Oil and Gas Operations Could Trigger Large Earthquakes

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Shut the fuck up and stop using electricity, and plastic and polymers you uneducated hypocritical jackass.

You don't think I live right where this is going on? My kids? The rest of my family? I have 2 wells within 500 feet of my house.

It's arrogant ignorant fools like you that think they know half of what they do that are intolerable in this world.

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I always find it fascinating how different the conversations are here compared to actual science forums. Conversely, I also wonder if there are any geologists who browse this site, because I've yet to see one step up and actually contribute to an already derailed thread so that they might properly inform us laanlayman's on something extremely complex.
 
This is awesome. The Self described smart ones can't actually argue ANY fucking science so the try to go all Holy warrior..

You guys just enjoy your wind and solar at 17 times the cost.

BS. Solar and wind are getting cheaper by the day and will continue to improve as the technology improves. Oil and fossil fuels will NEVER improve because they're based on combustion. Only an idiot or individuals who don't want to see renewable energies succeed would deny that.
 
Wastewater wells dispose of the fracking fluid used to frack the rock to release the oil and gas. You can't have fracking operations without wastewater disposal which means underground injection wells. If you ban wastewater injection wells, then there is no fracking at least until they come up with a way to recycle the waste fluid. It's as simple as that.

And now for the proof that wastewater injection wells cause earthquakes.

http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Rubinstein_article_final.pdf
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/345/6195/448
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/345/6192/13.summary
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=4202#.VTxVkiFVhBc
http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-studies-link-earthquakes-with-oil-gas-drilling-1429650687
http://www.livescience.com/39406-fracking-wasterwater-injection-caused-ohio-earthquakes.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...fracking-to-dozens-of-small-ohio-earthquakes/
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ohio-earthquake-likely-caused-by-fracking/

I live 1 mile from the epicenter of the Youngstown 4.0 quake which was located within 500 yards of the wastewater injection well that Columbia University scientists determined was causing the quakes.That 4.0 quake is no joke. I can't imagine what a 5.0 or greater feels like.
 
Earthquakes are the earth compensating itself for rising sea levels. When the north & south poles melt then the sea bordering continents flood. Fracking aides in the earth like a protective safety feature that a volcano earthquake equivalent future rising sea levels.
 
I always find it fascinating how different the conversations are here compared to actual science forums. Conversely, I also wonder if there are any geologists who browse this site, because I've yet to see one step up and actually contribute to an already derailed thread so that they might properly inform us laanlayman's on something extremely complex.

I'm a geologist, I try to inform, people still don't accept the linked studies.
 
Wastewater wells dispose of the fracking fluid used to frack the rock to release the oil and gas. You can't have fracking operations without wastewater disposal which means underground injection wells. If you ban wastewater injection wells, then there is no fracking at least until they come up with a way to recycle the waste fluid. It's as simple as that.

You don't even know the technical terms.

Injection wells dispose of PRODUCED fluid. The typical frac job is around 300,000 to 1 million gallons of mostly fresh water. When producing a well, you will get around 50% of this back. The rest of the produced fluid is water associated with oil and gas production. This is anywhere between 500,000 to 2 million BARRELS of produced water over the life of the well.

Disposal wells far predate fracs, and even if we stopped every frac from now on - the wells are still producing water.

So, if your preliminary answer was wastewater is bad, so injections wells are bad, so we should stop creating wastewater - the only logical thing to do - from your point of view - is immediately cease ALL oil and gas production in the United States.
 
Hey lets all relax a little.
As long as we don't get to the point where we are mining the core of the Earth (Like Krypton) then we should be fine.
 
" Hydraulic fracturing, commonly known as “fracking,” does not appear to be linked to the increased rate of magnitude 3 and larger earthquakes. " [USGS]

It's the waste water they dispose of in deep wells afterwards that is the suspected cause. Seems like a pretty simple fix to me.

What is Wastewater Disposal?

Water that is salty or polluted by chemicals needs to be disposed of in a manner that prevents it from contaminating freshwater sources. Often, it is most economical to geologically sequester such wastewater by injecting it underground, deep below any aquifers that provide drinking water.

Also, if anyone thinks that fracking does anything to drinking water, they have no idea what fracking is. It happens MILES underneath the water table.

hydraulic_fract_illustration_121609.jpg
 
Also, if anyone thinks that fracking does anything to drinking water, they have no idea what fracking is. It happens MILES underneath the water table.

It still doesn't change the fact that the process led to contamination.

Improperly built and sealed wells were the cause of the contamination done to the aquifers. If fracking wasn't attempted, the contamination wouldn't have happened.

So even if they were doing it wrong, the fracking still led to contamination.

http://rt.com/usa/194620-california-aquifers-fracking-contamination/

There were also fracking sites in California where the wastewater was dumped into the aquifiers. Again, not directly due to fracking, but the result of the process.
 
Glad to know that techrat is calling for the cessation of all oil and gas exploration and production.. We expect you to be the first to shut off your electricity and turn in your now useless vehicle.

BTW I make this. The solution to any contamination is this.
http://www.google.com/patents/US5531823

Now about the contamination from water wells that cross aquifers and natural methane......

One more time for the slower members of the group.. Frack waste water is less than a rounding error in the total waste water disposal. Injection wells are just one way to dispose of it. There are open evap pits as well as treatment sites. I know I am a part owner in one.

There are other technologies coming online too. I am part f a group that is taking the waste water and treating it so that we can turn it into a suitable fracking fluid with the proper viscosity agents and gels.

The problem is the uninformed running around assuming the O&G industry really could act like like the media and hollywood crowd portrays us. It's simple a total falsehood.

We live in these same areas with our families.
 
It still doesn't change the fact that the process led to contamination.

Improperly built and sealed wells were the cause of the contamination done to the aquifers. If fracking wasn't attempted, the contamination wouldn't have happened.

So even if they were doing it wrong, the fracking still led to contamination.

http://rt.com/usa/194620-california-aquifers-fracking-contamination/

There were also fracking sites in California where the wastewater was dumped into the aquifiers. Again, not directly due to fracking, but the result of the process.


Accidents do happen in the form of casing leaks. Casing leaks can happen on wells that are not fracked. Fracking is not a pre-requisite for failure. I suppose your answer would be, then, to stop all drilling and also, again, plug all wells currently in existence to prevent any potential casing leak.

If that is the line of logic, we need to ban all doctors because 250,000 a year die from malpractice/misdiagnosis in the US. We also need to shut down all nuclear plants because those can have issues too.

The California example you are citing had approved permits from the State allowing the injection into those formations. The State was aware of it and had no issues until now. Oops?
 
Accidents do happen in the form of casing leaks. Casing leaks can happen on wells that are not fracked. Fracking is not a pre-requisite for failure. I suppose your answer would be, then, to stop all drilling and also, again, plug all wells currently in existence to prevent any potential casing leak.

My argument is that yes, we should stop drilling and switch to something that won't poison the water supply in the event of an accident or mistake.

The cost of contaminated water is insurmountable compared to alternatives such as wind, solar and alternative, waste as fuel nuclear designs like molten salt reactors or even thorium reactors. The problem with the latter is public safety concerns and the former... cost. Cost will only go down if production of the materials needed to create solar panels and wind turbines increase.

Germany and Costa Rica have already successfully transitioned to a partial or full period of renewable only energy consumption. There's no reason we can't do the same without doing anything that has a chance of fucking up our much more scarce resource: water.
 
My argument is that yes, we should stop drilling and switch to something that won't poison the water supply in the event of an accident or mistake.

The cost of contaminated water is insurmountable compared to alternatives such as wind, solar and alternative, waste as fuel nuclear designs like molten salt reactors or even thorium reactors. The problem with the latter is public safety concerns and the former... cost. Cost will only go down if production of the materials needed to create solar panels and wind turbines increase.

Germany and Costa Rica have already successfully transitioned to a partial or full period of renewable only energy consumption. There's no reason we can't do the same without doing anything that has a chance of fucking up our much more scarce resource: water.

Just because we outsource our pollution to China, doesn't mean the industrial waste generated by cheap batteries and solar panels does not exist.

Water is not a scarce resource. Cheap water is. It's the same paradigm for oil. Do you know how much water there would be if produced water from oil wells was simply purified for irrigation and municipal use? Plenty. Water problems OVER. But, the average citizen can't even understand that purified sewage water is perfectly safe.

Your argument to stop drilling doesn't solve the problem in your mind. Nothing less than the complete cessation of all oil and gas production in the United States -- plugging ALL current wells -- will alleviate your concerns.

Are you ready for that if it happened tomorrow? I'm positive you don't even know what the repercussions would be.
 
Your argument to stop drilling doesn't solve the problem in your mind. Nothing less than the complete cessation of all oil and gas production in the United States -- plugging ALL current wells -- will alleviate your concerns.

Are you ready for that if it happened tomorrow? I'm positive you don't even know what the repercussions would be.

But at some point this is going to happen, the wells are going to run dry. And it might take centuries for that to happen but I doubt it will be a good thing if we use ever riskier processes to extract every last drop until there's none left.
 
My argument is that yes, we should stop drilling and switch to something that won't poison the water supply in the event of an accident or mistake.

Weapons grade stupid.
 
Shut the fuck up and stop using electricity, and plastic and polymers you uneducated hypocritical jackass.

You don't think I live right where this is going on? My kids? The rest of my family? I have 2 wells within 500 feet of my house.

It's arrogant ignorant fools like you that think they know half of what they do that are intolerable in this world.

Over 100,000 people a year die from lack of heat. Many of those are elderly who try to stretch their budgets by turning down the heat and stress their health from the increased cold.

If you live in fear of an unproven threat and are willing to be made a slave to it, then move. I won't be made a slave along with you because of your fears.
 
Weapons grade stupid.

You've really wowed me over with your insightful commentary and examples that could cause one to reconsider their point of view. Your detailed reply surely should be enshrined as an example of tactful decorum on a forum that is dedicated to enlightening others and promoting thoughtful discussions.
 
Accidents do happen in the form of casing leaks. Casing leaks can happen on wells that are not fracked. Fracking is not a pre-requisite for failure.
Well in THEORY, absolutely, in PRACTICE, it's been fucking up groundwater pretty good. A lot of corners are still being cut in the industry as far as environmental safety since it keeps costs lower. It's the same mentality that led to the BP spill. This is why I'm always amazed when I hear political conversations about eliminating the EPA and... that's it. No alternate agency put in place or anything.
 
You've really wowed me over with your insightful commentary and examples that could cause one to reconsider their point of view. Your detailed reply surely should be enshrined as an example of tactful decorum on a forum that is dedicated to enlightening others and promoting thoughtful discussions.

You willful stupidity or your complete lack of any actual knowledge of the situation precludes me from being able to get you to reconsider anything.

Now reverse it, you have contributed absolutely zero knowledge or even a rational cognitive response tot eh situation. If anyone needs to improve their presentation it's you.
 
Well in THEORY, absolutely, in PRACTICE, it's been fucking up groundwater pretty good. A lot of corners are still being cut in the industry as far as environmental safety since it keeps costs lower. It's the same mentality that led to the BP spill. This is why I'm always amazed when I hear political conversations about eliminating the EPA and... that's it. No alternate agency put in place or anything.

Utterly false. You have zero facts that lots of corners have been cut. Do you actually think any production company wants leaks? From a purely self interest standpoint it is expensive to fix and hurts the production of the wells and leads to potential liability issues. No company wants a well to leak.
 
Utterly false. You have zero facts that lots of corners have been cut. Do you actually think any production company wants leaks? From a purely self interest standpoint it is expensive to fix and hurts the production of the wells and leads to potential liability issues. No company wants a well to leak.

Of course no one wants bad things to happen. The question is just how committed these companies are to dealing with these kinds of issues. One area where they seem to be woeful at is cleanup. Not saying it's easy but have there been any significant advancements in oil cleanup processes and technology?
 
Utterly false. You have zero facts that lots of corners have been cut. Do you actually think any production company wants leaks? From a purely self interest standpoint it is expensive to fix and hurts the production of the wells and leads to potential liability issues. No company wants a well to leak.

Actually its true, I have a freind who works in the fracking industry (PhD in Metallurgy) and while his job doesn't deal directly with the concrete used in the lining of the wells he works daily with the others that do.

Anyways, to make a long story short, the concrete develops minuscule cracks, gas inflitrates the groundwater. End of store, its true.

Do I care? Nope, my gas is cheap.

Also, they are working very hard and spend millions trying to develop concrete formulas that can prevent this, they just haven't found the solution yet.
 
Utterly false. You have zero facts that lots of corners have been cut. Do you actually think any production company wants leaks? From a purely self interest standpoint it is expensive to fix and hurts the production of the wells and leads to potential liability issues. No company wants a well to leak.

Correction, you are correct. They don't cut corners, its just that the right formulations/techniques/whatever has not been developed yet.
 
Also, they are working very hard and spend millions trying to develop concrete formulas that can prevent this, they just haven't found the solution yet.

I make the material that allows the cement to be completely no go to water or gas migration. Add 600 mesh silica flour to concrete and the psi goes to 11,000, permeability of zero and it resists thermal breakdown to 1200F.
 
Who cares if drilling makes a few earthquakes? It's all being done in places where hardly anything important happens so whatever if someone has a vase fall over. :rolleyes:
 
You willful stupidity or your complete lack of any actual knowledge of the situation precludes me from being able to get you to reconsider anything.

Now reverse it, you have contributed absolutely zero knowledge or even a rational cognitive response tot eh situation. If anyone needs to improve their presentation it's you.

That's a lot of words to say absolutely nothing of value.
 
Well, by all means, please enlighten the rest of us with your staggering intellect.

I've offered my thoughts, given several links as sources and attempted to explain my point of view.

You've done nothing but respond while screaming out of your ass with insults. Pardon me if I find your lack of decorum to be rather telling of how much of a waste of time you are.
 
I've offered my thoughts, given several links as sources and attempted to explain my point of view.

You've done nothing but respond while screaming out of your ass with insults. Pardon me if I find your lack of decorum to be rather telling of how much of a waste of time you are.

Every one of your points has been refuted by either me or another poster. You have had no response to the fact you have no answer for how modern society would in fact power it's daily life.

Complaining about decorum is the last vestige of arguing a point on nothing but sheer faith.

You want green renewable clean reliable dense energy. It does not exist. You have no answer tot he problem so you simply wish it away. You haven't put the slightest amount of critical thinking into the problem.

I stand by my statement, Weapons Grade stupid.
 
You've really wowed me over with your insightful commentary and examples that could cause one to reconsider their point of view. Your detailed reply surely should be enshrined as an example of tactful decorum on a forum that is dedicated to enlightening others and promoting thoughtful discussions.

runffs and I haven't really agreed on shit...but I agree with him on this. Stopping fracking operations would cause orders of magnitude more economic damage than any of its effects on the environment from a drilling related accident. Accidents happen in any industry dude. As much I would prefer cleaner energy sources, most of them are NOT ready for prime time and will likely be decades before any real penetration can occur due to immature technologies that are quite frankly too expensive and unreliable right now.
 
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