Opera Still Not Happy, No One Surprised.

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Rofl-Mic-Lofl

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Opera has alerted the EU over another Windows browser choice issue. They fear that users will click through a (unlikely) popup and won’t bother to look at the next browser selection screen.



A [Microsoft] spokesperson told The Reg: "This scenario is very easy to reproduce in a test lab, but would occur only in unusual cases in the real world. For it to occur with the Browser Choice screen, the user would need to have IE set as their default browser and have never configured it for use. Opera’s example, where a Windows XP user has rejected installation of IE 8 for the year it has been available but suddenly decides to install it is not realistic.”
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I think Opera is still upset that their baby, 10.5, has been out for a reasonably long time but still hasn't made any inroads into the browser market. And I'm not surprised at this, either.
 
Fuck Opera, crap like this makes me not want to use their browser. Chrome FTW
 
If people aren't smart enough to search for a browser they obviously don't give a dang. Opera should go f themselves.
 
Opera's bitching over the years has definitely soured me to using their browser.
 
Opera 10.51 would be amazing if they would just fix the javascript issues. If they spent their time making a polished product rather than trying to undercut IE, they might have a more successful product.
 
I'm trying to like Opera (posting with Opera now) but it just doesn't have the refinement that Chrome has.

They just need to make a better product IMO.
 
450 said:
I'm trying to like Opera (posting with Opera now) but it just doesn't have the refinement that Chrome has.

They just need to make a better product IMO.
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I used to be a pretty avid user of Opera, but the past few releases have been pitiful. Chrome and IE for me.
 
Rofl-Mic-Lofl said:
I used to be a pretty avid user of Opera, but the past few releases have been pitiful. Chrome and IE for me.
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Only reasos I have Opera around is that Chrome doesn't have print preview. Oh and Opera lets me watch the stuff I'm downloading from Megaupload while its downloading.
 
I used Opera back in the day but Firefox has pulled me away. I don't jive with their current UI on Opera.
 
Good title. Opera makes a good product with a lot of innovative features, but it seems like all this whining about browser choice is a poorly disguised attempt to get it's name in the headlines over and over again. Pathetic.
 
Browser market share

Ultimately, I don't think anyone really cares since few people use Opera as it is and constant complaining will push users away, as already displayed by people in this thread...They're just salty Chrome is relatively new and has blown past Opera as well as IE's share being so high, although it has been declining due to users switching to Chrome.
 
Umm if Microsoft programs the OS, its their option to shamelessly plug their browser at every opportunity. Does apple not do the same with OS X?

If you don't like it there's always Linux.
 
I'm with the others that say they won't use Opera because of this. Nobody likes a whiner.
 
AdamNesvick said:
Umm if Microsoft programs the OS, its their option to shamelessly plug their browser at every opportunity. Does apple not do the same with OS X?

If you don't like it there's always Linux.
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apple doesnt have to plug their products, since they have most everything in the OS locked down and non-configurable.
Im using chrome. i actually like IE8 the best but its just slow beyond use.
Cant' wait for a fully working version of IE9


And generally crybaby-mode turns my away from products too. (apple's double standard on super strict lock-down and then crying when microsoft does something similar really makes me dislike apple.)
Also... something about the user is actually opting to install ie8... that is to say... they picked IE8.

The EU is just retarded when it comes to computers it seems. Not everything needs to have 10000 different options.
the linux people should sue because windows comes with notepad/paint installed and doesnt ask you if you want to get openoffice or GIMP
 
bisby said:
The EU is just retarded when it comes to computers it seems. Not everything needs to have 10000 different options.
the linux people should sue because windows comes with notepad/paint installed and doesnt ask you if you want to get openoffice or GIMP
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True, but I still hope that the EU goes after apple about allowing 3rd party mp3/video players to be compatible with iTunes.
 
I think the major complaint from all of these competing browser companies is that they don't think it is "fair" to have to compete with Microsoft, and if not Microsoft, then each other...;) It's like all of these companies, except Microsoft oddly enough, envision a "perfect world" in which only their browser exists...! I find the fact that Opera doesn't even want people to voluntarily choose it from a list--because Opera is afraid people will choose something else--to be just remarkable.

I'm sorry, but neither the EUC nor the DoJ is in the business of making web browsers, let alone improving them, let alone promoting them. So why do these companies keep after these clueless government agencies to the tune of "Help us with Microsoft because, you know, we just can't compete with them, and it's not fair!"

Don't these companies know that the only thing that happened when Netscape tried that same approach was the demise of Netscape? These companies need to develop some degree of self-confidence about themselves and the products they offer to the public--for free, no less. Instead, the refrain from many of these companies is that "Unless Microsoft helps us in some way by deliberately hobbling or hiding its web browser we won't have a chance to compete with it!" Don't they realize that this is the message the public gets from all of this whining? I think it is remarkable.

I use two browsers every day--IE 8 and FF 3.6.3--because each of them has strengths and weakness complemented by the other. I tried Chrome and so far I'm just not impressed--but I'll keep tinkering with it from time to time. I noticed today that compared to rendering the same page in FF, Chrome 4.1.xxx in Win7 looks pretty blurry--that surprised me. Opera so far has underwhelmed me.

If these companies want more people to use their products they need to concentrate on giving them reasons to do so as opposed to begging various degrees of market and turf protection from various governments. Build a better browser and they will come!--it is just as simple as that.
 
WaltC said:
Don't these companies know that the only thing that happened when Netscape tried that same approach was the demise of Netscape?
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Windows sold an OS bundled with a browser. Compuserve/AOL sold internet access bundled with a browser. A browser is not a stand alone product that someone would pay money for. Thats what netscape got so upset about. They didnt like that it was free.

But I would agree that everyone accuses MS of all these horrid nasty things. And while they might not always have the best products, there are alternatives and they dont force you to use theirs.
Then other companies go out of their way to restrict you or force you to use their products... yet MS is still the bad guy. (I think Win 7 and Windows Phone 7 are prime examples of windows admitting to its mistakes and fixing them)

The real issue though may be: according to my friend who works for a major newspaper's website.... somewhere around 15-25% of their subscribers visit the webpage on -IE6-... Granted newspapers get traffic from old people. But I'd dare say that more than just 25% really just dont give a crap about which browser they use.

Some people may get a car with the stock stereo in it. Should kenmore gripe because the car salesman didnt include a brochure on how to get a new stereo? No. because the people that want an aftermarket stereo already know a thing or two about the alternatives, and most of the people who dont know really dont care. You're fighting for the wrong market segment, and pissing off the one you should be fighting for
 
Who the f&*k is opera? Or more the question is, who gives a f&*k who they are. really

And how come the EU isn't harrasing Apple?
 
Opera Mini has always treated me well on my blackberry. As for my desktop, I don't have the need to click on everything or go to sketchy websites. Haven't had an issue with IE since win2k....
 
There's a reason why Opera has pitiful market share. It's because Opera sucks. I install it every new release to see what they've added and I always uninstall because I can't stand it compared to Firefox

Seriously they need to quit their bitching and shove it. Actually make a browser that can compete with Firefox, Chrome and IE8 and then I'll care if they keep opening their mouth.

MS just needs to tell the EU to F off with all this worthless crap.
 
Rob94hawk said:
Who the f&*k is opera? Or more the question is, who gives a f&*k who they are. really

And how come the EU isn't harrasing Apple?
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Believe it or not, Opera makes probably the best mobile browsers out right now (Opera Mini/Mobile) and I prefer Opera Mobile over Pocket IE. That said, I couldn't give two shits about Opera for PCs...
 
Opera's not being malicious or complaining. They're just saying, "Hey, we found a bug!" so that it's known and MS can fix it. MS has been very cooperative with all of this stuff, so I'm sure they'll just fix the issue.

If MS doesn't do something about it, there may be reason to complain. But, it hasn't come to that yet.

BTW, the ballot screen has helped Opera quite a bit already. I think it was a good idea and am glad MS is being such a good sport and cooperating. I think they've realized that improving IE instead of hindering browser awareness is the better way to go about things.

None of this has affecting my feelings towards Opera. The browser and the company are awesome. I can of course point out specific bugs/lack of features I don't like. But, I can do that with any browser.
 
Just tried the newest Opera and not liking the changes. While it wont' get me to quit using it (I'm a whore for SpeedDial) I'm going to be moving towards Firefox and might give Chrome a whirl once it gains more support.
 
EU should tell all open source browsers to not bother them until they all get together and come up with a game plan they all agree with so that they don't have to bother Microsoft one after another. It's getting to the point where it's more harassment than a legitimate complaint anymore.
 
SamuraiInBlack said:
Just tried the newest Opera and not liking the changes.
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If you're on WinXP, use the WinXP theme (as opposed to the classic), use the Opera standard skin and have the menu bar hidden in Opera, the title bar will be hidden and things will look awesome. Also, you'll have more vertical viewing space that way. This is even better if you set the WinXP taskbar to auto-hide. The extra space will make the speeddial buttons bigger too.

Also, Opera now follows the Windows colors scheme better. (Users were complaining about the lack of this big time, so Opera listened.)

More work needs to be done on everything. But, it's pretty awesome. Most of this stuff on WinXP is the result of better Win7 integration.

Also, not sure if you noticed, but the wand button (the key now) and the fast-forward/rewind buttons on the address bar dynamically show now. This allows Opera to have less buttons by default, which is appealing to newbies.

Opera also has a new view/zoom widget that's pretty cool.
 
Opera needs to stop suing and start improving their browser, then perhaps someone will care
 
Rob94hawk said:
Who the f&*k is opera? Or more the question is, who gives a f&*k who they are. really

And how come the EU isn't harrasing Apple?
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I believe they are/were harassing Apple about iPods and iTunes. As far as browsers though, they have such a small market share they probably don't care... yet.
 
talon_262 said:
Believe it or not, Opera makes probably the best mobile browsers out right now (Opera Mini/Mobile) and I prefer Opera Mobile over Pocket IE. That said, I couldn't give two shits about Opera for PCs...
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That's not saying much. Pocket IE is total sh*t, at least when I had my Mogul it was. I'm interested how well WinPhone 7 will do, they better do better than mobile Safari.
 
Evil said:
Opera needs to stop suing and start improving their browser, then perhaps someone will care
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Opera didn't sue. Opera filed a complaint to the European Commission, which represents the European Union. Norway (where the main Opera HQ is at) isn't even part of the EU.

In others words, Opera just let the EC know about the situation and the EC agreed that there was a problem and acted on it themselves.

Although Opera supports the EC decisions, they are not the only supporters.

I guess you could call Opera a measly tattletale though. ;)
 
Operas previous history:
"WAHHHHHHHHH"

Opera's likely future:
"WAHHHHHHHHH"
 
BOO HOO!


enough whining opera, firefox and chrome don't seem to be having any problems
 
All I know is I'm using the latest version of Opera and it's freaking sweet. Most things are animated and they use transparency and fading so it fits with Win7 really nicely, there's thumbnails for tabs, you can select specific tabs with thumbnails from Windows' start menu, there's no top menu, just tabs so the page takes up the whole place, not the top bars and everything's customizable or one click away for hidden menus. Also, all pages seem to work now, except for Youtube's HTML5 videos I think.

I'm pretty happy with it, it looks great, it works, it has great features that other browsers are all copying, etc. but these guys are really not great when it comes to advertising.
 
Shadow2531 said:
Opera didn't sue. Opera filed a complaint to the European Commission, which represents the European Union. Norway (where the main Opera HQ is at) isn't even part of the EU.

In others words, Opera just let the EC know about the situation and the EC agreed that there was a problem and acted on it themselves.

Although Opera supports the EC decisions, they are not the only supporters.

I guess you could call Opera a measly tattletale though. ;)
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Sure, like Opera totally didn't know what the EC would do. Why couldn't they just let Microsoft themselves know about the bug? :rolleyes:
 
Shadow2531 said:
If you're on WinXP, use the WinXP theme (as opposed to the classic), use the Opera standard skin and have the menu bar hidden in Opera, the title bar will be hidden and things will look awesome. Also, you'll have more vertical viewing space that way. This is even better if you set the WinXP taskbar to auto-hide. The extra space will make the speeddial buttons bigger too.

Also, Opera now follows the Windows colors scheme better. (Users were complaining about the lack of this big time, so Opera listened.)

More work needs to be done on everything. But, it's pretty awesome. Most of this stuff on WinXP is the result of better Win7 integration.

Also, not sure if you noticed, but the wand button (the key now) and the fast-forward/rewind buttons on the address bar dynamically show now. This allows Opera to have less buttons by default, which is appealing to newbies.

Opera also has a new view/zoom widget that's pretty cool.
Click to expand...

and it seems to not like it when I have a vast number of tabs open. it just chugged hardcore on me when i opened up a bunch of bookmarks. The previous version before this never did that. Ugh.

So far I'm not liking this new release. It seems to be slow and bloated for the most part, and opening multiple tabs (31 including this one) seems to just make it worse, even after all sites have loaded. The new appearance will take some getting used to, but there's no excuse for this to chug under win7 when the previous release flew and operated like a charm.
 
Shadow2531 said:
Opera didn't sue. Opera filed a complaint to the European Commission, which represents the European Union. Norway (where the main Opera HQ is at) isn't even part of the EU.

In others words, Opera just let the EC know about the situation and the EC agreed that there was a problem and acted on it themselves.

Although Opera supports the EC decisions, they are not the only supporters.

I guess you could call Opera a measly tattletale though. ;)
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Opera was one of those who held the EU Commission's hand as they wrote, changed, re-wrote and mandated their settlement. So technically, no - Opera didn't sue. But to suggest they had only a passing role in the shape of the EU settlement with MSFT is disingenuous at best.
 
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