, not sales ... if revenue starts a precipitous drop then we are in "Houston we have a problem" territory ... but when PCs can sell half the volume for 5 times the revenue then the PC model is still very sustainable, even at lower volumes :cool:
 

MrGoodbar

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I would sooner pay 700 bucks for decent desktop components over a 32gb 3g i-whatever. With the mobility of phones and tablets, it's a no-brainer they are getting more sales because people need to replace them when they break them or lose them. Desktops basically sit there and rarely move.

Smart phones and tablets are just in a phase where the market is fresh for them. Give it a couple of years and sales will decline as well when the market is completely saturated and people start moving on to the next new thing. Then the sensationalists will say OMFG TABLET SALES ARE DECLINING.
 

Toonie

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I've sold all my pc's and just living off my wife's 2009 Dell Latitude laptop for all the work needed. Its been 6 months and for sure don't felt no regret doing it. Before, I wouldn't last a couple of months without buying parts to upgrade my pc's but now its pointless when all other technologies are playing catch up. The decline I believe is what MrGoodbar mention, smartphones & tablets are the new trend. They can do all that a typical user would usually do on a laptop/desktop.
 

Ur_Mom

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A larger screen is surely nice but you might want to take a look at some of the smaller tablets with better screens (than the Nook Color; the third iteration of the iPad has beautiful screen quality). I liked my Nook Color (yes, also modded like a mofo) but after moving to the Nexus 7 I found that the better screen allowed for a lot less zooming and squinting. Hopefully they'll hurry up and get the 1080p version on the street, which should be even better. I can't imagine toting around a 10" monster after the convenience of a good 7"...I do like the idea of having a Nexus 10 for use around the house, though I haven't been able to justify spending the money yet.

I will have to look into those. I like the smaller ones, but I was doing the zoom and shuffle just to read things. My wife has the iPad 2 and I have the 3 (with retina), and I can tell a huge difference between them. I'd love to go back to and Android platform that's easily modded. Nexus 7 looks very good.
 

WBurchnall

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Since PCs make 4-5 times the revenue of mobile form factors (even with the much reduced volume) I wouldn't be too worried about the demise of the platform ... heck we still have mainframes, so I don't think PCs are going anywhere anytime soon ... besides, if the industry puts a big push on 4K monitors and technology they might shake up the capabilities of PCs a little and spark some new growth :)

I don't think 4K monitors @ 27" is really going to 'save the day' and make PCs start flying on the shelves again. 4K HDTVs at 60"+ is a hard sell. It is a bit more clear but no content and there will always be the naysayers that claim to be unable to see the difference much.

Consider people claim to be unable to tell the difference with 4k @ 60" or that its not worth the price premium, I think 4k at 27" is overkill considering the small visual quality improvement but massive-cost to render any games at that resolution. I don't think its enough of a visual improvement anyways that its going to inspire Facebooker Jane to go out and spend $1k on a new monitor and $2k on a new pc to be able to place her facebook mmorpg in 4k alongside Farmville in 4k.
 

Qinsp

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2560x1600 @ 30" is very small text. Excel is 39 columns by 69 rows. I can read a whole C sized blueprint without panning.

4000 would have to step up size to about 45" to make the chars readable.
 

kbrickley

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I don't think 4K monitors @ 27" is really going to 'save the day' and make PCs start flying on the shelves again. 4K HDTVs at 60"+ is a hard sell. It is a bit more clear but no content and there will always be the naysayers that claim to be unable to see the difference much.

Consider people claim to be unable to tell the difference with 4k @ 60" or that its not worth the price premium, I think 4k at 27" is overkill considering the small visual quality improvement but massive-cost to render any games at that resolution. I don't think its enough of a visual improvement anyways that its going to inspire Facebooker Jane to go out and spend $1k on a new monitor and $2k on a new pc to be able to place her facebook mmorpg in 4k alongside Farmville in 4k.

It was just a guess ... short of holography there doesn't appear to be any paradigm shifting technologies on the horizon ... integrated graphics like the APU from AMD and Intel's newer processors will help low end users get a better experience but high end users will continue to use discrete graphics cards ... and they certainly won't inspire some mass rush to purchase PCs

mobility is key to the modern environment so the best that can happen with tablets is that those users go with x86 laptops or x86 tablets (both of which would count in the 300 million or so a year PCs sold) ... but although the tablet and smartphone markets seem to be slowing a little, those markets are nowhere near saturation ... that is actually part of the PC's problem, the market is saturated (with Billions of PCs in use)
 

Qinsp

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Stupid Story:

When I was a kid, Union Carbide was working on synthetic rubies to make lasers. Nobody knew what a laser was good for, but it was damn cool.

They demonstrated a 3D Hologram of a 12" battleship to us. It was fooking amazing. Circa 1969?
 

Kalabalana

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I highly doubt this is due to Mr and Mrs Joe A Consumer at home not buying PC. Just like with Windows OS, this is focused on Business who purchase PC in large volume. Most Business are pushing hardware refresh cycle back to longer cycles as the PC of the last 3 years are running fine. I do expect to see hardware cycle get a bump as XP goes end a life April of next year.

A logical post free of bias and/or emotion that makes sense?

Thank you, it's not often a new perspective is put fourth so cleanly for me.
 

HeavensCloud

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I'm sorry my 2500K never goes above 50% usage, giving me no reason to upgrade.
 

guitarguy6

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I highly doubt this is due to Mr and Mrs Joe A Consumer at home not buying PC. Just like with Windows OS, this is focused on Business who purchase PC in large volume. Most Business are pushing hardware refresh cycle back to longer cycles as the PC of the last 3 years are running fine. I do expect to see hardware cycle get a bump as XP goes end a life April of next year.

I think you are right. Also are they just looking at the sales numbers for HP/Dell/Acer etc or are they also looking at hardware sales?
 

Hiyruu

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Pretty much the only people buying PCs now are those that build themselves or those that select all parts and have it built for them like you can do on NCIX.

But as for general bundled PCs, hardly anyone buys anymore.
 

Ur_Mom

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Let's take it in 5 year intervals.

5 years ago, the Core i7 was released. It can still hold it's own these days and is a great CPU.
10 years ago, we were at P4 with HT, not even dual core.
15 years ago, we were at P3/Celeron.

So, with a 5 year upgrade plan - from the P3 to the P4 was a large upgrade and very worth while. From the P4 to Core i7 was a great upgrade. But, from the Core i7 to a current Haswell, it isn't as much of a difference unless you're doing some very CPU intensive programs. Performance is leveling out lately. It is an increase, but just not as large of an increase as we've had in the past.

I see no need to upgrade my couple year old 2600k. It's still a very fast CPU, and I wouldn't gain very much by upgrading.

That's my thoughts, anyway. There could easily be some other reason and have absolutely nothing to do with what I said. I can say that I've gone longer now with this CPU than I have in the past for upgrades. So, it has affected me. Hopefully, something comes out soon that is a huge increase in speed so I can upgrade. Haswell would be nice, but it wouldn't justify the cost of the upgrade.

(source for dates and CPU's - http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/quickreffam.htm)
 

biggles

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Let's take it in 5 year intervals.

5 years ago, the Core i7 was released. It can still hold it's own these days and is a great CPU.
10 years ago, we were at P4 with HT, not even dual core.
15 years ago, we were at P3/Celeron.

So, with a 5 year upgrade plan - from the P3 to the P4 was a large upgrade and very worth while. From the P4 to Core i7 was a great upgrade. But, from the Core i7 to a current Haswell, it isn't as much of a difference unless you're doing some very CPU intensive programs. Performance is leveling out lately. It is an increase, but just not as large of an increase as we've had in the past.

I see no need to upgrade my couple year old 2600k. It's still a very fast CPU, and I wouldn't gain very much by upgrading.

That's my thoughts, anyway. There could easily be some other reason and have absolutely nothing to do with what I said. I can say that I've gone longer now with this CPU than I have in the past for upgrades. So, it has affected me. Hopefully, something comes out soon that is a huge increase in speed so I can upgrade. Haswell would be nice, but it wouldn't justify the cost of the upgrade.

(source for dates and CPU's - http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/quickreffam.htm)

This sums it up.
 

bigddybn

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My most used desktop has an i3-2120 in it. It uses the same 8GB of DDR3 and 128GB SSD I installed a few years ago. It still to this day rips through anything I ask it to with zero problem. There simply has been no reason to upgrade and I don't really see one in the near future either.
 
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