Panel Makers to Shift Focus to 8K LCD in 2019

What did Carmack say a few years ago? VR requires 8k per eye. And I believe him.

Instead of "cool, 8k is going to be affordable in a few years" people here be acting like old fools asking "why". As if there's an actual downside to this type of progress
 
Wasn't there a report about a year ago stating that 8k OTA signals would introduce a forced targetted content advertising? This might be the motivation for this movement.

Ah, here it is https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/atsc-3-0-ota-broadcast-standard-4k-dolby-atmos/

So I'm going with advertisements being the motivator for introducing forced ATSC 3.0, which would force OTA broadcasters to dump 1.0 and force 3.0 compliant devices. The article even mentions broadcasters want to introduce the 3.0 by 2020.
 
shansoft said:
Been using LG UltraFine 5K, I cannot go back to 4K anymore.....
While doing some reading and coding, 5K font is far easier to read than 4K. Hopefully more 5K 27" panels coming.....
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I'm using a 5k 27" monitor as I type, but I don't know if it's still made. It's a Dell if you're interested.
 
As anyone in a marketing capacity will tell you, larger numbers are always better, regardless of whether they are needed or not.

This is why Sony is coming out with a 48 megapixel camera sensor for 1029 phones, despite the fact that the sensor will WAY outresolve any phone camera optics, and be a complete waste.

Idiot consumers like bigger numbers.
 
nilepez said:
disagree. I've got a 65" OLED, and I can see pixels if I"m about 5-6' away, which if I could figure out a way to do it, would be where I'd always be. And if I had a 80" or bigger, it'd be even better. Honestly, this is the same place where everyone swore there was no point for 4k and HDR or not, 4k is much sharper than 2k.
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That seems nuts to me.

I have a 65'" 1080p plasma Panasonic TV, and we sit 10-12 feet away (any closer would induce the neck-ache experience of the miserable first row seats at a movie theater)

At this range, I don't see any reason to even upgrade to 4k. 1080p is plenty.
 
shansoft said:
Been using LG UltraFine 5K, I cannot go back to 4K anymore.....

While doing some reading and coding, 5K font is far easier to read than 4K. Hopefully more 5K 27" panels coming.....
Click to expand...

I sit ~2ft away from a 48" 4k screen on my desktop.

This results in a dpi that is slightly lower than I would have liked. If it would only be 43" 4K would be perfect.

I see no reason what so ever to ever go beyond ~100-110 ppi on the deskop. It just results in a waste of GPU processing cost with little to no benefit.
 
I like this in the sense that a bigger screen size (as in monster size) would still have a sharp image. In the past they'd increase the screen size with the same resolution and it looked like crap. Just because you can does not mean that you should.

But as many have pointed out here, there isn't much content for 4k at this point let alone 8k....money grab.
 
Serious question: What's the answer for legacy applications that don't scale in Windows that have text or icons smaller than a postage stamp at these resolutions? Just have Windows zoom enabled all the time?
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I sit ~2ft away from a 48" 4k screen on my desktop.

This results in a dpi that is slightly lower than I would have liked. If it would only be 43" 4K would be perfect.

I see no reason what so ever to ever go beyond ~100-110 ppi on the deskop. It just results in a waste of GPU processing cost with little to no benefit.
Click to expand...

I said the same thing until I used 5k 27"......
 
homernoy said:
For fucks sake, this is the [H]? My Dad told me there was no reason to ever go beyond a few MB, (big at the time of the conversation) of space, because no one could ever use that much space, ever. Let's all be happy companies are pushing for the pinnacle. Why the sarcasm and thumbs down? I don't plan on buying an 8k tv...………...but at least I'll have that choice when they exist
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Don't think the comparison applies though.
 
I'm happy with my 1080p Panasonic plasma TVs thank you very much. I have zero interest in upgrading my TVs.
 
I own a few 4K tv's (upgrade old 1080p sets - bought the new screens much cheaper than I paid for the 1080p ones) and still have a couple of 1080p screens in the house. The majority of my TV content comes from streaming (Netflix, Hulu, Prime, etc). All of these services vary the resolution being streamed to your house based on the network. I'm not sure how often I watch anything at 4K (not too mention, the library of available 4K content is not what I'd call Dolly Parton Ample yet).
I also watch OTA content which I think is 1080i. Any news if the US is going to upgrade broadcast standards?
Wrapping up, I might be on the 8K bandwagon in about 8-10 years from now when the prices have dropped and I'm replacing my 4K sets. By then, 24k sets will be all the rage and 8k will be mundane.
 
Unlike audio, the bandwidth requirement for high definition video is so great it is prohibitively expensive. Even with new technology we are struggling to keep up with what we already have. The raw data size is massive, and compressed data streams eat up compute power to decode. To edit 4K content without dropped frames requires significant investment.

Not going to happen.
 
I wonder where it ends? I’m more or less indifferent to 8k given how little 4K content exists, but if that’s where the industry wants to go then fine, but realistically I don’t see how it can go farther than this in anything but very niche applications.
 
Makaveli@BETA said:
Why?
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Money. Higher profit margins.

tetris42 said:
Serious question: What's the answer for legacy applications that don't scale in Windows that have text or icons smaller than a postage stamp at these resolutions? Just have Windows zoom enabled all the time?
Click to expand...

I run my 32" 2K display at 125% for the desktop (Windows 7 Pro leagacy desktop). Had to scale the browser as well. Not seen any troubles with any other application I use.

For me, 32" is the size limit due to it only being 18" from my eyes. I see no reason to go 4K for my desktop and the streaming content quality for 4K is not worth it for me to upgrade my television.

I'll pass on 8K as well. Probably replace my television when it dies and then get what is available.
 
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Shit, I'd love to replace my 60" 1080p plasma with an 80-98" 8K LED LCD, but not for the early adopter tax that comes along with it right out of the gate. I'll keep waiting, then likely grab a 70-80" 4K Samsung or LG when they are on fire sale for $800-900 to "get me by".
 
Meanwhile most HDTV broadcast is still 1080i and most movies are still true 2k digitally sourced.

8k is dumb at this current time. HDR is still mostly broken with most displays not meeting spec of 1000 NIT and color profiles not perfected. I’d rather see HDMI 2.1 and perfected 4k than anything 8k.

You want something new? Reintroduce passive 3D into the newest specs.
 
homernoy said:
For fucks sake, this is the [H]? My Dad told me there was no reason to ever go beyond a few MB, (big at the time of the conversation) of space, because no one could ever use that much space, ever. Let's all be happy companies are pushing for the pinnacle. Why the sarcasm and thumbs down? I don't plan on buying an 8k tv...………...but at least I'll have that choice when they exist
Click to expand...

Maybe because there's more to a display than resolution and many of us would like to see true quality improvements instead of more pixels marketing driven push?
 
Very likely that the TVs will be 8k long before the content is readily available. The broadcasters around here are still sorting out the switch from analog to digital. All the broadcasts are digital but every so often, we get told to rescan your TV due to required broadcast frequency switches. And the switch to 8k broadcasts involves a tuner spec upgrade. Think converter box required if your doesn't have the new tuner.
 
I am hoping these 8k displays will force the relevant chip/board makers to finally upgrade to HDMI 2.1.

It's quite sad seeing all these 4k displays purport to be 10bit and 144Hz, but not have a connection standard that can actually drive that without dithering.
 
Shmee said:
I just got a 4K TV....
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I still use a 1080i TV. Only 4K device I have is my monitor. I've always thought it was senseless to be one of the early adopters spending thousands on the latest and greatest TVs when less than a year later they're a fraction of that price.
 
I don't know why the industry keeps putting "more dots" in the same space.

Do you know what I want to see?

IPS Glow & IPS BLB Fixed
TN Colors fixed.
VA smudging fixed
Freesync/Gsync standard
120hz+ standard
Better blacks all around (per pixel dimming/power control)
10 bit+ color standard on everything
the equivalent of "cable cards" for sat (this is the only reason I have cable).

In the meanwhile the broadcast industry (OTA/Cable/Sat) can figure out how to transmit 1080p to us without it looking terrible.
 
greenman said:
So would 8k need antialiasing? 4k screens don't need anti-aliasing and look great. If there's even less pixels, would there become an issue or would that be even better?
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My 4K screens certainly need anti-aliasing. Like high refresh rates on CRT monitors, this is an individual UMMV thing.

4K was a lame attempt at increasing the "quality" of 1080P. 8K is the same thing all over again. 4K! 4K! 4K! is a marketing nightmare as 8K! 8K! 8K! will be. Image quality is a complex issue for which resolution is only a part. Resolution is relatively easy for manufacturers to increase while they ignore problems with LCD technology like motion blurring and blacks that look like grays. Granted, 4K desktops on 40" screens are nice for productivity, real life video is another kettle of fish.

All the display manufactures are doing is passing the buck to the content providers to try to get another taste of that sweet, sweet high from the entire population replacing their TVs again. They have never gotten over the rush from the analog TV to digital TV conversion and wish to repeat it - very much like Nvidia having crypto withdrawal today.

-Mike
 
/dev/null said:
I don't know why the industry keeps putting "more dots" in the same space.

Do you know what I want to see?

IPS Glow & IPS BLB Fixed
TN Colors fixed.
VA smudging fixed
Freesync/Gsync standard
120hz+ standard
Better blacks all around (per pixel dimming/power control)
10 bit+ color standard on everything
the equivalent of "cable cards" for sat (this is the only reason I have cable).

In the meanwhile the broadcast industry (OTA/Cable/Sat) can figure out how to transmit 1080p to us without it looking terrible.
Click to expand...

+1, all of these items affect perceived image quality much more than making pixels that are already imperceptible even smaller. Even better, with the exception of 120Hz, do not require any modification of current content. Those features would make even old DVDs look better.

-Mike
 
/dev/null said:
I don't know why the industry keeps putting "more dots" in the same space.

Do you know what I want to see?

IPS Glow & IPS BLB Fixed
TN Colors fixed.
VA smudging fixed
Freesync/Gsync standard
120hz+ standard
Better blacks all around (per pixel dimming/power control)
10 bit+ color standard on everything
the equivalent of "cable cards" for sat (this is the only reason I have cable).

In the meanwhile the broadcast industry (OTA/Cable/Sat) can figure out how to transmit 1080p to us without it looking terrible.
Click to expand...

I'm usually all for more dots but I have to totally agree. From 1080p to 4k, we're barely using most things to their fullest potential. From physical to streaming there's no media presently available that even reaches what 4k is truly capable of now and this is just in regards to watching things.

Those speaking of the 8k per eye for VR are waiting for more than display tech since I doubt even 2 Titans could pull that off. For any kind of gaming we've been stuck in an obscene cycle of catch-up for over a decade and we're still barely getting caught up to 4k. TBH we've only recently begun to see GPU's that can truly dominate anything at 1080p and now the pendulum has shifted back to the CPU for high FPS.
 
Frankly I'm thinking scaling and sharper text and images. On a 15" laptop with 4K we run 200% and it looks fantastic to the eye. Things are tack sharp. Now 4K on a 15.6" is the same as 8K on a 31.5" so if you have seen this you already know what 8K on a desktop monitor will look like. Or look at your phones. Dot pitch isn't always to make things appear smaller, scaling "can" work well in many cases and give you some very, very fine images.

Now I might be alone in this but, to me, I'm thinking that a 38" 7680x3200 screen might sound painful but I'd bet properly scaled it would look amazing. Look at people who are looking at the 8K Dell monitor now, or the 5120x2160 34" panel. You can't use either of these at native resolution but they do give a great image when scaled. I know scaling isn't perfect yet, but give this a few more years and, just like phones, you probably won't even think twice about scaling. It'll be automatic. Now the real deal is can GPU's drive all those pixels? Not yet but they will be able to.

High end SLR's are already capturing images of this resolution and even higher. Phones have more DPI than this already just in smaller slices. I think you'll be quite pleased when this tech becomes accessible to the broader audience and chip makers will enjoy spawning a need for another generation of performance improvement. Perhaps this will even come along with the ability to roll up your display and take it with you. :)
 
After 8K they can focus on the fundamentals: display method, color accuracy, grayscale, linearity, brightness, uniformity and lower persistence (retention, blur). Please let the race to shrink the pixels finish ASAP (reminds me of the SoC nanometers race) so we can go back with full attention to tackle the very stagnant downsides to sample and hold displays (LCD, OLED).
 
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How about adding HDR first. HDR monitors are very rare.
How about 4K monitors with higher refresh rates than 60hz.

Come on. Lets perfect 4K first.
 
When I got my 4k 40" monitor, I remember thinking, I cannot wait for 8k monitors. Surprised there aren't more people mentioning productivity of a PC and a high res huge monitor. Learning to code, but I work on plans for my business and this is probably very close to working on 1:1 plotted plans. Cannot wait for this!
 
/dev/null said:
I don't know why the industry keeps putting "more dots" in the same space.

Do you know what I want to see?

IPS Glow & IPS BLB Fixed
TN Colors fixed.
VA smudging fixed
Freesync/Gsync standard
120hz+ standard
Better blacks all around (per pixel dimming/power control)
10 bit+ color standard on everything
the equivalent of "cable cards" for sat (this is the only reason I have cable).

In the meanwhile the broadcast industry (OTA/Cable/Sat) can figure out how to transmit 1080p to us without it looking terrible.
Click to expand...


Preach it!

Still in the 1080p Plasma camp too, IQ still blows away most high end sets that I see over at friends houses.

Last monitor I bought and was pleasantly surprised by was an Acer 27" VA panel; like wow, real contrast and blacks compared to IPS. Only have run in to a few instances of VA smudging. Still feel consistent frame rate over 100 adds more to my experience than bumps in resolution.
 
Can we just get quality 4k panels first? The amount of bandwidth needed for 8k content isn't remotely possible right now.
 
tetris42 said:
Serious question: What's the answer for legacy applications that don't scale in Windows that have text or icons smaller than a postage stamp at these resolutions? Just have Windows zoom enabled all the time?
Click to expand...

Replace them with non-legacy applications.

I'm dealing with this at my office, and the number one reason to replace these old legacy applications has to do with network security.
Most these apps haven't been updated for years and are major security holes.

Only advantage I have, is that some of these apps are so old, they where already out of date before the hackers where even born :p
 
nutzo said:
Replace them with non-legacy applications.

I'm dealing with this at my office, and the number one reason to replace these old legacy applications has to do with network security.
Most these apps haven't been updated for years and are major security holes.

Only advantage I have, is that some of these apps are so old, they where already out of date before the hackers where even born :p
Click to expand...
That only works for general purpose stuff. I have plenty of specialized programs over the years there are no newer equivalents because it's too niche.
 
Not sure what all the whining is about, this is an all-round win because it's telling us HDMI 2.1 is ready to go. If you don't want an 8k screen, don't buy one. If today's market tells you anything, it's that 1080p will be around for awhile yet, so this is only adding options to the table.

UberHz peeps will be able to move up in resolution or Hz as desired.

VR peeps will get better HMDs.

FrameSyncing peeps get a baked in option.

UW peeps will finally have the option of joining said UberHz peeps.

PixelPushers will have their horizons expanded.

Bargain peeps will see prices come down.

I'll be able to rock 4K/120Hz/VRR/HDR/Atmos, but as you see, we'll have plenty of other options.
 
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