Ok, what server should I go to...

TechLarry

TechLarry

RIP [H] Brother - June 1, 2022
Joined
Aug 9, 2005
Messages
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For about the 4th time last night, my WHS V1 server came back up after a power failure in the middle of the night (UPS was depleted) and as usual my Drive Extender was a bloody mess. I've fixed all the errors that can be fixed.

I think it's time to move on. Knowing now what we do about Vail, and the unceremonious death of Drive Extender, I'm open to idea's.

I have access to pretty much any MS server product available.

I also have the Vail preview.

Is the Vail preview stable enough to use? Does it have the broke-dick version of Drive Extender that they say they have ceased production on?

I'm open to ideas. No Linux please :) I have enough server products to choose from :)

One thing I MUST keep is the automated backup of workstations, and the ability to do a bare-metal restore. That is the one feature of WHS/Vail that I just don't want to let go. It's saved my butt too many times.
 
BTW... It's a pretty stout server:

Intel E6700
2GB RAM
Six 1TB Drives
Intel Pro/1000 Card
etc...

I would not be apposed to trying a top-notch free NAS software setup on it if there is a really good one out there. Backup, streaming, etc...
 
Is this a common issue with WHSv1? I just setup my first at home to replace an openfiler box solely for the drive extender function.
 
Indeed. I don't care what server hardware you buy, cutting the power off to it will fuck it up.
 
dashpuppy said:
or replace it, it sounds under-powered.
Click to expand...

No, it's not underpowered. But a 3 hour outage was too much for it. I was asleep so I had no idea until I woke up to all the damned clocks blinking 12:00.

But really, this is all kinda off topic :)
 
TechLarry said:
No, it's not underpowered. But a 3 hour outage was too much for it. I was asleep so I had no idea until I woke up to all the damned clocks blinking 12:00.

But really, this is all kinda off topic :)
Click to expand...

Not really- you're trying to address your issue without fixing the problem, it's like saying "Hey, every time I drive down this road my tires go flat- so I think it's time for a new car"

If WHS works for you and what you want to do you just need to ensure that it stays running to avoid file system issues, any OS is susceptible to problems if you just pull the plug, your hardware could also suffer.

If power outages are common enough to cause you repeated issues you either need to get something capable of powering your server for longer, or devise a strategy where you limit those risks; shutting down at night or after your backups are done, seeing if you can tie your UPS in to it so it knows it's on battery and can turn off if needed, or getting a whole bunch of hamsters to run on wheels and generate electricity :p

Either way that's how you can solve this, not with a new OS.
 
Ok, let's scratch all that and start over :)

IF someone wanted to move away from WHS, what would be the most comparable product.

StarTrek4U said:
Not really- you're trying to address your issue without fixing the problem, it's like saying "Hey, every time I drive down this road my tires go flat- so I think it's time for a new car"

If WHS works for you and what you want to do you just need to ensure that it stays running to avoid file system issues, any OS is susceptible to problems if you just pull the plug, your hardware could also suffer.

If power outages are common enough to cause you repeated issues you either need to get something capable of powering your server for longer, or devise a strategy where you limit those risks; shutting down at night or after your backups are done, seeing if you can tie your UPS in to it so it knows it's on battery and can turn off if needed, or getting a whole bunch of hamsters to run on wheels and generate electricity :p

Either way that's how you can solve this, not with a new OS.
Click to expand...
 
Moving away from WHS won't solve the problem you're having. Buy a USB to Serial port adapter or a serial card configure your UPS properly.
 
Ok ;)

This isn't the only reason I'm asking. We really got off on the wrong track here.

Everyone please forget about the UPS :)

There are other reasons I am considering moving away from WHS. The latest event with DE is just one of them.

First, DE is dead. It's gone. We'll never see it again. Second, knowing Microsoft like I do, I'm convinced WHS V1 is now an orphaned product and we'll never see any meaningful updates for it other than security updates. For a while.

If Vail is going to ship without DEv2, then I may as well look at all available options.

And that's what I'm trying to do here :)
 
v1 is based on server 2003, Vail is based on 2008, what do you think the most comparable Microsoft product is going to be? You said no linux, that leaves you with Windows 2003, or 2008.

I'm sure WHS is going to continue to get updates until they drop support for Server 2003.
 
Security updates, yes. Fixes for DE or features, I really don't think so. In fact the latest feature pack broke some stuff in WHS v1 that I've read MS has no intentions on fixing. For one, the ability to set Remote Access to go directly to login instead of the welcome page. FP3 broke it, and it's not going to be fixed.

The whole thing add's up to MS losing interest in WHS in it's current form.

I have Server 2008R2 and it's on my list of considerations. I'm also looking at FreeNAS (yeah, it's linux based but not quite the same as a linux server).

There's also a Linux clone of WHS out there that I looked at, but I'm reading it's not ready for prime time, and they are about to do a shift from Debian to Ubuntu. I need stability.

Or I may just un-retire my QNAP NAS boxes and go back to them. It's just another one of the options.

Server 2008r2 would be perfect other than it lacks the backup system WHS does. That's the real sticking point, the backup system. There's really nothing quite like it anywhere else.

Right now I'm still leaning towards Vail, DE or no DE. I've got 6TB of storage so that's not an issue. I just wish it was a little further along. It's been set back due to the whole DE fiasco.
 
In my experience, FreeNAS was totally unstable and really a huge pain in the ass. If you're looking at going that route, I recommend looking at openfiler instead.

Or you can use Windows 2008R2 etc, with a third party backup solution, Cobian is free and works really well for some of my tiny clients, that would be good for at home.
 
Ok, that's great info, especially about FreeNAS. I'll take a look at openfiler.

Thanks :)

I haven't had the opportunity to install 2008r2 yet. It will allow a non-domain type of install, correct? I've got some machines here at home on the corporate domain and I don't need another one :)
 
Jezus. Openfiler is some serious shit there :) And expensive!
 
Ok, I think I've made my decision. I think I'll go with Server 2008r2 Standard. That will allow me more flexibility, let me get some time in on the current Windows Server, play around with Virtualization beyond XP Mode, etc...

For Backup I'll just start using Acronis TrueImage again. It's served me well in the past.

I also have access to Enterprise. Any particular reason I would want to choose that over standard?

One other question I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to. To Raid or not to Raid...

The machine has 6 1TB WD Green drives in it. The first would be set aside for the Server OS and tools. All are SATA of course, and are matching drives. I could leave the drives as simple volumes, or set up a software RAID-5. My fear is that a software raid-5 setup would perform pathetically. I also have raid on the MB (Intel BadAxe-2) but I've read the RAID on this board isn't very reliable.
 
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TechLarry said:
Jezus. Openfiler is some serious shit there :) And expensive!
Click to expand...

What crack are you smoking? Openfiler is free. You only have to pay for support if you want real live support instead of the forum based, or if you are building and reselling openfiler devices, or if you are dropping openfiler into an enterprise situation.

http://www.openfiler.com/community/download/

As far as Server 2008R2 goes. Standard vs Enterprise really doesn't get you much unless you are planning to run hyper-v VMs (you get 4 free server 2008R2 virtual licenses), do clustering, or run a Enterprise Exchange / Sharepoint / SQL server.

The RAID you should probably leave alone. Software RAID in linux I have had very good luck with and it preforms within about 5-10% of what hardware RAID does (read/write) so your not going to notice it much. I haven't tried it in windows recently, but I assume it has matured enough to be useful. You don't get the enhanced cache of a dedicated RAID controller nor do you get a battery backed up cache, so technically your arrays are more prone to failure in power outages. I wouldn't hard RAID those green drives as they aren't designed for it, and don't support TLER so they have issues with some RAID controllers (ie: good drives will fail out of the RAID because they don't spin up fast enough).
 
Good stuff.

On the openfiler, I was talking about the options of course :)

Good point on the RAID too.

Thanks :)


C7J0yc3 said:
What crack are you smoking? Openfiler is free. You only have to pay for support if you want real live support instead of the forum based, or if you are building and reselling openfiler devices, or if you are dropping openfiler into an enterprise situation.

http://www.openfiler.com/community/download/

As far as Server 2008R2 goes. Standard vs Enterprise really doesn't get you much unless you are planning to run hyper-v VMs (you get 4 free server 2008R2 virtual licenses), do clustering, or run a Enterprise Exchange / Sharepoint / SQL server.

The RAID you should probably leave alone. Software RAID in linux I have had very good luck with and it preforms within about 5-10% of what hardware RAID does (read/write) so your not going to notice it much. I haven't tried it in windows recently, but I assume it has matured enough to be useful. You don't get the enhanced cache of a dedicated RAID controller nor do you get a battery backed up cache, so technically your arrays are more prone to failure in power outages. I wouldn't hard RAID those green drives as they aren't designed for it, and don't support TLER so they have issues with some RAID controllers (ie: good drives will fail out of the RAID because they don't spin up fast enough).
Click to expand...
 
Ok, that is huge overkill for my little lab LOL, but I tell ya, it sounds so cool I'm going to look in to it :) I probably have access to that as well, assuming it's on TechNet.

ShadowStriker said:
TechLarry, what about MS DPM running on MS Server2008R2?
Click to expand...
 
It should be. It is probably overkill, but its an amazing tool. I've been trying to get it for my work, but I can't get it authorized. :( It lets you backup entire MS OS drives, and restore can be anything from the entire drive or a single file from the image.
 
C7J0yc3 said:
What crack are you smoking? Openfiler is free. You only have to pay for support if you want real live support instead of the forum based, or if you are building and reselling openfiler devices, or if you are dropping openfiler into an enterprise situation.

http://www.openfiler.com/community/download/

As far as Server 2008R2 goes. Standard vs Enterprise really doesn't get you much unless you are planning to run hyper-v VMs (you get 4 free server 2008R2 virtual licenses), do clustering, or run a Enterprise Exchange / Sharepoint / SQL server.

The RAID you should probably leave alone. Software RAID in linux I have had very good luck with and it preforms within about 5-10% of what hardware RAID does (read/write) so your not going to notice it much. I haven't tried it in windows recently, but I assume it has matured enough to be useful. You don't get the enhanced cache of a dedicated RAID controller nor do you get a battery backed up cache, so technically your arrays are more prone to failure in power outages. I wouldn't hard RAID those green drives as they aren't designed for it, and don't support TLER so they have issues with some RAID controllers (ie: good drives will fail out of the RAID because they don't spin up fast enough).
Click to expand...

Is this software designed to build a :"large" storage machine, and attach to the network for storage ?
 
Ok, from a software standpoint, I'm all set. I've got:

Server 2008r2. Check. Still trying to determine whether to go enterprise or standard. Let me ask this, is there any downside to going with enterprise?

System Center Essentials. Check.

DPM 2010. Check.

I am going to admit right now I've just jumped into a huge flaming pit of Lava with no asbestos suit or fire extinguisher :) I don't have a damned clue what I'm doing from this point on, but it should be fun to figure out!
 
Standard only supports Limited to 250 RRAS connections, 50 IAS connections and 2 IAS Server Groups and Limited to 250 Remote Desktop Services Gateway connections.
Svr2008R2 comparision table

No such thing as overkill! lol
 
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dashpuppy said:
Is this software designed to build a :"large" storage machine, and attach to the network for storage ?
Click to expand...

I have one at work running as a 16TB RAID 5 iSCSI target, another at home running 10TB of NFS/SMB storage.

To be honest these boxes actually run much better then our Windows file / print servers and integrate into AD, and do all the other things we want them to do. The only issues we have had is with some RAID cards not having drivers and having to hack drivers in.
 
C7J0yc3 said:
I have one at work running as a 16TB RAID 5 iSCSI target, another at home running 10TB of NFS/SMB storage.

To be honest these boxes actually run much better then our Windows file / print servers and integrate into AD, and do all the other things we want them to do. The only issues we have had is with some RAID cards not having drivers and having to hack drivers in.
Click to expand...

I think I shale try the software :)
 
I guess I may as well go ahead and install Enterprise. I just won't use everything, obviously :)

The only thing I've not been able to find out is if Active Directory is mandatory. I don't want Active Directory on my Network for a couple of reasons, not the least of which some of my Laptops are already on the office domain and can't be changed.

That leaves me with two things left:

Media Streamer. I'll need some sort of robust media streamer to run in service mode. Any suggestions?

Should I bother with AntiVirus? If so, are there any GOOD free versions that will run on Server 2008? Paid-for AV for servers is definitely out of my budget since I have to foot the bill for all this stuff on my own.
 
1. AD is not mandatory. You can choose to install the Domain Controller role if you need it.
2. Haven't tried a Media Streamer but I'd be interested in the suggestions too.
3. If nothing, install ClamWin and have it do weekly scans. Most of the obvious free ones don't work on MS Server OSes.
 
TechLarry said:
I guess I may as well go ahead and install Enterprise. I just won't use everything, obviously :)

The only thing I've not been able to find out is if Active Directory is mandatory. I don't want Active Directory on my Network for a couple of reasons, not the least of which some of my Laptops are already on the office domain and can't be changed.
Click to expand...

AD is not a requirement for server 2008, and even if you installed it you can use your non domain machines on the same network without issue. AD just provides a login, and central user management, but wouldn't negatively affect any PC not on the domain.

That leaves me with two things left:

Media Streamer. I'll need some sort of robust media streamer to run in service mode. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

What are you streaming to? If you are going to a PS3 or a Xbox 360 then using PS3 media streamer would be the best way to go. If it is just to desktops then just map the shares as drives and double click the files. XMBC, Tversity, and a few others can work in server 2008, but require some extra steps to get everything working as Server 2008 isn't meant to be a media server.

Should I bother with AntiVirus? If so, are there any GOOD free versions that will run on Server 2008? Paid-for AV for servers is definitely out of my budget since I have to foot the bill for all this stuff on my own.
Click to expand...

Absolutely you should have AV on your server. At minimum you should use ClamWin AV just to have something on there. Unfortunately Clam is the only free AV I know of that will run on a server OS, but there could be others. If you do end up having to buy AV, AVG File Server edition is not bad at only $100 (which is better then a lot of others).
 
If you're going to pay for an AV, I'd recommend Nod32 or Vipre. Vipre installs fine on 2k8 (was using it for ~3 months until my trial ran out), it stopped a bunch of threats on my main rig that MSE didn't catch, and a 1-year license is only ~$30. It's a newer piece of software, but from my experience it's the uTorrent of AVs: small, lightweight, and does just what you want it to, well. And Nod32 is a good old standby that's still (IME) going strong!
 
I have NOD32 on all of my client machines. Good stuff. I'll give ClamWin a try for starters.

I have a nice little QNAP TS-209 NAS with two 500GB drives in it I can always use as my streamer if I have to.

I know I'm probably a weenie, but ActiveDirectory makes me nervous. It's probably unfounded, but every time I get a ticket for a home worker that has knocked their machine off the corporate domain trying to install a home wireless printer or other such nonsense I cringe.

A kick in the nuts is less painful.

In reading the DPM installation materials on the Web, it would appear DPM requires it's installation be done while logged into a domain account with Admin privileges. I'm hoping that is making an assumption that all servers are on a domain, and only the Admin Privileges part is really important and it will still work from a local admin account.

We'll see :)

I also need to read up on Single-Instance Store. I know what it is and what it does, and DPM uses it. But my knowledge is limited to it's implementation under WHS.
 
Ok, this could be goofy, but what if I were to install Vail under a Hyper-V for the streaming capabilities :)
 
I remember DPM being able to be used without domain. I believe its -primarily- for domains because you won't have a hassle of entering every user profile for the computers you want to back up for admin rights.
 
TechLarry said:
Ok, this could be goofy, but what if I were to install Vail under a Hyper-V for the streaming capabilities :)
Click to expand...

That would work fine. But when you say streaming, are you streaming to media center extenders, PCs, PS3s, set top boxes? Depending on your situation, there may be a better way.
 
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