Path of Exile vs Diablo 3

arr4ws said:
the skill tree is a masterpiece.... so many build options its totally CRAZY.

I love the game so far
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The skill tree always felt horribly unimpactful to me. It's just a complex visual interface in place of the simple system Diablo used to have for distributing attribute points with each level. Sure, about 10% of the skills in there give slightly more interesting or different things than attribute points, but most of it was very boring. It's the type of thing that seems complex and interesting upon first looking at it, but once you start using it, you realize that its just a gimmicky waste of time with a few beacons of importance scattered throughout a sea of pointless shit.
 
krameriffic said:
The skill tree always felt horribly unimpactful to me. It's just a complex visual interface in place of the simple system Diablo used to have for distributing attribute points with each level. Sure, about 10% of the skills in there give slightly more interesting or different things than attribute points, but most of it was very boring. It's the type of thing that seems complex and interesting upon first looking at it, but once you start using it, you realize that its just a gimmicky waste of time with a few beacons of importance scattered throughout a sea of pointless shit.
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I couldn't disagree with you more. Their skill tree lets you build a character any way you want no matter what class you are. There is a reason it is called a passive skill tree. The actual skill gems are where you abilities come from and if you think about it that is something that is very easy to add to as the game advances.
 
If we could import the Skill system from PoE into D3 it would be hot.

but based on the beta the skill system in D3 seems shitty and made for the simpletons.
 
Couldn't disagree with the last comment more.

Skill trees in Diablo II just ended up fucking you in the later difficulty levels.

Oh, you mean that horde of skeleton casters I just created isn't going to do much in hell/nightmare? Well shit. Now I'm fucked.

I like the new skill system. Allows for flexibility to change when I want if I want but also rewards me for finding one setup and sticking with it.
 
Amaroth said:
I get what your saying but shiny new loot has never been enough to keep me playing the same content over and over again. Shiny new loot with new content is though. Thats not the Diablo games though.
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you must never have raided in an MMO than :p
 
stevedave said:
If we could import the Skill system from PoE into D3 it would be hot.

but based on the beta the skill system in D3 seems shitty and made for the simpletons.
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gotta get into the elective modes and higher levels to see it shine.. I think thats a flaw with the beta.. its like oh here is 6 moves... and you have 4 slots. not a lot of customization

at 60 you have 30 skills and 5 or 6 skill variations I think? i cant remember the exact. some of the runes drastically change the way the spell interacts with the game as well. So when you have an abundance of skills and only 6 slots you'll get more builds as the game continues. It will be interesting to see what people come up with.. I had one build for my barbarian that had a leap stomp and volcano and it's just massive rape and pillageness ;D.


turns out there is an elective mode too, before when i was in the closed beta the skill UI was kind of a pain in the ass, they've made it easier to use however now you can enable elective mode and you can just put whatever skills you want in whichever slot instead of confined more for simplicity.
 
dremic said:
you must never have raided in an MMO than :p
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Actually I have raided in MMO's a crap ton in multiple games and had world firsts before the days of youtube and handouts in the form of websites and tutorials. I stop raiding when its on farm mode and then wait for new content. I doubt i'm the only one who plays like this. Games such as Diablo, PoE, Titans Quest don't really release new content. Thats the crux of my argument about re-playability. A patch with new items, runes or whatever is great. Doesn't make killing the same stuff or doing the same quests better.

I believe re-playability comes from interaction with people in online games, competition in PvP, or player created missions like a select few MMO's have done, or entirely new content.
 
Here is how the unlock progression works for each class. Take note that the beta stopped at lvl 13. You're barely getting started at that point.

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jester1176 said:
Couldn't disagree with the last comment more.

Skill trees in Diablo II just ended up fucking you in the later difficulty levels.

Oh, you mean that horde of skeleton casters I just created isn't going to do much in hell/nightmare? Well shit. Now I'm fucked.

I like the new skill system. Allows for flexibility to change when I want if I want but also rewards me for finding one setup and sticking with it.
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That is what skill reset was for. Not being able to customize really bums me out and have a selection of ruins doesn't seem like much of a customization.

But we'll see when the game comes out I already have the week off work.
 
I will give D3 this. Its a shit ton better than the synergies. I hated when they added that.
 
D3 will be just as limited as D2 or PoE. No game has ever made a talent tree that didn't have a cookie cutter build. So please withhold comments of "it doesn't matter cuz blah blah". It will matter because Inferno will demand a cookie cutter build, especially if you want to farm. History proves you wrong.
 
vary said:
D3 will be just as limited as D2 or PoE. No game has ever made a talent tree that didn't have a cookie cutter build. So please withhold comments of "it doesn't matter cuz blah blah". It will matter because Inferno will demand a cookie cutter build, especially if you want to farm. History proves you wrong.
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No one's saying there won't be a cookie cutter "best" build. At least, that's what the D3 devs say. A lot of builds are expected to be viable in Inferno. This may imply that it's not as difficult as humanly possible, but it can also mean that there are many builds that are close to each other in viability.
 
I'm pretty sure blizzard designed every rune to be viable. You're no longer picking up "filler" skills just to reach the good stuff, nor pumping points into an ability you're not using just for min/maxing

Sure, there may be less mathematical combinations than the 100+ skill points from D2, but there's no doubt D3 will have a much larger set of "viable" builds (practically all of them)

Wizard Non-Elective Move (1 skill from each set)
4 * 4 * 4 * 5 * 5 * 3 = 4800 combinations as skills, which i'd say any combinations would be viable

With runes
4800 * (5 ^ 6) = 75 million combinations of active skills, which I'd say a vast majority is viable

Passive skills
15 choose 3 = 455 Passive combinations

Total non-elective mode combinations (1 skill in each set, all with a rune, and passive combinations)
34.125 billion combinations.


Total Wizard Elective mode (can choose any number of skills from any skill set)
(25 choose 6)(6 ^ 5)(15 choose 3) = 626,593,968,000 total skill combinations for wizard

Furthermore, lets assume only 1 in a million combinations are even worth looking at, Thats still over half a million skill combinations worth considering. And even further, only 1 in ten thousand of those combinations are truly viable for inferno, thats skill around 60 viable inferno builds for one class. How many viable hell mode sorc builds were there in D2?

I think this magnitude of combinations emphasizes that they're pushing for skill of the actual player, not build of the character. The best players will be the ones that find the builds that suit their playstyle the best, not the one who read 40 guides on the game. It will also allow you to be more flexible depending on the rest of your party (I'm going glass shotgun builds when grouping with my friends).
 
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^ All that math and it'll still come down to a few best builds for each class, like every other online game in history. I am not expecting them to solve this, but I think most gamers naturally want the best build possible, and there will be math and spreadsheets involved until the best builds are brought to fruition and posted on a forum.
 
Skizzy said:
^ All that math and it'll still come down to a few best builds for each class, like every other online game in history. I am not expecting them to solve this, but I think most gamers naturally want the best build possible, and there will be math and spreadsheets involved until the best builds are brought to fruition and posted on a forum.
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The reason the math won't work the way you think it will is the fact that you're going to need gear as the baseline. All of the abilities are based on % of weapon damage and the runes cause other triggers other than just damage. Some have a knockback. Some have a stun. Some a fear. Some give defensive bonuses. And with random loot, you're not guaranteed to get the weapons that could whirlwind for you better than hammer of the ancients for me(throwing random skills out there, hopefully you get the point).

What it comes down to is that I may want to be more defensive with my Barbarian. I may want to go sword and shield and use abilities that allow me to slow, stun and control my enemies.

You, on the other hand, may want your barbarian to be a dual-weilding maniac that chews through her opponents and focuses on killing things as fast as possible.

The reason they went away from the skill trees is so people could make these choices without being penalized for it.

Which is "best?" Neither. It's a play style preference.
 
I think the best players for Inferno will have to mix up their specs as they're playing. Certain bosses or encounters might suit certain builds more than others. In fact you might have to change your spec and gear for certain bosses. A boss that throws out a lot of fire damage might force you to wear more fire resistance items.

I don't think you'll find a build that's better than every other build 100% of the time.
 
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so is the PoE beta still going?
anyone got a spare key, would really love to try it out.
 
There will be builds you cannot use in Inferno. There will be builds you HAVE to use if you want to be competitive, especially if you enjoy playing alone. There is no system where every build works, or even tens at hardest difficulty. Socialism doesn't work, and some classes will be most-likely undesirable in end game content.

Even if items are a basis for damage percentile, (which Blizzard will have to account for, in-turn reducing the effectiveness of the overall skill to account for massive damage boost from high end items) these items wont change your build for casters.
 
vary said:
Even if items are a basis for damage percentile, (which Blizzard will have to account for, in-turn reducing the effectiveness of the overall skill to account for massive damage boost from high end items) these items wont change your build for casters.
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this is also incorrect. All skills are based on weapon damage. For example:

Summon a multi-headed Hydra for 15 seconds that attacks enemies with bolts of fire dealing 31.2% weapon damage as Fire per attack.
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and

Project a beam of frozen ice that blasts 215% weapon damage as Cold to the first enemy it hits, slowing the target's movement by 30% for 3 seconds.
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LeviathanZERO said:
so is the PoE beta still going?
anyone got a spare key, would really love to try it out.
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yes, still going on.

no spare here but go sign up for a key and post in the forum for a chance to "win" one. or just buy $10 worth of credit and get the key immediately.

open beta starts up in the not too distant future.
 
also , beta character will be deleted when the game release.

just so people know
 
jester1176 said:
this is also incorrect. All skills are based on weapon damage. For example:

Summon a multi-headed Hydra for 15 seconds that attacks enemies with bolts of fire dealing 31.2% weapon damage as Fire per attack.

Project a beam of frozen ice that blasts 215% weapon damage as Cold to the first enemy it hits, slowing the target's movement by 30% for 3 seconds.
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Yeah, but dmg also increases as stats increase and as you level-up. Increased intelligence, for example, increases spell dmg for Witch Doctor etc.

It's a decent mix between the two, I suppose. Have to see how it plays-out in the end.
 
How is what I said incorrect? Percent based spells will not change your build at high level play. Depending on how effective and useful the spell is will determine the spells overall use. For instance, you can make a melee wizard, but if your equipment and spells aren't synergistic enough, it will not be effective at high level play. Almost all of the talent tree builds in Diablo 2 were effective, until high level play, and every action-rpg accounts for this example.
 
I found a six socket bow last night and used one orb of Fusing and one orb of Alchemy. I imagine that my Ranger will be using this bow for quite some time...
 
J Macker said:
I found a six socket bow last night and used one orb of Fusing and one orb of Alchemy. I imagine that my Ranger will be using this bow for quite some time...
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damn that's nice. once fusing got you five links? lucky!

I imagine that is an "endgame" bow.

I see a couple really nice orbs off to the right side too ;)
 
I am interested in the PoE Beta.
Does anyone have a spare key they wanna let go off?
 
There will be builds you cannot use in Inferno. There will be builds you HAVE to use if you want to be competitive, especially if you enjoy playing alone. There is no system where every build works, or even tens at hardest difficulty. Socialism doesn't work, and some classes will be most-likely undesirable in end game content.

Even if items are a basis for damage percentile, (which Blizzard will have to account for, in-turn reducing the effectiveness of the overall skill to account for massive damage boost from high end items) these items wont change your build for casters.
__________________

-quote from myself. damn it suck's being right.
 
Path of Exile seems like they are leaning more towards "build your own character anyway" you want type of thing
 
One thing I can say for PoE is that grinding does get you upgrades unlike D3 where the AH is the best place to find the best gear while progressing through the difficulty levels. I think it is the most ignorant concept ever imagined. Struggle killing bosses and get garbage. Take gold from killing bosses and get the best gear in the game from the AH.
 
Just a reminder for those interested in debating the two games that this thread is still here.

 
cageymaru said:
One thing I can say for PoE is that grinding does get you upgrades unlike D3 where the AH is the best place to find the best gear while progressing through the difficulty levels. I think it is the most ignorant concept ever imagined. Struggle killing bosses and get garbage. Take gold from killing bosses and get the best gear in the game from the AH.
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I agree. The AH itself wasn't a bad idea, but given the model, they should have either:

A) Made gear bind on equip, or
B) Created sub-regions for the AH within their current region. (then they could increase drop rates)
 
I trade with people regularly in PoE, but it's usually skill gems or orbs. You can get the gear you need simply just playing the game. Though, making your end game set takes devotion. It's really fun to be indirectly in control of the stats on your items.
 
So the new Diablo 3 hotfix today was to fix the rising costs of gear on the AH by dropping more worthless random gear. I got an ilvl 61 Wizard hat that had 0 stats or bonuses besides it could be used 10 levels lower. One day Blizzard will figure out what the genre is about. I'm enjoying PoE more and more!
 
LeninGHOLA said:
I trade with people regularly in PoE, but it's usually skill gems or orbs. You can get the gear you need simply just playing the game. Though, making your end game set takes devotion. It's really fun to be indirectly in control of the stats on your items.
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That's what makes finding items fun in PoE. You can actually dictate with time played what you're wearing. Put in the time and you can alter what you have to meet your needs. You can actually spec a certain way so that you can hunt gear with a purpose.

D3 sticks you on a hamster wheel and assumes you'll get off at the RMAH bus stop.
 
cageymaru said:
That's what makes finding items fun in PoE. You can actually dictate with time played what you're wearing. Put in the time and you can alter what you have to meet your needs. You can actually spec a certain way so that you can hunt gear with a purpose.

D3 sticks you on a hamster wheel and assumes you'll get off at the RMAH bus stop.
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It's also nice that NOTHING is worthless in the game. Even shit broken items can be bartered for identify scrolls, or turned into something else entirely. Then those identify scrolls can be bartered for other items. There are also vendor "recipes" where you barter certain combinations of items to get different rewards.

I still don't understand the use of "cracked hammerfist" dropping in Diablo 3. It serves 0 purpose.
 
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