Opps, should have listened. 4 sticks of ddr4 only run at 2400 when rated at 3600. Should I just return the memory and buy 2x16?

E

eddie500

Gawd
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
987
This is on a z390 Aorus Pro motherboard and a 9900K

OK so I asked about this and was warned but I thought I knew better, it didn't help reading that 4 sticks can be faster in gaming than 2 sticks because of memory rank.

I had 2x8 gb of 4266 Corsair memory. I then was being cheap and decided to buy 2x8gb of 3600, thinking I could run all 4 sticks at 4x8 3600.

When running all 4 sticks I can only get my memory to run at 2400, anything higher and the computer will not boot. I guess even though both pair of memory will work at 3600 and 3866 when using only 2 sticks, they will not at those speeds when using all 4 sticks.

Should I just return the 2x8gb and purchase 2x16gb and call it a day?
 
Last edited:
I think a big potential issue here is using mismatched pairs of RAM. It's really ideal to use identical modules, regardless of how many. I mean, if you are running low memory speeds and just adding a couple modules to an old Dell or something then an exact match isn't as big of a deal, but even 3600 is pretty fast.

Sell one pair and buy a matching set for the other. I bet that with 4 matching sticks of RAM it would work fine.
 
I did, I brought them up to 1.4 and made no difference. From what I gather I believe its common that when you try and run 4 modules together you have to run them at lower speeds.
I didn't have matching sticks but each memory pair works at 3600.
 
Running 4x8gb 3600 should be gravy for that board (t-topology). Are you trying to run xmp or setting it up manually?
If you're setting it up xmp remove the modules in slots 1 and 3 and go in and set it up via xmp normally. Make sure its defaulting to the right speed before you save and exit. Reboot, make sure your speed, timings and voltage are gtg in windows with cpu-z. Shut down and reinstall the other two modules in 1 and 3.
If that doesn't work try the same process but manually set up with 2x8gb installed in 2 and 4 to start.
Your mb was literally built to run better with all four dimms populated. There's probably just a small setting that's being overlooked or something.

Also make sure you're running the latest bios.
GL!
 
eddie500 said:
I did, I brought them up to 1.4 and made no difference. From what I gather I believe its common that when you try and run 4 modules together you have to run them at lower speeds.
I didn't have matching sticks but each memory pair works at 3600.
Click to expand...
System Agent (VCCSA) and System IO (VCCIO)?

Lower speeds are normal but not dramatically lower.
 
Meeho said:
System Agent (VCCSA) and System IO (VCCIO)?

Lower speeds are normal but not dramatically lower.
Click to expand...

I didn't touch VCCSA and VCCIO, and just the Dram voltages. Do these need to be changed?

What I did was rearrange the ram so that the pairs are mismatched, and I am able to get as high as 2600, but can't go any higher than that.

If I run just 2 modules, a 3600 and 4266, I can easily get 3600 with that mismatched pair.

For some reason running 4 sticks is an issue.

Since my bios sets most things in AUTO and I'm running manual settings, maybe I should adjust some memory timing that could be set too low?
 
Last edited:
VCCSA and VCCIO are related to the CPU's memory controller which gets pushed harder with 4 sticks. Check out e.g. this guide for the recommended ranges and how to set them in relation to each other.
 
I think there's something else going on if you can't run 4x8gb at 3600. Coffee Lake isn't known to have a slouch of a memory controller.
 
eddie500 said:
This is on a z390 Aorus Pro motherboard and a 9900K

OK so I asked about this and was warned but I thought I knew better, it didn't help reading that 4 sticks can be faster in gaming than 2 sticks because of memory rank.

I had 2x8 gb of 4266 Corsair memory. I then was being cheap and decided to buy 2x8gb of 3600, thinking I could run all 4 sticks at 4x8 3600.

When running all 4 sticks I can only get my memory to run at 2400, anything higher and the computer will not boot. I guess even though both pair of memory will work at 3600 and 3866 when using only 2 sticks, they will not at those speeds when using all 4 sticks.

Should I just return the 2x8gb and purchase 2x16gb and call it a day?
Click to expand...
I would. I think it's really difficult to run 4 sticks - it depends on a variety of factors - the motherboard, motherboard bios and I read that BOTH AMD and Intel - have 'changed' in that it's more difficult to run 4 sticks - especially if you are trying to match sticks (and it's not a kit of 4). Two sticks is just easier. Yes, there's 4 slots in most atx and matx motherboards - but, there's still issues quite often with running 4 sticks. There's rarely issues if just running 2 sticks - unless you got a Gigabyte board. J/k.
You can try to tweak settings but imho, it's not worth the headache. Usually, just two sticks work - there's not as much involved. I had the choice of getting 32gb or 64gb of RAM - I want to get into video editing (serious) but I knew I wanted only 2 sticks. If I went with DDR5 - it would have been 32gb (2x16GB). I wanted the max I could get because I don't want to *add* sticks later because of the 4 sticks potential issue - although, it's always nice to upgrade. I went with 64gb thinking that should be enough for a while.

Even if the sticks are all the same latency and timings - they don't always 'mesh' together - that's why it's recommended to buy a kit - because they have been tested together and verified to work. Except, when there's a problem for a customer/buyer trying to get them to run at spec (OC is another story). :)
 
pavel said:
I would. I think it's really difficult to run 4 sticks - it depends on a variety of factors - the motherboard, motherboard bios and I read that BOTH AMD and Intel - have 'changed' in that it's more difficult to run 4 sticks - especially if you are trying to match sticks (and it's not a kit of 4). Two sticks is just easier. Yes, there's 4 slots in most atx and matx motherboards - but, there's still issues quite often with running 4 sticks. There's rarely issues if just running 2 sticks - unless you got a Gigabyte board. J/k.
You can try to tweak settings but imho, it's not worth the headache. Usually, just two sticks work - there's not as much involved. I had the choice of getting 32gb or 64gb of RAM - I want to get into video editing (serious) but I knew I wanted only 2 sticks. If I went with DDR5 - it would have been 32gb (2x16GB). I wanted the max I could get because I don't want to *add* sticks later because of the 4 sticks potential issue - although, it's always nice to upgrade. I went with 64gb thinking that should be enough for a while.

Even if the sticks are all the same latency and timings - they don't always 'mesh' together - that's why it's recommended to buy a kit - because they have been tested together and verified to work. Except, when there's a problem for a customer/buyer trying to get them to run at spec (OC is another story). :)
Click to expand...

I am thinking of returning the memory I bought and just getting 2x16 kit.

Now the issue is, I wanted to get dual rank memory for the 2x16, but there is no way to tell if its single or dual rank now.
 
eddie500 said:
I am thinking of returning the memory I bought and just getting 2x16 kit.

Now the issue is, I wanted to get dual rank memory for the 2x16, but there is no way to tell if its single or dual rank now.
Click to expand...
Right. Also, there's a problem of opening the package - and then it's open. If you find a store/vendor who allows open packages to be returned and you are careful with the packaging - you could check - but, then what are you going to do - keep returning it until you find single-rank? I think there's not much that can be done?
 
Kingston has in the spec if it is dual rank and most there kits are.
Also you can just run 4x8 single rank to get the same effect and as long as you purchase 2x8GB of the same sticks you already have it should work just fine.
The trouble with running 4 sticks usually comes from running different memory chips.
 
While I admit I'm a dumbass, I've only ever rarely been able to get four matched sticks running. Last upgrade I wnt with 2x16GB dual rank and they OC great.
 
What would you guys do?
Keep the 4x8gb I have that runs at 2600 Cas 18?

Return the 2x8gb, then grab 2x16gb? Probably looking at the 3200 Cas 16 for $130 and may be stuck with single rank memory.

Is 2600 cas 18 really that slow for a 9900k? Would be gaming now on a 1440p resolution.




dasa said:
Kingston has in the spec if it is dual rank and most there kits are.
Also you can just run 4x8 single rank to get the same effect and as long as you purchase 2x8GB of the same sticks you already have it should work just fine.
The trouble with running 4 sticks usually comes from running different memory chips.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are right they do mention the ranking. What is interesting is the cheaper line of memory is the single rank. It seems all the cheaper memory is now single rank. Which kind of sucks because I need a low profile heat spreader.

Seems like you have to pay more if you want the dual rank memory.
 
Last edited:
eddie500 said:
Is 2600 cas 18 really that slow for a 9900k? Would be gaming now on a 1440p resolution.
Click to expand...
In some games it will make no difference but in others RAM speed that slow vs a fast XMP kit could mean an extra 10-15% performance and up to 25-30% with overclocking the RAM and maybe 35-40% total with CPU\RAM OC.
 
Just wanted to hear your thoughts on this.

You can see that my memory can't run more than 2600 speed, even though running only 2 modules easily gets me over 3600.

Do you think if I bought a kit of 4x8gb, 3600 memory. Do you think It should work at the 3600 speed or probably not?


Since dual rank 2x16gb is almost impossible to find, I was thinking of just buying a 4x8 kit if that will give me the rated speed.

Thanks
 
Thanks, I actually decided to go to microcenter and pick this Gskill 2x16gb 3600 kit up f4-3600c16d-32gvkc. It seemed a lot of reviews on various sites were saying its like the only dual rank memory left in 16gb. It even seems like the 3200 sticks from gskill have recently went to single sided so these could be the very few double sided sticks left.

I didn't want to take a chance with 4 sticks anymore either.

At microcenter I was able to look through the packaging and see the dual layers on the chip, and the chips I got were from march 2022. Got home, installed them, they were dual rank and work fine. If someone else wants to visually inspect for dual sided stick just be careful because they use thermal pads that can be mistaken for a chip so you should see the silver legs of the chips though and individual chips.

https://www.microcenter.com/product...l-desktop-memory-kit-f4-3600c16d-32gvkc-black

I think I'm done messing around with 4 sticks.

Now I got my dual rank, 3600 cas 16 memory, couldn't be happier.
 
WOW, my new 3dmark benchmark scores with my new dual rank memory is much better. Not the Graphics score, but the CPU score

Check this out, because I ran the benchmark before upgrading.

2x8gb memory in single rank = I believe the timings were 3600 Cas 18

GPU = 10,052
CPU = 10,464

4x8gb 2600 Cas 18

GPU = 10,036
CPU = 10,121

2x16 3600 Cas 16,

GPU = 10,061
CPU = 11,442


For some reason the CPU score was so much better with the 2x16 Cas 16 memory. Running the old 4x8gb at 2133 Cash 15, or SPD speed = 10,059.
I'm really not sure why my CPU score was that much better, and much better than running 2x8gb at 3600 Cas 16.
 
Can't say I didn't warn ya.
I think you are putting too much expectation in this dual rank RAM and needlessly making it some sort of hill you are willing to die on. It is a marginal advantage and in real life modern resolutions, basically a non-existent advantage. You would be far better off with a stable system at the RAM amount you want and tighten the timings over time after you have a smooth sailing system.
 
Last edited:
I'm read different views of having your memory with dual rank capability.

Some people claim dual rank gives you big boosts in speed, but I do know that my 3d Mark CPU score went up big either from the extra 16gb of memory, doubtful, or because of having dual rank memory.

3dMark doesn't seem to make my system use more than 10gb, but from adding the dual rank memory my cpu score went from 10,500 to 11,500. Since the memory speed was mostly the same, 3600 cas 18 vs 3600 cas 16, most of this increase could have been because of having the dual rank memory.

Either way, if you are setting up a system, you might as well make sure you have the dual rank capability.
 
Did you check the QVL? GA QVL should tell you how many sticks they support at that speed and how many ranks the memory is. Literally find what complies with what you want and copy and search those part numbers until you find a set that is priced in your budget.
 
bigdogchris said:
Did you check the QVL? GA QVL should tell you how many sticks they support at that speed and how many ranks the memory is. Literally find what complies with what you want and copy and search those part numbers until you find a set that is priced in your budget.
Click to expand...

I didn't check but I'll say this, if you don't want issues with having to run at lower speeds then I would say to use only 2 modules of dual rank memory. From my research it seemed people even had issues who bought 4 sticks together from what I read online.

I'm really not sure of anything but I certainly would not want this head ache again that is for sure. I'm very happy with my Gskill 3600 cas 16 16gbx2 dual rank memory, my CPU benchmarks improved greatly in 3dmark. Ram speed does matter a lot, and I really believe the dual rank memory does matter also.

Definitely don't do what I did and get mismatched ram if wanting to upgrade. You should probably check the QVL and get a matching 4 set if you want the least chance of having issues.

If you want to get dual rank memory I would say to go into a store and you can usually see through the packaging and can tell if both sides of the ram have individual chips, just be careful you don't mistake one side for a large thermal pad in place of the chips.
 
Running 4x DDR4 DIMMs on the Intel platform is fine. You can even reach fairly high clock speeds doing it. You don't have the same limitations on the Intel side that you do on the AMD side. The latter's memory controllers aren't as good when it comes to compatibility and running multiple sets of modules. Intel's can usually do it without too much trouble. You do need to be running matched pairs of modules. It's even better to get modules that come four to a kit.
 
Ryzen 5000 memory controller is very good with 4 sticks of RAM maybe even better than Intel 12.
With 4x8GB b die capable of up to 4000c15 I have no frequency limit difference vs two sticks.

Ryzen 1000-3000 did have some trouble with each generation getting better allowing for higher speeds and less compatibility issues with different brands of RAM.

Both brands have similar problems.
When it comes to running sticks with different chips there is a much higher chance of problems.
4 dual rank sticks are harder to run than 4 single rank.
MB PCB thickness plays a roll in max stable clock speed with 4 sticks with most cheaper MB only having 4 PCB layers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top