Paris Plans to Banish All but Electric Cars by 2030

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Megalith, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    Paris authorities plan to banish all petrol- and diesel-fueled cars from the world’s most visited city by 2030: the move marks an acceleration in plans to wean the country off gas-guzzlers and switch to electric vehicles in a city often obliged to impose temporary bans due to surges in particle pollution in the air.

    Paris City Hall said in a statement France had already set a target date of 2040 for an end to cars dependent on fossil fuels and that this required speedier phase-outs in large cities. “This is about planning for the long term with a strategy that will reduce greenhouse gases,” said Christophe Najdovski, an official responsible for transport policy at the office of Mayor Anne Hidalgo. “Transport is one of the main greenhouse gas producers...so we are planning an exit from combustion engine vehicles, or fossil-energy vehicles, by 2030,” he told France Info radio.
     
  2. DigitalGriffin

    DigitalGriffin 2[H]4U

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    As I said this morning
    "Good luck with that"
     
  3. Yaka

    Yaka Gawd

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    man all this hate on good old cars is getting on my nerves. i was hoping to get an older "classic" and do some weekend restoration but seems i may never get the chance shit like this is gona mean prices are gonna sky rocket old classics
     
  4. KarsusTG

    KarsusTG 2[H]4U

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    Unrealistic goals are rarely met.
     
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  5. boomboy2k1

    boomboy2k1 Limp Gawd

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    How are they gonna enforce that? Police pull you over because you are driving a gas car? I'll keep my gas-guzzler V8 until I die.
     
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  6. otherweeb

    otherweeb Gawd

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    I love these forums. Here, I'll help.

    Fly thru the air??!??!? IMPOSSIBLE!
    Go to the moon?!?!? IMPOSSIBLE!

    Somehow I doubt any Parisian hot rod owners are reading this.
     
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  7. haste.

    haste. [H]ard|Gawd

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    Just there during the full on "car-free" day. Basically mass transport, delivery vehicles, taxis, and "responsible citizens" who promised to take the quickest route were allowed to drive.

    Most abided and it was nice to not have to worry about some Parisian asshole running you down when you have a walk sign (after waiting 5 f'in minutes), but there were still plenty on the road.

    Point being, they will push it but it isn't realistic even if the law is passed.
     
  8. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

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    Of course, we've come full circle: Sail to the end of the known world to see if there's another continent out there??!?!? Terrorizer of indiginous peoples!
     
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  9. Wierdo

    Wierdo [H]ard|Gawd

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    China, France, Norway, the domino pieces keep falling. Old geezers continue to sit on their front lawns, shaking their canes at gravity.
     
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  10. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

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    Implementation would be an interesting thing. Do you as an auto company keep selling gas powered cars until 2029 in the hopes that someone new will be put into power to reverse the decision. Do you as the current ruling body prohibit the sale of gasoline powered cars from this day onward, and then hope that in 13 more years very few will still be running a 13 year old car so it's a lot easier, politically speaking, to just outright ban all gasoline cars that still exist.
     
  11. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'm surprised France isn't being more aggressive about electric cars. France gets most of it's power from nuclear plants and they have a huge chunk of excess capacity that they currently sell to their neighbors.
     
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  12. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Good. Now tell us how all of those batteries will be disposed of.
     
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  13. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

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    And ignore the carbon footprint created by mining the materials to build them also.
     
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  14. thejokker

    thejokker Gawd

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    Typical politicians... The current level of electric car technology is far too immature to replace internal combustion engine powered cars and there is no guarantee they ever will.
     
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  15. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    And don't forget the footprint from the facility that creates the energy to charge them.
     
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  16. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

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    If people were really concerned about the environment and their car, they would buy PZEV's like Ford Fiestas and Honda Fits and drive around cities on scooters. But the leftist environment police has brainwashed people to believe electric cars are the future.
     
  17. travisty

    travisty Limp Gawd

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    And the US continues to fall behind.
     
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  18. otherweeb

    otherweeb Gawd

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    Long time since you've been to the city eh?
     
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  19. DigitalGriffin

    DigitalGriffin 2[H]4U

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    Who knows, it may be an attempt to curb the number of autos in Paris. But if enough people cry out, I can see it being reversed.

    The average car ownership life is about 14 years now? What's the sell through rate in France? 108K units in 10 years. That's pretty paltry for such lofty goals.

    I will give France one thing, they have one of the most up to date power grids. If any country can handle the additional load to the grid, it will be them with their nuclear power.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elect...ile:Top_PEV_global_markets_stock_Dec_2016.png

     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  20. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    Don't worry, this law will only apply to the little guys. Government cars will be exempt, so the politicians will still be driven around in their limos and SUV's.
     
  21. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    Except "France could close 'up to 17' nuclear reactors by 2025"
     
  22. DigitalGriffin

    DigitalGriffin 2[H]4U

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    Good grief! Bad timing France. I know nuclear isn't exactly the perfectly safe option, but it's your only one that can reliably produce that much juice.

    It's a shame too because they have a process to reuse spent fuel rods.
     
  23. JokerCPoC

    JokerCPoC Gawd

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  24. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    Behind what? Unrealistic knee jerk legislation? We have enough of that kind of crap already. EV's will take over organically when price/performance/utility makes them a better option than ICE. Silly legislation like this doesn't accomplish anything except appease certain groups who have unrealistic beliefs of how the rest of the world functions.
     
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  25. mullet

    mullet [H]ard|Gawd

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    HAHAH very funny!!

    Now think as hard as you can about this simple question, "what would the world look/be like if the USA never existed"?
     
  26. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Just 12 years and a few months. Very unrealistic expectations. Realistically is there even a large scale producer of EVs outside of Tesla? The Volt which seems to be lukewarm at best? A handful of others? What about the infrastructure?

    Seems unrealistic, IMO.
     
  27. krotch

    krotch [H]ardness Supreme

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    I've driven through Paris 3 times so far. If not for cute Japanese idols going there to do concerts, I'd never go. Paris is a shitty city.

    Can still get hit by those damn scooters.

    It's Paris though. Electric cars would work fine there, as most aren't driving more than 50 km a day.

    Fall behind what? Who do you think started this whole electric car movement? Also by itself, electric car sales are increasing in the US in general. EV sales are up 86% this year. They just increase on their on year after year. Last year, it was up like 70%. There's no need for stupid legislation to push it.

    If they fell like pushing regulation, push one to require all electric vehicles share the same standard for charging.
     
  28. gamerk2

    gamerk2 Gawd

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    Not really. Electric cars can already get to the 300 mile range typical of older non-electric vehicles. The real problem is recharging infrastructure, but that will eventually take care of itself (just replace gas stations with electric charging stations).
     
  29. gamerk2

    gamerk2 Gawd

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    Remember that people will purchase cars knowing (in theory) that most of the EU looks to be banning conventional cars by 2030, so you'll start seeing sales impacts a lot sooner, potentially as early as 2025 or so. With more an more countries/cities targeting 2030, there is going to be a major pivot by automakers.

    To me, the real problem isn't so much the technology (we have 300 mile range already, which is about what you need for the tech itself to be viable), but recharging infrastructure. Tesla is trying to do that itself, but the real solution is likely going to be a partnership that will replace conventional gas stations with fast-recharge stations. I'd honestly get an electric car today if there was a way to recharge it on the go.

    Basically, it comes down to some entity throwing a ton of money on the infrastructure problem. Electric cards are viable today, absent recharging infrastructure.
     
  30. lilbabycat

    lilbabycat 2[H]4U

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    Yes China, the epitome of environmental standards, leading the way. France (Paris especially), ignoring its rotting core, choosing pride on the global media stage. And finally Norway, a (once) homogeneous paradise society that is used by every progressive in the world as an example of how the rest of the would be if we'd only adapt their ways (ignoring population density, that whole "homogenous" part, and a multitude of other factors).

    Yep totally falling behind, both on the government side https://energy.gov/science-innovation
    and the private https://www.tesla.com/
     
  31. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yes there are three main barriers with electric cars IMO.

    1. Infrastructure to charge and power.

    2. Time to charge. If you can't do it in 2-3 minutes...not going to work. You'll have to have charging points for 1000+ cars on a major highway if it takes longer than 15 minutes rather then 6 pumps.

    3. Ultimate range before having to 2. I think 400 miles on a charge needs to happen ASAP.

    I think the best we'll be able to do unless some quantum leap in this tech happens is aim for 75% of vehicles to be hybrids (the other 25% all electric) by 2050.
     
  32. The Lamb

    The Lamb n00bie

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    You probably can. London has an automated number plate reading system, and it charges drivers entering the city limits proportionally to their vehicle CO2 emissions. Electric cars go free, and people with muscle cars have the money to afford the charge.

    Who wants to drive in Paris or London though? Traffic is just as bad in a V8 as a Tesla - except in the pedestrianised areas of course.
     
  33. naib

    naib Gawd

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    You need to actually do some research instead of listening to european-driven main stream media


    Since about 2005 EU and America have seen reductions in emissions. THIS is all before the 2015 Paris climate agreement (wait ... EU+US were already doing something??? butbutbut without it the world dies!!!!1one).
    NOTE that china has been ramping up at a silly pace since 2003 and exceed the rest in 2004. India also started a higher rate in 2006

    http://edgar.jrc.ec.europa.eu/news_...n-global-co2-emissions-2016-report-103425.pdf
     
  34. naib

    naib Gawd

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    I posted something similar here & on the Gentoo forums when the ban was mentioned for UK...

    The UK has stats for everything, in detail, freely available... 10min in excel and it shows you that the GENERATION & DISTRIBUTION needs to double in capability in 10years. That is major public investment and not a lot of time...
     
  35. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yep I've been saying that the UK needs to pull its finger out and get building at least 6-8 new gen reactors yesterday. It will only happen then the tree huggers cant charge their iPads and then all hell will break loose.
     
  36. fuzzylogik

    fuzzylogik Limp Gawd

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    whatever happened to hydrogen full cells?
     
  37. NeoNemesis

    NeoNemesis [H]ard|Gawd

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    Pretty sure Hydrogen is just too expensive to make in large quantities. Otherwise, I'm a little disappointed it didn't take off.
     
  38. shad0w4life

    shad0w4life Gawd

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    I love how there's zero plan for infrastructure to recharge a car in 5 mins for any of these places mandating this . Do they really think it will go over well making someone wait 2 hours every 200-300km?? Are delivery companies going to have to store multiple vehicles along highways? Does this apply to shipping vehicles? Delivery times are going to be delayed if they ship it ground
     
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  39. naib

    naib Gawd

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    i agree and ideally thorium salt reactors (there is a uk startup that has funding for a small scale generator).
    Generation is only half the story... we need to increase the capability of the overheads and all the substations. A doubling in electrical demand needs a doubling in generation AND distribution capability.
     
  40. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Maybe we will no longer own the vehicles. There will just be pick up points and you pay a yearly subscription or pay per mile to Amazon or somesuch. The more I think of it I think this is the only way it could possibly work.

    Car ownership is dead.