I do a little bit of web surfing on it but mostly gaming.
On another note, Panasonic and Samsung recently said they are jumping back into the world of OLED. Look's like OLED is the future.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
OLED 4K TV with 4:4:4 HDMI 2.0 spotted, what about burn-in?
- Thread starter Iserlohn
- Start date
I do a little bit of web surfing on it but mostly gaming.
On another note, Panasonic and Samsung recently said they are jumping back into the world of OLED. Look's like OLED is the future.
they milked us with LCD's for a very freaking long time, something tells me OLED was always there, they just wanted to make the most profit they could with LCD's.
it appears they hit a wall in sales, because almost everyone owns LCD TV today.
so now they throwing us OLED, I wonder how long they are going to milk us what that.
it appears they hit a wall in sales, because almost everyone owns LCD TV today.
so now they throwing us OLED, I wonder how long they are going to milk us what that.
The only reason we're finally getting OLED is because of LG. They took on a massive risk and it has finally paid off. All other manufactures were fine with continuing making fat margins on LCD.
I would guess, Samsung is only returning to OLED because they'll get left behind otherwise, and don't want to end up buying panels from LG in the future.
Yes, I'm very grateful that LG stuck their neck out with OLED and it paid off. Really sick of LCD. Samsung's going to play catch up for quite a few years.
You park LG's OLED next to Samsung's best JS9500 and you can clearly see OLED whoops it.
You park LG's OLED next to Samsung's best JS9500 and you can clearly see OLED whoops it.
OLED pixels should be driven using discrete levels (true 10-bit) so temporal dithering shouldn't be an issue.
Plasmas, like DLPs, could only switch pixels on/off so they had to use a whole lot of temporal dithering to create shades. (think of it like "1-bit+FRC" in LCD terms)
The issue with the 1080p OLEDs in particular, is that LG are using white OLED materials with color filters and a non-standard RGBW pixel structure. (white being unfiltered)
1080p at 55" is quite low resolution already, but the pixel structure of LG's OLED panels is very coarse with big gaps between each pixel. (screen door effect)
At 4K I imagine that this would be far less problematic - though I refuse to buy any display which is not using a standard RGB subpixel layout.
The bigger problem with LG's OLEDs is the high latency, forced image processing such as noise reduction which cannot be disabled, generally low quality image processing, and quite an aggressive ABL circuit. (though not as bad as plasma)
Quality control is bad, with dead pixels and severe uniformity problems being very common.
Motion blur is a big problem too. Sure, the OLED pixels are fast, but it's a flicker-free 60Hz display so you get 16.67ms of persistence-based motion blur just like any flicker-free LCD.
I'm probably going to wait for Samsung to get back on the market before buying an OLED panel, or perhaps buying one of Sony's PVMs.
My mistake the 9600 doesn't support official HDR on 4k BR while the 9200 does, for less money.
LG bought W-OLED (White OLED) for 100 million from Kodak a few years ago and since WOLED is the only type of OLED that is financially viable at large screen sizes they pretty much have a monopoly on the tech. Samsung has RGB OLED which is technically superior but yields are awful at large screen sizes and won't be realistic for a long time, if ever. I bet Samsung either reengineers their own version of WOLED or licenses LGs tech.
Here is a great subpixel analysis
RGBW-OLED compared to RGB LCD and these horrible new "pseudo UHD" RGBW-LCD panels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfIn5O-4hJU
RGBW-OLED compared to RGB LCD and these horrible new "pseudo UHD" RGBW-LCD panels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfIn5O-4hJU
Last edited:
I personally don't know why anyone would want a flat version of a tech that is so easy to curve for personal computer use but that's just me.
I know LG isn't known for low input lag unfortunately. No reason that once you put their display in PC mode that should bypass most electronics and the input lag shouldn't remain at ~50ms.
Some very good points. I would never get a 1080p anything for computer use, especially not at these larger sizes. I haven't really noticed any screen door affect on 55" 4K OLED, the pixels are pretty small.
This is the first I am hearing about always on noise reduction, but that could make sense and unfortunate. I've read that a simple firmware upgrade could knock down that ~50ms input lag quite a bit. As for quality control, I haven't seen it on my set. Zero dead pixels and uniformity is pretty great.
As for eye tracking motion blur, correct any sample-and-hold display will have that unless run at extremely high Hz. Since HDMI 2.0 will be the preferred connection on TV for many years to come, 4K 60 Hz limit isn't going anywhere unfortunately. Now Panasonic has used DP 1.2 on their 4K TV's in the past. If they did come out with a 4K OLED in the future that say had DP 1.3, 120 Hz OLED could be a possibility and would be the screen to have.
With the EG9600 simply needed a firmware update for it, it is rather a moot point. Unless you mean that even though the EG9600 has the hardware, LG won't release the firmware update to 2.0a? As for money, not sure as it's not for sale anywhere and the only info comes from it being sold in other countries. Is the 9200 a US destined TV?
Correct, most "gave up" on OLED because of problems with RGB OLED. I think they will all use W-OLED going forward.
As long as panels of equal quality are available in both flat and curved options, I don't really object to it. Personally I prefer a flat display.I personally don't know why anyone would want a flat version of a tech that is so easy to curve for personal computer use but that's just me.
Well I don't know about that model specifically, but it's been a problem with basically all of LG's TVs for years.
The reviewer David Mackenzie is very thorough about testing this sort of thing and has found it on all of LG's OLEDs that he has evaluated. Many other "reviewers" seem to be in denial (not surprisingly, those are also people that have bought one for themselves...) or simply have not noticed it.
Glad to hear you got a good one. For how few are actually being produced, a disappointingly large number of them have serious problems.
Yes, with flicker-free displays the only solution is increasing the framerate+refresh rate.
Sony's OLED monitors halve the persistence at 60Hz by scanning the display when they are not in their flicker-free mode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTfvwOGu4EI
Samsung's OLED TV also offered this feature.
I'm not sure why interpolation is the only option with LG.
I would hope that future OLEDs are global displays rather than rolling displays, and allow you to adjust the persistence as we can do with LCDs that have strobed/scanned backlights.
Hopefully VR will push manufacturers in that direction. Both the Oculus CV1 and HTC Vive are using strobed globally-updated OLED displays.
Don't get me wrong, these LG screens are still very nice displays and can do some things far better than LCD, I just don't think the tech is quite ready yet, and I'd prefer to wait until Samsung or someone else enters the market.
The 55EC9300, while being a 2014 model, is also capable of 4:4:4 60 Hz after designating an input PC.
I've had this model since March and couldn't be more pleased coming from my Sony 34XBR960 220 lb CRT dinosaur. Black levels are the best I've seen outside of CRT including various Panny plasmas I've owned over the years. Contrast is stupid good. 1080p looks insane.
I game on it sometimes over the weekends but only PC gaming. DOTA2, TF2, Bioshock, etc. Sure it's no 144 GSYNC but I have zero complaints or issues with lag while playing. Granted I'm not competing in any CS:GO tourneys.
I will be upgrading to their 65" or 77" 4K model in about a year and will move the 9300 to the bedroom.
No, LG has stated clearly that the 9600 can't do HDR on blu-ray (Even with a firmware update) but it can do HDR off the internet. I'm trying to find the details in AVS.
Yes the 9200 is going to be available in NA, in the next few weeks no less.
I'd take links to both of those if you have them. Although it really doesn't matter to me as mine is just for computer/game use so HDR is irrelevant.
MistaSparkul
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2012
- Messages
- 3,479
Damn looks like that 9200 is only going to be available in 55 inch size and still cost near 4 grand. come on LG give me a 40 inch flat 4k OLED with reasonable input lag for 2 grand, pretty please?
Hrmm, interested in the new OLED HDR set coming out from LG, but
1) Kinda wish it was curved
and
2) Not much content to take advantage of HDR yet, unlike 4K where you can at least make up for that by using the display on a PC
Unless HDR becomes a feature for cheap TVs, I have a feeling this is just the next 3D. Same goes for 4K Blurays unless they're less DRM-infused and overpriced than regular Blurays are...
EDIT: And I forgot the most important
3) Would instabuy this if it were UHD 21:9 aspect ratio, but of course still 16:9 boringness -_-
1) Kinda wish it was curved
and
2) Not much content to take advantage of HDR yet, unlike 4K where you can at least make up for that by using the display on a PC
Unless HDR becomes a feature for cheap TVs, I have a feeling this is just the next 3D. Same goes for 4K Blurays unless they're less DRM-infused and overpriced than regular Blurays are...
EDIT: And I forgot the most important
3) Would instabuy this if it were UHD 21:9 aspect ratio, but of course still 16:9 boringness -_-
Last edited:
The forthcoming EG9200 is curved and supports HDR, supposed to be cheaper than the EG9600 too.
Agreed on your second point though... budget TVs will have to get HDR if there is any hope for it becoming standard in content.
Maybe some of the lesser Korean brands that get imported via eBay will buy some oled panels off LG and make us some displayport models with low input latency and image processing that can be bypassed. One can dream can't he ;-). It's going to be interesting to see that Panasonic do with the oled they are buying from LG. Though I probably won't join the bandwagon till LG have ramped up manufacturing a bit more lowering the cost of entry for cheapskates like me.
Each to their own with flat and curved as well, though I do see the appeal of curved for personal use.
Each to their own with flat and curved as well, though I do see the appeal of curved for personal use.
Last edited:
OLED can theoretically be made flexible, this would once and for all end the flat vs. curved debates
LG had a flagship TV that could already do that - "A press of a button moves the screen from a huge curved television into a flat screen."
Comixbooks
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2008
- Messages
- 22,011
I hope oled takes LCD out of the picture for PC monitors
Last edited:
So I did a big comparison between the 3x Predator versus the OLED. I think these Predators have the most IPS glow I've ever seen on a monitor:
I ran into issue getting everything working properly. One of my main flight sim's I had to use windowed mode, so that dropped me out of SLI and single card performance at 11 mil pixel's wasn't that good. Pretty much defeated the purpose. G-Sync also doesn't work as well in windowed mode from what I've encountered, at least multi-monitor.
Then in most games, like Witcher 3, Crysis 3, hell just about everything I had to turn down the graphics settings pretty low even with two Titan-X's at 1550 MHz in order to keep the FPS over 100 and high enough to make the setup worth it.
Then that damn IPS glow! So strong on these displays it was giving me a literal headache. I play a lot of dark games and space games, IPS isn't suited for that. IPS looks fine on very bright and colorful images.
Then of course the bezels and I forgot about the angled "warp" feeling you get when the angled panels come together at that crease really hurts immersion once you see a homogeneous screen like the OLED that is perfect and uninterrupted.
Not only that, with the 4K @ 60 Hz with two Titan-X's maxed out I can pretty much run all my games and sims quality maxed out. So the quality of the game maxed out plus the quality of the OLED image... With the 3x setup the quality of the game image is worse due to turned down settings and combined with the reduced quality of the display image and less immersion. If I were to go the 3x portrait route I would need to get 3-4 way SLI, but then it's a catch 22 with less returns, more input lag and more problems etc.
Basically the OLED has completely spoiled me.
G-Sync is fine on the 3x setup as you will always be pinging off your FPS limit trying to get as many frames as possible. With the 4K 60 Hz display you can pretty much cap everything else and turn SLI "smooth" V-Sync on, negating the need for G-Sync. As for ULMB, it's most beneficial when you do smooth/slow scrolling. In those scenarios you do see the benefit. For my typical play style though with my trackball I am moving and snapping the display so fast that It's blurred with or without ULMB.
Not to mention with the single 4K display in SLI, every single game worked right off the bat with zero issues.
It comes down to having to pretty much give up everything in image quality; display wise and game wise and immersion in order to gain speed, the same conundrum. But right now with 4K curved OLED the cards are so incredibly stacked against simply getting speed. For myself, the 55" curved 4K OLED is the new king of PC gaming.
I ran into issue getting everything working properly. One of my main flight sim's I had to use windowed mode, so that dropped me out of SLI and single card performance at 11 mil pixel's wasn't that good. Pretty much defeated the purpose. G-Sync also doesn't work as well in windowed mode from what I've encountered, at least multi-monitor.
Then in most games, like Witcher 3, Crysis 3, hell just about everything I had to turn down the graphics settings pretty low even with two Titan-X's at 1550 MHz in order to keep the FPS over 100 and high enough to make the setup worth it.
Then that damn IPS glow! So strong on these displays it was giving me a literal headache. I play a lot of dark games and space games, IPS isn't suited for that. IPS looks fine on very bright and colorful images.
Then of course the bezels and I forgot about the angled "warp" feeling you get when the angled panels come together at that crease really hurts immersion once you see a homogeneous screen like the OLED that is perfect and uninterrupted.
Not only that, with the 4K @ 60 Hz with two Titan-X's maxed out I can pretty much run all my games and sims quality maxed out. So the quality of the game maxed out plus the quality of the OLED image... With the 3x setup the quality of the game image is worse due to turned down settings and combined with the reduced quality of the display image and less immersion. If I were to go the 3x portrait route I would need to get 3-4 way SLI, but then it's a catch 22 with less returns, more input lag and more problems etc.
Basically the OLED has completely spoiled me.
G-Sync is fine on the 3x setup as you will always be pinging off your FPS limit trying to get as many frames as possible. With the 4K 60 Hz display you can pretty much cap everything else and turn SLI "smooth" V-Sync on, negating the need for G-Sync. As for ULMB, it's most beneficial when you do smooth/slow scrolling. In those scenarios you do see the benefit. For my typical play style though with my trackball I am moving and snapping the display so fast that It's blurred with or without ULMB.
Not to mention with the single 4K display in SLI, every single game worked right off the bat with zero issues.
It comes down to having to pretty much give up everything in image quality; display wise and game wise and immersion in order to gain speed, the same conundrum. But right now with 4K curved OLED the cards are so incredibly stacked against simply getting speed. For myself, the 55" curved 4K OLED is the new king of PC gaming.
MistaSparkul
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2012
- Messages
- 3,479
Seriously. Playing MGS5 I have to do all my missions and side ops during the day time, night time the bottom right glow on my Acer gets annoying.
Looks like Adorama is having a big sale on the 4k OLEDs,
65" EF9500 / EG9600 - $5K http://www.adorama.com/LOT65EG9600D.html
55" - $3K http://www.adorama.com/LOT55EG9600D.html
Hell, the price on the 55" is only $500 more than a JS9000, tempting...
65" EF9500 / EG9600 - $5K http://www.adorama.com/LOT65EG9600D.html
55" - $3K http://www.adorama.com/LOT55EG9600D.html
Hell, the price on the 55" is only $500 more than a JS9000, tempting...
Agreed. It's a shame they don't put the appropriate polarizer on these less expensive gaming monitors to get rid of IPS glow. I don't think I'll ever own an IPS again. Their dark performance isn't satisfactory in the least.
You have to watch those web sites. That is for the "D" version whatever that is. Could be some poorer stock or suppose to be for another country. The actual U.S. full spec model:
http://www.adorama.com/LOT55EG9600....V3uIdswK1Ef0Ac7iivrQ_MXNyzTP96uxPQBoCGdTw_wcB
Ya, I noticed that. Could just be because it's a bundle though (as it comes w/ that LG Bluetooth speaker).
Adorama is legit - LG authorized, I've ordered from them before. Their return policy kind of sucks for sets bigger than 40" though. Basically you're stuck dealing with LG even for things like pixel issues.
Also, it's just a pre order for now, won't ship until October 4. There is talk over at AVS that this might be a retailer wide offer. I'll wait and see what happens, but that price is pretty tempting.
KazeoHin
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2011
- Messages
- 9,000
I have a bit of a question to the owners of these screens: First off: My wife recently got the new Samsung Edge+ phone, using an AMOLED screen: Its bright and colours are REALLY vibrant, and blacks are deep, but... I've noticed a HUGE Red-Blue shift at angles, the screen becomes very green when viewed at an angle. Is this something that current OLED large-screens exhibit? I would hope the new OLED technology wouldn't come with huge angle colour-shift, but that Edge+ really made me worry.
Ya, I know Adorma is legit. Seem's crazy though to toss in a free speaker and charge $1K less then the very TV that you have in stock? Could be an error also.If you can get a legit copy of this display for $3K that is a steal!
No color shift. OLED is known to have the best viewing angles of any tech out there really. I can read this text as I type in the middle of the screen putting my MARK I eyeball about 1" off the edge of the curve. It's pretty darn impressive.
KazeoHin
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2011
- Messages
- 9,000
Awesome. I'm thinking AMOLED must be the culprit here. I'm glad OLED is performing as expected. Maybe in 5 or so years when it gets cheap, I'll upgrade. For now, VA/IPS money is just about what I'm willing to spend.
"AMOLED" just means "OLED with a decent amount of pixels", so it's not that per se.
the thing is, cell phone screens often use a piece of "technology" called PenTile which cheats on pixels by having a really weird subpixel structure (not at all like LCD's RGB subpixels but a more customized one with less green subpixels) which results in the weird colour shifts that you noticed. not too bad for phones as it saves power and lets you get more pixels into a smaller space but not ideal for larger scale use obviously.
I really wish they'd make OLED TV's smaller than 55" though, I don't have that kind of space -_-
the thing is, cell phone screens often use a piece of "technology" called PenTile which cheats on pixels by having a really weird subpixel structure (not at all like LCD's RGB subpixels but a more customized one with less green subpixels) which results in the weird colour shifts that you noticed. not too bad for phones as it saves power and lets you get more pixels into a smaller space but not ideal for larger scale use obviously.
I really wish they'd make OLED TV's smaller than 55" though, I don't have that kind of space -_-
I just don't understand. How the fuck can OLED monitors have that much input lag? The whole point of OLED was supposed to be that they're much faster than LCDs.
The display manufacturing industry just fucking sucks. Everyone else is putting out SUPERIOR products. Intel, AMD, and Nvidia keep rapidly improving technology. Everything gets faster, cheaper, smaller, and uses less power.
Monitors STILL are inferior to CRTs. What the FUCK?
The display manufacturing industry just fucking sucks. Everyone else is putting out SUPERIOR products. Intel, AMD, and Nvidia keep rapidly improving technology. Everything gets faster, cheaper, smaller, and uses less power.
Monitors STILL are inferior to CRTs. What the FUCK?
Richard Jones
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2014
- Messages
- 385
Input lag (rather 'display lag' and pixel response time(s) are two different things.
Both count in the 'total lag' calculation, but the response plays a minor role in the final figure.
Anyway, the essential source of delay is not the panel technology, but a bad built-in scaler. For instance you could have the slowest VA panel ever teamed with a practically delay-free scaler, or the fastest TN ever teamed with a slow-ass scaler.
OLED with low lag could happen anytime, it's up to the manufacturers if they want to use shitty scalers or topkek (like Sony used to in 2013~2014).
Both count in the 'total lag' calculation, but the response plays a minor role in the final figure.
Anyway, the essential source of delay is not the panel technology, but a bad built-in scaler. For instance you could have the slowest VA panel ever teamed with a practically delay-free scaler, or the fastest TN ever teamed with a slow-ass scaler.
OLED with low lag could happen anytime, it's up to the manufacturers if they want to use shitty scalers or topkek (like Sony used to in 2013~2014).
The input lag isn't inherent to OLED, just LG's processing chain. I would imagine LG doesn't care about optimizing for input lag considering anyone buying these for use as a monitor are in the 0.01% right now.
Either they eventually fix it, or someone else will - they are starting to sell OLED panels to other manufactures like Panasonic.
I think I found out why though on OLED TV's. When you put it into "PC" mode, supposedly it disables all image and motion processing. You are left with ~49ms input lag. My threory is the anti-Image retention feature of OLED. The input signal needs to be "read" which has to be processed. The TV electronics have to determine if the image is static or not for IR prevention measures. I am starting to bare the input lag as the picture quality and immersion is ridicuous.
Solid black screen Acer X34ck vs OLED:
Solid black screen Acer X34ck vs OLED:
OLED TV Conclusions
The LG Flagship OLED TV performed extremely well throughout all of the lab tests and viewing tests. It is unquestionably the best performing TV that we have ever tested or watched… with absolutely stunning and beautiful picture quality across the board. In terms of picture quality the LG OLED TV is visually indistinguishable from perfect. Even in terms of the exacting and precise lab measurements it is close to ideal.
The LG OLED TV is far better than the best Plasma TVs in every display performance category, and even better than the $50,000 Sony Professional CRT Studio Monitors that up until recently were the golden standard for picture quality.
http://www.displaymate.com/TV_OLED_LCD_ShootOut_1.htm
The LG Flagship OLED TV performed extremely well throughout all of the lab tests and viewing tests. It is unquestionably the best performing TV that we have ever tested or watched… with absolutely stunning and beautiful picture quality across the board. In terms of picture quality the LG OLED TV is visually indistinguishable from perfect. Even in terms of the exacting and precise lab measurements it is close to ideal.
The LG OLED TV is far better than the best Plasma TVs in every display performance category, and even better than the $50,000 Sony Professional CRT Studio Monitors that up until recently were the golden standard for picture quality.
http://www.displaymate.com/TV_OLED_LCD_ShootOut_1.htm
Richard Jones
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2014
- Messages
- 385
^ lulz
LCD = obsolete.
LCD = obsolete.
That is basically the boat I have been in since buying my OLED (only 1080p even) a while back.
My comment from a previous thread seems relevant here - "It is amazing to me how the OLED will really just make any other screen look terrible in comparison. With that said, I find transitioning back to a TN or VA after using OLED much more tolerable than switching to something like an IPS where you have a ton of IPS glow. The poor and inconsistent contrast display of an IPS panel in darker scenes will drive you batty once you are used to the inky blacks of OLED."
what CRTs is he talking about and are there any professional reviews of them a la tftcentral/prad online somewhere? i'd really like to see them so i can gauge the gap between them and OLED.