One Bitcoin Now Worth More than One Ounce of Gold

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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Late yesterday Bitcoin's value actually surpassed that of an ounce of Gold and stayed there, rising even further today. Why is this important? It is still discussed that Bitcoin could actually replace gold as an alternative asset, although the likes of that happening any time soon are not very likely due to Bitcoin volatility and its usage for black market products and by Ransomware criminals. We would certainly like to see what some of our own HardForum miners have to say about this.


Both currencies have seen a solid start to 2017, but bitcoin's has been a bit better. It has gained about 35% so far this year after rallying 120% in 2016 and finishing as the top performing currency in each of the last two years. In recent weeks, bitcoin has managed to shrug off news that China's biggest exchanges were going to start charging clients a flat fee of 0.2% per transaction and that they were going to block withdrawals.
 
Bitcoin wont replace gold or anything else, its just another option.
 
USD is also used for black market products etc, far FAR more and for longer than bitcoin has. Anything has the potential to be used for less than legal exchanges.
 
lol...nothing can replace gold, everything changes value but gold, been this way for thousands of years, and will stay the same thousands more.
 
You know, I never considered how much ransomware would drive up the values. Pretty clever, actually.
 
gold wont change and neither will math. that's what bitcoin is.

i assure you, mathematics is firmly established.
 
The market cap of gold is about 7 trillion .... Bitcoin is only over 20 billion. But there are alot of reasons to be bullish... capital controls and financial meltdowns around the globe abound.... you can't carry alot of gold through an airport... i can carry bitcoin (on usb) or send any amount anywhere around the world and nothing will stop it.... put a price on that kind of freedom.... im not a financial advisor do your due diligence...caveat emptor, etc...

10 Reasons Bitcoin Price will Destroy All Time Highs in 2017
 
alamox said:
lol...nothing can replace gold, everything changes value but gold, been this way for thousands of years, and will stay the same thousands more.
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Gold has an unknown quantity of supply, but we do know that there is much more left to be mined in the earth, and there's also gold in space. This means that gold's supply can be reasonably expected to remain inflationary.

Bitcoin has a set supply - a maximum of 21 million bitcoin will ever exist.

It's true that gold's value in terms of purchasing power has remained constant for centuries. 1 ounce of gold now can buy a nice suit; 1000 years ago, 1 ounce of gold could buy a nice suit as well. The inflationary supply of gold has remained essentially on par with economic inflation. This means that it is a good place to park wealth, but that your purchasing power doesn't grow.

Once bitcoin's 21 million count has been reached (~150 years from now), the supply will no longer grow. Assuming that it is still used, and still has economic value at that point, the supply will no longer be inflating. It would be a great place to park wealth, because your purchasing power would continue to grow along with inflation. It also has massive advantages in terms of transportability and divisibility (A single bitcoin can be divided up into 1000000 individual units. Gold is able to be divided into smaller units as well, but it is clearly much messier to shave off a gold block)

TLDR Assuming that it continues to grow, bitcoin would be a better store of wealth than gold. Assuming, of course.
 
buzzbomb said:
Then define what "exists".
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Corporate entities that manufacture goods that are to be used on a daily basis. Physical products that exist to better mankind rather than virtually discovered using hot air and given a designation based on unknown factors, theories and conjecture.
 
buzzbomb said:
Then define what "exists".
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"All money is fantasy."

If someone gives me a rectangular piece of paper with a picture of Benjamin Franklin, I pretend it has worth because a government and market system says to pretend it has worth. It all works because the people, businesses, and governments with which I'll exchange that piece of paper also pretend it has worth.
 
you can't think of it that way. at the time they were easy to mine and those were worth a pizza. there are always going to be an infinite number of "if only I...." but they are pretty much a fantasy dead end
 
PhaseII said:
"All money is fantasy."

If someone gives me a rectangular piece of paper with a picture of Benjamin Franklin, I pretend it has worth because a government and market system says to pretend it has worth. It all works because the people, businesses, and governments with which I'll exchange that piece of paper also pretend it has worth.
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That argument has been defeated countless times. Every government backs their own currency with valuation of its economy. The bitcoin has no economy thus its physically and virtually worthless.
 
NickJames said:
That argument has been defeated countless times. Every government backs their own currency with valuation of its economy. The bitcoin has no economy thus its physically and virtually worthless.
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Lots of LEGAL online stores accept BTC as a form of payment so saying that it is virtually worthless is incorrect.
 
NickJames said:
Corporate entities that manufacture goods that are to be used on a daily basis. Physical products that exist to better mankind rather than virtually discovered using hot air and given a designation based on unknown factors, theories and conjecture.
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It's not unknown factors or theories or hot air that make bitcoin work. Bitcoin is founded on modern private/public key cryptography. The principles that track tokens, prevent double-spends, keep the network in sync - everything that makes bitcoin work - are the same that secure web communications or encrypt your smart phone. No weird voodoo involved.
NickJames said:
That argument has been defeated countless times. Every government backs their own currency with valuation of its economy. The bitcoin has no economy thus its physically and virtually worthless.
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Bitcoin has an economy. Individuals use it to settle debts. Businesses (Microsoft, Newegg, Overstock for example) accept it as a form of payment. It's not very widely used, but that doesn't make it nothing. And the fact that companies spend millions on infrastructure to mine it, and that individuals perform millions of dollars of transactions in a day just trading the bitcoin tokens, means that it is very literally not worthless.
 
bitcoin is used for deep web buys cause the infastructures aren't there for tracing it the way government can access credit cards and banking institutions that it sells insurance to. As long as it has a value and is established into a contract between 2 individuals, it's a legitimate commodity. Drugs aside, There has been a need and demand for this type of a currency that defies borders ever since the advent of the internet. As mentioned above most international prices are still converted into the dollar, ever since the Marshall Plan (United States paying/investing to rebuild the ashes of Europe) following World War 2, but that is a history lesson for another topic. There is yet to be another currency with as much acceptance or notoriety as BTC, and with it's unique mechanisms for encryption and survival, it's not going away anytime soon.

And to think i was going to mine when it was 26$ a BTC but people doing it told me i would only break even. At least they got out of it around the same time too so they can't laugh at me now.
 
TrailRunner said:
Gold has an unknown quantity of supply, but we do know that there is much more left to be mined in the earth, and there's also gold in space. This means that gold's supply can be reasonably expected to remain inflationary.

Bitcoin has a set supply - a maximum of 21 million bitcoin will ever exist.

It's true that gold's value in terms of purchasing power has remained constant for centuries. 1 ounce of gold now can buy a nice suit; 1000 years ago, 1 ounce of gold could buy a nice suit as well. The inflationary supply of gold has remained essentially on par with economic inflation. This means that it is a good place to park wealth, but that your purchasing power doesn't grow.

Once bitcoin's 21 million count has been reached (~150 years from now), the supply will no longer grow. Assuming that it is still used, and still has economic value at that point, the supply will no longer be inflating. It would be a great place to park wealth, because your purchasing power would continue to grow along with inflation. It also has massive advantages in terms of transportability and divisibility (A single bitcoin can be divided up into 1000000 individual units. Gold is able to be divided into smaller units as well, but it is clearly much messier to shave off a gold block)

TLDR Assuming that it continues to grow, bitcoin would be a better store of wealth than gold. Assuming, of course.
Click to expand...

Except gold is actually used for stuff and bitcoin is simply a bit of digital information with no real value behind it. It doesn't matter if there's a limit of bitcoin, it's still a purely digital thing. Another type of cryptocurrency can easily replace it, hence the reason its value flactuates so much. It works nicely for black market and illicit trade but I wonder how things will change once it becomes regulated like a real currency. Purchasing power does grow with gold because it's a stable asses and investment. There is less of is being produced and with more electronics, more gold is being used so I don't think your statement is fully correct with regards to supply of gold not getting smaller. 50 years from now gold is guaranteed to be around (if we're still around then), which can't be said about bitcoin.
 
zkostik said:
50 years from now gold is guaranteed to be around (if we're still around then), which can't be said about bitcoin.
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Technically if we were to transmit the information via optical or radio satellitea, Bitcoin and it's information could be bouncing around the cosmos exponentially longer than humankind or the gold we have on our earth planet.
 
NickJames said:
That argument has been defeated countless times. Every government backs their own currency with valuation of its economy. The bitcoin has no economy thus its physically and virtually worthless.
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The valuation of any currency-based economy is still founded upon the perception of value rather than something tangible. Look at wild stock price fluctuations based simply on innuendo and tell me brokers and investors aren't pretending something isn't losing or gaining value.
 
zkostik said:
Except gold is actually used for stuff and bitcoin is simply a bit of digital information with no real value behind it. It doesn't matter if there's a limit of bitcoin, it's still a purely digital thing. Another type of cryptocurrency can easily replace it, hence the reason its value flactuates so much. It works nicely for black market and illicit trade but I wonder how things will change once it becomes regulated like a real currency. Purchasing power does grow with gold because it's a stable asses and investment. There is less of is being produced and with more electronics, more gold is being used so I don't think your statement is fully correct with regards to supply of gold not getting smaller. 50 years from now gold is guaranteed to be around (if we're still around then), which can't be said about bitcoin.
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You have a point, but there's something to be said for being the first standard. It's true that 50 years from now, bitcoin's future is iffier, however I would argue that if it's not around, no cryptocurrency is either. Also, if we're looking ahead 50 years, anything can happen. The dollar has just as much a chance of not retaining its value over that period of time, especially with how rock solid our government is being run these days.
 
NickJames said:
That argument has been defeated countless times. Every government backs their own currency with valuation of its economy. The bitcoin has no economy thus its physically and virtually worthless.
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No, no they do not.

The USD you see as physical, however you can get physical bitcoin as well if you like, neither have any value other than what it is printed/made from, USD use to be gold/silver backed, but that is no longer the case and is fully a Fiat currency. That being it is only worth its supply and demand, that supply and demand can change while the economy of that given region can go up or down. The main reason for the relation of the two is that governments make it illegal to use other forms of money as tender. As such, bitcoins value is worth it's own supply and demand, the USD has been declining on value for a LONG time now, it is not set in stone, and anything can be used a currency, because you don't think it has value means nothing to those who do, lots of businesses have also started accepting it, as that grows so will it's demand and because of limited supply, its value will go up so long as that remains the case.

If you don't like, or want bitcoin, DON'T USE IT. However, crapping on it because to you it has no value is pointless, it is very clear it currently does indeed have a value, a very high and climbing value at that. One of the big appeals outside of other exchange factors are that the volume is capped at a given number, past that no more can be made, unlike USD or other fiat money, which can and is effected by inflation, in the long run it has the ability to be more stable than USD, because of this as well as not being linked to a single countries supply/demand, but rather global. If that happens and it becomes accepted is another thing, governments do not want this to happen as it removes printing power from them and requires them to be fiscally accountable to budgets and taxes.
 
I had mined and bought like a total of 5 bitcoin back when it was like 15 bucks a coin.... then i never went back to it and I still think I have parts of my wallet somewhere on a hdd backup but it's all old clients and crap I cant' get to work right. I really wish there was a way to recover that, as a few grand could really come in handy right now
 
Vaulter98c said:
I had mined and bought like a total of 5 bitcoin back when it was like 15 bucks a coin.... then i never went back to it and I still think I have parts of my wallet somewhere on a hdd backup but it's all old clients and crap I cant' get to work right. I really wish there was a way to recover that, as a few grand could really come in handy right now
Click to expand...

You are talking close to 6 grand, I would be troubleshooting the fuck out of that to find how to recover the wallet.
 
NickJames said:
That argument has been defeated countless times. Every government backs their own currency with valuation of its economy. The bitcoin has no economy thus its physically and virtually worthless.
Click to expand...

Bitcoin enjoys the entire earth's economy. The man-made borders you view as legitimacy markers are market-limiting barriers to entry that bitcoin enjoys skirting, which adds to it's utility.

If bitcoin is worthless, I guess you wouldnt trade places with this guy, if given the opportunity.
 
Retronym said:
Bitcoin enjoys the entire earth's economy. The man-made borders you view as legitimacy markers are market-limiting barriers to entry that bitcoin enjoys skirting, which adds to it's utility.

If bitcoin is worthless, I guess you wouldnt trade places with this guy, if given the opportunity.
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Bitcoin has less value than tulips in my opinion. Once the true value is realized we'll see who's laughing.
 
PhaseII said:
The valuation of any currency-based economy is still founded upon the perception of value rather than something tangible. Look at wild stock price fluctuations based simply on innuendo and tell me brokers and investors aren't pretending something isn't losing or gaining value.
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Yeah, on something that exists. I am not into speculation trading and I base my trades on existing physical goods and services like a regular economy does.
 
NickJames said:
Bitcoin has less value than tulips in my opinion. Once the true value is realized we'll see who's laughing.
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There is no such thing as true value. Tell me anything that has a "true value" and what that value is.
 
NickJames said:
Bitcoin has less value than tulips in my opinion. Once the true value is realized we'll see who's laughing.
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You don't seem to have a concept of currency at all.

You do understand that is the case with USD, Euros etc etc right? Any Fiat currency is subject to this. Everything changes value based on supply and demand, that supply and demand can and will change even just based on location, you seem to think USD has a static value, which it does not, and changes (downward) all the time.
 
It's a form of exchange one from of currency into an another. I don't see it as nothing more than that.
If Chuck E Cheese tokens can pay my mortgage then send me a bag of them.
 
NickJames said:
Bitcoin has less value than tulips in my opinion. Once the true value is realized we'll see who's laughing.
Click to expand...

You claim to place importance on tangible things, yet you prefer to imagine that people can't currently enjoy exchanging bitcoin for goods/services/money.

Do you see the problem?
 
Bitcoin certainly has value, but not the same way that gold has value. Gold has intrinsic value. Does this matter in the long run? Who knows.
 
celeron300 said:
The market cap of gold is about 7 trillion .... Bitcoin is only over 20 billion. But there are alot of reasons to be bullish... capital controls and financial meltdowns around the globe abound.... you can't carry alot of gold through an airport... i can carry bitcoin (on usb) or send any amount anywhere around the world and nothing will stop it.... put a price on that kind of freedom.... im not a financial advisor do your due diligence...caveat emptor, etc...

10 Reasons Bitcoin Price will Destroy All Time Highs in 2017
Click to expand...

It's also backed by literally nothing. At least with fiat currency, I know people need it to pay their taxes, so there will always be demand. Bitcoin is valued on speculation, backed by nothing, and no one needs to accept it as legal tender in any transaction. I'd rather put my money in blue chip stocks and get paid by companies with actual earnings rather than speculate that I may or may not make wealth on people panicking in countries with rampant government corruption.
 
PhaseII said:
"All money is fantasy."

If someone gives me a rectangular piece of paper with a picture of Benjamin Franklin, I pretend it has worth because a government and market system says to pretend it has worth. It all works because the people, businesses, and governments with which I'll exchange that piece of paper also pretend it has worth.
Click to expand...

It's worth a lot to you when the government calls you at tax time and says to send it their way in order to avoid going to jail. They're not calling you asking for Bitcoins. Fiat currency, therefore, has intrinsic value.
 
anyone wanna buy some tulip bulbs? Just joking..


But honestly a huge portion of the demand is Chinese people desperately trying to shield their wealth, before this goes back to a normal level I really think this goes parabolic just like every frenzy. We humans are very predictable in this way.

Also to add to the conversation.. I think anything has value as long as someone is willing to pay you for it. Fiat or otherwise. Think of gold, something that has been used since the beginning of civilization. It doesnt have any real uses. Its shiny and sits. You cant eat it. Its too soft to build anything with it but ppl have fought wars over it.
 
BlueFireIce said:
You are talking close to 6 grand, I would be troubleshooting the fuck out of that to find how to recover the wallet.
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I tried a lot back when it hit like 300-400 a coin, I don't remember what all I did but I spent like a whole day on it on google and just couldn't get the damn thing to work right
I may put some more time back into it this weekend but I feel like whatever happened was pretty bad that I didn't get it working the first time

It sucks tho because when I think back to when I used to mine, If i would have just taken all of that money for GPU's and outright bought coins instead, I'd be sitting on about half a million worth of coin, give or take. Man would that be nice lol
 
gold will remain the best option especially if one considers its use if an economic collapse scenario ever comes to pass
 
Something many in the united states forget is that we have a pretty good country.

If you think you don't need bitcoin to get by, because you have a good currency, you are correct.

But tell that to people in Venezuela.
 
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