Overtime Now Optional at Rockstar Studio after Allegations of "100-Hour Weeks"

STEvil said:
Been a slow day today due to machines eating rocks and how flat the last bit has been after getting snowed on 3 times.
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Curious what color? I designed the sensors in one of them that do stone detection.

Just got done with a couple hundred hour weeks due to requalification for parts shortages. Electronics supply market is a blood bath right now.

Working like that just takes all the fucks given out of me for months.
 
I was doing 70 hours a week early this year, that shit burned me out after 4 months. I personally feel like 70 is too much but I'll most likely be doing it again come this January. Work and sleep, that is the life man.
 
When I was younger, I was paid hourly and used to volunteer for any over time I could get. Usually working 50-60 hours a week.

Many years later I worked on salary, so didn't work much overtime.
Then the company started having problems getting techs to work after hours or on weekends, even if they gave comp time.
So, they started paying us 25% of whatever was charged for after hours work.
Since this was billed at time & half or double time, the hourly rate was high, and we had plenty of volunteers :D
I sometime made over $1,000 working a weekend.

Now that I'm getting old, I don't want to work the extra time.
As the main IT person, if there is a problem I need to work late of over the weekend to fix it, but then I can take off comp time.
My hours are flexible, as long keep everything running.
I could probably earn more somewhere else, but at this stage in my life the flexible time is more important.
 
Unter Dog said:
Curious what color? I designed the sensors in one of them that do stone detection.

Just got done with a couple hundred hour weeks due to requalification for parts shortages. Electronics supply market is a blood bath right now.

Working like that just takes all the fucks given out of me for months.
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NH 9070's. After yearly 10k+ repair bills per machine we're going back to something with an actual stone trap rather than just the pressure plate. Today I spent 4 hours for two machines straightening the elephant ears due to rocks that slide over the detection plate.

I should mention part of the issue is the drum for the feeder chain gets stuck upwards due to material wedging in the adjustment setting on the side of the feeder house which gives excess room .. but honestly the NH's are made of glass, they have a lot of other issues as well.
 
Rathor said:
Who works just 40 hours a week? 100 is a bit crazy but 60 is healthy.
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I used to when I first started out of college. Now as I am higher in the ladder with lots of responsibilities and more people under me I went from strict 40 hr work weeks to 50hrs normally and 60-70hrs under a deadline crunch.
 
I drive transit. I just finished my 4th week of 60 hours (the federally mandated limit) since we are super short staffed and nobody is able to hire enough drivers. Love the extra dough, but my brain is turning to fog. I usually work an extra shift most weeks for some guilt-free spending money, but my current schedule allows me to fit in six 8-11 hour days in a row, so I am making bank. Next week I will have earned my full year's pay equivalent if I didn't work OT. I already know that I'm starting to edge on being unsafe to drive, and my supervisor has been giving me more of the "drive occasionally, sit around a lot" disabled passenger shifts at the end of the week, but she knows that all of us busting our ass for the company are starting to reach the point where bigger accidents will happen that shouldn't.
 
I once did about 230 hours in a month with no days off due to working 2 jobs. NEVER AGAIN! I think it has been about 8 years since I last worked overtime. I am not even allowed to work more than 40 hours a week at my current job, but there were a few times I asked for it due to the workload.
 
///AMG said:
I used to when I first started out of college. Now as I am higher in the ladder with lots of responsibilities and more people under me I went from strict 40 hr work weeks to 50hrs normally and 60-70hrs under a deadline crunch.
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Pretty much this. My life experience tells me that you start off with "normal" hours, and as you approach your peak earnings your responsibility - and pay - increase substantially, along with more hours. That said, most people I know eventually slide down the other side of peak and reduce hours towards the end of their career.
 
Joust said:
Pretty much this. My life experience tells me that you start off with "normal" hours, and as you approach your peak earnings your responsibility - and pay - increase substantially, along with more hours. That said, most people I know eventually slide down the other side of peak and reduce hours towards the end of their career.
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I generally agree with this. When I started off it was less work, and not as hard. Then I got more work that's harder, and eventually when I get more experience and used to these large and more complex project I think it will go down overall. Most of the older guys know how to do things really well and fast.
 
[21CW]killerofall said:
I once did about 230 hours in a month with no days off due to working 2 jobs. NEVER AGAIN! I think it has been about 8 years since I last worked overtime. I am not even allowed to work more than 40 hours a week at my current job, but there were a few times I asked for it due to the workload.
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230 hours in a month averages to just over 8 hour days. It likely was way worse because of being two jobs.

I just finished working 12.5 hour days from Sept. 22nd to Oct. 19th. So damn glad to be laid off and done with that OT. Local nuke plant had a short refuel outage. Can’t really imagine working those extra couple hours to hit 100 per week. It’s not just physically exhausting it’s mentally exhausting.
 
Nolan7689 said:
230 hours in a month averages to just over 8 hour days. It likely was way worse because of being two jobs.

I just finished working 12.5 hour days from Sept. 22nd to Oct. 19th. So damn glad to be laid off and done with that OT. Local nuke plant had a short refuel outage. Can’t really imagine working those extra couple hours to hit 100 per week. It’s not just physically exhausting it’s mentally exhausting.
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I was working 40 hours during the week and something like 6 hours per day on the weekends. I even once did 10 hours in one of those days as well. 230 is close to what it was. I am making about double now then what I did in that month, still only working 40 hours.
 
Optional. Yes I'm sure. They are going to go from a company asking 100 hours a week to letting people work 40 and go home. Sure sure... let me guess there also going to get a paid pension, 8 weeks of vacation a year, and massive xmas bonuses.

I would think working for such a company choosing the optional path will for sure be the road to advancement, raises and in general a pleasent work life.
 
Nope, goes against my work ethic.
8 hrs sleep.
8 hrs play.
8 hrs work.
Hopes the pay's worth it, had my fill of overnight working.
 
I don't understand these stories. Are their managers that absolutely terrible at workflow and time management? They have years, sometimes decades, of experience.. after that long they should know how long this dance takes.
This is the definition of insanity.


On a side note, I don't understand how people still think a 5/8 work week is good for you. It's been well known and slowly being proven that 2 days off is not sufficient to wind down the mind before returning to work. This is why businesses with 4/10 schedules show significantly more productivity and higher employee satisfaction. This old guard nonsense clinging to high hour work weeks as a means of increased productivity really need to stop. A person only has a certain amount of effort in them. The only people who should exceed that point are emergency services, military personnel, and farmers and to be entirely honest only because their workspace requires the human bend to nature.
 
If you work in software, you understand this: People that know software, know what scales and what does not. People who don't , assume it's like a factory...you add warm bodies and shit magically scales.

We know differently of course, that software is sort of art and science because there are a million ways to skin the cat, and best practice is largely dependent upon structure and oversight in any given company: Anyone else in software for more than 10 years want to talk about organizations and their levels of management versus non-management? RIght, we'd be here for *YEARS*....

Rockstar asking for 100h weeks is insane but it makes sense.....I mean its insane and I'd let myself get fired and then sue the living shit out of them. Sure you'd never work in an AAA studio again but so what, tkae your payout and retire. Deadlines are deadlines.....people love to shit on IT workers but then ignore all the late-night off-hours installs, compiles, recoveries from shit that goes ever so sligthly wrong and...of course.....there is no test *quite like production*, eh?

I digress......this sucks, it does need to be pushed back upon, but the reasons for it happening are not confusing or head-scratching: When you're going to ship something that will sell in the hundreds of millions....you ask for some extra effort. If the teams were like 30 people...one thing. IF they are hundreds, you're going to assume you have enough talent at the table to handle that kind of burn-down.
 
I can imagine the manager standing up in front of the developers and saying -- Attention everyone, overtime is now "optional".

giphy.gif
 
Nafensoriel said:
I don't understand these stories. Are their managers that absolutely terrible at workflow and time management? They have years, sometimes decades, of experience.. after that long they should know how long this dance takes.
This is the definition of insanity.


On a side note, I don't understand how people still think a 5/8 work week is good for you. It's been well known and slowly being proven that 2 days off is not sufficient to wind down the mind before returning to work. This is why businesses with 4/10 schedules show significantly more productivity and higher employee satisfaction. This old guard nonsense clinging to high hour work weeks as a means of increased productivity really need to stop. A person only has a certain amount of effort in them. The only people who should exceed that point are emergency services, military personnel, and farmers and to be entirely honest only because their workspace requires the human bend to nature.
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The sad thing is, any time a topic like this is posted on the internet, you inevitably have a large crowd of people bragging about working 60/70+ hours per week. I don't know what it is about our culture that makes working those hours a badge of honor, but I'm here to say it isn't a badge of honor by any stretch. As I said, I can understand it if you're the business owner or if you're getting paid OT and need the money, but salaried folks who do this for years on end are suckers.

And honestly, I think half of the people who say that aren't being entirely honest either. My wife's friend is one of these people who tries to brag and impress people and when they were out with other friends once, claimed she worked 60 hours per week. My wife called her on it, because this friend arrived at work every day between 8:30 and 9 and was home by 4:30/5 at the very latest. So in reality, she probably wasn't even consistently hitting 40 hours per week.
 
IndyColtsFan said:
The sad thing is, any time a topic like this is posted on the internet, you inevitably have a large crowd of people bragging about working 60/70+ hours per week. I don't know what it is about our culture that makes working those hours a badge of honor, but I'm here to say it isn't a badge of honor by any stretch. As I said, I can understand it if you're the business owner or if you're getting paid OT and need the money, but salaried folks who do this for years on end are suckers.

And honestly, I think half of the people who say that aren't being entirely honest either. My wife's friend is one of these people who tries to brag and impress people and when they were out with other friends once, claimed she worked 60 hours per week. My wife called her on it, because this friend arrived at work every day between 8:30 and 9 and was home by 4:30/5 at the very latest. So in reality, she probably wasn't even consistently hitting 40 hours per week.
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https://www.cnbc.com/2015/01/26/working-more-than-50-hours-makes-you-less-productive.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stop-lying-about-how-much-you-work/

Yes, people lie about how long they work. Also, 50+ hours is unproductive.

Companies will work you to death if you're passionate. And who doesn't want to work at a well known game company? Many out of college think it's their dream job. There are thousands of resumes, of people who are willing to do almost anything for every person at the company, so it's burn them out, and get fresh new blood in. Some will drink the Kool-Aid to think it's a badge of honor about how bad their life really is.
 
Nafensoriel said:
On a side note, I don't understand how people still think a 5/8 work week is good for you. It's been well known and slowly being proven that 2 days off is not sufficient to wind down the mind before returning to work. This is why businesses with 4/10 schedules show significantly more productivity and higher employee satisfaction. This old guard nonsense clinging to high hour work weeks as a means of increased productivity really need to stop.
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The 4-10 schedule is absolutely fucking awful. The “perk” of a 3 day weekend is an outright lie, typically that Friday is spent doing all the shit you are unable to do Monday through Thursday either because everything is closed (banks and such) or because you’re actually that much more tired.

I’ve never heard the BS that two days off isn’t enough time for the mind to unwind, I’d hardly call it a well known fact. As for the increased productivity, that’s because on a 10 hour day the amount of break/lunch time is unchanged so you work more hours straight per day uninterrupted, and without proper compensation. Higher worker satisfaction is just due to the placebo effect of thinking “Sweet 3 days off!”

I’ve worked both schedules extensively I’ll always push for 5-8s unless my employer wants to pay me OT for the last two hours of 4-10s.

Funny story, this past spring I was sick and tired of the 4-10 bullshit so I worked 4-8s instead. Great schedule, highly recommend.
 
Nytegard said:
https://www.cnbc.com/2015/01/26/working-more-than-50-hours-makes-you-less-productive.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stop-lying-about-how-much-you-work/

Yes, people lie about how long they work. Also, 50+ hours is unproductive.

Companies will work you to death if you're passionate. And who doesn't want to work at a well known game company? Many out of college think it's their dream job. There are thousands of resumes, of people who are willing to do almost anything for every person at the company, so it's burn them out, and get fresh new blood in. Some will drink the Kool-Aid to think it's a badge of honor about how bad their life really is.
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Another thing is the games, free food, etc. companies will supply. People think that's cool, but reading between the lines, the company is doing that to keep you at the office so you'll work longer hours.

I understand passion - when I was younger, I did work longer hours and would even come home and test things in my home lab to learn new technologies. As I got older, I realized the hard truth - I had no life and the years were slipping by quickly. So, I decided I had to stick to a 40 hour work week and work on my life outside of work with the additional free time I had. I think it was the best decision I ever made. I now work 40 hours per week and have done so for several years over a few different companies. I think *that* is a true badge of honor. :) I get top reviews and make six figures working in one of the lowest cost of living areas in the US. It can be done without working 70 hours per week for decades.
 
Joust said:
50-60 is normal. 100 is pretty much bullshit. Sure, the cats might be at work, but no one can do competent work for that long.
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IndyColtsFan said:
...I think half of the people who say that aren't being entirely honest either...
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Makes me think of Marissa Mayer bragging about achieving '130 hour' workweeks at Google by being 'strategic about her bathroom breaks.' Look how that worked out, she finally exploded and shit all over Yahoo.
 
Nolan7689 said:
The 4-10 schedule is absolutely fucking awful. The “perk” of a 3 day weekend is an outright lie, typically that Friday is spent doing all the shit you are unable to do Monday through Thursday either because everything is closed (banks and such) or because you’re actually that much more tired.

I’ve never heard the BS that two days off isn’t enough time for the mind to unwind, I’d hardly call it a well known fact. As for the increased productivity, that’s because on a 10 hour day the amount of break/lunch time is unchanged so you work more hours straight per day uninterrupted, and without proper compensation. Higher worker satisfaction is just due to the placebo effect of thinking “Sweet 3 days off!”

I’ve worked both schedules extensively I’ll always push for 5-8s unless my employer wants to pay me OT for the last two hours of 4-10s.

Funny story, this past spring I was sick and tired of the 4-10 bullshit so I worked 4-8s instead. Great schedule, highly recommend.
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Point in fact: about half (maybe more)the guys I know working four 10's actually work five days and collect on the fifth day. Or take a short day on friday (which is still OT).

Personally, my schedule is based more on the billing hour than the work-place hour. So, I work at 10pm, 8am, 12:23 pm. 5am. My standard workday is between 8 and 5, but it's demand-oriented.
 
I don't believe this for a second. They'll be keeping track of those that all of a sudden go from 100 hours a week to 40 during crunch time.
 
Got my own business.......60 is a short week,......you wanna eat, you got to work.

Woosies.
 
Nolan7689 said:
As for the increased productivity, that’s because on a 10 hour day the amount of break/lunch time is unchanged so you work more hours straight per day uninterrupted, and without proper compensation. Higher worker satisfaction is just due to the placebo effect of thinking “Sweet 3 days off!”

I’ve worked both schedules extensively I’ll always push for 5-8s unless my employer wants to pay me OT for the last two hours of 4-10s.
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I am expected to be in the office for 8.5 hours for an 8 hour day, due to the 30 minute lunch break. So if I did 4-10s it would really be 4-10.5s. There is no reduction in breaks. I think it would be interesting to try a 4-10 shift but my management won't allow it.
magoo said:
Got my own business.......60 is a short week,......you wanna eat, you got to work.

Woosies.
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You could hire someone else to help, but then you have to pay them. It really comes down to what is more important to you: the cash and doing it all your self, or your time off, less cash, and having someone else do some of the work?
 
I've worked at a couple places that had "expected" overtime. They don't officially mandate it, or even mention it, but people who don't put in ridiculous overtime hours don't last with the company. I was working 55-60 hours weeks, and they didn't like me very well. I'd still get all my work done early, but they'd complain that I was working hard enough. It is an absolutely miserable way to work and live. I HIGHLY recommend to people under those conditions to quit immediately and get a job at a reasonable employer. Employers like that don't deserve to have supporting staff, and therefore don't deserve to be operating.
 
[21CW]killerofall said:
I am expected to be in the office for 8.5 hours for an 8 hour day, due to the 30 minute lunch break. So if I did 4-10s it would really be 4-10.5s. There is no reduction in breaks. I think it would be interesting to try a 4-10 shift but my management won't allow it.
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It’s not a reduction of breaks(per day), just more work time between being interrupted by a break. That’s where they get the extra productivity.

You’ll do more work, work harder in the same amount of time and for the same pay. The company wins.
 
Rathor said:
Who works just 40 hours a week? 100 is a bit crazy but 60 is healthy.
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60 is unhealthy too if you aren't being paid for it. Hell, 60 is unhealthy if you ARE being paid for it. Maybe if you have no life, no spouse, no kids, and no travel can you live life that way constantly...but if you throw a switch on any one of those...somebody is suffering the consequences. But i'll look forward to your excuses on how i'm wrong even though scientific data will argue otherwise.
 
First union averaged 110+ hours for 6 months, 1400 3.12 severs to migrate, lost 21lbs and was miserable.
Left to go to IBM

IBM ASM development 100+ hours for 4 months, eye strain and hand numbness. after close to 12 years left because of everything needs OT per management.
Left to go to Adaptec

Adaptec 60+ hours was the norm, upper management created golden parachutes, sold the company to outsource, laid over 4k employees off in one day.
Metrics show I was 300 percent more productive than 10 counterparts in foreign country.

NetApp 50 hours was the average.

Just about any company I have been at no matter the state required some OT.
 
Sure it is optional... but don't expect to be re-hired on the next project though.

I mean... it is called 'crunch time' for a reason, and there is also a reason why a lot of these people are not paid much. This OT is built into the budget. A studio builds up, hits crunch where people actually make a livable wage, and then everyone is let go when the project is finished. It may then be 2-4 months before getting on the next project, so you need that OT pay to get you through the lean months. Work super hard, then crash, then re-train for the next gig. It isn't like they are working 100 hour weeks year round like other industries.
 
Nolan7689 said:
The 4-10 schedule is absolutely fucking awful. The “perk” of a 3 day weekend is an outright lie, typically that Friday is spent doing all the shit you are unable to do Monday through Thursday either because everything is closed (banks and such) or because you’re actually that much more tired.

I’ve never heard the BS that two days off isn’t enough time for the mind to unwind, I’d hardly call it a well known fact. As for the increased productivity, that’s because on a 10 hour day the amount of break/lunch time is unchanged so you work more hours straight per day uninterrupted, and without proper compensation. Higher worker satisfaction is just due to the placebo effect of thinking “Sweet 3 days off!”

I’ve worked both schedules extensively I’ll always push for 5-8s unless my employer wants to pay me OT for the last two hours of 4-10s.

Funny story, this past spring I was sick and tired of the 4-10 bullshit so I worked 4-8s instead. Great schedule, highly recommend.
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You worked a compressed week schedule not a properly run 4/10. A proper 4/10 rotates these days and once every 60 days provides the opportunity to utilize 2 vacation days to take 7 off. You can do a simple "tock" 4/10 but its less efficient for the business cost wise and generally results in the business shorting its labour budget.

The studies on this start in the 70s and continue on. It's not a placebo effect by any means but unfortunately, companies consider labour a resource and attempt cost-saving measures. If your company requires 8000 total manhours of work per week and you only have enough employees for 6000.. no schedule is going to be sufficient for worker health. A 4/8 as you described suggests you may have been attempting to much work during a day and simply decided to work a more reasonable amount. The nature of this type of "equation" is wonky simply because 1 roofer working 10 hours but doing 200 bundles isnt the same as another one working 10 hours and doing 400.
Also, the "business not open" wank is just wank. I live in bloody Canada currently where 24/7 wasn't a thing until the late 2000s. American's have far more access to stores on the weekend than the rest of the world.
 
Been there, done that. I mean 100 hour work weeks. It doesn't worth it. Besides We should be moving towards a 20 hour work week these days with technological unemployment. If a work needs 100 man hours put 3 people on it instead of one.
 
HeadRusch said:
If you work in software, you understand this: People that know software, know what scales and what does not. People who don't , assume it's like a factory...you add warm bodies and shit magically scales.

We know differently of course, that software is sort of art and science because there are a million ways to skin the cat, and best practice is largely dependent upon structure and oversight in any given company: Anyone else in software for more than 10 years want to talk about organizations and their levels of management versus non-management?
Click to expand...

I did a lot of conversion programming from COBOL / mainframe to C++ / UNIX / Oracle. We worked some long hours, but I was lucky to work for a team that had great management at the top and good management in the middle. We also had a development practice that was unusual - each unique program or process usually went through one or two rewrites, which is odd for software development, but it worked for us. We had guys who were good at writing what we called 'monsters', crazy-shitty code that was poorly optimized, that made inefficient use of the database, and looked like it came out of a Dilbert comic strip, but it worked. The comments in that code were never, "This function does this for this process," but were always, "This function is screwed, attach it to function X." And then we would do a big review with the rewrite team and the database team, and someone would take that code and rewrite it into a polished product with an emphasis on database efficiency.

I always liked that system - get the code running, then use what you learned to go straight into a rewrite. We had T-shirts that said, "I believe in monsters."
 
Nothing is optional dont do the needful when asked your ass is out the door the next day even if you are only paid for 40 hours.
 
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