OpenAI Bots Smashed in Their First Clash Against Human Dota 2 Pros

DooKey

DooKey

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At The International, DOTA 2's annual championship, OpenAI bots gave it their all and still lost in the first bot versus human game. The match was fairly close, however, the human team took advantage of AI mistakes and closed the game out. They did this even though the AI has an advantage of being able to see the whole map while humans have to explore to find the lay of the land. The bots get two more chances to redeem themselves this week. Can they come back and prove AI superiority over humans?

OpenAI have been steadily working on beating Dota 2 for a while. Last year, it quietly crushed Dendi, a pro player at The International in a restricted game of one-v-one in a mirror match, where each side plays with the same selection of heroes.
 
Yea that's crap they can see the whole map and know everything you are doing. That's a huge advantage
 
Montu said:
They did this even though the AI has an advantage of being able to see the whole map while humans have to explore to find the lay of the land. The bots get two more chances to redeem themselves this week. Can they come back and prove AI superiority over humans?
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Not much of an experiment when the conditions are different for each group and one gets a gigantic advantage...
 
katanaD said:
so.. like many games.. the AI gets to cheat

LOL
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Reminds me of every CNC game I've ever played. This is just a high profile bot match.

Using a cheat of my own, I watched them build faster, more buildings, etc. It was at that moment I stopped trying to reproduce their build order.
 
Not too surprising. Dota 2 requires a lot of on your feet thinking and reactions, many of which aren't a black and white "this happens, so do this" kind of reaction. It is heavily dependent on a lot of factors, and you need to be able to take in all of those facotrs, make predictions on unknown factors, such as the skill build and item build of your enemy, and react accordingly. Just because an Invoker is ganking you doesn't mean you should run 100%. If your teammate can TP in to support you, and turn your 2v3 fight into a 3v3 fight, you could turn the gank around.

As impressive as OpenAI is (I really don't want to take away from how impressive this feat is), I don't think that, in a 5v5 dota game against professional teams, they'll ever be able to outright stomp humans. That's assuming the humans aren't trolling, like the last time they pit openAI against humans.
 
This is no different than training AI to recognizer patterns of the chess masters and the known counter measures.

Your only path to victory is to do something that confuses the @#$@# out of the AI that it hasn't been trained for.

Switching strategies might work if it isn't adaptive in nature.
 
ryno9100 said:
As impressive as OpenAI is (I really don't want to take away from how impressive this feat is), I don't think that, in a 5v5 dota game against professional teams, they'll ever be able to outright stomp humans. That's assuming the humans aren't trolling, like the last time they pit openAI against humans.
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I watched the match. The AI's had some great fights. But then they did a lot of questionable actions, like the DP ulting to farm creeps in the late game or for a solo support kill. And the random sentry ward drops. As the casters stated, in 5v5's, the AI often win the first game, but then lose the next two. In this match, Pain won both, even though they seemed to be playing stupid 25% of the time.
 
Eickst said:
Yea that's crap they can see the whole map and know everything you are doing. That's a huge advantage
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Which makes it no different than every other game in existence. Of course the AI can be challenging when they cheat. This "openAI" is not any more impressive than the average AI found in other games.

Come back at me when the AI doesn't cheat and can pose a challenge to human opponents.
 
theplaidfad said:
They learned in the first match. My prediction is the AI easily wins the second match.
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training vectors is not that easy. It take thousands of simulations to form solution vectors for positives and negative outcomes.
 
Montu said:
They did this even though the AI has an advantage of being able to see the whole map while humans have to explore to find the lay of the land.
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So this is rather misleading, and if you do the smallest amount of work and find where this assumption originated from you'll see it was pretty much misunderstood/misquoted.

From https://blog.openai.com/openai-five/
OpenAI Five is given access to the same information as humans, but instantly sees data like positions, healths, and item inventories that humans have to check manually.
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What they mean is that instead of having to look at their health, look at where they are, look at their items, which takes quite a bit of time of a human to do, the AI can process that information much more quickly. If anyone took the time to read the blog posts about Open AI Five you'd that that they've talked about how the AI learned to chase players even though they're out of their view range or hidden in bushes. But you know, it's much easier to jump on the idiot bandwagon.
 
gtrfvb said:
So this is rather misleading, and if you do the smallest amount of work and find where this assumption originated from you'll see it was pretty much misunderstood/misquoted.

From https://blog.openai.com/openai-five/


What they mean is that instead of having to look at their health, look at where they are, look at their items, which takes quite a bit of time of a human to do, the AI can process that information much more quickly. If anyone took the time to read the blog posts about Open AI Five you'd that that they've talked about how the AI learned to chase players even though they're out of their view range or hidden in bushes. But you know, it's much easier to jump on the idiot bandwagon.
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Seriously, was typing up a response to address this and other stupid that is going on in this thread. They cannot see through Fog of War.
 
It was fun to watch. The funny part about it was that the bots behave like a lot of hackers you run into laddering. People have marcos set up to instantly perform commands that take even the fast people a split second. The speed at which the computers operate on those aspects of the game was the best part to me.
 
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