Outdated game mechanics.

Domingo

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I'm definitely team gamepad most of the time. I prefer pads to having to game with a typewriter and pointing device at a desk. Give me that versatility and convenience any day. Being able to point at stuff very quickly is fine and dandy, but it shackles you, too.
 
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J3RK

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I'm definitely team gamepad most of the time. I prefer pads to having to game with a typewriter and pointing device at a desk. Give me that versatility and convenience any day. Being able to point at stuff very quickly is fine and dandy, but it shackles you, too.
Yes, tools for the job and all that.
 
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The last games I used a gamepad for were Ys: Oath in Felghana / Origins / Ark of Napishtim. It was a very retro experience, like old school Zelda on steroids.
 
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Ebernanut

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Gamepads are great for casual driving, flying, and other similar activities since steering/acceleration/deceleration benefit more from the ability to do subtle adjustments with the multiple analog inputs more than the precision of a mouse.

Pretty much everything else is better with KB/M unless KB/M are implemented poorly but even then I usually still use KB/M because it's more comfortable, for instance the assassins creed games have had fairly rough KB/M controls and the yakuza games are even worse but I still couldn't bring myself to use a controller with them.

I did think of another thing I consider outdated, fighting games. I know they've been making a comeback but I think the originals were good patially because it's something that works well in 2D with low res sprites which is less important these days but also I think the main thing that made them great back in the day is the low latency that old school consoles and TVs had making the twitch gameplay fast and responsive. Consoles and TVs are much more complex these days resulting in more of a disconnect between inputs and on screen reaction.
 

LukeTbk

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Does anyone play a nhl-fifa type of game on anything else but a gamepad (And I imagine a very long list of genre in which they make a lot of sense) ? It is almost silly to have a debate that they are outdated, it could have happened with a Wii type control taking their place but it certainly did not.

it's something that works well in 2D with low res sprites which is less important these days
This is where a long list of mechanics would reside, many mechanics were the product of being the best solution for the hardware of their times.

Adventure sierra game with text input to describe what your character will do has been outdated by mouse point and click, when CD arrived we started to see video games that were interactive video to take advantage of that format that went away, in the debut of 3d it got overuse and so on
 

Ebernanut

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Adventure sierra game with text input to describe what your character will do has been outdated by mouse point and click
I grew up playing the old Sierra games and have even gone back and played some of them in recent years but I never could enjoy going back to the text input ones because it seemed like half the game was spent playing guess the verb.
 

Choopyplz

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I did think of another thing I consider outdated, fighting games. I know they've been making a comeback but I think the originals were good patially because it's something that works well in 2D with low res sprites which is less important these days but also I think the main thing that made them great back in the day is the low latency that old school consoles and TVs had making the twitch gameplay fast and responsive. Consoles and TVs are much more complex these days resulting in more of a disconnect between inputs and on screen reaction.

Hard disagree. Modern fighters are plenty fast and responsive -- truly competitive players will play using computer monitors, but even many LED TV's have game modes that reduce the input lag to be sufficient for fighters. TBH the biggest technological hurdle that fighting games face is having solid netcode, which is still better than it's ever been and kind of incredible to the point that online tournaments are possible. Fighting games are so unique in format and the amount of depth that goes into them that I honestly can't even imagine calling them "outdated."
 
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Dan_D

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Hard disagree. Modern fighters are plenty fast and responsive -- truly competitive players will play using computer monitors, but even many LED TV's have game modes that reduce the input lag to be sufficient for fighters. TBH the biggest technological hurdle that fighting games face is having solid netcode, which is still better than it's ever been and kind of incredible to the point that online tournaments are possible. Fighting games are so unique in format and the amount of depth that goes into them that I honestly can't even imagine calling them "outdated."
I found a lot of fighters in the past to be almost impossible to play online.
 

Ebernanut

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Hard disagree. Modern fighters are plenty fast and responsive -- truly competitive players will play using computer monitors, but even many LED TV's have game modes that reduce the input lag to be sufficient for fighters. TBH the biggest technological hurdle that fighting games face is having solid netcode, which is still better than it's ever been and kind of incredible to the point that online tournaments are possible. Fighting games are so unique in format and the amount of depth that goes into them that I honestly can't even imagine calling them "outdated."
It's not just the display that's slow though, it's the entire way that consoles(PCs were never as low latency as the old consoles) are designed with more complexity and even the way that controllers are implemented. The latency on those old consoles is like nothing we have today and the fastest LCD is still noticeably slower than the old CRT TVs/monitors.
 

Choopyplz

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I found a lot of fighters in the past to be almost impossible to play online.

They're always improving, online is practically what saved fighting games in the late 2000's. Parsec is also proving to be a very useful tool for fighting games to keep down the lag between players (also very useful for older titles that had limited or no online component whatsoever).

It's not just the display that's slow though, it's the entire way that consoles(PCs were never as low latency as the old consoles) are designed with more complexity and even the way that controllers are implemented. The latency on those old consoles is like nothing we have today and the fastest LCD is still noticeably slower than the old CRT TVs/monitors.

I don't buy that the system complexity is necessarily the defining factor in how well a game performs or functions as much as its just how well an individual title is optimized. There are examples of fighters all over the place from feeling very tight and polished to being janky. CRTs are definitely faster as far as lag and response times are concerned, but I think modern displays are perfectly sufficient (the gap continues to narrow) and obviously it isn't enough of a factor to prevent fighting games from having any amount of popularity. My point is that there is more to why fighting games are good, and it's silly to write off an entire genre like that.
 

Ebernanut

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I don't buy that the system complexity is necessarily the defining factor in how well a game performs or functions as much as its just how well an individual title is optimized. There are examples of fighters all over the place from feeling very tight and polished to being janky. CRTs are definitely faster as far as lag and response times are concerned, but I think modern displays are perfectly sufficient (the gap continues to narrow) and obviously it isn't enough of a factor to prevent fighting games from having any amount of popularity. My point is that there is more to why fighting games are good, and it's silly to write off an entire genre like that.
Beyond screens the old consoles had low latency that was mainly a side effect of everything being done more directly with hardware since they didn't have the processing power for complex firmware much less the software layers that most hardware uses to connect different components these days. Not only was the latency low because of this but the lag that was there was entirely predictable so games could be programmed to account for the exact time keyframes were appropriate. I tried and failed to find an article I recall reading that discussed some of the specific reasons the older consoles and arcade systems were more responsive so I'm probably forgetting a ton but basically everything was simple and more directly connected.

Some of the old arcade systems were even more responsive which along with good controls is why they were generally favored for fighting games back in the day but consoles back them were similar in design and at least in the ballpark for responsiveness.

I also know it's a real concern for developers because I remember reading an interview with a dev for one of the first rebooted fighter games and they discussed some of the tricks they used to cover it up. It involved things like moving keyframes on counters and making them stay open for longer as well as other tricks like extending certain animations out to allow for a longer response period, that's not just optimizing.

I'm sure they've had some other improvements that make them enjoyable to others but for me the main reason I enjoyed them back then was because they played to those strengths which are about the only thing that overall has gotten progressively worse over the years instead of better. I do realize that LCD screens have greatly improved and I'm glad that they have since they're much nicer to use in most ways now but they're still not up to snuff for old school fighting games and platformers IMO.
 
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The only series I can think of that did weapon/armor durability well is Dark Souls, and even then, only the first game.
 

t1337duder

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I don't share the belief that game mechanics grow dated, or for some magical reason become worse with time. New games come out and the mechanics of the average new game have changed a bit, sure. But in what way? Games on average are way more hand-holdy now. They are easier. Story oriented games are more neoliberal and they are way less subtle with their themes and messaging - these types of games are more plentiful than ever. Some people prefer how games are now and that's fine. There are still plenty of games to appeal to people like me (who barely even game anymore).


I should be happy we still get gems like Noita.
 

Aireoth

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Overused to the point of being outdated: Ubisoft style clear the map of objects and tasks.

Outdated: No aim down sights in fps.
 

AceGoober

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Games that lack prone position even though there are sniper rifles within the game. Delta Force games from way back had this option.
 

socK

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I don't share the belief that game mechanics grow dated, or for some magical reason become worse with time. New games come out and the mechanics of the average new game have changed a bit, sure. But in what way? Games on average are way more hand-holdy now. They are easier. Story oriented games are more neoliberal and they are way less subtle with their themes and messaging - these types of games are more plentiful than ever. Some people prefer how games are now and that's fine. There are still plenty of games to appeal to people like me (who barely even game anymore).


I should be happy we still get gems like Noita.
WAY more hand-holdy, so many games literally just have a marker guiding your every fucking step and so often you just turn your brain off because you walk into a room and it literally tells you exactly where to look or what to do.

also games that have abilities that let you see through walls and shit are just empowering you to be braindead as fuck

like please just let me think on my own for 3 seconds
 

WarriorX

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WAY more hand-holdy, so many games literally just have a marker guiding your every fucking step and so often you just turn your brain off because you walk into a room and it literally tells you exactly where to look or what to do.

also games that have abilities that let you see through walls and shit are just empowering you to be braindead as fuck

like please just let me think on my own for 3 seconds

Can't remember what game is was but I remember playing one that once you spent a few minutes looking around for an object or location it would place a marker to help find it. Gives you the option to find your way but also provides a way to help guide you. Think more games should do that, with maybe a setting to control the timer or turn it off.
 
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WAY more hand-holdy, so many games literally just have a marker guiding your every fucking step and so often you just turn your brain off because you walk into a room and it literally tells you exactly where to look or what to do.

also games that have abilities that let you see through walls and shit are just empowering you to be braindead as fuck

like please just let me think on my own for 3 seconds
I've been clearing out my backlog recently and this is so clear after playing a few classic shooters (duke3d/doom64) and then playing bulletstorm. The classic levels are designed to give you some freedom on where to go, but with some obvious markers like keys needed for certain doors. Bulletstorm literally is so tiny you are basically just moving from one action area to another, with perhaps a little bit of space in the action area to find an ammo box or some other collectible.

I really prefer the classic style.
 

Mizzer

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In the 90s the Wing Commander series revolutionized space battles. Lasers could damage a certain part of the enemy’s ship. Hit it enough times in the same area and the ship would explode. I wish there was something like that in games like Far Cry 6 where a hit to an enemy’s leg would cause them to limp or fall; to the shoulder they might drop their weapon. Their hand? They can’t use their weapon. I’m tired of every enemy being a generic bullet sponge with only a headshot taking them out quickly. Imagine realistic damage from a shrapnel grenade: those closest would be on the ground but enemies further way might suffer disorientation and serious wounds that affect their combat efficiency.
 

sharknice

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In the 90s the Wing Commander series revolutionized space battles. Lasers could damage a certain part of the enemy’s ship. Hit it enough times in the same area and the ship would explode. I wish there was something like that in games like Far Cry 6 where a hit to an enemy’s leg would cause them to limp or fall; to the shoulder they might drop their weapon. Their hand? They can’t use their weapon. I’m tired of every enemy being a generic bullet sponge with only a headshot taking them out quickly. Imagine realistic damage from a shrapnel grenade: those closest would be on the ground but enemies further way might suffer disorientation and serious wounds that affect their combat efficiency.
There are games that do things like that.
The original Halo you could shoot the arm off a flood so they couldn't use weapons, shoot the other arm off and they couldn't hit you, just have a stubby zombie pet following you around.

In Mordhau if you have the black knight perk you can lose limbs and still live for a few seconds. Potentially losing an arm and not being able to use 2 handed weapons, or you lose a leg and hop around on one.
 

Mizzer

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There are games that do things like that.
The original Halo you could shoot the arm off a flood so they couldn't use weapons, shoot the other arm off and they couldn't hit you, just have a stubby zombie pet following you around.

In Mordhau if you have the black knight perk you can lose limbs and still live for a few seconds. Potentially losing an arm and not being able to use 2 handed weapons, or you lose a leg and hop around on one.
Any FPS like that?
 

Flogger23m

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In the 90s the Wing Commander series revolutionized space battles. Lasers could damage a certain part of the enemy’s ship. Hit it enough times in the same area and the ship would explode. I wish there was something like that in games like Far Cry 6 where a hit to an enemy’s leg would cause them to limp or fall; to the shoulder they might drop their weapon. Their hand? They can’t use their weapon. I’m tired of every enemy being a generic bullet sponge with only a headshot taking them out quickly. Imagine realistic damage from a shrapnel grenade: those closest would be on the ground but enemies further way might suffer disorientation and serious wounds that affect their combat efficiency.

A lot of games do feature some things like that but many don't. Games that do offer a damage model are much more fun. Visualizing and reacting to the damage is so much better. Far Cry 2 had good damaging. Enemy NPCs would grab wounded allies and drag them to cover. They would limp around to. In GRAW 1/2 PC, enemies would fall if shot. But generally depended on the caliber. The 9mm MP5 would often stun but not kill them. A 5.56 rifle, if it didn't kill them, would cause them to drop to the ground. They'd then stumble, get up and get back into the fight. SWAT 4 had NPCs drop weapons if shot in the hand. Their animations would react to shoulder or leg shots. Sometimes it bugged out and the animation wouldn't sync properly but the game is from 2005. If s hot in the leg they would limp around. Same with the player. A shot to the leg meant you'd limp the rest of the mission. A shot to the arm gave you an accuracy penalty. Enemies would violently jerk around when being hit, and would fumble, twitch, and roll around the ground if not dead.

Example. Check 10 seconds in. NPC reacts and jerks shoulder when shot there. 24 seconds in you can see another NPC reacting to each impact. His arm/hand visibly jolts around and he can't keep his pistol steady. You can see him twitching on the ground later.



Now the game is from 2005, so I expect more from modern games. But a lot are surprisingly less detailed. If they do have animations they're often very unrealistic.
 

Mizzer

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A lot of games do feature some things like that but many don't. Games that do offer a damage model are much more fun. Visualizing and reacting to the damage is so much better. Far Cry 2 had good damaging. Enemy NPCs would grab wounded allies and drag them to cover. They would limp around to. In GRAW 1/2 PC, enemies would fall if shot. But generally depended on the caliber. The 9mm MP5 would often stun but not kill them. A 5.56 rifle, if it didn't kill them, would cause them to drop to the ground. They'd then stumble, get up and get back into the fight. SWAT 4 had NPCs drop weapons if shot in the hand. Their animations would react to shoulder or leg shots. Sometimes it bugged out and the animation wouldn't sync properly but the game is from 2005. If s hot in the leg they would limp around. Same with the player. A shot to the leg meant you'd limp the rest of the mission. A shot to the arm gave you an accuracy penalty. Enemies would violently jerk around when being hit, and would fumble, twitch, and roll around the ground if not dead.

Example. Check 10 seconds in. NPC reacts and jerks shoulder when shot there. 24 seconds in you can see another NPC reacting to each impact. His arm/hand visibly jolts around and he can't keep his pistol steady. You can see him twitching on the ground later.



Now the game is from 2005, so I expect more from modern games. But a lot are surprisingly less detailed. If they do have animations they're often very unrealistic.

This should be the standard not the 15 year old exception.
 

Denpepe

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The loader bot's in borderlands can be dismembered, they will even crawl to you if you shoot off their legs, though afaik that's the only enemy in those games that this can be done to.
 

Superjoe

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One of the real stand-out mechanics/design choices that just gets reiterated to death is the "RPG dialogue scene". Just alternating a completely static camera angle back and forth from my shoulder to theirs as they take turns talking is so fucking boring. Choosing a meaningless dialogue fork every 10 seconds isn't gameplay to me. And in these moments I no longer feel like the protagonist but rather a passive observer. It's a wonderful opportunity for me to take in the lack of detail in the environment around them, or maybe if I'm lucky there'll be a bad texture or a model clipping through another that I can fixate on instead.

The types of idle animations they give the characters are so basic/stupid/unnatural and typically on a short loop. Generally facial animations and lip-syncing in these scenes suck big time too. For as far as games have come in my 20 years of playing/yelling at them, dialogue is stuck in the stone-ages.

But I don't like to complain without offering solutions/counterpoints! In my opinion the games that get it right are ones like GTAV or RDR2. So much of the dialogue is delivered whilst driving to the next mission that I'm still engaged and participating. If it has to be done via cutscene, they are usually very dynamic and entertaining.
 

scojer

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Not being able to climb on objects that are shin height, or, pushing a button to climb on them, or invisible walls, those annoy me as well.
 

Opus131

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Straight FPS without any of the extra elements some of you are complaining about. A shooter with nothing else going for it feels archaic and boring AF to me.

That's because you don't realize how much actual "meat" has been stripped from the genre, starting with exploration, complex level design, clever enemy placement and strategic gunplay.

There's a reason people still play games like the original Doom to this day, and why they keep making content for it.

RPG elements in modern shooters are often just a way to mask the fact the games are actually very shallow in terms of actual mechanics.

Notice how in the DLCs of Doom Eternal, you start with all your upgrates unlocked. It's obvious that id realized their game was mechanically interesting enough that it didn't need that kind of fluff.
 
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Youn

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  • having to break out a "game manual" or included map/poster
  • no built-in tutorial, just figure out what button does what
  • no cutscenes every other frickin minute, stopping gameplay flow
  • heavy use of trial-and-error and/or memorization
  • cryptic use of items in specific map locations in specific body positions at specific time of day
 
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