OLED 22-24" this year....

perra

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...I don't think so..!!!!
After being disappointed on several LCD screens I have read a lot of what OLED screens should bring us.

- fast response time (0.1 - 0.01 ms)
- high contrast (1000000:1)
- very good viewingangels almost 180 degrees
- low power need

Well all this sound like a dream...and I belive it will be so for atleast a year...
 

limes

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Yeah, it probably won't happen for at least a few more years.

At least there are true 120Hz LCDs out now, though...
 

daveswantek

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Samsung has introduced LED TVs. I think this tech may have a better chance of replacing LCDs than OLED, because OLED suffers from Image Retention (IR) real bad worse than plasma ever did. Samsung's LED TVs are priced at about 1.5 x of there LCD TVs. As they ramp up production the price will drop to where LCD TVs are now.

The BIG question is will they bring this tech to computer displays and how wil it perform?

Dave
 

Dephcon

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The current Samsung LED TVs are crap. They just have LEDs around the edge of the screen and still suffer from backlight bleed. I'm not very impressed by the 7000 series
 

perra

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price of $100,000....probably haha

Yeah but in the long run it has been said that OLED is cheeper to produce than LCD...
...this could also be fact why we wont see OLED because panel makers have invested quite a bit of money in LCD tech.
 

JaguarSKX

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The current Samsung LED TVs are crap. They just have LEDs around the edge of the screen and still suffer from backlight bleed. I'm not very impressed by the 7000 series

I prefer the A950 series since it has localized dimming eventhough that isn't perfect either.
 

daveswantek

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The current Samsung LED TVs are crap. They just have LEDs around the edge of the screen and still suffer from backlight bleed. I'm not very impressed by the 7000 series

I have not seen one in person yet, so I reserve judgment until I do. The promo stuff looks real good, but it always does.

Dave
 

Bcc335

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Any word when we can actually expect one of these to hit the market? Seems like they been delayed quite a few times.
 

spacetrader

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sony has a small one out there.. its pretty amazing. i think well see it mainstream in 5 years, but no sooner. i really dont see any reason it won't replace lcd... its just a superior technology if/when they finally overcome the durability factor.
 

Ruahrc

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I think another significant hurdle yet to be achieved is that the organic phosphors burn out a lot faster than other display technologies, thus reducing the usable lifetime of the display. And the different colors burn out at different rates, so the overall color of the monitor will shift over time as the blue ones get dimmer and dimmer faster than the other colors.

Hopefully soon though! It looks like they are starting to be more common on smaller devices like cell phones and MP3 players. I have not yet seen a full-color OLED display but would like to, and hopefully soon we all will have easy access.

Ruahrc
 

Elledan

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Any word when we can actually expect one of these to hit the market? Seems like they been delayed quite a few times.

Despite the current state of the economy, Panasonic has confirmed that it will release an OLED TV within 2 years.

According to smarthouse.com.au Panasonic figures that they can do a better job than Sony and produce a Panasonic OLED TV with a 37″ screen and a lifespan of up to 50,000 hours.

These new Panasonic OLED TVs are to be built at the IPS Alpha factory and may be produced in a partnership with Toshiba.

According to Smarthouse, LG will be introducing a 15″ OLED TV before Christmas this year and a 32″ OLED TV by June next year.

“LG is set to steal Sony’s OLED advantage with Company insiders in Korea telling SmartHouse that the Korean Company will have a 15″ for sale by Xmas and a 32″ in mid 2010.”

This is in addition to LG producing 15″ OLED displays for a new Apple notebook this year.

Pricing is expected to start a 2-3x the price of an equivalent size LCD TV. Even so, it appears that LG will have a 32″ OLED TV out before Sony has anything in that range.

Via http://www.all-oled-tv-reviews.com/
 

nomu

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Samsung has introduced LED TVs. I think this tech may have a better chance of replacing LCDs than OLED, because OLED suffers from Image Retention (IR) real bad worse than plasma ever did. Samsung's LED TVs are priced at about 1.5 x of there LCD TVs. As they ramp up production the price will drop to where LCD TVs are now.

The BIG question is will they bring this tech to computer displays and how wil it perform?

Dave

Um, you know that those TVs are also LCDs right? I mean, you must not because otherwise your post doesn't make any sense, but it's kind of weird that you don't since every review and Samsung's own product pages say so.

Anyway, Samsung's edge-lit models were pretty much panned by CNET, so I've not got any hope for any picture quality improvements at all from LED backlights. The computer monitors that have been released so far that use them also confirm this. If OLED isn't coming, we have nothing to look forward to as SED looks to be about as likely as CRTs coming back from the dead.
 

daveswantek

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The current Samsung LED TVs are crap. They just have LEDs around the edge of the screen and still suffer from backlight bleed. I'm not very impressed by the 7000 series

I went over to the AVS Forums and checked into this further and I found that you are right. The bottom line is better black levels, but massive backlight bleed. Flashlights and clouding yuck. I don't understand why all of the vendors are making such a big deal about thinner displays at the expense of quality; no thanks.

Um, you know that those TVs are also LCDs right? I mean, you must not because otherwise your post doesn't make any sense, but it's kind of weird that you don't since every review and Samsung's own product pages say so.

Anyway, Samsung's edge-lit models were pretty much panned by CNET, so I've not got any hope for any picture quality improvements at all from LED backlights. The computer monitors that have been released so far that use them also confirm this. If OLED isn't coming, we have nothing to look forward to as SED looks to be about as likely as CRTs coming back from the dead.

Yah; I had only seen the promo stuff, then I did some reading and found exactly what you are saying is true, and the quality control is worse then ever.


Back on topic,

OLED will never make it on to desktops, because it has serious image retention (IR). It is inherent to the technology so do not count it any time soon.

Dave
 
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Elledan

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Are there some useful references on OLED image retention? I did some googling before, but came up pretty much empty. I'm not even sure whether it's closer to CRT (phosphor) or LCD (twisted crystal) kind of retention at this point, especially in terms of permanency.
 

-=WooDWorKeR420=-

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I will say this, I have seen a very small OLED tv in my local Sony Style store, and while i dont know all the specifics regarding response times, i must say the picture quality was the best i have ever seen. Honestly must have been at least 3x better than 1080p IMO, and the viewing angles were insane 180 degree sounds right. Power consumption i would guess would be low, being LED technology.

But all this does come at a price, when I saw the tv it was a small portable DVD player size +- 10" and it cost $2900.00 CDN.

They should me mainstream by 2012, at least i think i read that somewhere.
 

nomu

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Are there some useful references on OLED image retention? I did some googling before, but came up pretty much empty. I'm not even sure whether it's closer to CRT (phosphor) or LCD (twisted crystal) kind of retention at this point, especially in terms of permanency.

Apparently the blue element burns out twice as fast as the other elements. If they can't implement some sort of wear leveling that will make it far worse than early plasmas, as there would be no way at all to use the monitor while avoiding color distortion and retention in the not-very-long term. Even if the picture was always moving, simply displaying any picture that activates the blue elements degrades them (and of course a stationary image would do worse).
 

perra

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Apparently the blue element burns out twice as fast as the other elements. If they can't implement some sort of wear leveling that will make it far worse than early plasmas, as there would be no way at all to use the monitor while avoiding color distortion and retention in the not-very-long term. Even if the picture was always moving, simply displaying any picture that activates the blue elements degrades them (and of course a stationary image would do worse).

I belive that I have seen 17000h and 30000h lifetime for the small SONY OLED TV...that would be enough for me since I don't use the screen 8h a day.
 

nomu

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I belive that I have seen 17000h and 30000h lifetime for the small SONY OLED TV...that would be enough for me since I don't use the screen 8h a day.

I don't think the lifetime given is how long the screen produces accurate color, but how long the actual elements put out a certain amount of light. Unless the red/green subpixels burn out just as fast as the blue ones, you're going to have to keep calibrating it over the lifespan of the unit, and will probably end up shortening the life of it because you'll be driving the blue ones harder and harder as time goes on. If you're using it as a TV, you'll have even less fun with that.

As a TV, you'd probably dodge image retention issues, but as a monitor that would be the number one problem. I'm sure they'll iron out most problems before they start selling these, but unless they are well under $1k, I'm avoiding the first gen like ebola.
 

washburn

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OLED Image retention (IR) problems? thats the first time I heard about OLED

the only problem OLED has ever had was the lifespan of blue diode..
 

Elledan

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OLED Image retention (IR) problems? thats the first time I heard about OLED

the only problem OLED has ever had was the lifespan of blue diode..

http://www.all-oled-tv-reviews.com/oled-tv-image-retention/

Basically it sounds similar to what plasma TVs have to deal with. Shouldn't be an issue with TVs, would require improvement to make it work for computer displays. I'll do some more googling to figure out the technical reason(s) for this IR. It may have to do with the organic components of OLED.

At this point the lifespan of the blue subpixels isn't an issue anymore, as it lasts longer than an LCD's backlight at this point. Don't hear many people complain about that.
 

shurcooL

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I will say this, I have seen a very small OLED tv in my local Sony Style store, and while i dont know all the specifics regarding response times, i must say the picture quality was the best i have ever seen. Honestly must have been at least 3x better than 1080p IMO, and the viewing angles were insane 180 degree sounds right. Power consumption i would guess would be low, being LED technology.
I've seen the small Sony OLED TV in their store also, and I was really surprised by this... It was very noticeably flickering. I'm talking like a 60 Hz CRT-like flicker. I'm really not sure why that was the case, perhaps it was malfunctioning?

I can't comment much on the picture quality/viewing angles because I wasn't paying attention. It wasn't bad I guess.

Edit: Another thing I noticed is that it was extremely thin. Like 2 millimeters or so. It was only that thin around the edges, with a thicker (1 cm~) part in the middle.
 

Venek

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I have no doubt that OLED displays will be the dominant form of viewing technology for decades, much like the CRT ruled until lately. What we're waiting for, really, is a breakthrough in manufacturing. Right now, OLED ain't easy to make, hence the very high prices. Eventually, someone will find a way to mass produce it relatively cheaply so that not only it becomes available to the masses, but it's affordable too (Universal Display Corp., maybe?)

I, for one, am salivating at the prospect of an OLED display or even HDTV. Think of it, OLED will have the best contrast ever seen, more colors than ever before, 180 degrees viewing angles, and thin as a credit card! Remember the movie Total Recall where an entire wall was a TV? That can actually happen. Oh, and the U.S. Dept. of Energy is putting in millions in OLED R&D, why? It uses far less energy than current light sources and displays, therefore easing the burden on our power grids by a very large factor!
 

RadXge

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These will be expensive.

Yep, they will be!
OLED is based on a more elegant technology than LCD (no backlight) and should become less expensive to built over time.
 

Elledan

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New printing method for OLED displays:
Seiko Epson Corp said it has established an inkjet technology that enables the uniform deposition of organic material in the production of large-screen organic light-emitting diode (OLED) TVs. The technology is said to represent a major step toward the realization of 37-inch and larger full-HD OLED TVs by resolving the uneven layering that had previously been an issue with the inkjet method.

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20090526/170748/
 

j3ff86

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As far as browsing to Amazon or Newegg and adding a 24" OLED monitor to your cart, I'd say that is at least a year away, most likely two. For now you can get a 3.3" OLED in a Cowon S9 ($170-$285 depending on capacity) and this fall in the Zune HD.
 
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Snowdog

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As far as browsing to Amazon or Newegg and adding a 24" OLED monitor to your cart, I'd say that is at least a year away, most likely two. For now you can get a 3.3" OLED in a Cowon S9 ($170-$285 depending on capacity) and this fall in the Zune HD.


A year or two for a TV.

A computer monitor, 3 or 4 years.

Image retention will be a big problem for computer monitors.
 
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http://www.all-oled-tv-reviews.com/oled-tv-image-retention/

Basically it sounds similar to what plasma TVs have to deal with. Shouldn't be an issue with TVs, would require improvement to make it work for computer displays. I'll do some more googling to figure out the technical reason(s) for this IR. It may have to do with the organic components of OLED.

At this point the lifespan of the blue subpixels isn't an issue anymore, as it lasts longer than an LCD's backlight at this point. Don't hear many people complain about that.

A year or two for a TV.

A computer monitor, 3 or 4 years.

Image retention will be a big problem for computer monitors.
How about providing a real source about image retention in OLED technology? Because it said so in a Sony manual doesn't make it necessarily true, they could being cautious on a technology they haven't had long term testing with. Almost all google searches reference those two sentences from the manual as well.
 

Snowdog

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Common sense and a little technical knowledge make it obvious. If the emitters wear (degrade and lose brightness with usage) you face burn in issues. The faster they wear, the more burn in potential. And theres is nothing that wears like OLED.

The sony manual just backs up the obvious and they aren't being conservative. Display search tested the Sony XEL-1 and found it to be a fair bit worse than Sony claims.
http://www.goodcleantech.com/2008/05/is_sonys_oled_tv_too_good_to_b.php
the Sony XEL-1 OLED TV only has a 5,000 hour lifespan when displaying a plain white image, and 17,000 hours when displaying the usual video visuals. DisplaySearch tested the TV set on a 1,000 hour run and discovered that the color blue degraded by 12 percent, red by 7 percent, and green by 8 percent. The supposed 30,000 hour lifespan would mean 3.5 years of longevity if the OLED TV were left on 24/7. However, based on DisplaySearch's findings, the Sony XEL-1 OLED TV could last just 1.9 years before losing half its original brightness


The major weakness of OLED is that it burns out fast, faster than any other technology we have seen. The more you use the faster it will burn out. All emmitter cell technologies, wear with usage and all of them are susceptible to burn in (Plasma and CRT) and OLED is MUCH less robust than CRT or Plasma.

This will be by far worse display type for image retention. We are not talking something strange like some LCD IR modes, this is good old fashion BURN IN.

OLED will be fantastic for TV (as long as it isn't the same channel with a stupid logo in the corner) and movies (provided most of them aren't 2.39:1 with black bars).

Computer monitors remain problematic as this would be the most Burn in prone technology to ever show up on a desktop.
 
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RadXge

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Since the Sony XEL-1 is the fist commercial OLED TV it is not surprising to see issues like burn in.
Plasma TVs were also prone to burn in a few years ago but this is not an issue anymore.
I expect the second generation of OLED TV to improve upon the XEL-1 but will it be enough?
 

Snowdog

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Since the Sony XEL-1 is the fist commercial OLED TV it is not surprising to see issues like burn in.
Plasma TVs were also prone to burn in a few years ago but this is not an issue anymore.
I expect the second generation of OLED TV to improve upon the XEL-1 but will it be enough?

It still isnt' recommended to use a Plasma primarily as a computer monitor, in that case you would almost certainly burn in the menu bars, my computer icon etc...

I said OLED will probably be here for TVs in a year or two but computer monitors in maybe 4 years.
 

moomoofarm7

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I went over to the AVS Forums and checked into this further and I found that you are right. The bottom line is better black levels, but massive backlight bleed. Flashlights and clouding yuck. I don't understand why all of the vendors are making such a big deal about thinner displays at the expense of quality; no thanks.



Yah; I had only seen the promo stuff, then I did some reading and found exactly what you are saying is true, and the quality control is worse then ever.


Back on topic,

OLED will never make it on to desktops, because it has serious image retention (IR). It is inherent to the technology so do not count it any time soon.

Dave

You guys are right to an extent. If you read deeper into the AVS Forum (and other sources) you will find that with the UN(55/46)B6000 or 7000 the problems can be corrected with good settings, but are still very noticeable to some people. The UN(55/46)B8000 is a good deal better than the 6000 or 7000, as it is 240hz, which also requires a whole new video processor. Again with good settings, the 8000 can be significantly improved, making the flashlighting and backlight bleeding issues practically non-existent. It seems like the initial concerns with these Samsung edge-lit LEDs are due to awful factory settings.

Right now, the 8000 IS the LCD to get in my opinion, regardless of price range. I've talked with a definite respected audio/video/ht pro, (also my CCNA teacher), and he said the same thing, as do the co-owners of his HT company.
 

Snowdog

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LED back lights don't change fundamental imaging issues of LCD, unless you are setting them up for local dimming which the new Samsungs Don't. since they are edge lit.

The "better blacks" of the new Samsung sets are pretty much from yet more Dynamic Contrast, when the screen is more black, they turn the backlighting down more. LED backlighting give you more up/down range to do wider ranging dynamic contrast.

I saw claims of better blacks, but they were mostly from "forum sponsors" selling the new Samsungs. What you won't see these guys do is show a simple ANSI contrast measurement, because that would show nothing has really changed. You have to wait until they get into the hands of normal users who happen to have calibration equipment. I haven't checked if that has happened yet but expect about three zeros to disappear off the advertised contrast ratios.
 
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The 9000 series coming this Summer will be backlit LED.

I am still wondering if the newly released 32" 6000 edge-lit model would make a good PC monitor.
 
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Samsung has introduced LED TVs. I think this tech may have a better chance of replacing LCDs than OLED, because OLED suffers from Image Retention (IR) real bad worse than plasma ever did. Samsung's LED TVs are priced at about 1.5 x of there LCD TVs. As they ramp up production the price will drop to where LCD TVs are now.

The BIG question is will they bring this tech to computer displays and how wil it perform?

Dave

It won't be a problem when they hit production.
 
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