Panasonic L32S1 32" 1080P IPS LCD TV $413 AC Shipped @ 6th ave electronics

Discussion in '[H]ot Deals Discussions' started by SJetski71, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. SJetski71

    SJetski71 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Not sure, but i read it over and over and over again at AVS, people are even posting lag tests with dual-screens and stopwatches to illustrate it.

    Updated my review above btw
    , got home from work to notice the red text issue is slightly worse than i initially described. Looking up how to access the hidden service menu to see if i can tone down the heavy reds a tad, maybe that will help with red text also. Doing this mostly for my own curiosity because smudgy but readable red text is not a deal breaker for me ;)

    Blazestorm, haven't dug out my camera yet, but i'm trying to be really picky about overall text quality, and it looks mega sharp to me. Certain bold fonts have that aliased look to them, not smudged though (get what i'm saying ?). I won't forget ya though, and i will take a few macro shots.

    Be back in a little while with directions on how to access the hidden service menu, plus new results after i've toned down the reds.


    Good to see you here also, bumped into you a few times in those AVS forum threads :)
     
  2. Synomenon

    Synomenon [H]ardness Supreme

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    Thanks. I forgot to note that the comparison picture was from a Blu-Ray movie on a PS3 connected to each via HDMI (some kind of distribution box splitting the signal).
     
  3. SJetski71

    SJetski71 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Accessing the service menu on L32S1 and L37S1 (credit jice from AVS)

    IMPORTANT: Make sure to write all the default values before you change anything in the hidden service menu. Make one wrong move and you'll be stuck with bad settings!!!

    Wow, navigating the hidden service menu is a pain imho. Counter-intuitive and real easy to make a wrong move. Proceed with caution.

    Edit: going to try adjusting the reds another time, looks too easy to make a wrong move here, and no easy way of correcting it.

    More tweaking info here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1157191
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2010
  4. Fenix793

    Fenix793 Gawd

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    LOL I was so happy to finally be in the service menu and then when I saw it I just thought W...T...F. I'm going to hold off on messing around with the menu until I can figure out how to get around in there. I did adjust the normal menu settings to those mentioned in the AVS thread and picture quality has improved over what I had it set to. Honestly the picture is so good I almost don't care about the reds. If anyone figures the menu out please post here with results.
     
  5. venm11

    venm11 2[H]4U

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    Yeah, that's the so-called "input lag". I'm not as familliar with the Panny's but on samsung, it's around 120ms (easily perceptible) because of all the processing; "game mode" uses different algorithms for processing and gets that down to 25ms or so. I had a hard time fiddling with the Panny's in the store because of their "store mode".

    Speaking of which, one reason I thought the viewing angles were bad was because I couldn't fiddle with the brightness/contrast settings because of the store mode--- they're blasting light and making light bleed far too obvious, at least where I saw it. All LCDs have light bleed at an angle to some extent, which dynamic backlighting helps to hide. Supposedly the brand-new sharp+sony panels have eliminated it.
     
  6. SJetski71

    SJetski71 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I can confirm that store mode, and the default mode out of the box are way too bright for PC usage, it'll kill your eyes. I did have what i would call the flashlight effect in the lower left corner of the screen (spreads in about 5 inches or so). i practically eliminated it by lowering the brightness down to normal PC levels, and placing the TV another 6 inches back (3ft distance) which i found odd because that would make it seem like a small, very localized viewing angle issue.

    Pretty sure dynamic backlighting is labeled "A.I. Picture" in the Panny menu, and yea it has a noticeable effect when enabled.

    Oh yea, meant to clarify, red pics and gif artwork are not smudged, only true text, that's it. Looking closely it looks like the red bleeds over slightly into the surrounding pixels.
     
  7. Fenix793

    Fenix793 Gawd

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    I noticed the same thing on my TV and turned down brightness and backlight and things seem ok now. I had previously disabled AI Picture but I'll try enabling if it actually helps.

    As for the red text take a look at the HardOCP homepage. I've noticed that any sharp red edge tends to be fuzzy or blurry like some of hard edges used on [H]. The button for the forums would be a good example. This is a little frustrating but ultimately red text and hard edges are pretty rare. I use the TV all the time to read stuff and only bring things over to my 2005fpw if I'm doing some work. For games and movies this TV absolutely owns. I could never go back to the 2005fpw for gaming. Once I get the reds issue figured out this TV will be damn near perfect.
     
  8. SJetski71

    SJetski71 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That's odd, i'm looking at the HardOCP home page right now and the red edges seem sharp and filled along pixel lines. When i plant my eyes on the screen, i can almost force myself to see red spillover, but as soon as i blink it disappears. Maybe i have my backlight set lower than you do?
     
  9. venm11

    venm11 2[H]4U

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    Can the panny set arbitrary inputs (I'm assuming you're using HDMI w/1080p) as game mode or pc mode? Some TVs treat these differently and turn off certain picture processing. If you're using VGA, that could explain intermittent issues.

    But... that's interesting. If you blink and it goes away... that almost suggests something with your eyes? I actually have this problem, with red/blue and red/green edges - they appear to overlap at times.
     
  10. Blazestorm

    Blazestorm [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well I'm trying out an Insignia 32" 1080p from Bestbuy... for $500 + tax it's surprisingly good... but that's $550 vs. $400 for a Vizio (tax included / bing cashback) from Sears... and then this one for $400 ish... advantage to the Sears one is I could pick it up today.

    The downside is that they have a poor return policy if I recall, and if the Tv doesn't work out I'd get hit with a restocking fee.

    Edit: It does appear there is a quite a bit of input lag... playing games it feels like a solid few frames before I get any movement, granted it's smooth and looks great but it's still noticably delayed, besides that the TV looks great and I'm impressed with bestbuy.

    But I think I'll still be returning it... If someone could take picturse of their panasonic and it looks similar/better than this Insignia then I'd buy it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2010
  11. Blazestorm

    Blazestorm [H]ardness Supreme

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    Anyone got pics? Haha, I'm almost desperate...

    I noticed the same thing with red text on this screen as well, and pink text (Zune Software).. I hope it can be adjusted with the internal menu ;)

    EDIT: Well I actually found a 23" IPS 1080p screen for ~$300... I didn't think any existed but it's near perfect for what I was looking for before... I'd rather spend a bit more and get eyefinity with those than have a 32" 1080P LCD honestly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2010
  12. Fenix793

    Fenix793 Gawd

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    Very interesting the edges on mine are definitely fuzzy. Perhaps a difference in 32 vs 37? I will try lowering the backlight but its only with reds.

    Blaze I will take some pics when I get home. Ihave the 37 inch version though there could be differences.
     
  13. Blazestorm

    Blazestorm [H]ardness Supreme

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    No worries, I don't think I'm going this route anymore... I was initially planning it because I couldn't find a decent 1920 x 1080 (or 1200) screen that was IPS / PVA w/ 3 yr warranty for close to $300...

    Until I stumbled upon that NEC... which is exactly what I wanted... so I'm returning the Insignia and using my 3007WFP-HC until the NEC arrives, probably order 2 more at a later date...

    Anyways, thanks in advance if you already have done it, I'm sure others are as picky as I am.
     
  14. SJetski71

    SJetski71 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    1) The heck if i know :p. I know what it is that you're asking, but if i'm still thinking straight, then the answer is yes. I know both rear hdmi inputs can be set to "game mode" and perform seemingly the same, i'm sure i'll find out eventually. For the record, yes i'm using hdmi port 1 @ 1080P, 59hz with an ATI 4870 and a dvi-to-hdmi cable.

    2) Just checked the HardOCP main page again with some good eyes, and there is no bleed on the red borders. And if there is bleed then it's so feint i cannot detect it (20/20 vision + dark room).



    Oh yea, this jpeg is close to how red fonts appear on my monitor, the thinner red font came out looking a little worse when i converted from BMP to jpeg and doesn't look quite that bad in real life:

    >jpeg> [​IMG] <jpeg<

    Blazestorm, outside of an actual photo, does this jpeg ^^^ give you a better idea? I realize you've moved on to other ideas, but in case you were curious...
     
  15. Blazestorm

    Blazestorm [H]ardness Supreme

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    Nope, that's actually exactly what the Insignia was doing... the white text looks about as clear as my 3007WFP, but red/pink text looked really weird like that.

    I don't know how else to explain it. But it was very noticable to me and I wouldn't have been able to stand it. That and the input lag / response time was significant enough with HDMI that I wouldn't use it for games.
     
  16. SJetski71

    SJetski71 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Bump, deal still alive, though it's around $10 more this time.

    Using both the coupon code and Bing cashback though will lower the price back down to the original deal price ~ $413 shipped after discounts.

    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________


    Found a partial fix for the red font issue. Set the sharpness setting somewhere between 5 - 9, that clears it up a little bit. Not sure if this adds any processing and lag though (?). Funny thing is that red fonts look a little better in games than they do on the windows desktop.

    This TV excels for SD video playback on the PC, even mediocre divx/xvid videos look better on it. Motion focus def helps with high motion movie/sports scenes and the audio leveler works as advertised for those obnoxiously loud commercials.

    Here's the user manual: http://www.abt.com/images/products/...ent=Driving Revenue Inc&utm_term=ABT Redirect

    And here's a cheap compatible replacement remote with universal function: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330356680855

    Here's the original remote: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PANASONIC-N2QAYB000321-REMOTE-CONTROL_W0QQitemZ320464829612
     
  17. RC30

    RC30 Limp Gawd

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  18. SJetski71

    SJetski71 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yep it works fine, you won't see it on checkout, but as long as you use the same window then you're assured to get it. Worst case scenario you contact a Bing support rep and they'd fix it for you.

    It's $379 after clicking the instant rebate, then another 4-7% cash back would bring the price down to around $360ish shipped.

    Good one, thanks for posting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2010
  19. punkrockpolak

    punkrockpolak Limp Gawd

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    Thanks for posting the new deal RC30! I saw SJetski's post about this TV in the LG thread which brought me here. Now I'm eagerly awaiting my new monitor :D
     
  20. SJetski71

    SJetski71 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Update, after setting the sharpness to "7" in the TV menu, i got the red fonts to look like this now:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I captured and preserved them in BMP format, they are very close to what i see on my screen.

    Potential pitfall: Not sure if raising sharpness from "0" to "7" adds any additional processing and lag (?). I suppose when running windows you can set it to "7" and when gaming you can lower it to zero. Would be a PITA to do it often though.

    Edit: Just noticed these screenshots are jpegs, my original files are still .BMP, i guess photobucket converted them. Outside of the tiny artifacts you might see, they're still very close to what i see on my actual screen.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2010
  21. Fenix793

    Fenix793 Gawd

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    Interesting. As soon as I saw the post about changing sharpness I tried it out on my screen and it didn't appear to make any change to red text. Maybe 7 isn't high enough lol or my particular TV has reds that are just completely whack.
     
  22. venm11

    venm11 2[H]4U

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    Wait a minute. Is windows doing this through ... uh..... what'sitcalled. That thing where it tries to use the assumed positioning of RGB subpixels to anti-alias better for tighter font edges... "cleartype"?? Anyway, many PC lcds use columnar RGB arrangement and many TV lcds use a non-grid patterning which would produce inconsistent results, especially with the TV then trying to sharpen windows' processing..
     
  23. SJetski71

    SJetski71 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The $360 Buy.com deal is still alive by the way.



    Those results are with Cleartype off, had cleartype off from day 1 as a matter of fact (had to disable for troubleshooting purposes, and left if off). In the case of red fonts, enabling the TV's sharpness option helped the red fonts to a degree, and didn't seem to hurt the regular fonts.

    I used different sized fonts in my example pics just so people would have an idea on how they would all look (i didn't use BOLD on any of them either).

    My big question is if enabling the TV's "sharpness" feature adds any processing and lag.

    Could be a few different reasons, perhaps because the pixels are larger on your 37", or just the nature of the panels the 37" uses...who knows?

    I hear some people tried raising sharpness as high as "10", worth a shot i guess.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  24. Droban

    Droban [H]Lite

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    I have got this TV looking pretty nicely for my taste after a bit of tweaking. I have not done anything in the hidden menu though. I am using it as a secondary display, wall-mounted above my desk / 22" acer.

    This TV is awesome for watching videos - I have watched several videos in 720p, it is very impressive (1080p is flawless) - and lesser quality video scales very nicely.

    PC gaming is superb, I have played Left 4 Dead 2 mainly, and it is a great experience. My acer is rated at 5ms, but the panasonic seems to have a quicker response (the size and contrast ratio probably don't hurt either ;))

    As far as text, yes it has the "blurry red text" issue, but I think I'll stick to the 22" acer for text related tasks. When I use the Panasonic to read text, red text is pretty much a non-issue for me. I think the overall size and dot pitch are going to play a much larger role. Solution would be to make sure you have enough viewing distance!
     
  25. SJetski71

    SJetski71 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Bump:

    Now available straight from Amazon's warehouse deals for $412 shipped, brand new, no cashback or coupons necessary. It's fulfilled by Amazon, enjoys the same amazon return policy, and eligible for Prime.

    Link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...ef=pd_luc_mri?_encoding=UTF8&m=A2L77EE7U53NWQ

    If that link doesn't work then scroll down till you see the $412 price here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001U3YK48/ref=dp_olp_new_map?ie=UTF8&condition=new

    This is an especially good deal imho due to Amazon's excellent return and exchange policy.

    Edit: only 2 left in stock (?)
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2010
  26. Vertigo528

    Vertigo528 Limp Gawd

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    Picked this TV up through this thread as use as a primary PC monitor. Everything is good except for the blurry red text. It's not a huge deal but is distracting when I come across it. I haven't found a way to totally fix it. Normal text looks fine after turning off clear type and turning the sharpness way down (10).

    Does anyone have any recommended settings that they use for this display?
     
  27. SJetski71

    SJetski71 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Ideal settings all depend on how you're going to be using it. More often than not with PC use you should be disabling the picture enchancements, which may or may not include "sharpness", but once again it all depends on your usage pattern and visual preference.
     
  28. Droban

    Droban [H]Lite

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    My settings:

    • Picture Mode: Cinema
    • Backlight: 50
    • Contrast: 100
    • Brightness: 56
    • Color: 49
    • Tint: +4
    • Sharpness: 0
    • Color temp.: Warm
    • Color mgmt.: off
    • x.v.Color: Off
    • A.I. picture: off
    • Video NR: off
    • Motion Focus:Off
    • Black level:Light
    • HD size: Size 2

    This works very well for regular desktop use, full-screen video, and games.
     
  29. phiquach

    phiquach Limp Gawd

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    so... what would happen if i get 3 of these for eyefinity? :D
     
  30. SJetski71

    SJetski71 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You'd have 3.5" of bezel between them ;)
     
  31. Vertigo528

    Vertigo528 Limp Gawd

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    Exactly what I was looking for. I'll give this a try tonight. I'm assuming, though, that the blurry red text is still there? Bold blue text also seems to have the problem. When put against normal text, there was almost a 3D effect produced. Pretty distracting on an otherwise very good display.
     
  32. SJetski71

    SJetski71 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    There are many other settings that look good by the way. I'm not on my panasonic right now but from what i remember my settings seem quite the opposite of his.

    Not sure if "Tint" adds any additional processing + lag btw, i know i have mine set to "0".

    The only problem i seem to have besides red text is Italic bold blue text, but those are rare, just found my first example of it last night..
     
  33. Vertigo528

    Vertigo528 Limp Gawd

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    I'm sure there's plenty of settings that look good. I just want to try out what other people are using to see how it goes. If your settings are very different than his, I'd like to try those as well. I'll either use those settings or tweak them a bit for my use.

    The red blurry text was distracting in games like ME2 or Dragon Age, where I did not meet a certain requirement and it was displayed in red. If I could fix that problem then I would be perfectly happy with it.

    Coming from a 20WMGX2, I knew I would have to make some compromises by using a HDTV as a monitor, but I didn't think blurry red/blue text would be one of them.
     
  34. SJetski71

    SJetski71 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    From what i read, a decent amount of LCD TV's have this problem, on the flipside those TV's that display crisp red text often have double/triple/quadruple the input lag as the panasonic, and yes this is when they are in "game mode" (source = AVS forums).

    There are tradeoffs with every make and model, literally. With this set you're getting the lowest overall lag of any LCD TV but certain colored/italic fonts are bad. Some people prefer a compromise, those certain TV sets that have "just" double the lag but crisp red text... depending on the game and person some people won't perceive this increase in lag, or care.

    Unfortunately, there is no current, perfect LCD TV to use as a monitor. It's up to us to decide which feature is more important, and what flaw(s) we're willing to live with. The only one that came close was the westinghouse LVM-w3, but that's technically a monitor and not a "TV".

    But in all seriousness, if it turns out to be that troublesome, perhaps you should consider a return or an exchange for a different brand?

    I consider myself pretty lucky, the games i play have red fonts, but they're not that blurry in the game as they are on the desktop, and are totally legible.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2010
  35. Fenix793

    Fenix793 Gawd

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    True story. Before I got my L37S1 I bought a LG 32LH30 because there was a chance for an IPS panel. I ended up getting one with a VA panel and not only were the reds blurry but colored text in general was kind of blurry. 2 days later the Panasonic was on sale for $1 more than I paid for the LH30 so it went back to BB and I kept the Panasonic.

    Remember these are TVs first and foremost and as TVs most of the LCD TVs out there deliver. When you decide to use one as a monitor you are using it in a way it wasn't really meant to be used so the fact that these Panasonics are as good as they are is pretty sweet. My reds are still blurry but at this point I really don't care. Video(SD and HD) looks incredible. The way I game has completely changed since the screen more or less fills my field of view. And general text (Windows/Firefox) is crisp and clear. I'd even go as far to say that you could use this as a primary monitor if you had to but I use my 2005FPW for text and reading since it's generally better for that and also it's closer.

    Long story short despite the reds this TV rocks. If you wanted to take it away from me you'd have to pry it out of my cold, dead fingers.