Our First - Velocity Micro @ 4GHz

Copeland said:
This time buy it anonymously and I guaranty to honor our return policy without the usual restocking fees. That’s the only way you can experience what any other buyer gets.

Amazing! He actually encouraged this idea. This is what I'm talking about folks. The company that puts their balls to the walls. Heck, for that, I'd put some extra points on 'em. Truth is though-- I already knew Velocity Micro was a good company. ;)

-J.
 
Scarceas said:
Actually several different people stated they wanted to see a comparison system.... haven't seen any feedback on that point, though...

Have not commented because I am unsure how this will fit into our eval format.
 
The post by the Velocity Micro CEO is nice to read. i still dont understand how they sent out a unit that blew up. But then again Im sorta dumb. I think this is a really good deal all the way around and if all the honchos communicate with you this well after the fact this is gonna be neat stuff. Good luck with 60 units a year? That would truely be [H]ard. :D
 
Nice to see Randy Copeland (CEO) come in here and post his response to the review. I don't think we'll see a post by Micheal Dell post after the [H] reviews a Gen5 XPS or other Dell system! lol

Gives me more confidence in the Velocity Micro. Though I would personally build a system myself. I might consider referring someone looking for a big budget high end system to them. (b/c I HATE to be the designated tech support for people if I build them a system. Its bad enough most friends & family call me now when they have a problem.) But it looks like Velocity Micro does have a very good support system. They might not have hundreds (quantity) of Indian's at a call center in Bombay with Support Encyclopedias like a Dell. But it sounds like they have quality people, that actually build the systems. So Kudos to them for that.
 
Kyle, I am not sure if I missed it, but I did see the 24/7 support. if you can expand on the service and support areas. System builders have to put value in systems and one big area is service and support. This is what I like to see:

1. hardware warranty time.
2. labor warranty time.
3. on-site warranty time.
4. satisfaction guaranties?
5. support call in hours.
6. on-line support (how good is it) (drivers, knowledge base, FAQs, etc.)
7. labor cost to fix non-warranty problems, or out of warranty systems (if even offered.)


This is just a start, I hope this gives you some ideas...
 
LeviathanV said:
And lastly, several times on your review you said and I quot:
"Doing a little research and looking at their customer reviews on various websites, I'm inclined to believe them."
...you are not supposed to review other people´s experience with the company, but your own. Regardless
if its just an isolated incident or not.
Actually, I can read the online experiences of every day people and see if they line up with what just might be 'star treatment' I'm getting from a company. If a company is at my beckon call, and are overnighting me parts left and right, or calling to check up on a problem, but have a 1.5/10 at RR or some other site, then I'll think something's up. But if you're pulling 9/10 and higher consistently, and people are relating similar successes with their support, I'll be less likely to be suspicious.

So basically the common thread here is that you guys thought I wasn't tough enough. Perhaps next time I need to put myself in the mindframe of 'I just spent XXXX amount of dollars on this, this is my money, now how do I feel about it'. Other than that, if I properly relayed the events to you, and you have come to a different conclusion than me, then I have still done my job, as a lot of this is subjective.
 
Zardoz said:
Kyle, I am not sure if I missed it, but I did see the 24/7 support. if you can expand on the service and support areas. System builders have to put value in systems and one big area is service and support. This is what I like to see:

1. hardware warranty time.
2. labor warranty time.
3. on-site warranty time.
4. satisfaction guaranties?
5. support call in hours.
6. on-line support (how good is it) (drivers, knowledge base, FAQs, etc.)
7. labor cost to fix non-warranty problems, or out of warranty systems (if even offered.)


This is just a start, I hope this gives you some ideas...

Good points.
 
Morley said:
So basically the common thread here is that you guys thought I wasn't tough enough. Perhaps next time I need to put myself in the mindframe of 'I just spent XXXX amount of dollars on this, this is my money, now how do I feel about it'. Other than that, if I properly relayed the events to you, and you have come to a different conclusion than me, then I have still done my job, as a lot of this is subjective.

I think this is something that your absoltutely have to do. We have to be in the shoes of the targeted end user for the system in question. We can do a better job of this next time.

But there is also another side to this and this is something that a lot of our readers do not see. A company does not live nor die by one box and while this is a specific system evaluation I think it would be unfair to judge an entire company on one box. If you got back and look at our scores, you will see where the unit scores were poor to good and the company scores were rather high. But the overall grade on the box was just "ok"....

I am not going to rip a company to peices just because a motherboard died. It just would not be right.
 
If Velocity is sending out pre-production parts in systems that are meant to be evaluated as something you would expect Joe Schmoe to buy, therein lies a big problem. The average Joe doesn't want a motherboard whose power circuitry will fry, and while the review of the system was insightful and didn't bullshit and try to cover-up the problems, there was some negligence on Velocity's part to send out pre-production hardware. While a lot of us here understand what is going on with something technically, many people who will buy these high-end systems do not have as much technical knowledge, and seeing this component failure will perhaps scare them off from final revisions of the system, which will likely be just fine and not prone to similar hardware failures in most cases.
 
Kudos to Randy for stepping up and responding to the posters here. I am glad to see these reviews have more of a feeling of a "state vehicle inspection" than a "marketing pitch" for free hardware. I am also hoping randy sets a trend for computer manufacturers to post here to answer the readers questions. Since this is a bunch of "firsts" we have to give VM an extra point for being the first up to the plate.

Offering blind reviews with no restocking fees is a very honest and "high road" approach, and having that sort of transparency is something that myself and other readers look for in a company, especially one we are reccomending to someone else where both of our reputations are at stake.

Keep up the good work.
 
Not bad from a company in my own Richmond, va. Overall It hink you did a good job on the review and it was a good read.
 
I was one of the first people to remark that this is all new. I give alot of credit to both parties for stepping up and admitting problems both with the products and with the scope of the review (which by the way I still believe is precident setting for a oem review.) Ive had time to go back and read the article a couple of more times.
first I still cant stop thinking that the company sent out a "preproduction model". I expect to see "off the shelf" computers reviewed as would anyone else. If not it poisons the water right off the bat. Or am I wrong. Is this standard fare in reviews, I would like to know that up front, however.
second and less important, when the games were reviewed there was not much in the way of hard data there as in GPU reviews. I understand this is hard and time consuming,and apples to oranges. but some way to see graphics might be neat.Maybe show the relevant data on 850 xt pe's compared to this machine, i dont know??? hope you can see what Im getting at. plus I know that you prefaced that segment with a statement that you didnt want to rehash stuff that had been done elsewhere.
i know this is never gonna be perfect in any one persons opinion, just stuff i saw the second and third time around the review.
 
magoo said:
I was one of the first people to remark that this is all new. I give alot of credit to both parties for stepping up and admitting problems both with the products and with the scope of the review (which by the way I still believe is precident setting for a oem review.) Ive had time to go back and read the article a couple of more times.
first I still cant stop thinking that the company sent out a "preproduction model". I expect to see "off the shelf" computers reviewed as would anyone else. If not it poisons the water right off the bat. Or am I wrong. Is this standard fare in reviews, I would like to know that up front, however.
second and less important, when the games were reviewed there was not much in the way of hard data there as in GPU reviews. I understand this is hard and time consuming,and apples to oranges. but some way to see graphics might be neat.Maybe show the relevant data on 850 xt pe's compared to this machine, i dont know??? hope you can see what Im getting at. plus I know that you prefaced that segment with a statement that you didnt want to rehash stuff that had been done elsewhere.
i know this is never gonna be perfect in any one persons opinion, just stuff i saw the second and third time around the review.

I don't think that desktops that are reviewed by such as ZDNET contain pre-production parts. A lot of times they cover mass-built systems from Compaq and the like, so my guess is that the reviewed models are identical to the buyable ones, which is how it should be. There are reviews from companies like ABS and Velocity that build the PCs according to more of what you want, but as far as I know, I don't think those contain preproduction parts, or at least it isn't listed if they do.
 
Quite frankly, I did not know that this was not a production box till pretty much the same time you guys did. HardOCP does not review engineering or preproduction motherboards for the reason that they very often do not represent what can be purchased in retail. This same philosophy will apply to our system evaluations. Just going to have to work on this some to make sure it happens.
 
Any co,[anies that read this thread and see what the readers are expecting might make it a bit harder to get review units. It seems as though most expect absolute 100% perfection on every aspect just to get an 8/10. I feel the 7.5 was just about right. Its funny that I havent heard many complaints about Previews of components that are posted yet do a preview of a system and its blasphemy.

I feel that some readers here are just expecting way too much and if these are the poeple that the companies see as the ones reading the reivews they may frown upon sending a unit for review.

Maybe y'all should have just given it a 4 or 5 instead. I think the mobo going out was a great test of the knowledge of VM's tech support. How many times does osmething like that go out? It would be interesting to see how Gateway and others would have handled it as all they do is read what their computer screen tells them.
 
On the matter of pre-production parts, I apologize if I made this out to be an excuse. It's not. Velocity Micro is frequently a "launch partner" on the very latest technologies from AMD, Intel, nVidia, and ATi. As such, we always have availability to these parts (pre-production AND first full production) before virtually anybody. The lone pitfall of this market position is that sometimes an early part is pre-production. It took a month of use and 4 instances of Prime95 to kill the board, which is obviously something we didn't try in the few weeks we had to learn the new technology and design a product with it. Make no mistake, we sent the part after complete testing and we certified it to be a solid part, so it's on us.

There is an upside (for the OEM, the reviewer, and the reader) to seeing the very latest products from a launch partner and using some pre-production parts if you are comfortable with them, as we are. We get to show the world what the latest technologies are capable of first, the reviewer has something new to satisfy hungry readers, and readers can taste the new parts usually way before you can go to Newegg with a shopping list and do it for yourself. Let's remember that even now two months after launch, few readers could assemble this system up until right now because only a few companies like Velocity and ABS can aquire the 840XE CPU and 955X motherboard parts. Pre-production can be a double edged sword, but we think it's worth it to see what the next big thing will bring us all. Even if it means the occasional blown motherboard v-regs during torture testing.
 
@Kyle,
Regarding a grading system. I agree that stability is job 1, also add in the sellers Warranty service as well in that job 1 rating. Personally I know folks who value warranty service equal to or even higher than initial quality. Their reasoning is simply WHEN something goes wrong eventually I want to know it will be taken care of.
-- So here are my thoughts on a rating service: Creat a Stability / Warranty section that has the numeric check points that directly contribute to the bottom line number. (also put in a 'legend' at the bottom explaining what the bottom line score means. I.E. 7.5 = an over all average experience. We had issues but they were taken care of in a professional and courteous manner. After which all was well. 7.5 would equate to an 'A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'F', grading system as used in most educational systems.
-- use the Other check points to Add or Subtract over all points from the bottom line score. I.E. Presentation and Packaging would be: Add To, No Add, Subtract from the bottom line score. Gaming Experience too would likely be Add To, No Add, Subtract from bottom line score. In this manner you can essentially do your 70% is for stability ect while reserving 30% for merrits / demerits and maintain Ease of Use that everyone can immediately grasp. Simple and easily tweaked system.

Peace
 
Velocity_Micro said:
On the matter of pre-production parts, I apologize if I made this out to be an excuse. It's not. Velocity Micro is frequently a "launch partner" on the very latest technologies from AMD, Intel, nVidia, and ATi. As such, we always have availability to these parts (pre-production AND first full production) before virtually anybody. The lone pitfall of this market position is that sometimes an early part is pre-production. It took a month of use and 4 instances of Prime95 to kill the board, which is obviously something we didn't try in the few weeks we had to learn the new technology and design a product with it. Make no mistake, we sent the part after complete testing and we certified it to be a solid part, so it's on us.

There is an upside (for the OEM, the reviewer, and the reader) to seeing the very latest products from a launch partner and using some pre-production parts if you are comfortable with them, as we are. We get to show the world what the latest technologies are capable of first, the reviewer has something new to satisfy hungry readers, and readers can taste the new parts usually way before you can go to Newegg with a shopping list and do it for yourself. Let's remember that even now two months after launch, few readers could assemble this system up until right now because only a few companies like Velocity and ABS can aquire the 840XE CPU and 955X motherboard parts. Pre-production can be a double edged sword, but we think it's worth it to see what the next big thing will bring us all. Even if it means the occasional blown motherboard v-regs during torture testing.
^^^ this seems very reasonable, and I'm glad to hear Velocity's take on this. I will look forward to seeing more [H] reviews on pre-built PCs. Even though I'd never buy one, it is certainly nice to know what's out there and what I can recommend to friends...
 
Zardoz said:
I do understand you could build this system yourself cheaper, not everyone can do that. so they must have someone do it for them. let me ask you this:

if someone asked you to build and support this system for 3 years for them, what would you charge?

pc power and cooling 850w psu
2x 6800 ultra's in SLI
Amd x2
ASUS A8n SLI for stablilty



That would annihilate that review sample, and be a hell of a lot more stable too. There is simply NO NO NO NO excuse for a company not to use pc power and cooling power supplies. Not only would it save them money in the long run (they just dont fail), it would give thema better reputation for reliability and the consumer less headaches.
 
computerpro3 said:
pc power and cooling 850w psu
2x 6800 ultra's in SLI
Amd x2
ASUS A8n SLI for stablilty



That would annihilate that review sample, and be a hell of a lot more stable too. There is simply NO NO NO NO excuse for a company not to use pc power and cooling power supplies. Not only would it save them money in the long run (they just dont fail), it would give thema better reputation for reliability and the consumer less headaches.
I dont think you read the whole thread or the review. The PSU didnt fail, the MOBO had an issue. This review wasnt about the uber delux monster system. It was about THIS particular system that was available from VM. Yes it would be nice to see a comparison and those are really good components, but the review wasnt about all that. Look at VMs web site. You can order that set-up from them if you wish, altho they dont offer the PC power and cooling PSU. The object of the reviews is to look at systems as they come from a builder, not put together a wish list of components.
 
I will have to agree with the claims about their excellent customer service. About a year ago at this time I ordered a custom notebook from them and they went above and beyond what most companies would have done regarding my specifications (ie: not wanting the VM logo on the case). They had their painting company remove the logo, fill in the gap, and paint over it, having it look like one beautiful black monolith in the end. Even when I received it and had problems (faulty components...happens to everyone not just them) they were willing to work with me and made sure I was satisfied. I'd like to get a product from them again...unfortunately I needed to return mine because of time constraints and I needed a notebook before they said it would be returned to me following the repair, but it was an unusual situation that was pretty much compounded by my strange demands. These guys are the real deal.
 
If I were a sending a PC to be reviewed by a PC enthusiast site such as the [H], I would certainly not send a machine with pre-production components. Lets face it, a machine reviewed by the [H] is going to be literally tortured to test its build quality, speed, reliability, heat production, noise, internal layout, wiring, and service/support. They are NOT gonna simply run a few cannned benchmarks for a few hours and call it a day. This is not PC World or another mainstream publication.
 
Great writeup, as always from [H]. I would like to say though that it made me sad to read the words "So you want to buy a prebuilt computer" at the top of an [H] review. Keep up the good work, and I'd like to second the suggestion thats already been made, to compare it with your own homebrew hardware. ;)
 
magoo said:
I dont think you read the whole thread or the review. The PSU didnt fail, the MOBO had an issue. This review wasnt about the uber delux monster system. It was about THIS particular system that was available from VM. Yes it would be nice to see a comparison and those are really good components, but the review wasnt about all that. Look at VMs web site. You can order that set-up from them if you wish, altho they dont offer the PC power and cooling PSU. The object of the reviews is to look at systems as they come from a builder, not put together a wish list of components.


Actually I don't think you read the whole thread, he asked what I would change, I said I would get rid of the enermax and swap in the most stable, high powered, and clean psuo on the market. The rest of the pc is high class, why go with a good but not amazing psu?
 
computerpro3 said:
pc power and cooling 850w psu
2x 6800 ultra's in SLI
Amd x2
ASUS A8n SLI for stablilty



That would annihilate that review sample, and be a hell of a lot more stable too. There is simply NO NO NO NO excuse for a company not to use pc power and cooling power supplies. Not only would it save them money in the long run (they just dont fail), it would give thema better reputation for reliability and the consumer less headaches.
We used Sparkle powersupplies at BOXX in configurations like this:

Dual Xeon 3.6Ghz
2GB RAM
Quadro FX 4400 x 2 in SLI
10 Hitachi 400GB in RAID 5 over 2 RAIDCore cards
1 x AJA or Bluefish 444 HD ingestion card
one or two single drives

You don't need PCP&C to make a stable machine. Also, call me ignorant but I don't think SLI is enabled on Intel chipsets outside of their 75xx series server sets? I think this was more of a showcase for the Pentium D Extreme Edition. Velocity Micro offers AMD solutions as well.
 
Why wouldnt you use a top of the line PSU with a top of the line system? Even if its not needed I like peace of mind with my computers. Just seems like another cost cutting measure to me, another reason why I dont like pre builts.
 
Morley said:
We used Sparkle powersupplies at BOXX in configurations like this:

Dual Xeon 3.6Ghz
2GB RAM
Quadro FX 4400 x 2 in SLI
10 Hitachi 400GB in RAID 5 over 2 RAIDCore cards
1 x AJA or Bluefish 444 HD ingestion card
one or two single drives

You don't need PCP&C to make a stable machine..

But you do to make the best.
 
computerpro3 said:
But you do to make the best.
When you build hundreds upon hundreds a month like that without PSU issues, I don't think you need PCP&C to make it any better.
 
well, as a mac fan and an IT pro, i have experience with OEM machines. Look. I know just about everyone here can build one cheaper and maybe faster. I have not read the review to critique or praise the layout but this thread caught my eyeball. The most important things a review of this nature considering the audience IMO is aesthetics, quality and tech support/warranty/RMA and overall what its like to deal with said company in general.

Its rather pointless to build a comparable system, what's the difference going to be? A few benchmarks up or down? Who cares? A person willing to plunk down the change for a machine either because they don't have the time or just don't want to deal with it probably isn't going to bark too much because they get three more frames per second in some game. The benchmarking weenie shaking is getting old, for the most part, the systems are going to reflect the aftermarket parts to a degree, what are you really learning? Most AMD and Intel chipsets perform similarly. If something is glaring like some function of the motherboard isn't working that's something worth knowing, but overall we understand that there's more then one way to skin a cat. If they use a Nic card manufactured in Russia where the only way to get a driver is by traversing a russian web site with a translater its worth knowing things like that too.

As far as reviewing 60 systems in a year, its entirely possible, I don't think Kyle only has one outlet in the damned bunker. Its not unreasonable to think the test bench can run multiple machines at a time, for periods of time being used with everyday things they do aside of pure stress testing to see if something goes haywire after a bit. I also don't think it can be an anonymous to get the machines to review, I doubt the [H] would be able to buy 60 review systems (though calls to support can be anonymous I guess)

One thing I would like to see though, is addendums to articles if you release a review and still have the machine for awhile and something new pops up down the road. I'm not sure what Kyle has in mind with the index thing he mentioned, but something can be done to make the reviews pop out more. Maybe a subforum with direct links to user reviews for people who own them or purchase the rigs and problems they may have encountered or verifying certain review points. I realize that would be sorta hard with all the clowns we have here (myself included :D ) This is something that cnet sorta does and other news oriented sites do on occasion at the ends of the articles, have a sort of comments feature or something. I guess that's something Kyle and crew would have to measure whether it would be worth the resources to do.

P.S. Kyle, if you need a Mac reviewer and are willing to farm it out to NJ, let me know...when they move to Intel based machines down the road, might get interesting and provide you with new web traffic ;)
 
Well the review introduced me to a new builder. And while I like their philosophy I'd hafta read a few more reviews of their systems, including hopefully another one from Morley in the next year or so, before I would buy one.

But like him I think I could recommend a more daily use computer to my mom made by VM anyday.
 
I wish i could find my post from around two years ago when this site first started bashing 3dmark. I knew that an inhouse benchmark system was being conceived...
 
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