Opinion: Windows 8 Is Unusable

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by HardOCP News, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. SkribbelKat

    SkribbelKat [H]ardness Supreme

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    Wow, that's like a ray of sunshine (pun intended) to see you _almost_ admit to anything, even if it is just picking a fight with someone.

    It's evasive of you to bring it up since you're just trying to distract me into forgetting about your baiting and snapping at someone that I mentioned earlier, but if you go read that thread, you'll get the idea that many people on this forum don't buy into that idea at all. You already knew that though and were just using it as a chance to make yourself seem justified in accusing someone of being less capable than a child. It's okay to admit that you're being a poopie head. We all do it. :)
     
  2. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    While the default web browser with a clean install of Windows 8 is the IE 10 Metro browser that default can be changed to the desktop version or Firefox, Opera, Chrome or Safari that work on the desktop just like Windows 7. Currently have 20 IE 10 tabs open across two browsers on two screens, it's no different than what it would be on Windows 7, except maybe a but faster. It's definitely much nicer to zoom and scroll with my touch mouse and touch pad than in Windows 7. Beats the snot of a mechanical scroll wheel for that stuff even on the desktop.

    With Windows 8 though it's tablets, hybrids and laptops. The next ultrabooks are being mandated by Intel to all support touch. In the Windows market there's just no doubt that tablets and touch are going to grow simply because that's the focus of the new hardware.
     
  3. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    By stretch I mean nonsense.
     
  4. wonderfield

    wonderfield [H]ardness Supreme

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    I may be an asshole, but I'm not a liar. I was genuinely interested, as was he.
     
  5. Scythe5

    Scythe5 Limp Gawd

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    I blame Ballmer. ;)

    I sum it up like this. You like it, you use it, great. I hate it, refuse to use it, great. Everybody is happy.
     
  6. SkribbelKat

    SkribbelKat [H]ardness Supreme

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    So if you weren't starting a fight, why were you being so mean to someone else? By luring them into an argument about Windows 8 if you didn't want to "win" and feel better than them doing it?
     
  7. Runningflame570

    Runningflame570 Limp Gawd

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    I'm happy for your preference, but that is just your preference and you have no data to suggest that others share it or would if they were exposed to the option.

    It's also all well and good to know that Intel is mandating touchscreens which will just put their ultrabooks even more into an expensive niche, but that is actually irrelevant to the video which started this topic.

    As a desktop OS Windows 8 is a failure, if you're trying to argue that it isn't as bad on a tablet or something that is all well and good but it's besides the point and is just moving the goalposts. I'd also suggest that it is far from guaranteed that it succeeds on tablets, much less phones (thus far it has been a Zune-like failure there) and that you may be short-sighted given your long-term professional dependence upon Windows.
     
  8. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Nope, a 46 year old man who works in this industry every single day. However, would there be a reason you are taking it personally?
     
  9. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Fair enough. The handwriting recognition in Windows has been pretty good for a long time now. The technology hasn't made any big leaps since its introduction in Windows XP Tablet PC Edition but its much definitely faster, accurate and stable since then. Not for everyone but I like it much more than a touchscreen keyboard for text input.
     
  10. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    So, how exactly do define a failure? Something that you do not like? By the way, that person who made that video does not have a clue what he is doing which is obvious just by watching that video.

    Without even see the later explanation, I already figured he was laying his hand on the touchpad and then trying to blame the OS for his screw up. (PEBKAC to be exact.) After that, I could not respect anything he said anymore. :rolleyes:
     
  11. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Oh, and I find Windows Phone to be fantastic and a great success even though it is not taking over the market. I personally find it get the work done and is much better than iOS or Android for me.
     
  12. Runningflame570

    Runningflame570 Limp Gawd

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    Sales contracted meaning that it didn't drive demand, the interface is considered heavily flawed by both a large subset of users and usability experts, and thus far it has done little to improve Microsoft's prospects in any area.

    For a more simple explanation, I consider any operating system which uses mystery meat navigation after this much time to get it right as a failure.
     
  13. fdiaz78

    fdiaz78 2[H]4U

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    Windows phone is tanking in the mobile market.
     
  14. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Not sure exactly what options you're talking about here.

    I'm sure than Intel is thinking about price as well and expects the prices of touchscreens to decline as production ramps up. Touch is a big part of Windows 8 and quite relevant to this video. And for what ever reason people think that touch is only on the screen, it can be put into mice and tack pads, even on desktop computers. If you've not tried any type of modern touch device with Windows 8, be it a screen, track pad or mouse, then you're missing some elements that can make Windows 8 MUCH easier to use.

    Vista was a failure on the desktop and still managed to be used on the desktop by more people than all other non-Windows OSes combined at the height of its deployment and sold 300 million copies and made money for Microsoft. If that is the type of failure that Windows 8 is on the desktop I think Microsoft can live with that as long as they can make some inroads with tablets and touch. All of this stuff is in a state of flux, hardware is going to improve a lot this year particularly on the x86 side and there probably is going to be an update to Windows 8 this year.

    No matter what though I just don't see Microsoft just dropping tablets and touch, sticking in a 20 year interface again and thinking that that will revive the Windows PC market. It's going to have to be a hell of a lot more than just an option to do the same old thing that's 20 years old to turn the market around.
     
  15. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Actually Windows Phone sales are growing much better than Windows PC sales these days. Of course Windows PCs sales are shrinking so that's not necessarily saying a whole lot.
     
  16. wonderfield

    wonderfield [H]ardness Supreme

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    Very much so. Still an interesting platform, though. One I wouldn't mind being a user of if the current handsets weren't so utterly terrible.
     
  17. mdburkey

    mdburkey Limp Gawd

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    I agree with this in principle although I think he went a bit far.
    Windows 8 isn't unusable, but it definitely violates a LOT of human factors guidelines for good UI design.

    One of the things he points out that I have had several other people comment to me about that they couldn't stand -- the fact that it treats a touchpad swipe like it was a touchscreen swipe. The motions you generally use to move the cursor on a laptop touchpad are almost unusable in Windows 8 when configured for default behaviour.
     
  18. CrimsonKnight13

    CrimsonKnight13 Lord Stabington of [H]ard|Fortress

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    I'm all for differing opinions, but this is practically free lunch for the wolves. Why make such threads (regardless of who does it), only to see them locked down & people batted around at the end of it?

    Windows 8 is quite truly a whipping boy for techies who hate MS one way or another.
     
  19. Basiq Flac

    Basiq Flac [H]Lite

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  20. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Sales had already been contracting in the PC market before Windows 8. And the vast bulk of Windows 8 devices that have been on sale since launch are nothing more than Windows 7 machines with 8 on them. Not a lot of touch capable hardware, very few tablets.

    Windows 8 is simply much more tied to hardware than prior versions. Once the hardware gets out there and the sales are still sluggish then there's huge problem for Microsoft and Intel as well.
     
  21. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    AGAIN you bring up hardware and software support.
    We freaking get it already.

    I never said hardware and software compatibility was bad, EVER.
    FFS, I said that it would have been nice had Microsoft built an OS that gave us options.

    Quit bringing up the whole hardware and software support, we so fucking get it already. :rolleyes:
     
  22. SkribbelKat

    SkribbelKat [H]ardness Supreme

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    At least it's a tangent argument instead of a insult bait and attack. I'll take him rambling about unrelated stuff that aren't central to the user interface discussion over him picking fights luring people into being upset so he can seem like a calm, voice of reason.
     
  23. rudy

    rudy [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The reason MS is working us to work for them is the same reason apple forces its users to install itunes and and google is now cutting support for windows devices. That is what companies do they leverage their power to get them back into, or into markets they are not strong in. It is the most fundamental business tactic and nearly every product you have ever used probably has some tie in to this. Do you really think anything you have used was really just a good product?

    Second in order for the 4 Cs of this very video to be true by the very nature of that you must be forced to do things. Otherwise how can the UI be consistent if everyone is always allowed to just revert back to using the old system? How can anything move forward. The entire history of MS has been scared with companies that would in their own selfish interest not work with MS to move forward and therefor MS had to get in and directly compete with them. Office was made for exactly this reason.

    I do not know if MS will be successful its a hard market but I do know that most of the decisions they made with windows 8 were the right decisions for them to make. I would have just tried a little harder to smooth people in.
     
  24. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    I've never said that options were bad, just I don't think that a Metro off option would do a whole lot to stimulate Windows sales long term since that's targeted at a audience that's declining.

    Yes Windows 8 has changes in the UI that are targeted for touch and tablets, hard to miss it when its right in front of me everyday. I just want someone to explain to me how an OS that runs the same apps the same way on the desktop as Windows 7, and the desktop is where I spend the VAST majority of my time when using Windows 8 on my workstation, is a tablet OS.
     
  25. Gmok Bonecrusha

    Gmok Bonecrusha [H]ard|Gawd

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    I switched from W7 toW8 for one reason. It's new. I'm just moving on. I see zero reason to move the rest of the fam over to W8 though.

    Will learn and ask questions as I go. After a couple months of W8 I like it. Snagged Start 8, and it fixed most of my gripes. I use desktop to metro 80/20. Easy peasy.

    Have had no driver issues, even from Creative. Like the faster boot time, I like how my profile on MS's cloud. It's not bad.

    As for the video...He says he spent a month with the OS and can't find a way to close an app in Metro? It's unusable? Come on. I'm no fanboy, but really?
     
  26. Matthew Kane

    Matthew Kane [H]ardness Supreme

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    Imo I agree with some of the points presented with his 4 C's based on the usability issues with W8 but it is far from being called unusable.
     
  27. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You still don't get it.
    The GUI itself was designed for a tablet, not a keyboard and mouse, at all.

    Everyone I've talked to who uses it with a keyboard and mouse all have huge problems due to the swiping functions, and the difficulty that comes with using a mouse in place of one's fingers.
    Simply put, Windows 8 was designed for a tablet, not "with tablets in mind".

    Those with keyboards and mice need to use Start8.
    In fact, Start8 is essential to those who are using Windows 8 outside of a tablet environment.


    Dude, who the fuck cares if it "stimulates Windows sales"???
    You say you don't work for Microsoft (I know you don't), yet you talk like a freaking sales/marketing drone who works for Microsoft. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Do you listen to yourself?
    Yes, turning the Modern UI (not Metro, get it right!) off actually would help improve sales because it would bring people back to what they know and love, the classic Windows GUI, not a bunch of rectangular buttons that only serve to piss people off.
     
  28. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Just fyi, new ≠ good.
    Silliest reasoning ever.
     
  29. OldBuzzard

    OldBuzzard Gawd

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    God, I do SO love the internet. It used to be that if you were an ignorant twit, only those around you knew it. Now with the internet....clickity click click....and you can display your monumental ignorance and incompetence to the whole world.

    I think that Mr. Boyko would do well to contact my wife. She's 65 (I'm 67) and has been using Win 8 on her W500 for a couple of months now,. She hasn't run into any of the problems and says it's better than Win 7 on a tablet.

    I'm sure that she could teach him how to use Win 8.
     
  30. blinx

    blinx Limp Gawd

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    I'm in the exact same boat as you. I like seeing the advantages of a newer OS that is catered more to new technology like DX11.1 and SSD's. The new Task manager is almost worth the price of admission :cool:

    At my job, we switched to windows 8 to get to know it before we have to support it. After some initial confusion, all of us really enjoy the new OS. My W7 PC at home kinda feels outdated. :confused:
     
  31. blinx

    blinx Limp Gawd

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    I see this is why your PC is still on 10.04.
     
  32. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'll give that one to you, the new Task Manager is pretty awesome.
     
  33. PornoSatan

    PornoSatan 2[H]4U

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  34. PornoSatan

    PornoSatan 2[H]4U

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    Hey you get to do this
    -IM GONNA DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  35. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Damn right. :cool:
    Actually upgrading would be quite easy, I'm just to lazy to want to customize XFCE for the move to 12.04.

    I've also been toying with moving back to Scientific Linux, but Debian distros are just so damn flexible.
    LMDE would have been an option, but WINE doesn't play well with it to my knowledge.
     
  36. phOkaz

    phOkaz Gawd

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    You have pretty much summed my thoughts on windows8 up, I think it is fine for a tablet, not for PCs.
     
  37. blinx

    blinx Limp Gawd

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    haha i didn't know my snarky remark would lead me to some good google searches! Thanks dude :)
     
  38. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    haha, np. ;)
     
  39. Stiletto

    Stiletto [H]ardness Supreme

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    What the fuck do you not understand about "just because it meets your specific needs does not mean it does the same for everyone else"? Goddamn...you are one serious COW(Center Of World) person. "Someone speaks of something I like with less praise than I would give it, therefore they must be STOPPED lest Microsoft be wounded by their piercing blow." For fuck's sake, if you like it so goddamned much, why can you not simply be happy with it?
     
  40. D_Bo

    D_Bo Limp Gawd

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    Is that Wallace Shawn from Princess Bride doing the commentary?

    Inconceivable!!!