Opinions on Intel build for Video Editing/Encoding (and later gaming) for a friend.

Discussion in 'Computers & Gadgets' started by Cyber Akuma, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. Cyber Akuma

    Cyber Akuma Limp Gawd

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    I am helping build a PC for my friend. His primary use will be Video Editing/Encoding, and his secondary use will be for gaming, though due to the limited budget and video encoding requiring a good CPU and amount of memory, we decided to actually hold off on the GPU/gaming for now as that's not as important as the video editing, and just drop in a GPU later when he can afford it. He has a budget of $1000-$1200. So before we pull the plug and start buying the parts, I wanted to ask people's opinions on the parts list.

    RGB is not important and we will not be overclocking. Also, there were many constraints and special cases I dealt with that I want to cover before mentioning the parts lists since I am sure these will be some of the more common questions people will have about the parts list:

    1: Please, no arguments about Intel/AMD, please. I have answered this question dozens of times while I was piecing this thing together and have many reasons not to go AMD, but among them some of the biggest are that: 1. I can get a 9700K for $30 cheaper ($300) than I could find a 3700x ($330) anywhere, 2. The 9700K seemed to be roughly the same performance at the 3700x and in many gaming benchmarks even surpass it by a bit. 3: A lot of this build at this point has been centered around the motherboard, and having to change that would require changing half the parts, as even the case was specifically chosen around this motherboard. 4: But most important of all, as mentioned preivously the parts list has no GPU. We are planning to put one in later, but Ryzens don't have an IGP while Intel's CPUs do, and tossing in a GPU would require me to completely discard my entire parts list just to fit one into the budget.... which will be tossed away anyway later when a proper GPU is purchased later, on top of that being a waste I would have to start completely over, so AMD isn't really an option here.

    2: Obviously, if there is a good reason I should not choose some part, there is a much better similarly priced alternative, or other such advice I would want to know, that is the whole purpose of this post of course. That being said, I spent several days researching all these before I picked them, so please try to give me advice on the parts list itself instead of just completely ignoring the list and spending a few minutes putting together a completely different list. I am only saying this because people have done that before and it really does not help, especially when most of the time they don't even take the mentioned budget or constraints/uses into consideration.

    3: Yes, I know there are no accessories listed. We were just focusing on trying to budget in the best internals we could for now, just the essentials needed to boot the system and edit video, he already has a mouse and we are doing to see if we can find a cheap keyboard while at Microcenter for now. I have a spare monitor he can borrow in the meantime until he can get a decent one... good monitors are not cheap and would take a large chunk out of the budget otherwise. I already have a valid unused Windows key that I don't mind letting him have.

    Anyway, thank you if you still got through that rambling wall of text, sorry about that, here is the parts list:

    https://pcpartpicker.com/list/y8C4tg

    A few explanations as to why I picked these, since that might help people give me better opinions or recommendations on any changes I could make:

    CPU:
    As mentioned before, I wanted to not scale back the CPU in order to budget in a lower-tier GPU as that would impact the video editing/encoding, so I went with the best CPU I could get in the budget that also had an IGP. We live near a Microcenter that sells the CPU for $300 if we buy it in-person, and an additional $30 off if we get a motherboard with it.

    Cooler:
    The 9700K does not come with one, and I heard (though with conflicting reports) that the 9700K runs hot, so I tried to get a pretty decent cooler that was not absurd overkill like the Noctua D15 for example. Noctua always seems to be on the top or close to the to on most reviews and have been for years... although I was surprised how the U14S was only a little cheaper than the flagship D15. I was considering the Cooler Master Hyper 212 as well due to how much cheaper it is... but it's cooling is not as great and I am worried if it can keep up with a 9700K running at full stock power, as well as worried about the paste that would come with it, I know that the paste that Noctua coolers comes with is one of the best without going into excessive overkill territory.

    Motherboard:
    Usually I prefer ASUS motherboards, and as this is a 9th gen Intel, I wanted to go with a Z390 chipset. However, I read reviews that ASUS dropped the ball with "Faked VRMs" this generation of motherboards ( https://www.hardocp.com/article/2019/01/06/asus_rog_maximus_xi_hero_z390_motherboard_review/7 ), so after more researching and reviews Gigabyte seemed to be the second best bet, and the one that seemed to be the best without hitting extremely high prices was the Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master or the Ultra. I am a little worried about the Master however, some of the reviews on Newegg claimed quality issues with it (I didn't see those for the Ultra, but it also had less reviews so it might not have had as many people use it) but I have no idea how true those user reviews would be as none of the professional reviews I saw talked about this, many seemed to love the board. I was originally considering the Ultra as it's basically a slightly cheaper Master with slightly less features, but it's not always in stock at Microcenter for that bundle deal I mentioned while the Master is. We will still decide which one to go with there if we need any more wiggle-room in the budget.

    RAM:
    There was three major types I was choosing between, Patriot Viper Steel ( PVS432G320C6K ), Corsair Vengance ( CMK32GX4M4B3200C16 ), and G.Skill Trident Z ( F4-3200C16D-32GTZKW ), all three were around the same price-point give-or-take around $10-20. After asking around and getting opinions I decided to go with the G.Skill, it's what I also used myself in my build as they seemed the best option at the time so that works for me. Though I do wonder if 32GB is overkill, the biggest way to save on the budget would be to get the 16GB version, but we are going to have to upgrade it to 32GB or even higher one day as this computer is going to have to last a long time. (Another reason I wanted to not go lower-end on any of the parts if I could fit it in the budget... the Master version of that motherboard for example can go up to 128GB while the Ultra goes up to 64GB... although I don't know how useful a 9700K might be by the time 128GB is actually reasonable..., by then it might be time for a while new build anyway).

    SSD:
    Yes I know, why SSD and not NVME? That's actually because of a total screwup that's my fault. This SSD is the one part which was already purchased in preparation for building a PC last Black Friday (plans fell through and got delayed, which is why we are doing it now), I didn't know NVME was a thing until recently, which is why I recommended this SSD back then. So we can't really change that as we already have it and it's way too late to return it. That one is set in stone. I was hoping we could also add a HDD for storage.... but not sure how much we can go over budget, we will be looking a the OEM drives that Microcenter has while we are there for the CPU/Motherboard.

    Case:
    He mentioned that he wanted to keep the option open to install a Blu-Ray drive in it eventually, so I was looking for a case with a 5-inch bay. The motherboard also has a USB-C header and while not critically important, I wanted to see if I could get a case that fit both requirements and more or less would be compatible with most of the headers of the motherboard without costing a lot. (Sadly, this invalidates the case I almost chose, the LIAN LI PC-O11, due to having no 5 inch bay). This case is the best I found that fits all those. A 5 inch bay, USB 2.0 ports, USB 3.0 ports, and now comes in a version with the USB-C upgrade already installed (Was originally an additional add-on). A little worried about temperatures though, it seems to be between the same performance to slightly worse performance than similar cases in terms of temperatures, although by removing some of the soundproofing you can increase that by about an additional 10-12 degrees. The only other one I found was a very very nice case by Cooler Master.... that was $300.

    PSU:
    One of the most important parts you should NEVER skimp out on IMO, a bad PSU can wreck the rest of your system. SeaSonic seemed to top most of the reviews and charts yet again that I read, and I use SeaSonic myself, been running a 2012 build nearly 24/7 flawlessly. The PRIME/Titanium line seems to be the best SeaSonic has to offer right now, so I went with that. When trying to decide on how many Watts I would need, PSU calculators seemed to show around 480-550, so to be safe I wanted to go 650, but the 750 wasn't that much more expensive and figured had good wiggle room for future updates and I wanted to account for aging since as I said he would be using this for a very long time... plus some people were recommending I would need at least 750 anyway... although I don't know if they might have just been exaggerating.

    So... that's it. Yeah I know, sorry about the wall of text.... again. That is what I am trying to build and all the reasons why I chose the parts I did. Does anyone have any additional comments, opinions, or ideas to make or know of why I should/should not use any of these parts or have a better replacement in mind?

    Thank You
     
  2. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Your friend needs a new friend. ;)

    I kid. It’s obvious you are genuinely trying to help him out. Here’s my suggestions.

    Bad case choice for the money unless he just likes that one. $160 is a lot for a case.
    Heres one for for $50. Cougar makes good cases.
    https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811553033

    Totally overkill PSU choice. No way that rig needs a $170 PSU. A bronze - gold is fine form the major players like SeaSonic or EVGA or Corsair. Platinum or Titanium is just wasting money. You should look at slickdeals.net and not be paying over $70-$80 for the PSU in that machine. I’ve gotten 850 watt name brand golds for $85 range many many times.
    Here’s a search for you to get some ideas
    https://slickdeals.net/newsearch.php?forumchoice[]=4&forumchoice[]=9&forumchoice[]=10&forumchoice[]=13&forumchoice[]=25&forumchoice[]=30&forumchoice[]=38&forumchoice[]=39&forumchoice[]=41&forumchoice[]=44&forumchoice[]=53&forumchoice[]=54&forumchoice[]=71&q=Psu&firstonly=1


    Bad choice on processor. Cause the next gen consoles from both Microsoft and Sony are 8 core 16 thread 3rd gen Ryzens. Game engines will start using 16 threads and he’ll only have 8.

    You say you don’t want AMD because it costs too much since you have to buy a GPU? That’s nonsense. Buy a 2700x now with an older x370 or x470 motherboard. The motherboard will cost half what you are spending and the processor will be 2/3rds what you are spending and his video workstation performance for rendering will be faster now! And it’ll come with a heat sink and not that overpriced nonsense for $90. That heatsink you picked out is completely overpriced for this build!!! I don’t do big aircoolers anymore anyway. About 10 years ago I went to AIO water coolers and I’ve never looked back. You can get a decent AIO water cooler for $60, but you won’t need it if you go the AMD route. Just use the one they bundle.

    Then add with the money you saved a 5700 graphics card for $300 at Microcenter and he can game now at 1440p without issue - and not have to upgrade again to do even the most basic of games. Onboard video sucks and means he can’t play any game out there at 60FPS unless it’s > 15 years old.

    It’ll be a much higher performing and longer lasting machine for the changes. He’ll be able to do video encoding now and play games now. And he’ll still be able to for the next five years because he’ll effectively have just about the same hardware in the next gen upcoming consoles.


    I did similar for a friend a few months back. This is the route I chose for him:
    https://hardforum.com/threads/1600-all-in-gaming-build-quick-gut-check.1976067/#post-1044069527
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  3. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    think i paid about 330 for my 2700x back in the day. (and been worth every penny) in the next few months ill be selling it for about 150-180 just so i can trade up to the 3900 series. I left amd back in the s939 days cause they didnt have anything worth a crap till ryzen series. Im sure im not the only person that will be selling 2000 series just to get a newer one. AM4 is a heck of a nice socket if you ask me
     
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  4. Cyber Akuma

    Cyber Akuma Limp Gawd

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    Hmmm, thanks for the case suggestion. Will be reading reviews on that. It's a shame that it lacks USB-C but that's very rare to find even if you ignore having 5 inch bays, that one is pretty significantly cheaper though. Will have to look into that to see if it's a viable option if I need to lower the price of the parts and would be willing to forego the USB-C port.

    And yeah, the PSU is a bit overkill, but I have seen first hand multiple times what happens if you pick a poor PSU and want to do everything to avoid that. I was trying to lower it, I didn't want to go lower than the 650 Watt Gold version of that PSU, issue is that that version is only about $20 or so cheaper from what I found of the one I had picked anyway.

    I can't say I agree with the rest however. I was originally looking into if a 2700x would be a viable replacement, but it seemed to underperform in many aspects, especially videogames. I was then told that the 3700x is the one that is more comparable to the 9700K, not the 2700x. And even that doesn't outperform the 9700K in many aspects, namely gaming. The lack of an IGP really is a big blow, because we want to put in a high-end card such as an RTX 2070 Super in it in a few months. It's a total waste of money to buy a GPU for only a few months just to replace it. Currently the game he is most interested in playing is Starcraft 2, which the IGP should be able to run just fine.

    I especially don't want to limit my upgrade options by buying an older board since this thing is going to have to last a long time.

    And that's not even counting how I basically would have to toss out every part I have chosen except the RAM and SSD if I do the AMD route as everything was chosen around this CPU and Motherboard.

    Sorry but the lack of an IGP is a huge one that makes AMD not viable for this.
     
  5. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    Sounds like you already know what you want. There isn't really anything else to say because you've already made up your mind.
    To be clear, you don't want to discuss other possibilities because it would make you have to "start over" with a new parts list.
    Emphasis, because we're talking literally about the planning stages of a build before any money has been committed.
    As in, the point in which "starting over" costs nothing.

    More to the point however, you haven't even specified why an IGP is a requirement. Or even what NLE your friend uses or intends to use or what optimizations are necessary. Additionally your post before the edit didn't even specify that you could "just buy" another graphics card down the line.
    Usually when people give budgets their immediate needs are going to outweigh the down the line ones, and even if they don't they'd at least be upfront that they're holding back cash to buy something bigger.

    Even with all that said, I'm still helping you, but I would prioritize what you're spending entirely differently and build something like this: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zMB6nH
    You're refusing to buy an NVME drive just because you already have an SSD, but refuse to consider just having both. Video editing is benefitted by fast storage. You can have the fastest computer in the world, but if you have slow media to feed it, it won't matter.
    It's slightly over budget. Feel free to strip out the NVME because you refuse (also, for reference, that drive is using a Phison controller and Toshiba TLC Nand which are both a known quantity. It's an excellent "no name" part with literally no differences between it and bigger brands). And spend money elsewhere on components that actually won't improve performance. Cases and CPU cooling system can obviously be changed to whatever you want. Mobo is somehwhat preference, but the Designare is the closest you can get to a Z390 professional solution. It also has Thunderbolt, which if your friend remotely cares about trying to get up efficient DAS storage, will matter a lot. It also has some of the best power components on a board.

    Personally I know you don't know what you're doing, because you're prioritizing an IGP over virtual cores. And you're going with processors that have fewer cores straight up. If your friend is a Premiere editor, then I suppose you're justified. But if he's using an NLE that isn't garbage like DaVinci Resolve it will actually properly use all the system resources. Including all the additional cores.
    That and, well you keep talking about gaming performance. If that's also the priority, then yeah, continue buying Intel. But their value and performance proposition for productivity is tenuous at best. If actual productivity is a priority, I wouldn't go down this route. Especially considering that Intel's gaming performance isn't even that much better, especially once again considering how much better AMD is at productivity.
    Also, the graphics card matters a hell of a lot on NLE's that, once again aren't garbage. They are the difference between literally tens of minutes in not only final rendering but also timeline rendering. Holding off on buying one will more or less make the machine worthless as an editing box until it has one. I hope you have at least something ready to go as a stop gap. Even a 580x would go an enormous way vs having no GPU.

    $1200 is a ton of cash to build a machine that doesn't need a monitor or a graphics card. Your build should definitely consider top end consumer parts. The 3800X/3900X should also be on the table. Easily.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  6. Cyber Akuma

    Cyber Akuma Limp Gawd

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    Which I not only spent days piecing together, but I can already get the CPU cheaper than the Ryzen variants.

    I am not trying to sound stubborn at all, honestly I have been reconsidering many of the parts right now, it's just that switching this to AMD right now would be toss out everything and cut back on it's secondary purpose for a slightly higher cost.

    I mentioned this both in my initial post and in my replies.

    Yes I did, it's literally the second sentence of my initial post. I also mentioned it again when I explained why an AMD would not work.

    Yeah I agree, many people have been suggesting that a 9900K would be a significant improvement for the purposes of video encoding. Initially I thought it would not be possible due to it's cost being nearly half the budget, but after seeing some suggestions it seems like it's not really as unobtainable as I thought.

    You're the second person to recommend a Sythe cooler as well (someone else recommended the Scythe FUMA 2). Had not heard of them before, but I am going to be reading reviews of them now as they would definitely help offset the cost and now multiple people have recommended them.

    As much as I really really want to... I can't really add in that NVME though because as I said, the SSD had already been purchased so that's already a cost taken out of the budget.

    I tried tweaking the motherboard and case a bit to help with the budget, and take more advantage of Microcenter's bundle offers. And I can just barely squeeze in a 9900K..... but that hinges on if the Amazon link that PcPartPicker is trustworthy. All search results lead to the same link.... but I kinda have the feeling something is sketchy about it:

    https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZyJQ3b

    Will also have to look into the case you recommended as well. Seems to more or less have the same feature-set as the cheaper case I had to go with for the 9900K build but is half the cost of the one I looked at.

    I am definitely not ruling it out as a future upgrade, it's just that the SSD is something I have to work with right now. But I would like to upgrade it down the line to NVME for precisely the reason you mentioned.

    I have talked with him about all these part choices before I posted this, and once we have started purchasing the parts, namely the Motherboard and CPU that will have to be purchased at retail, we are going to be seeing if he can add a storage and/or NVME on top of the budget.

    Speaking of NVMes, how does that Sabrent Rocket compare to a Samsung 970 EVO by the way? I have mostly known Samsung as top of the line for solid state storage, but lately their prices seem a large margin higher than the others, is the price to performance worth the much larger difference? The Samsung version of the one you posted for example is $170, almost double the cost of the one you recommended, and that's not even the Pro model.

    I believe he uses Premiere, he definitely doesn't use an NLE setup. For the record, he isn't doing this on a highly professional level, I apologize for any confusion if I made it seem that way. He was doing all of this off of a 2nd gen i7 laptop before this, he wanted the desktop to be an improvement over his laptop for this scenario as well as something that can game on down the line. I know he would not be using any Thunderbolt devices either.

    Yeah, gaming definitely is a priority as well. Not as high as Video Editing, but a close second. (Part of the reason I was a bit on the line if I should try to go for a 9900, since while it would help with video editing, it is pointless over the 9700 for gaming for quite a lot more additional cost.... but if I can fit it in I think the benefit for video editing would be worth it).
     
  7. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The PSU choice isn’t as important as you are making it out to be.

    If the gold SeaSonic is only $10 less than you aren’t looking hard. And why does it have to be SeaSonic. There are multiple power supply companies with 7 to 10 year warranties and all are fine. Again. This build shouldn’t be using a $170 PSU. That’s a absolute waste of the allotted funds. I’ve built many dozens of builds over three decades and used plenty of bronze power supplies. Power supply failures are very uncommon so long as you don’t overload them.

    You’re actually doing your buyer a disservice by buying the 9700. As I and the previous poster suggested and you are costing him more to do it for less performance and future upgradability. You won’t even match the specs of next gen 2020 consoles. Let they sink in. Console game development often drives PC game development. This will be the first generation the consoles have a significant and performance relevant CPU in them as compared to PC gaming. They will be 8 core 16 thread third gen Ryzen with a Navi GPU.
    If you are building a gaming rig you want to last till ~2025 you need 8 cores and 16 threads to match!

    The 9900k is an even worse choice because you are spending half the lightish budget on a CPU and that makes NO sense in this type of build. It’s a small percentage faster in 1080p gaming than a 12 or 16 core core AMD part for the same money and a good deal slower in productivity work — and costs more!!!

    Get this guy a dedicated graphics card in his first go. A nice one. It’ll fit in the budget easily — if you swallow your pride. Anything >= Vega or 1070 is sufficient for 1080p for a long time to come and sufficient for 1440p now. Onboard sucks.

    Ebay has a 10% off coupon right now. (And no tax). That might help.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  8. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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  9. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Buy this 2700x for $189

    https://www.microcenter.com/product/505632/ryzen-7-2700x-37ghz-8-core-am4-boxed-processor-with-wraith-prism-cooler

    Comes with a Wraith Spire CPU heatsink for free which is fine for that processor (saves you $50 or $90 on the Intel Heatsink options)


    With this motherboard for $110 after $30 bundle discount. (I've built with this motherboard before - it's great).

    https://www.microcenter.com/product/600975/x470-aorus-ultra-gaming-am4-atx-amd-motherboard


    So that’s CPU Heatsink and Processor for less than the cost of the Intel I7 9700 alone – and this setup will last longer with its 2020 console release gaming equivalency and also be just as fast for productivity as the 9700 – because of the eight extra threads. If you were to go the Intel route you’d be spending an extra $250 for nothing -- LESS than nothing. ($200 motherboard + $50 heatsink).


    That $250 is almost enough to buy an AMD 5700 graphics card outright, which I heard they had on sale for $300 at microcenter (1080 equivalent) Toss in the $125 power supply savings buying that Thermaltake 750 watt PSU over the expensive Seasonic you had picked out, and add the the money you save on buying a less expensive case and you can buy your desired 2070 Super now -- maybe even a discounted 2080. I bought my EVGA 2080 brand new sealed for $555 from a guy off the forums here.

    He can have his cake and eat it too all on his original budget - without gimping along for six months saving yet more money to spend on an equivalent performing machine..

    This AMD based machine will last longer in relation to console game development (as compared to the Intel 9700), have more upgrade paths (can still move to Ryzen three later if he wants (12 core/24 thread)), and will be just as fast or faster for productivity purposes than the Intel 9700 system AND he can game with the best of them NOW at 1080P or 1440P resolutions. It's a no brainer, IMO.

    -----------

    if you want the Ryzen third gen you'll need a bios update on the 470x motherboard. It'll handle it fine after that that the only thing you'll be missing out on is PCI-E 4x. (which nothing uses currently and Intel doesn't even have). Some Microcenters will update your 470x Bios for you at the store so that the board will accept 3rd gen Ryzens using one of their own first or second gen CPUs for a nominal fee of $15 - $25 bucks. It's an option - not all stores do it - but a web search shows some stores do.
    Third Gen Ryzen will add about $100 to the cost for a 3700x, over a 2700x, but you get a $50 instant rebate instead of a $30 instant rebate combo with the motherboard. So with the Bios Flash cost you are probably looking at another $100 bucks overall for another 5-15% CPU speed boost with third gen Ryzen. Is it worth it? I'd personally probably rather spend $100 extra on the GPU, since GPU's matter clearly more than CPUs for gaming.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  10. Cyber Akuma

    Cyber Akuma Limp Gawd

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    Yes, the 9900K would be pointless if it was just for gaming, but as previously discussed it's NOT just for gaming, that is why I am even considering it otherwise I would not even bother. And you are arguing updates while trying to shove in older-gen hardware just to fit a GPU within the budget.

    You scaled back literally everything just to shove in a previous-gen CPU and Motherboard so you can attempt to force in an AMD build.

    If ALL you are going to do in this topic is triple-post about attacking me, insulting me, and trying to be utterly unreasonable (Notice other people have tried to work with me with retooling the parts for 9700 or 9900) by repeatedly ignoring me, acting as if engines are just going to go 16-core because of consoles of all things, and refusing to listen to any argument that isn't "Go AMD" (I did attempt a half dozen AMD builds before this BTW) then don't bother responding as you clearly care more about making sure this is AMD and nothing but AMD instead of actually responding to the topic.

    Really, people like you make me not even want to consider AMD even for myself for a future build just because they are so unreasonable in accepting someone having an Intel route.
     
  11. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Look at my sig.

    I've got an Intel Rig, and my next rig will almost certainly be AMD -- and I'll too have to be upgrading sometime 2020 when the next gen consoles hit the scenes to keep up with game engine updates.

    I've definitely most almost always had an Intel rig. 6 AMD rigs in 30 years (AMD K6-200, AMD K62-450, AMD Duron 600, AMD TBird 1.3, AMD BE2450, AMD Ryzen 1700), as compared to > 20+ Intel Rigs) But right now AMD is on top. If you can't see that - that's on you -- too bad it affects your friend.

    Why are you so glued to the Intel Rig and don't say it's because you have to start all over. The only thing you've bought is the SSD. Nothing else is purchased. There is no starting over. You are just stuck to the Intel idea due to pride, or stubbornness.

    It's laughable you don't think console capability and game developement drives and limits PC game engine development. It does and has for the last decade and a half.

    All the "scaling back" I did is not actually "scaling back". It's putting the available budgeted money where it matters. Since this is a fixed budget and not a sky is the limit build, you can make very sensible compromises that won't affect performance or longevity and get 90-95% of the way there for 40-50% the cost.

    You want to build a rig first and foremost for video processing productivity - Go any comparable AMD produce with more cores over 9700 for a clear improvement. You want to build a rig that's close secondary purpose is for gaming for the long term and you are telling him to use integrated graphics with a soon to be outdated 8 core/8 thread CPU? Get out of here!

    Meanwhile spending an extra $100 on a case for what?, an extra $125 on a power supply over a perfectly functioning 750 watt modular unit with good ratings, and extra $90 on a CPU cooler that's wholly unnecessary, and extra $100 on an Intel motherboard that offers nothing more? That's over $400 wasted and yet you're going to give him IGP???


    It is you who are set in your ways and unwilling to consider something else -- not me. Think about it.

    If you came here and said you already had the 9700 and the motherboard we'd not be having this discussion. You have no parts. There's a reason people are suggesting other than what you've put together.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  12. Cyber Akuma

    Cyber Akuma Limp Gawd

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    Yes, and yet, I have had people with AMD builds who were far more reasonable in discussing possible options for this over insisting it HAS to be AMD or nothing like you have been so dead-set about it and nothing else. Not even working with the parts list but just linking to random parts.

    If the Ryzens had an IGP it wouldn't be as big an issue, but unfortunately it is. I was surprised when I found out AMD's processors of all things didn't include one when Intel did. The X570 boards I have seen seem to be pricier than their z390 equivalent too, and if I was going Ryzen I would go 3700x, not 2700x.

    That's not even bringing up that the 9700/9900 tend to at worst tie and many times run better than the 2700/3700 in gaming tests.

    I know no GPU for now is rather unorthodox, THAT is why I chose Intel, because without having to worry about fitting in a GPU I would not have to worry about compromising the other parts. But every AMD build has been all about compromises. Compromise the CPU with a previous-gen, compromize the motherboards in features and with a previous-gen, compromise the PSU, compromise EVERY part... just to also fit in a compromised GPU that will not be as good as the one being planned for a future upgrade. Had this been a higher budget build that could also have already had the GPU in it, swapping the Intel parts for AMD would have been far more trivial. I tried, you think I didn't try several AMD builds before just deciding to switch with Intel.... but some people just DON'T want to accept that and just have to try to force AMD in.

    Look, I really don't want to make this whole topic nothing but an Intel/AMD fight please?
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  13. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'm not endlessly arguing AMD. They are on top right now for a limited budget build - which is what you are building.
    You don't need a 570x board for AMD. A 470x board (or even a 370x board) is just fine with a BIOS update. Again the only thing you are really lacking with the 470x board is PCI-E 4x, and your x390 Intel board won't have that either.

    Good luck...
     
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  14. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    You don't want opinions, you want validation.
     
  15. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    Seasonic is bulletproof and bespoke with their own designs and manufacturing. I think it's worth it to buy them over cheaply made OEM parts with the same internals and different stickers. However, Seasonic also makes different grades of PSUs. The gold I linked is plenty and it's $70 less than the ops Platinum. Which I would say is a very reasonable middle ground in terms of pricing versus actual performance needed that will not fail, but will only be slightly less efficient.

    I wasn't going to reply to this thread again, because the op doesn't have the ability to really take suggestions. He's locked in. I only responded because you've directly responded to me. I would say you are also ignorant about coding for NLE's. Premiere values clockspeed over anything else. I noted this in my previous post. If all you do is edit in Premiere, the highest clocked processor is the best. It pays no mind to how many cores you have. Its a very poorly coded program especially in this regard. But as a result the 9900k is in fact the fastest consumer part for Premiere.

    To restate, if the ops friend actually is using a well coded NLE like Blackmagic DaVinci Resolve then more threads and more system resources will matter, but clock speed still plays an important roll. The 9900k isn't slow by any stretch of the imagination and is a very proven part for video editing, but its dominance across everything is definitely called into question with AMD's 3k series Ryzen parts. On balance however, Ryzen is having teething issues that Intel simply does not as a more mature platform. Still, the 3900x should definitely be considered.

    Spending half the budget on the CPU is irrelevant. He listed a budget and what he wants to buy with it. It's only our responsibility to offer for those parts and that budget. I don't know what his turn around time for buying a GPU is. If he's going to drop another $500 in a month or whatever the time frame is, then that is his prerogative. Especially if he will then have the funds to do so. I can at least "pretend" that we're dealing with a mature adult that knows how to manage his income and can therefore be able to forecast when he'll have the budget to buy his next part.

    I also noted that not having a GPU for an NLE is basically a worthless machine for any level of production. He either knows where more funding is coming from, or he's a fool. But it's not up to me to decide how, when, and where he spends the budget.


    Um, no. With no GPU I can still easily make a 3900X rig without compromises. It would roughly look like what I built with the 9900k. Which I would still state is easily the best options given your constraints. Far better than the compromised builds you keep putting out there. Cutting corners on things that matter and placing more funds into things that don't.

    https://pcpartpicker.com/list/mQktxG

    Technically I built this system over budget. But it also still contains an NVME drive. Eliminating that makes only very slightly over budget. And you could buy a much less expensive motherboard, but I basically threw in the absolute best solution which also includes Thunderbolt, a connector I wouldn't want to be without as a video editor in 2019. There are other solutions that cost $100-$150 less than what I listed. A 3900x build is definitely inside the budget.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  16. Cyber Akuma

    Cyber Akuma Limp Gawd

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    That's why I have been willing to replace several of the parts others have mentioned? I am just not willing to toss it all out and restart with scaled back parts just so I can toss a GPU in just to go AMD. Again, the lack of an IGP is a bit hurdle here which means to go AMD I would have to compromise just about every part. Funny how people in many other places were able to have a reasonable discussion about Intel/AMD and routes I can take with both without resorting to attacks and ad hominem against me just because I am pointing out valid issues with going AMD for this build.

    Speaking of maturity....

    Yeah, nice, real nice.... that's why I was looking at many of the suggestions you made and trying to revise the build on some of your suggestions? I was also trying to find a Prime Gold version of the PSU you mentioned too, but the 750 watt version of that seems to be not available everywhere.
     
  17. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    You could buy a much better AMD CPU for the job, a great MBO and a temporary GPU for less or same than your current build, with no compromises. But you don't want to because...Intel, or whatever.
     
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  18. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    yea every single article i have ever read puts the AMD cpus as much faster with video editing/encoding tasks. The Intel seems to hold a lead in most but not all gaming scenarios with it pretty much dead even with 1440[ or higher resolutions. Video cards themselves can be pretty handy speeding things up as well with their open cl and cuda functions. For a gaming only pc it can make sense to go with the intel setups.

    And then you have this
    238926_fail.png
    lol
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
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  19. Kaolinchemist

    Kaolinchemist Limp Gawd

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    [QUOTE=" Video cards themselves can be pretty handy speeding things up as well with their open cl and cuda functions"[/QUOTE]

    I agree. I do a good bit of video editing Encoding and depending on what NLE you use Video Cards can make a big difference in encoding times. I use Sony (Magix) Vegas Pro 16 and I can attest that GPU acceleration speeds up encoding times. So I wouldn't necessarily throw out the idea of a video card. I use a EVGA 1060 and it actually makes a difference for a small cost. You need to find out what editing software they plan on using and see if GPU accelerated encoding would help him.
     
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  20. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    You have that backwards. The only reason to go Intel is for a pure gaming rig where all you care about is gaming performance and nothing else.
     
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  21. OFaceSIG

    OFaceSIG [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yep... If you're specifically building a workstation I would go AMD all day long. As Dan said, If you're trying to be as competitive as possible for gaming, Intel still holds that crown, no doubt.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
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  22. Cyber Akuma

    Cyber Akuma Limp Gawd

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    That's the thing, it's for both video editing and gaming that he will use as his main desktop at home.
     
  23. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    So with that being said he really wants a medium/low grade card installed like a 1060 or rx580 for the open cl and cuda functions. (Not to mention it will game 10x times better) those cards can be purchased right here used for around 100 bucks with still having warranty.
     
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  24. OFaceSIG

    OFaceSIG [H]ard|Gawd

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    Unless gaming is the primary focus, I wouldn't spend the extra money.
     
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  25. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    that and the fact in some work tasks the AMD cpus are twice as fast while being cheaper
    Capture.PNG
     
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  26. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    That specific test was a bit of an outlier as I indicated in the review.
     
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  27. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    Capture.PNG

    I do kinda wish you guys add handbrake as its a perfect video encode test. (at least its something i use)
    the 3700x stands out as a heck of a cpu for the money!:)
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019 at 11:52 AM
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  28. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    You do realize that the Core i9 9900K and Ryzen 7 3700X aren't that far apart in this test right? It's hardly twice as fast as the Core i9 9900K. The reason the Ryzen 9 3900X is so much faster simply comes down to it having 4 more cores and 8 more threads than the Core i9 9900K.
     
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  29. Ready4Dis

    Ready4Dis Limp Gawd

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    I think his point was, one is a $330 CPU and the other is a $500 CPU. In this specific instance, they are about the same performance. Obviously other work loads not so much. But if the primary use is video editing, it's a data point to consider. Better would be to find out the specific software to be used and find benchmarks of that software. If primary is video editing and secondary is gaming, I would also recommend seriously looking into AMD CPUs. If the primary use is gaming with some video editing, Intel is still king in games (although, not by much anymore).
     
  30. funkydmunky

    funkydmunky 2[H]4U

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    $500 plus a $90 HSF apparently. After tax that's about double.
     
  31. Ready4Dis

    Ready4Dis Limp Gawd

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    Very true, it doesnt include cooler so it ends up being even more. This brings it to about the same price as the 3900x, which wins most rendering/video editing type of stuff (most, but not all). Still, I would see what software he uses and find benchmarks, find the real difference and make an informed decision.
     
  32. Jinto

    Jinto [H]ard|Gawd

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    I don't see how anyone can recommend Intel for this workload. I mean if you are an Intel fanboy and just want Intel, great. However this is for a 'friend' and it would be pretty safe to assume that AMD/Intel doesn't matter to him as otherwise he would have stated the preference.