Oregon Man Temporarily Wins the Right to Call Himself an "Engineer"

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If you don't have a degree or state certification, nothing personal, I'm not putting you on a critical project that may be worth millions. At best you are an apprentice , technician, long term intern, or engineer's/architect's assistant. Now if you want to hold yourself to one of those titles, then I will assign you appropriate work with appropriate supervision when you apply for a job. But don't dare call yourself an engineer on a job application, or written testimony.

There was a very popular mall years back where a concrete overpass on the second floor collapsed sending dozens of people falling onto the first floor. People were seriously hurt.

Obviously the people sued. First they sued the contractor. The contractor proved they built to spec and plan.
Then they went back to the architecture firm. The plans were signed off on by the master engineer/chief architect.

Guess what, that company never certified that architects degree...which didn't exist. They were sued out of existence.

You mean the one in Elliot lake? The engineer in that little disaster was recently aquitted. He was also a PE. Guess the cert doesn't mean as much as you think, eh?

http://www.macleans.ca/news/why-one-man-faces-criminal-charges-in-the-elliot-lake-mall-collapse/
http://ca.pressfrom.com/news/canada/-30319-ex-engineer-acquitted-in-deadly-mall-collapse/
 
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You mean the one in Elliot lake? The engineer in that little disaster was recently aquitted. He was also a PE. Guess the cert doesn't mean as much as you think, eh?

http://www.macleans.ca/news/why-one-man-faces-criminal-charges-in-the-elliot-lake-mall-collapse/
http://ca.pressfrom.com/news/canada/-30319-ex-engineer-acquitted-in-deadly-mall-collapse/

No I didn't mean Elliot Lake. That was a separate incident.

If you read the article, his license was revoked for professional misconduct on a previous project. He's damn lucky he got acquitted.

But that is really irrelevant. I'll trust the word over an engineer that's certified over one that calls himself an engineer without certification. The odds will be in my favor.
 
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dethklokworkorange

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He's using it to append his name as to his credentials when making a statement to assert his credibility. When it comes to legal matters, then yes it does matter. He's contesting a ticket, which is a legal matter for which he is giving written testimony. I can't step into court and go "I'm Donald Dickpole" without being thrown out by my ear.
But, according to the article, he was not fined for testimony in court to dispute his wife's ticket. This all stems from an email he sent saying, "I had this thought. As an engineer, I looked into it, and here's the math showing my work. Do what you will with it." It's not like he presented false credentials to get a government contract and built an inferior bridge that failed and killed thousands. The matter of his wife's ticket was settled long ago, and this has no bearing on that, so he stands to gain nothing from this; he is just attempting to contribute to society.
He made them look stupid on 60 Minutes, so they fined him out of spite. Seems like the tactics of a few commentors on this forum: if you can't argue with the well reasoned idea they present, ignore that and resort to petty personal attacks.
 

swimming pool

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I'm probably an engineer and can assure everyone that this is one of those things that just doesn't matter.

People can call themselves whatever they want.
 

refraxion

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Shrug. I don't understand USA. I know in Alberta you will get disciplined if you call yourself an Engineer even if you're an engineer in training, and "enforcement" if you aren't from an accredited university with an engineering degree claiming to be an Engineer.

Graduating from an accredited university with an engineering degree is also not a means for you to call yourself an engineer OR an engineer in training if you aren't apart of the regulating body in your province with the required amount of work experience. Seems like the states is different and calling yourself an engineer is pretty easy.
 
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spugnor

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Engineer is simply a title. PE actually means something. I am an engineer, but not a PE, and i would never claim to be a PE. I don't have the right, because i haven't done the work. But that does NOT mean i am not an engineer. That's the whole point of having PE's. If there was no reason to have PE's, then that specification would not be necessary.

In essence, just because i don't have a PE, does not mean i cannot do the work, it just means that someone who DOES have a PE must review it, and sign off on it, under certain circumstances. The work i do, rarely requires such oversight. But that doesn't mean that PE's are overpaid jerks, or that i am under qualified, it just means we fill different niches.
 

refraxion

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So in the states it seems like pursuing a PE is optional (unless you want to stamp). My understanding is in Alberta Canada is that you need to ultimately have your P.Eng (PE in the states) to continue working in the industry
 

Mohonri

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Engineer is simply a title. PE actually means something. I am an engineer, but not a PE, and i would never claim to be a PE. I don't have the right, because i haven't done the work. But that does NOT mean i am not an engineer. That's the whole point of having PE's. If there was no reason to have PE's, then that specification would not be necessary.

In essence, just because i don't have a PE, does not mean i cannot do the work, it just means that someone who DOES have a PE must review it, and sign off on it, under certain circumstances. The work i do, rarely requires such oversight. But that doesn't mean that PE's are overpaid jerks, or that i am under qualified, it just means we fill different niches.
Exactly.

I think the state is going to lose this one pretty badly. Why? Because 1) there's somewhat of a precedent for the courts striking down similar laws (see the Stolen Valor act), and 2) he was not using it in any commercial/professional context.
 

Mohonri

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The whole "we're going to fine you because you criticized us" case is over for his specific case, but he's challenging the very constitutionality of the law that allows them to do it in the first place. I say, more power to him. I hope he wins.
 

MavericK

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Seems that some people in the thread didn't actually read the article or are familiar with this case. He's not trying to call himself an engineer for the sake of getting a job or anything, he just referred to himself as that for the purposes of this study. And by all accounts, he is qualified as an engineer, just not specifically in the state of Oregon.

Glad the courts "temporarily" came to their senses.
 

KarsusTG

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In Oregon, it appears, it does mean something. It's more than a title. It has specific legal standing.

This. Just because you have a degree in engineering does not mean you are an engineer. You can have engineer in your job title, but you are not legally an engineer until you have PE at the end of your name. It's kinda like doctor in that regard.

I am getting ready to take my FE exam, then start the 4 years of enslavement necessary to earn the right to even take the PE exam.

In this particular case though, I don't know why you would need a PE to use a stop watch.
 

ewb302

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The internet has made anyone be who they want to be these days. It's great. I have an engineering degree and work in an engineering position. I'm not a PE, and I have no drive to do so anyways. But if I fill out an application and it asks my job title, I put "engineer". The title is broad, and it doesn't mean you are qualified to do everything that encompasses engineering. Every big yacht on the water has an engineer working aboard. Quite a different definition of a college degreed engineer, but the title is there none the less.
 

Draax

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It grinds my gears that people who work at subway call themselves “sandwich artists”. Just because you can throw some ingredients on a sub doesn’t make you an artist.
 

Tekara

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In this particular case though, I don't know why you would need a PE to use a stop watch.

Per the article, Oregon law dictates that only state licensed engineers (not federal, foreign, or out of state) are allowed to discuss technical matters concerning the state. It's quite the tyrranical law used to silence activists and everyday people from criticizing state works as they would have to be Oregon State licensed engineers to do so. With that in mind, I can only image how corrupt the process for becoming a Oregon State Engineer really actually is.
 

mope54

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It grinds my gears that people who work at subway call themselves “sandwich artists”. Just because you can throw some ingredients on a sub doesn’t make you an artist.
Shouldn't it be that just because you throw some ingredients on bread doesn't make it a sandwich...at least in regards to Subway :D
 
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